Fear = charm

[Xaupus]

i got told this but i dont know
lesser the charm better the fear ??

can any1 tell me if this is ture ?

Thx :)

[Schaeffer]

do you mean lesser Charisma = Better fear?

If so than no, lesser Charisma helps with better Charms

[Doomfir]

Not sure what is being refered to here, but the greater the charisma you have the longer charm will last. The same thing goes for Necros who are charming a mob for a pet as it does for enchanters. If you want your charm to hold longer then get your charisma up. Mine is 188 base now with no cha buffs and I consider that low. I can switch out one item of my gear and get it to 208, but I have to sacrifice either my Book of the Lost City (BA3) or my ceramic incense burner of Ro ID4 to get it that high. I roll on all the cha augs from LDoN.

Also, fear and charisma are not related. The amount of time fear lasts is based on the server random number generator / Fear equasion (level vs mob level, etc.) and not on a stat such as charisma.

[Emperson]

well im not gonna comment on this one till i know what hes talking about hehe

[Xaupus]

Yea i ment lesser the Charisma better the fear

(soz i canny spell)

[sintalon]

ive heard the Charisma debate multiple times from alot of different areas. If youll notice my Cha is 60. i have never had an issue fearing or charming a mob. If you read the spells charms are random timers mostly. The only charm breaks i ever noticed were when i had just leveled and gotten that particular spell. Then yes it broke alot. the higher i leveled the less it broke. Then i got DC and went on with life. There is still a time and place for our Higher end charms but they are more situational then for actual xping imo. Regarding fear and cha i have rarely if ever not had a fear last its full duration back when i used to actually use the spell.

I agree with emperson that i am not quite sure what the initial question was/is but the CHA debate has come up a few times in my undead existence and ive never seen anything that linked it to us. Personal experience has shown me that cha is good for selling the loot i just pillaged from the rotting corpses of my latest victims.

[Doomfir]

Charm duration has a cha check in it. It is the same for all classes that charm whether you are a bard, enchanter, or necromancer. The higher your cha the longer your charm will last weighted against the random number generator.

[Emperson]

to my knowing... cha has nothing to do with fear...

heh and he didnt ask anything about charm guys ;)

[Doomfir]

He said charisma... and that has to do with charm. It is part of the discussion emp.

[Emperson]

I know im only kidding... heh

[Lotrell]

Enchanter charms are charisma based. All necro charms (with one exception) do NOT have a charisma check. The one charm we have that does make that check is the lvl 65 charm, Word of Terris.

[Quezquotyl]

And if doesn't last all that long, you could always recast on the mob. =)

[Doomfir]

Since when aren't necro charms cha based? Beguile undead necro = Bequile chanter, etc.. The only difference is that the necro one is undead only and identicle in every other way.

All charm has a cha basis (to my understanding of the way charm works and is implemented in the game). Where is the information contrary to this?

[Fizzleplink]

Hm, from an ancient post on a now-dead site (Kunark era), I believe we *do* have a charisma check on our charms. I also recall that Necromancer charms use a different table than enchanter charms.

So, I figured I'd test it.

My Cha is 36ish usually. Ran half of 45, half of 46, and half of 47 with my "normal" charisma, and charm soloed the plague thief pyramid in Dreadlands.

For the 2nd half of each level, I equipped 2 of the lovely planar steins and bumped my charisma to over 100 (I wonder why my claws are so ugly... /shrug) and did exactly the same thing.

Timed each of the charms, and averaged them at the end of each level. Other than charm at level 47 being an average 32 seconds longer than at 45 and 46 (which were roughly equal), there was no concrete difference. Level 46 "purty" (+ cha) was longer (18 secs) than "ugly", but level 45 "purty" was 12 seconds shorter than "ugly" mode, and level 47 "purty" was an amazing 24 secs shorter average charm duration than level 47 "ugly."

EQ's random number generator is so streaky that these all fall within its purview. All things being equal, I'd imagine there's some advantage to being purty, but sadly the dead seem oblivious to the finer points of life.

Edit: Typo.

[Ahura Mazda]

/sigh

cha has no effect on our charm
it has no effect on our fear

if you want cheaper coffins and better profit when selling to vendors then buy CHA till your little black heart explodes but it wont get you anything with charm

this has been tested over and over and proven. if you want your charm to last longer you hvae to debuff the target's magic resist, this is the only factor that is gonna give you a longer charm duration.

i have tested this personaly and seen it. ive charmed with 200+ CHA and had total random durations from 5sec to max 3min. when i used my Orb of Tishan my avg charm duration went over 10min. This isn't BS, try it for yourself. This is in Veksar on Highborns using WoT.

waste all the money u want on CHA gear while charming, it'll only drain your mana pool and pp supply. get just CHA to have over 125 or something like that for selling to vendors.

[Doomfir]

I have a totally different experience with charm and Cha than you did. When I had <96 cha my charm hit less and was of shorter duration. My cha with a slight change out in gear is now 198 and hits more often and is typically longer in duration. I DO agree that tashing a mob also has an effect (and a greater one than cha), but show me a non combat tash item and I will use it as well (orb of Tishania is a combat proc). I don't know of one for a necro.

I also THINK (though I have not tried to prove it), that when a mob rampages into your camp and picks a victim that has NOT hit HIM yet, cha is like an aura that helps the mob to choose another target to strike first. This does not mean that if you are sitting and everyone else is standing he will smack the people standing first. But I believe... all else being equal, the mob appears to smack on people with a lower cha first. This is afterall the principle that certain agro hate spells are built on. This is JUST my gut instinct on this however and I have no information to back this claim up.

I however do not like to post anything concerning my experience unless is a matter of personal preference or subject to interpretation. Charm and the effect of charisma on charm is not such a matter and is set in the algorythmic stone of the game.

Either provide written documention contrary to the long held and substantial understanding that cha plays in charming or be prepared to have your experience discounted (at least by me). As I say, my exp has been different with cha and charm than yours.

[Fizzleplink]

Anecdotal evidence from enchanters (@ Casters Realm and The Runes) indicates that benefits from Charisma seem to start at 150 CHA, then again about every 25 CHA.

Falls in line with what I've parsed with stats such as Dex, ATK, and so on.

Also would help explain why I saw no real effect from Cha 36 / Cha 111. I would've hoped that Cha over 100 would have had some effect.

Curse you, RNG! /shakes fist

[Origomali]

Well the issue if whether or not charisma has an effect on Necromancer charms will never seem to die but according to what I have read in the last 2 years or so, it did at one time but Sony in all its infinite wisdom changed that with a patch some 18 months ago....sorry, I cannot quote the exact date or patch.

The reason it was changed if I remembered correctly was due to class-balancing and a realization that Necromancers are charming undead creatures, those who should not be affected by how "purty" you are.

I may be wrong and have no time to test it myself but that is what I remember.

As for charisma when buying or selling to npc vendors, the max you need is 109. Faction also comes into play as a ally vendor will give better prices than one below indifferent. This is tried and true....to test it yourself, take one peridot and obtain a price offered by an ally npc merchant while changing your charisma from low to high. Once you hit 109+, the price is constant, somewhere just above 9 plat.

[Ahura Mazda]

One big reason it got changed or never had an effect is that a LOT of necro only or necro slanted gear has NEGATIVE CHARISMA on it. Pretty messed up to give us a charm and then load us up with gear that makes the charm useless. (yes i know this sounds like SoE but trust me, it isn't the case.)

CHA has no effect on FEAR or CHARM DURATION.

Please dont waste any time or money trying to buy or find CHA gear for your necro other then to save a couple plat when buying coffins and peridots.

[Doomfir]

Sorry, this is BS. I tested it below 96 cha, and above 190 and there was about a 10% difference in my OWN findings. I do AGREE however, that tashing a mob (lowering its resists significantly), makes a much larger difference even for enchanters than CHA these days.

As for Necro gear having neg cha, that also isnt true. I use allot of gear that is native with +cha. For that matter, most caster gear is universal with mage, enchanter, necromancer, and wizard. The -cha gear is the same with all classes. My rogue BP has neg cha on it... then I have another bp with +cha.. go figure.

[Jebasiz]

I don't notice any difference at 175ish charisma or 208 since I got some gear that just happened to have charisma bonuses. The only thing that for sure does make a difference (and it's been said already) is debuffing the MR of whatever your charming. Tash and/or malo lines are key. Charisma does effect Divine Intervention, so if you pull for raid targets at all it's not a bad idea to get your charisma to a decent level...but I don't think it really helps with charm or fear (.

10% difference on charm duration being attributed to 100% mark up in your charisma does not mean they are linked in anyway. YOUR findings could have been the exact same had you done nothing to change your charisma at all...SOE has wide variations in charm duration, and always have. Don't believe me...group with a necro with 90 charisma, go to MM theme in ldon, have 2 mobs tashed, and see who has to recharm more often...I think you'll find it's completely random.

Jeb

[Doomfir]

Wasnt random Jeb, I ran a test on it for over a week in 3 different camp spots on litterly 100's of mobs. One being in the grey on udead mobs there. I charm one, and use it to sick another etc.. etc.. Yes, ~10% is marginal, but it exists none the same. I hear so much in this forum that innate regen is meaningful, and it is less than 10% of total regen of that and another race; and now 10% charm time is meaningless? hmm..