Necrotic Techniques for the masses

[Neante]

Fist off... Let me start by saying Necromancers are great groupers... And great solo type peeps too.

There is a common misconception that Necros are useless in a goup. To some degree this is correct as alot of necros don't tap thier full potential in a grouping situation. With the leech series of spells, it allows the necro a steady stream of incoming health that is very mana efficient. Once full health is obtained you can use the health transfer series of spell to keep your members topped off at full health between battles. That way the cleric or primary healer in a group can save his mana for the big heals during battle. This will keep your party going longer with lower downtimes. Think of it as a health battery, we recharge, then send it out.

With the terror spell, we can work croud controll as well. I don't see enough necros using this spell. nothing makes a group happier to see adds on someone's pull reduced with a few well placed terror targets. This spell is great for grouping... and solo.

We also have the ability to transfer mana... Some groups specially higher level groups will try and use you as a mana battery, but I refuse to be reduced to that. I do use it between fights as full mana... Is wasted mana. this theory applies to the health battery situation too. If your healer is constantly being drained on mana... and you are full or high... give him a twitch or two. Just to keep the group moving forward. and to reduce the downtime.

With these strategies above you can help a group keep the gears moving and the action non-stop. Nothing pisses off the mele classes more than having to sit and med all the time... and using our dark powers in a helpful way can change the attitude most folks have twords necros.

Enjoy!

[Vavra]

leeching doesnt work well in an LDoN group at least in the lower lvls don't know about the higher lvls, cause we tear through the mobs way to fast for it to be effective,

[Vhampyre01]

Originally posted by Vavra@Dec 8 2003, 07:39 PM
leeching doesnt work well in an LDoN group at least in the lower lvls don't know about the higher lvls, cause we tear through the mobs way to fast for it to be effective,
It works just fine, it just might not be the most efficient choice from a dmg/mana ratio. However, if you are hurting the mob at all, healing yourself, allowing you to drop a heal on another party member, allowing the main healer to focus his mana where it is most needed, then it IS indeed very efficient.

I find less and less these days people who actually believe that necros are not good for groups. I think that old mindset is fading into obscurity, finally. Maybe LDoN is to be thanked, because our superior mana regen really makes a necro the ideal caster for this expansion...not to mention Mind Wrack, ZToV, Undead Mez, Undead Slow, Horror, Neuro, Stat taps and , a pet that can off-tank in a pinch; the ability to serve as puller, CC, slower, healer, DPS...it's amazing that necros ever get a chance to solo! heh

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Vhampyre01@Dec 8 2003, 08:03 PM
Maybe LDoN is to be thanked, because our superior mana regen really makes a necro the ideal caster for this expansion...not to mention Mind Wrack, ZToV, Undead Mez, Undead Slow, Horror, Neuro, Stat taps and , a pet that can off-tank in a pinch; the ability to serve as puller, CC, slower, healer, DPS...it's amazing that necros ever get a chance to solo! heh
/agree

It still boggles me though that at 55 people still don't know what a necro is capable of. People asking what's twitch, people thinking our group taps are dot traps, people healing us and asking me if i'm dotted while i'm leaching. People getting freaked when we ignite/chill bones, people snaring overwriting our snare dots... not enough people have been enlightened!!!

[Vhampyre01]

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Dec 8 2003, 10:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Dec 8 2003, 10:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Vhampyre01@Dec 8 2003, 08:03 PM
Maybe LDoN is to be thanked, because our superior mana regen really makes a necro the ideal caster for this expansion...not to mention Mind Wrack, ZToV, Undead Mez, Undead Slow, Horror, Neuro, Stat taps and , a pet that can off-tank in a pinch; the ability to serve as puller, CC, slower, healer, DPS...it's amazing that necros ever get a chance to solo! heh
/agree

It still boggles me though that at 55 people still don't know what a necro is capable of. People asking what's twitch, people thinking our group taps are dot traps, people healing us and asking me if i'm dotted while i'm leaching. People getting freaked when we ignite/chill bones, people snaring overwriting our snare dots... not enough people have been enlightened!!! [/b][/quote]
Just do YOUR part. I try to never leave a group doubting what a necromancer is capable of. Now I'm not a BIG pickup group kindof guy, but I have a core group of friends and usually a couple of strangers that I end up grouping with every night (give or take, depending on my mood).

I think so many are uneducated about necros because we just tend to solo our way to 65, which is great that we have that option, but it is unfortunate that so many necros miss out on the lower lvls' grouping experience, when necros are in the peak of their diversity of utilities. This leaves many of the other classes in the dark as to what we are capable of when we DO decide to start grouping, thinking that we need their heals, or that we're just mana batteries, or that just because our primary dmg comes from dots that we aren't capable of major DPS - all common misconceptions that it is OUR job to overcome and educate against.

[Neante]

I am currently playing my second Necro... And instead of trying to go the whole game solo, I experimented with the whole group thing. People recognize right away when you contribute to a group. The other night I had a ranger tell me that they had no ideah how much a necro could bring to a group and further said in front of the whole group that I had been the best necro he had ever grouped with. I was doing the pulling... Mezzing adds.... Ghetto healing during battles... And still doing decent damage to boot. Make some shortcut keys that let people know what you bring to the group. I.E. "Neante give %T some of his life" or "Neante gives %T a mana boost". Every group I am in I have at least one person ask "what is the blinking heart thing on me" I would expect that alot of players really have no ideah what it is we do.

Damn I love being Necro!


Neante..

Gnomish Soul Drinker extroidinaire!

[Mixylplix]

People getting freaked when we ignite/chill bones :lol:

Hell yeah, ain't it a hoot. I got tanks wandering around wondering where the mob is as all of a sudden it looks like my pet. Just show patience and train them. Most of them can be taught. (Except Monks. Monks can't be taught anything LOL).


AS for the note about the Battle Spam mesages, you are probably right. I am just so lazy about the whole thing. I guess I really should make smarter hotkeys.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Mixylplix@Dec 9 2003, 05:23 PM
People getting freaked when we ignite/chill bones :lol:

I got tanks wandering around wondering where the mob is as all of a sudden it looks like my pet.
That's Why I always always shrink my pet so I can tell the difference easily,

[NeSikWay]

I've spent most of my lvling in groups, I get bored soloing. I've spent alot of time in LDON where serveral have learned what a necro can do, mez, heal and off tank. There were a pair of us necros who were the primary healers of a group, had a shammy do big heals, we kept the heal the rest of the time, shammy got bored hehehe. I don't make my primary work in a group twitching, though I will do it at full mana til I'm about the same mana with them then we med together

[Mixylplix]

As for Twitching...

We did the Hedge Quest with only one chanter. I had to twitch him in the later pop's as they get 7 at one time and it gets ugly if not. But when we got to the boss mob I foudn myself tapping life dotting and healign a BUNCH. I mean when I am overliffed it is a freakign waste to NOT heal people. Especilly as our Lifetaps hit more than any other spell. If you are getting resisted a lot then heal and tap heal and tap. (sounds like a dance). :rolleyes:

[Uumuuanu]

Can anyone tell me what a necro cant do?(other than buffs which is bs).

We can heal.
We can kill.
We can rezz (not cost effective but in emergency or soloing)
We can fear
We can mezz
We can melee (gods forbid)
We can twitch (if only we could give manaskin to others)
We can tank (yes I have pulled and killed adds while the rest of the group was busy life tapping him to death)
We have pets that rip butt.
We can cure diseases (some, not all)
We can slow, snare and debuff

Hmm did I miss anything that others seem to do?

Well I dont understand how a group could not know you were there.

For example I have taken a group of lvls 48-55 warriors/sk/rangers out with me and been the cleric. Not bad to keep a group alive through 3 hours of fighting with little to no downtime and no cleric.

Actually alot of the people I play with know I can do that and dont worry when we are out in smaller groups.

Oh yeah, and we can stay alive long after others are dead, lifetaps rock. Yesterday, PoD raid on Grummus, I was the last one standing in my group (probably one of the last ones in the raid since we got whiped).

Hmm necros, gods of Norrath.

[sintalon]

There is very little we cant do but point and fact its a jack of all trades mastr of none. Now the latter part of that isnt entirely true since we are masters at certain aspects of your list but we can do any of them ok in a pinch but when push comes to shove the other classes of course do them better whilst we just dabble in their art. One of the greatest features i like about the necro is their versatility in just about any situation.

If your doing your job right there will be no mistaking the mark you have made upon them.

As a side note on the mana battery thing i have always been curious why so many necros seem to dislike this. My wife is a 63 druid atm and with c3 and mask of the hunter on she regens mana ok but i sit there and watch my mana vs hers and well of course she just gets smoked. As one poster said i toss in MW if applicable but i actually keep them up and loaded and tap a double twitch on her either during or between fights no matter to keep her steady. oh sure i lose a little mana in the exchange but its not like i dont have it back quickly.

If you look at the class as a whole my question to you all really is what is it we are the Masters of?

Its not healing - (cleric)
Its not mezzing - (chanter)
Its not Fearing - (its been so long since i could fear a mob i might even delete the spells - also clerics sk's etc get the same fear we do)
Its not of Undead - (pallys and clerics pretty much take the cake on that one)
Its obviously not buffing
Its not our pet sheer versatility puts the mage ahead as well as HP and DPS

Being ever the devils advocate i just am curious what it is that we do so well that no other class can even come close. I know my answer to it just curious what yall thing. :)

[illitcro]

We can pump out some massive damage.

With lich, we never run low.

If you want, you can stack 5 (possibly more) DoTs on ONE mob.
__our DoTs are:
___Magic resist DoTs
____Debuff DoTs
_____Disease DoTs
______Fire DoTs
_______Poison DoTs
________Leach DoTs

That's SIX different types of DoTs. No matter what the resists are, we can land spells. Our lifetaps usually come with a -200mr modifer on them, so they are hard to resist. Have a wizzy (or even a Mage) try to outdamage you when the mob has 300mr.


Why do you even have to ask what we're good at? I am yet to see another class put up 5 lines from DoTs every six seconds. None of them come close. Those 5 lines will outdamage the melee easily. They will outdamage the occasional nuke (if added together), they will outdamage everything. Why? They are constantly there. This is just an example, and not REAL numbers.


DoT a) 200dmg
DoT B) 175dmg
DoT c) 150dmg
DoT d) 225dmg
DoT e) 250dmg

Add that up. That's 1k damage, every six seconds.

Okay, here's a battle for you:

(all DoTs on)
[mob at 80% life]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob takes some damage]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob takes some damage]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob takes some damage]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob takes some damage]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob drops to 40% hp]
tick - 1k dmg
[mob dropped to 30% hp]
tick - 1kdmg
NUKE! 3-5kdmg

[mob is dead]

So really, who did more damage? :rolleyes: Plus we have pets and lifetaps. I'd like to see another close come close to our damage output, by themselves, in a long period of time. No outside help (no heals, no mod rods, etc). With the lich line, we'll be able to keep that up for a long time.

We are the masters of pain, suffering, and undead. No doubt about it.
________
Yamaha FZ1 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_FZ1)

[Mortimus]

Hmm did I miss anything that others seem to do?


Buffing ... and thank goodness we're rubbish at that! :)

illitcro is right about the DoTs, but we only really come into our own with DoTs either when soloing or (especially) on major mobs with high HPs. It would be pretty inefficient to stack that many DoTs on the majority of mobs. I am happiest when all my DoTs expire just as the mob falls to the ground!

[Schaeffer]

Sintalon,

We ARE the masters of Undead, We get a 70% undead slow, we can lull, charm and mezz them, and we also get Undead Specific DoTs, Nukes, Fears and Roots. Alot more Versatile than a Pally or Cleric as far as what they can do undead specific.

We are also the Masters of Damage. No one, not even a determined wizzy can do more Damage than us to a raid mob. They can Mana Burn, but we can Stack our DoT's and then Lifeburn. We get so many dots that can stack it's ridiculous: Snare, Splurt, Leech, Fire, Disease, Poison, Curse, and an Undead one. That's one for every spell gem if you wanna go crazy.

We are Awesome at Debuffing a MoB. We have a Resist Debuff, and group Taps that help alot, Str & Sta, Atk, AC, HP and Mana. You use them, your Group is Stacked and the Mobs is weak.

We Can use our mana to alot better efficiency than to give it away at such a horrible ratio. The only time I'll give it away is a Cleric, for CH's and Rezz's, or a Pally for pulling and Keeping aggro (even then I'll tell him to go easy with the stuns) or a Chanter whose LoM during some crazy crowd control. If the Druid is the only healer then I will twitch, and twitch often.

No way I'm giving mana to a Shaman, start canning. No way I'm giving it to a Wizzy, my mana will do the group better. No way I'm giving it to any Hybrid, (other than previously mentioned Pally, who still catches a tongue lashing for it!) They have a small mana pool for a reason, cause they have melee DPS too, stop trying to be a caster and start fighting.

[Schaeffer]

Oh yeah, and screw buffing, whew, I am definitely glad we don't get begged to for those...

[sintalon]

illitcro actually answered the way that i did. Its pure damage / DPS but its over time. We dont do much fast but give a good duration we smoke most people on DPS its just unseen.

I have to disagree with the undead master portion of your post Schaeffer. Clerics pallys chanters all get paci and slow at or around the same time we do. And theirs is gloabal where as ours is limited. Melee for pallys and clerics vs undead is very very nice. Just ask a highend cleric about their summoned proc hammer with the Nice bonus to undead.

Regarding giving up mana i just find it a selfish thing. I have the mana to Dot a mob 5 ways and still have much mana remaining to give any class. Any class could use our mana given the situation and our job as one of the best suppliers of instantaneous mana in the game is to do it. Its your job wether you want to admit it or not. Think of it as our way of helping out the mortals who cannot compete with us on mana regen. Anyway gotta bolt for now ill look back to this thread its been fun :)

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by sintalon@Dec 24 2003, 12:15 AM
I have to disagree with the undead master portion of your post Schaeffer. Clerics pallys chanters all get paci and slow at or around the same time we do. And theirs is gloabal where as ours is limited. Melee for pallys and clerics vs undead is very very nice. Just ask a highend cleric about their summoned proc hammer with the Nice bonus to undead.
I guess it depends on how you want to look at it. Yes, a Pally and a Cleric are going to outdamage when it comes to killing an undead thing. That's what they do, they are the Masters of Life. They heal with the powers of Light and therefore should stand to be powerful against Undead (the anithesis of light and life).

However, we are Masters of Death. That is why all our spells and abilities revolve around undead. In order to heal we must sacrifice our own life. In order to gain magic power, we sacrifice life. In order to ressurect we most Sacrifice. We can animaate and undead servant and command it, and we can make an exsisting undead bend to our will as well. Being a Master at something doesn't just mean you can destroy it easily, it means control. We can control undead better than anyone...

Clerics, chanters and Pally can pacify all, it's not specific. Because we are the masters of death we get it for undead. Chanters get charm and slow of all, because we master death, we get it specific. Clerics and Pallys don't get undead mezz and charm, and last I heard they can't slow either. They don't want to master it or control it, they want to destroy it. It's a difference in my eyes, but like I said, it depends on how you look at it, the glass is half full or half empty, or maybe you just have to accept the truth, there is no spoon...

[sintalon]

Been gone a bit for the holidays. Point taken amigo. It is valid. I was saying i have a hard time calling us masters of undead i would say specialist. similar thinking opposite ends of the spectrum is all.

Anycase good post good perspective. Hope everyone had a good Holiday.

[Aneastin]

Necros are Masters of two seperate areas.

1. DPS - This is our true calling. Other classes excel in this area as well, but Necros are either tops in DPS or in a close second or third spot in almost every situation. We are at our best in Long sustained encounters, but do well in short quick fights as well.

2. Mana Distribution - Though many Necros hate this aspect of the game no class comes close to our ability to distribute mana to others.

[Methisto]

I just hit 52 and was wondering about "group benefical" spells. I've heard a few non-necro's mention that I would be getting spells that affect my entire group, but they didnt have any more info. I know about the "Dead MEN Floating" spell, but what are the other spells that I should look for?

Thanks much!

[Schaeffer]

What a group tap does it is takes away something from the mob and redistributes it to every group member. So a 30 HP/tic group tap decreases the MoB's HPs by 30 a tic, and heals EVERY group member for 30hp/tic excluding pets.

45 Auspice - group HP tap over time for 30 and lasts 36 seconds

52 Degeration - group STA & STR tap for 30 and lasts 6 minutes

54 Succession of Shadow - group AC tap for 18 and lasts 6 minutes

56 Crippling Claudication - group ATK tap for 35 and lasts 6 minutes

58 Mind Wrack - group Mana Tap for 300 (costs 600 mana but you get 300 back (if not resisted) so net loss is 300 and it only works on caster MoBs)

60 Zevfeer's theft of Vitae - group HP tap over time for 80 and lasts 36 seconds

[Methisto]

Thank you so much for you quick and concise response. This is so very helpful.

[Torathe]

We Necros have one other useful ability,

Power Leveling!!! We can turn Newbees into Lowbees and Midbees faster and safer than any other class.

Load the first level lifetap spell (for pulling)
Load Screaming Terror
Summon a pet that is one or two sizes larger than the zone you plan to hunt. 20pet for East Commons, 24pet for West Commons as an example.
Give the newb a decent weapon, something dropped at Dulak's for example.

Instruct the newb on the power leveling technique and advise him that he has to wait until the mob is mezzed before he can attack or there will be no XP.

Pull a mob with the lifetap. (just enough to get it's attention)
Send in the pet.
Wait until the mob turns to crawl away, call off pet.
Hit mob with screaming terror.
Send in newb to finish off the stunned mob and get big XP.

With undead and braindead mobs use the same technique but the mob will never
turn and crawl away, you just have to time right and hit the mob with screaming terror when it's all but gone. send in newb and fear the mob.

When done properly, the newb will never even get hit.

Great way to make new friends and stack a guild with midbees.

Torathe
55 Necro on Veeshan

[Salizarr]

I thought that Screaming Terror had a small chance to clear aggro.
Does it always clear aggro?

I use a similar technique as you do, but i also cast FD after i ST the mob, didn't try it without to FD to see if it works.

Sal

[Alaster]

Originally posted by Aneastin@Jan 5 2004, 09:57 PM
Necros are Masters of two seperate areas.

1. DPS - This is our true calling. Other classes excel in this area as well, but Necros are either tops in DPS or in a close second or third spot in almost every situation. We are at our best in Long sustained encounters, but do well in short quick fights as well.

2. Mana Distribution - Though many Necros hate this aspect of the game no class comes close to our ability to distribute mana to others.
Hmmm, was very funny. People invite me into their groups to be their mana bish per se. Clerics who nuke more than I do, Shaman who DoT more than I do (and don't know how to canni well, yes there's an art to canni). Then after 2-3 pulls when I say FM:

Pally says, "Alaster if you're FM you should give the Cleric"
You say, "ROFL No!"
Pally says, "... Why? If you have mana give to your group members"
You say, "I'm not a twich bich. Necro = Damage"
Cleric says, "That is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard"
You say, "Clerics going OOM after 3 pulls is the most rediculous thing I've seen, I don't remember any adds do I?"
You have been removed from the group.

I don't mind twitching people who use proper mana management, but when I'm grinding reg exp and you are nuking/dotting yourself OOM (being pri healer/slower), I think it more efficient to solo some mobs for exp while you med other than giving you my mana. Needless to say they wiped soon after.

[Xyla]

It's unfortunate that many people dont' know the power of necro's but I've noticed a few of you almost seem to be asking yourselves the same question.What is it that we do thats so great?
The anwser to what we do great is the simple fact that we do everything.
Once people who've grouped with me realize what I can do they realize there group has suddenly gone from 6 to 12 people..Why?

1. Nuker. Through use of mana management and a kick butt pet I can out damage most other spell caster classes. While they're out of mana after the 3rd mob I'm still firing away 2,3 and 4 nukes or debuffs depending on the party needs.
2. Backup healer. nothing helps a cleric more knowing they can let the tanks go down to 15-20% waiting for that full heal when I can keep someone else from death. This also helps them with mana efficiency having to cast full heals less often.
3. Off-tank I keep hearing about how we can mezz stuff with screaming terror. Dont know about you, but personally i'd prefer to blow the mob to hell then sit there casting & recasting screaming terror and get nothing done. Pull your pet of main mob, aggro the add and life tap to heal. Usually I can kill my add before the rest of the group has killed the first mob.
4. Twitcher Even while pumping out nukes I can maintain enough mana that in emergency situations I can pump whoever needs it.
5. Back-up puller. In an undead area I lull the heck out of everything. For the moron who says..oh..that mobs undead whatcha gonna do? Well i lull the heck out of everything else and pull that mob first. Not real hard to understand.
6. Lots of dumb stuff no one ever thought of. Ever been in a group and lost loot when a mob fell into a wall or tree? Locate corpse to target then /loot
For those times when **it hit the fan and everyone died? No one like a necro to summon corpses out of a dangerous area for rezzing and nothing speeds up rez's like a necro twitch to keep that rezzer going.
Looter. The mana flows wether i'm sitting or standing..Let your other spell classes who usually end up being looters sit and med while you loot up and gain mana

Well..just my two cents, but I know from friends thats what I do that makes me so valuable to any group

Xyla

[nethyia]

Currently I'm only level 40, doing LDoN. I've done pretty well I think, I've had a few people specifically thank me for the group, and the good job I've done. At this level, I'm more nuking than DoTing, as the DoTs only hit maybe 3 times before the mob is dead, and using 160m with Venom of the Snake for 220 damage when I can do the same damage with Torbid's Acid Blast, or a bit more with Expel Undead if appropriate, for 30 less mana seems better. It looks like I'm about to get to the point where I can start being even more useful to the group, though.

On the subject of twitching, I can usually manage it to where people don't have to ask for a twitch. I've pretty much figured out that if the cleric is asking for a twitch, then either he doesn't know the best way to play in the group, or something has gone Horribly Wrong. With pretty constant pulling in an LDoN group, my mana bar will rise slightly between pull and death. With all the extra mana, I go ahead and twitch the main healer, and if I still have a bit over 50% mana, possibly the crowd control caster as well if I've seem them casting a bit.

Even if the healer seems to be using mana inefficiently (like the many a times I've had to ask people to stop healing me, may need to make that a hot key), I'll go ahead and twitch to keep the group going, then try to pay attention to whoever seems to be burning through all the mana (usually healer or crowd control also trying to nuke), and ask them to stop. Think of it whichever way suits you better, either your doing them a favor by teaching them to play better, or if you are selfish, you're training your new pet healer how to play right :)

Nethyia, Grabbing all the Power as fast as possible

[Origomali]

Pally says, "Alaster if you're FM you should give the Cleric"
You say, "ROFL No!"
Pally says, "... Why? If you have mana give to your group members"
You say, "I'm not a twich bich. Necro = Damage"
Cleric says, "That is the most rediculous thing I've ever heard"
You say, "Clerics going OOM after 3 pulls is the most rediculous thing I've seen, I don't remember any adds do I?"
You have been removed from the group.

LOL !!!!!! That is so funny. Next time, pull a room full of adds and FD out of the fight :-).

I tell everyone to run multiple chat windows...I run 5....one just for shouts and /randoms as I don't need those scrolling through my main chat window that I tend to concentrate on most and another just for damage, battle text, spells, etc. This way everyone can see, if filtered properly, who is actually doing their part.

I just love seeing that message in a group: Origomali has slain a *********. Unless you have a Wizzy in the group that always nukes heavy at the end of a battle to deal the killing blow to the MoB.....in most groups, if dotted properly, a Necro or his/her Pet will get that lovely message at least 30-40% of the time if not more.

In my Guild, we have orders based on level. Our highest Order is for level 60+. When grouping for LDoN, events or raids, there tends to be only 3 classes pre-60 that seem to be accepted or asked most often depending on the situation.

Clerics: Can always use an extra chain healer.
Warriors: Can always use an extra assist tank and they can use the exp.
Necromancers: Our spells get fewer resists, our DoTs stack well and our DPS is sickening.

I remember my first trip to UP...was with a group of Droods from the Guild, all about 7+ levels higher than me....I was just high enough to fill the 2/3rds requirement......can't remember everything about that trip but I was amazed that I couldn't think of a single resist for any spell I cast that night.....but I did hear a lot of.....(hot-keyed) "resisted *****" from the higher level "treehuggers".

I never have any doubts about my character's abilities or whether or not I am playing him properly and the proof is in how often I am asked to group. The only conflicts I routinely see is when someone in my group casts a slow on a MoB I already Dark'd or some dumb Cleric or minor healer class ignores my pleas to save their mana for the tanks as I can heal myself.

[Skova]

the whole key to that is "over a long period of time" most regular non raid mobs wont live long enough to cast that many dots on unless your soloing. In a short fight ( as most non raid encounters are) nukes ARE better damage. so let the wizard fry 60% mana nuking it. we have so many other ways to help the group and not even do damage to the mob and still be a great benefit.

9 times out of 10 when im in a group i cast Zev's theft and cess of cor. then i sit and med for 20 secs to get full and twitch the healer once. mobs usually die very near after that. and ive never had one complaint

[Fahllen]

Funny story Alastar, one of the first things I say to any group that I join(unless raid). If the healer abuses his/her mana they don't get a twich and I will gate out. But I have run into some 45+(KEI) clerics that can melee like no other and never have to ask me for mana.

You guys were talking about LDoN's and soloing such I decided to tell a story, yes gather around fellow undead givers. Somewhere between 35-40 I got invited to go LDoN. Usual group of warr, pally, chanter, cleric, ranger and me. Within the first 10 minutes of being in the dungeon we had already wiped out about 15-20 of the slaughter requirement. Fun group very easy, but after that they got slower wanting more med time etc.. so I told'm go one way I'll go another..course they thought I was crazy but I ended up killing 13-18 solo on one side while they got the others.

I'm not a super twink, or by any means a good player. If I could I would LDoN myself, probably not succeed solo but I would get the exp :P

After that LDoN ended up forming an all necro pet party, aside from a beastlord. We did a slaughter in half the time just using pets. Anyways another useless post---


Fahllen

[Alaster]

Horror usually does full duration on the mob, and I still throw in 2-4 nukes on it depending on mob HPs. I have BA4, AE4, and AH4. Casting time on Horror is 3.8 Seconds with BoR also. Casting time on BoT (since i get ocassional resist on Horror) is almost the same. Horror is usually on the mob before the tank touches it. If I get a resist I immediately cast BoT.

I throw in 2-4 Neurotoxins or Ancient: Lifebanes depending on how mana efficient I want to get (with mage Bracer I always do Neuro since me and mage friend have nuking contests, I have crit6). I use about 20% mana on each mob and regen half of the mana used by the time next mob is in camp. If we are chainpulling I will just use Horror + BoT and maybe a nuke and call it good.

If we get an add I always tell the Enchanter/Shaman/Beastlord to slow it ASAP and let me offtank it. One Enchanter gated because he said we weren't listeining. I told him it's usually good to try to mezz an add before you tash it, whether then tash/mezz since a mob beating on tank for 4 seconds is nothx. O well. I did play an Enchanter up to 65 but I guess I just played a shitty one /shrug

I was in a Normal LDoN where all we did was pull 3-4 mobs and offtank them (Bst/warder gets one, Necro/pet gets one, pally/monk get one). We finished in 28 minutes. Touch of Mujaki > All.

[Doomfir]

I would like to say one thing about this "our job to supply mana" bit. It is.. yes.... and no. We were given the spells in order to make us more "groupable" because Necro's were near the bottom of the group totem for a long time. Everyone looked on us as a solo class.. So they added something that would make us desireable in groups.

Well.. we allready have something desireable.. it is called DPS and those smart enough to know what our spells can do use us for that. But there are some who will use us for twitch bitch. Why? Because they love to use up mana. However, why should I take 400 of my mana.. just to give someone 100 of it and toss 300 to the wind? With 300 mana I could toss another nuke on a mob and do allot more dmg than giving someone else 100 mana..

I consider it a cleric only priveledge on the whole. The cleric has no control on his / her mana because the tanks set the usage. However, If I see a cleric meleeing his wee bit of dmg and then want to be twitched he is going to get an earfull. I will not give mana to a wizards, sk, ranger, etc.. unless they are serving a utilitarian function in the group like pacify etc.. which means they also have no control over their mana.

But if a wizard just wants to over nuke, or a chanter wants to DoT, etc.. and runs low, it just tells me that they don't know how to pace themselves on mana and just want you to be their mana slave. I don't put up with that. Yes.. if you are serving the group in some support capacity and have no control over how much mana you use because of it, you can expect me to supply you mana; but if you just want to put down 5 nukes when you should be using only 3 per mob then I wont give you one twitch. Learn to play your class is all I can say.

[Devlinn Deathcaster]

When i group no one seems to know what necros really can do, were basically stereo typed almost. nothing ticks me off more than when i mez inc agros the tank goes around and breaks it. and theres nothing like watching a group member die trying to save you. please we necros know when to get out of bad situation ( I hardly ever i soloed 3 frost giants yesterday) and all i get is complaints from the person who died saying why didnt you help me? well basically i really cant help them when they are being stupid and breaking all the mezzes. So what i think is that other players who dont know a necros true abilities just get them selves killed when they are grouped with you becuz they ahve no real idea wtf you are doing.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Devlinn Deathcaster@Jan 29 2004, 12:59 PM
When i group no one seems to know what necros really can do, were basically stereo typed almost... So what i think is that other players who dont know a necros true abilities just get them selves killed when they are grouped with you becuz they ahve no real idea wtf you are doing.
Hot Keys man, Hot Keys...

Let them know everything you are doing and what they should do to deal with it. If you're rooting or mezzing let them know to back off. If you're snaring let them know so someone else doesn't root it or override you snare with one that doesn't do damage. If you're debuffing or slowing let them know, and also let them know if you get resisted. High level MoBs that aren't slowed won't give you much time to FD so let them be ready for it if you may take aggro. If you're gonna root rot an add, let the chanter know so he doesn't get aggro everytime you dot breaks his mezz. If you're gonna throw a twitch on the cleric after a CH let them know, this way no one bitches at you if the cleric goes oom. Ignorance is rampant, but it only takes a little bit of effort to enlighten the dim...

[Nerconom]

Ok, I know this comes late in this thread, but I'm brand new to the forum, so bear with me:)

Some one many posts back asked what exactly are we masters of in EQ, and many people have stated their opinions, so here's my 2cp. Basically, I would say we are the masters of life and death in general. Let me explain, there is no other class that I'm aware of that can constantly pull health from the enemy, then turn around and use that health to either give to our tanks, or convert it to mana for our casters. We can pretty much heal ourselves by ripping it from any creature dumb enough to be close by. Our lifetap dots continue to give us health even after the mob has been killed, so if for some reason I find myself low on health, I just find some poor unsuspecting green mob and refill myself.
On top of moving everything beneficial from the mob to our group, we have a fairly nice method of constently protecting ourselves, something a bit atypical for most caster classes. I play a druid and I have played a wizzy before, but while grouping with them if I got aggro a bit too much that usually spelled death for me (especially my wizzy). In an identical situation with my Necro, my pet played savior, taunted the mobs off me better than our warrior could, and I was free to lifetap myself back to full health and start to heal the tanks. Don't get me wrong, the other classes have been fun to play, but the sheer flexibility of a Necro makes leveling easier than most and a master of staying alive and killing at the same time :D

PS: in case anyone was wondering, Necronom is my new char, my first necro. His last name will be Mican. If you understand the humor in that, then I feel at home here!

[Jorrath]

Originally posted by sintalon@Dec 22 2003, 10:06 PM
i just am curious what it is that we do so well that no other class can even come close.
I had to register just to answer this question...

Everquest is designed arround the grouping concept. We all know that. The concentrate on balancing the classes. If any class has a strong suit, they have a serious weakness as well... Wizards nuke for amazing ammounts of damage and can't take any... Warriors can take thousands of points of damage and are slow to give and and slowerto recover from it...

We are Necromancers. We balance healing ourselves with damaging the MoB. What other class does that nearly as well as we do?

But to answer the question... Our true strength is being able to partially fill any need a party might have... We can heal and give mana and mez and debuff and provide melee/taunt (via our pets).

Only Bards out do us in functional versatility- But if only one person in the party survives the battle, the bard would have to run away- The Necro would finish it.


Jorrath the Gnecromancer
Marlos Battleborne -Bard

[Salizarr]

Originally posted by Jorrath@Feb 4 2004, 08:19 PM
Only Bards out do us in functional versatility- But if only one person in the party survives the battle, the bard would have to run away- The Necro would finish it.
Amen to that!!!! :D

Sal