To Twitch or Not to Twitch

[Death's Servent]

I was in a LDoN last night with a cleric that keep hollering mana dump when we got an wandering add. Every caster in the group was either OoM or LoM. I didn't have enough mana even do a twitch so I nuked off the first mob then STed the add so the wizard could evac. After we got organized again after the evac, they started jumping my case about not mana dumping. I eventually got tired of thier crap and left the grp. A few mins after I left, I get cussed out and told that a necro is only suppose to DoT/mana dump.


What do you think about this matter? Please note that I am pretty peeved atm and trying to keep calm while writing this.

[Darkowen]

Mean evil necro----Go pull a few friends and FD them in there laps :ph34r:

Or if you have the patience to sit around and explain to every class in the group how to play there class so that they are not OOM after every bad pull........NAHHHH!


Just Train um and gate after watching them all die :P

[Skulmar]

Well, you left the group, good for you! I would of done the same thing given that situation. I would first tell them to learn how other classes play as well as their own, then gate, then put them all on ignore. Ignorance is one thing I can not tolerate in game.

[Jebasiz]

I've been a long time supporter of the argument that we're not there to make up for other people being stupid f*cks that can't manage their mana. There is NO reason for every caster to oom in an ldon...helll I've gone into ldon with 3 boxers who ld'd and won solo without even being close to OOM. They're lucky I wasn't in that group instead of you....they'd be dead and a group of 5 quicker then a heartbeat.

[Shadowthorne Darkbane]

You did the right thing You're the Necro Not them.

Did you tell the warrior how to Tank? the wizard how to Nuke?

the Ranger how to shoot a bow? HELL NO

We know our jobs they are just useless.

Thank god I got a Good One myself last night. Get a Tell Want a Bb Ldon? I say what classes you got so far? Oh we're full we just need DPS. Well Hell yes someone with a brain.

I was CC, Top Up Healing, Killing, Doting, And even cured diseases the Cleric could'nt cure. Yes I Am A God :P

Shadowthorne Darkbane
57 Human Defiler of Innoruuk
Sacred Honor
Sol Ro

[Jebasiz]

Yes I Am A God

NO, your a filthy twink! /giggle

[Skulmar]

Hell ya Shadow is a filthy twink. You should see the new horse he just twinked himself with!

[Kompressor]

lol.. even if u did twitch,downtime for everyone woulda still sucked.. sheesh, some peeps dont realize how lucky they are now with kei/other buff spells that increase mana regen and/or mounts.. in mah dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy, we had to sit and wait:(

[Rikam]

I barely if ever will pump personaly I rather mind wrack. Much better manna to manna ratio just have to wait for casters. If a grp can't maintain manna between casters then probably don't want to be with them anyways. Have had a 45 cle hydra I would heal a full grp in ssra and not go oom. So I don't understand how they can being 20 lvls higher and much better spells.

[Aryse Andenter]

I almost never twitch. The only exceptions to this are after the cleric is rezzed in or has rezzed the group, or maybe has fully buffed the whole gorup and we are antsy to get moving. If there have been a lot of adds, my mana was used up killing those other three while the rest of the group worried about one, natch, and I have none to donate.

I absolutely think that clerics shouldn't be twitched if they are just doing a poor job, or if they are attempting something they are just not geared for. If they are twitched they will never learn to manage their mana properly, or have the motivation to go out and farm better gear for a larger mana pool.

If I am twitching I am not doing as good a job as I could be... and there's no reason for a group to have two members doing poor jobs, they'll be in enough trouble with that cleric.

If I'm in a group with a whiny cleric and ignoring him doesn't work, I'll start using shadowbond and Zevfeer's, and of course mind wrack to help out. But I just don't twitch.

However, the only thing to note in all of this is that is you leave a group, especially a LDoN group, you will always be resented, even if your point of view is right. If there's any way you can grin and bear it and then just note the names as people you won't be grouping with again it might save you some of the headaches that come from nasty tells from leaving a group. Still, everyone ends up in a group they just can't work with sooner or later.

[Death's Servent]

We were losing the LDoN anyway when I left. We had something like 15 to collect in 12 mins and with the downtime they were doing, it was hopeless. The group was made up of a 52 cleric, 50 warr, myself, and 55 wizard.

Not too long after my run in with them, a member of the current guild I am in had a run in with them. He plays a beastlord and completed an LDoN that would have taken them 90 mins to complete in 30-40 mins. They keep bitching about the way he would take on 2-3 mobs at a time. I think the entire guild is out for thier blood now.

[Insidiousdesign]

Well I personally only twitch to expediate downtime, or with the odd pull gone bad to give the cleric, who had already announced he had mana for only one cheal before fight, a little cushion.
In an ldon setting with no crowd control, I frequently find myself aggro kiting any adds to minimize clerical mana, although this process would be a lot easier if the bloody pathing in some of the dungeons wasnt so atrocious.

Furthermore, as someone who has a 54 paly alt, who has leveled almos exclusively in MM LDoN, I have to let you know that the first thing you should do before accepting an LDoN group, is to find out what the party composure is....Bottom line, warriors are not very good pullers in this type of setting, they are OK with a warrior-chanter/cleric tandem combining to lull pull, but not optimal in my opinion. Most wandering adds can be eliminated by knowing the dungeon in question, and having the puller/leader position the party accordingly. A good puller makes the difference in any setting, particularly an LDoN, when an easy single pull can turn into three adds...

Sid.

[Vanadinaa]

Well I woulda left the ignorant group too if they were gonna complain that im not doin my job when i just saved they're A$$. They obviously dont understand the necro class. and it was thinking like this that used to make it hard for a necro to get a group. nowa days most people realize necros are a great asset to a group i mean we can do a very wide range of things. But as far as Twitching i do twitch. But when im in a group atleast 75% of the time im pretty near FM an i hate downtime i mind wrack of course but i have a the cleric tell me if its gettin down on mana an if i have it i give it just to keep things moving faster cause if there is anything i hate its a slow group. I will also twitch a pulling pal when they need it dunno thats just how i play an my oppinion twitch is a tool we can use but it is definately not all were about like some stubborn people seem to think. but just because people think that way doesnt mean we should never twitch like i said its a tool an in a group sometimes it does benefit us to use it. :)

[Fizzleplink]

I think I met that same group the other night, Tark. :(

I've always viewed that line of spells as a down time reducer, and an aid to clerics in a CH chain.

As a down time reducer, I kinda go by these guidelines:

- First and foremost... AM I BORED YET?

- Chain pulling paladin? He gets my mana if I have some to spare. As I usually do, and as I appreciate him working his stubby little dorf legs off to feed me a steady stream of fresh critters to consume, I will share the bounty.

- Enchanter doing lots of crowd control in addition to tash and slow? Sure.

- Tank wearing tissue paper armor? (1) Cleric gets an occasional twitch (2) Said tank gets steered towards mache classes. If he's gonna wear Kleenex, he might as well wear a lot of it.

- Cleric working his ass off to make the most of a bunch of retards? Sure, if ShadowBond and my leech taps don't use it up.

Do you get my mana if you're a cleric needlessly using the least efficient heals possible? Yes. ONCE. You also get asked whether you have such handy little spells as Complete Heal, and a suggestion you should be healing with something a little more appropriate than Celestial Healing by now. (NOTE: I mean c'mon... at 56, there's just not as much a cleric can screw up on with spell selection as they can at 65)

What if you're a nuking cleric? Nope. Wizard? Nope. Druid? Nope.

Gods forbid you're a shaman and you ask me for mana. See that monk there? She'll get my mana before you do.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Fizzleplink@Apr 16 2004, 05:46 PM
Gods forbid you're a shaman and you ask me for mana. See that monk there? She'll get my mana before you do.
Amen to that

[nethyia]

Originally posted by Fizzleplink@Apr 16 2004, 09:46 PM
What if you're a nuking cleric? Nope.
Bah, if the cleric is bored, they should be meleeing anyway.

Gods forbid you're a shaman and you ask me for mana. See that monk there? She'll get my mana before you do.

Btw: This will SERIOUSLY piss off the person asking for a twitch, as well. Trust me. (Although I think I actually twitched a rogue.)

[Shadowthorne Darkbane]

Btw: This will SERIOUSLY piss off the person asking for a twitch, as well. Trust me. (Although I think I actually twitched a rogue.)

Big Deal It's my Mana it goes where i want it to. They can whine and cry and bitch.
Me? i Ignore em they all get stupid i quit or Fd and watch em Die LMAo :lol:







Shadowthorne Darkbane
57 Human Defiler of Innoruuk
Sacred Honor
Sol Ro

[Fizzleplink]

:(

I had a 60 shaman ask me for a twitch today. I asked him why he wasn't cannibalizing, and he told me that it was slower than medding, and I shouldn't give advice when I don't know what I'm talking about, and that my suggestion was unwarranted.

At least, I *assume* that's what he said. It came out kinda "stfu canni sux u a necro what u no"

Well, not being one for empty promises... I twitched our monk.

[nethyia]

Shadowthorne: It wasn't ment as a warning, kind of a given that they would be pissed off. I do it TO piss them off ;) Then they won't group with me anymore, though. :( Oh wait, that's not a bad thing, is it? B)

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Fizzleplink@Apr 25 2004, 01:24 PM
well, not being one for empty promises... I twitched our monk.
LoL, You ROCK bro, that's the funniest thing i've heard all day!

[ssyruk]

When I started playing my necro, the only thing I heard from the guys at work who played was "mana battery". So, I "grew up" thinking this was my lot in life, and as a consequence, I twitched...A LOT.

After a while, I sat back and really looked at things "outside of the box". Why the hell am I twitching people who can't manage their mana pools effectiviely? I didnt have the same problems as they did as far as mana so why should I pay for their stupidity.

I don't twitch anymore, unless I deem it necessary to do so. I'm not anyone's mana bitz and won't be told who and when to twitch. I'm usually up front with this in any new group I'm in. If they don't like it, I take my services elsewhere. Those that have grouped with me understand the contributions I can make to the group and I usually get repeat invites.

Just my 2cp. I'll jump down off my soapbox now :P .

BTW...twitching the monk?? That made my day. Thanx Fiz :D !

[Hawkoftheknight]

Twitching the monk that was great. :D

The only time i realy twitch in a group is (like stated many times above) is when there was a bad pull or an over worked chanter. But most of the time i dont even have that spell memed. exp when im PLing a friends Alt :P

Hawk

[aurelias]

Twitching........That nasty little word that seems to illicite so many tells for LDoN adventures. Wonder why I hate LDoN from my other flame postings? This is a prime reason why. Most of the time I don't twitch. Start giving the redcross bozo mana and the tanks start getting a little more uppity and reckless. If the cleric thinks you aint gonna give him mana when he WANTS it he starts to conserve it a little better, cause after all do you wanna be the medic OOM when the tank takes knee deep up his arse and no more meat shield means you die. If your a twitcher believe it or not(some of you alluded to this in earlier posts) you can control the pace of the adventure.

I simply FD and just watched the group wipe. After a few runs with some people now in my fifties ,yes I want the summoner's boon auggie from NRO. I now have a solid group of players that run with me and they are finally getting a clue about how to consistently finish adventures. It took a few wipes to get em to understand that you don't win your points by being the fasted you win by being REPEATABLY SUCCESSFULL in your missions.

A few preconditions I set for twitching with my boys are as follows:

1. Even after the room gets lulled we still get a mountain of adds. It happens sometimes, situation unavoidable and regaining crowd control quickly may not be an option depending on your group composition. Cleric is gonna earn his ale tonight on it. Give him a break.

2. I still get people at these levels who don't have a clue how to play their damn class or dDont know about ST - Mezz etc..... Idiots break mezz and set the mobs loose, Hotshot caster who thinks he is shiz for being able to out aggro the tank(s), or run into other rooms to shake off mob (nightmare) and getting mob's buddy in on our potential prison rape scene.

3. Pallys will prolly get my mana more than any other class. They make great pullers in LDoN I have noticed but damn what shizzy mana pool they get. Thankfully its easier to fill em up than some cleric.

And now for the screwup.. Cherries... and the occasional moron whom you are fated to meet down in those dungeons.

If its my first run with em, I try to be forgiving and am kind enough to fill em on some of the basics of krawling in LDoN. Many reasons why you still find characters at these levels still being newbs or just ignorant. Sometimes taking a few minutes to talk it over on a bio break or occasional med will help all of us out. But, if they pull that shiz again and I happen to be leader I disband em. I have had up to 3 people leave group or get disbanded simply cause I disbanded peeps for being boneheaded. I heard it all before "He was the 6th man" "But that was our Chanter" yadda yadda... ad nauseum... STFU your disbanded to. Last couple of weeks I have been finding time to do about 4 adventures a week. I didnt start doing LDoN that way but the people there just have a way of pushing all the right buttons.

OK I had my rant. I will STFU now. :P

Aurelias Slayneheart 58th level Erudite necromancer

[Gimpzilla]

The ones I twitch the most are the ones who have never even asked for it. It sure does make them appreciate you being there.

[Persephonae]

I'll mind wrack anything that has mana in an XP group, but I try my damndest to not twitch...

And actually, I find that a little education of the people I group with minimizes the requests...

Just something along the lines of "you know, I hope SoE gives necros an upgrade to twitch in the next expansion... 400 of my mana to give someone 150 mana just doesn't go as far these days..." tends to elicit responses along the lines of "ewww... really? that doesn't seem all that worthwhile..."


...and people stop asking....

Tho nothing beats playing with solid, decently equipped players that know how to play their class... those people rarely ask for a twitch at all.

[Jebasiz]

I find that doing ldon's solely within my guild makes "twitch" tells non-existant. Sometimes I'll get a buddy I know in a different guild...but they know me already and don't bother asking. Mindwracks are enough...or they better start making it enough. I'd rather cast nightstalker and heal my group then twitch...and that's 950m per cast, but atleast I feel like I've done something. IF a cleric in an ldon with me dies...I'll solo until he has mana enough to heal the tank, it's pretty much a "no twitch" thing for me in ldon, and there aren't many exceptions at all.