Lifetap tanking viable for xp?

[Prelgor]

Hello all! I've recently started a new necromancer, and I admit the character is rather twinked (10/20 weapon, 36% haste robe, etc.). My main is a 58 beastlord, for reference, and the necro is now 21.

Lately, I have been having loads of fun tanking mobs with a DS up, leading off with Leach (lifetap DoT) and applying a DD lifetap as needed. Downtime is pretty low. My concern is that my twink gear is inflating my AC to where I take much less damage than I "should" for my level.

Does lifetap tanking remain a viable strategy throughout a necro's life? Will I have to abandon this tactic once my levels catch up with my gear? I've read accounts here about necros who "save the day" by lifetap tanking the adds, but it's not clear to me whether this is a desperate act (better 10 minutes of downtime than death) or an everyday tactic.

In any event, it's hard to resist the fun of seeing my hp bar go up while the monster's is going down. :)

[Trudat]

I can guarantee you, you wont be tanking WoS mobs at level 65+ without dieing a fair deal ;) Unless of course you're time geared or better(I've seen it done)

[Nep]

Lifetap tanking is something we often do when the crap hits the fan in exp groups. The tank dies unexpectedly followed by the cleric, I usually try to kite the mob so that I dont take much/any damage or I step in and just start chaining lifetaps.

As a Necro, you will get summoned a lot later on and beat on. Its good to keep on top of those defensive skills so that you can avoid some of those hits when the time comes for you to have to step in and tap tank.

But no, its not a viable way for exp. You will have a lot of downtime waiting for mana if you try to do this with every mob.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Prelgor@Jan 12 2005, 03:34 PM
(better 10 minutes of downtime than death)
Hrm.. a few minutes from flat to full mana.. welcome to real mana regen. Taint never 10 minutes.

OK.. ok.. I checked.. I regen like 1000/mana a minute. So.. zero to my 5600 mana is like 5.6 mins.. but I am rarely zero.. and rarely wait for FM to pull.. 60% is enough of a buffer.. and I can lengthen a few fights (cast one less DoT say) catch up.

But.. your points. It's perfectly normal to do tank stuff while Leech runs (especially with twink stuff like the dark green haste robe and a good knife) at your age.

The lesson you are learning is that your pet is frailer than you are. Sometimes it can hang in.. a bit.. and that's good. But remember it's a bonechip and some mana. Mostly, you heal yourself better than it does.. and there are times when you will be eating the brunt of a mob so Goner will continue to serve you. The trick is knowing when.

"Tap tanking" is really more with direct lifetaps.. not over time. The direct ones get rather large compared to the over time ones (like Leech). This really kicks in starting with "Touch of Mujaki" at level 61. Before that, taps are slooooooow casting. ToM casts in a base 3.5.. and there are tons of ways to get that under 3 seconds. Suddenly you have a pretty got shot at channeling one. And there are AA to make them hit for double (Theft of Life). The big kids (not lil me) often heal themselves for 6K a cast.. thats my group buffed HPs (5980).. when Spell Casting Fury and Theft of Life both hit.

There does come a point (well.. points) when you are not *best* served by having the 900 hitter (quad) resting on you for the entire fight.. you are better served having it chase you, and having it rending the air rather than your silk wrapped self (well.. maybe if it's slowed *giggles*).

And "real" tap tanking event will really eat your mana.. and cause some down time.. and I like to hunt zero down time.. seriously. Even the two minutes to clear FD agro is too long! But.. you gotta do what you gotta do.

What you are doing is fun.. enjoy it!

At 34 you get "Invoke Fear" and Fear Kiting becomes stupid easy. This will make it so Goner and you remain basically unmarked.

Over time, this tactic will (need to) transition into agro kiting.. either there is no safe way to use fear, or increasingly more things are immune to fear.

Then you have summon kiting which is really more like tap tanking with less taps.. cause you are moving *away* much of the time and not casting, nor getting hit (you hope!).. but are still mana regening at a scary rate.

What you will not see much of is straight pet tanking.. even undead things you can slow 70%.. your pet is the weakest of the pet classes and that is not it's function, frankly. There are times, but mostly *not* the mobs you are XPing. Most of your stategies will be based on the idea that the mob is hitting nothing.. while you are getting the full impact of your pet's melee and your spells.

Honestly your power relative to the enviroment will only go up from here.. you will just not be tanking every mob toe to toe. Let some smuck in platemail do that.

*reads back* God.. I need to switch to decaf.. ok, sending this anyway.

[Prelgor]

Thanks, Felicite! That seems like a wonderful explanation of what makes a necro "tick". Deep down, I knew there would only be so long I could play a necro like a beastlord. :)

How do you clear dungeons at upper levels? My big concern is keeping the mob's nearby friends from discovering the private party with me and Goner. A beastlord can tank the mobs where they stand and hope to kill them before they run very far. Kiting seems to take lots of room, but I will definitely have to give it some practice soon in outdoor zones. I suppose I could go druid on them and root/rot. If my pet isn't up to tanking indoors, I'm running out of ideas...

Thanks for the help!

[Jawsh]

I'm pretty sure at around 60-65 plus you wont be doing much tap tanking thats worth it XP wise. I didnt say that you CANT tap tank things, Im just saying I dont think its going to be any better then aggro kiting or root rotting. Plus the mobs start to hit around 1k+ and quad and usually pretty fast!

[richardrahll]

You don't have root yet, but root rotting becomes a viable strategy in dungeons with tight space.

If mobs are real close to each other in a dungeon, i FD-split em, and root the one i split and dot him to death, and sic boner on him at about 30% health while he's rooted. I do this until enough room is available to agro kite the remaining mobs in the area without getting the adds. Agro-kiting is better than root-rotting cause it uses less mana and kills the mobs quicker and is therefore less downtime, but root-rottilng works for clearing an area that has limited space. After the first cycle and the spawn is broken, I just agro-kite them as the new spawns pop.

The one place agro-kiting didn't work for me was Najena's lair(solusek B). Pathing always seemed to make the mobs drop off an edge while they were chasing me, and i'd lose them and they'd find their way back to beat on me at exactly the wrong time. Only way to win in this dungeon for me was root-rotting and tap-tanking wanderers that came upon me at the wrong time. I hated fighting there and haven't gone back there after one session of this. Would probably be better with a group.

Famtin, a 54th level gnecro on e'ci

[Xelgadis]

For the most part, I usually only tap tank in areas where I'm farming, and I'm not patient enough to let the noisy windbag spectre chop the mob down. There's been other instances where my life was dropping so fast, most of the damage comes from my lifetaps, or if I click my dagger, not overly mana efficient against mobs that still give half-assed decent exp to a level 70 toon.

If things go sour in an xp group; I'll usually kite the mob (if it summons, I'll summon kite), sometimes I'll tank it directly (but be careful as 11-1200+ hitters can drop you very quickly).

Last night, I was grouped with some friends in Sol Ro, farming ornate for whatever reason. After a while, the tank and bard had to go to bed; leaving the cleric, enchanter, and myself... and I wanted to finish that AA off.. Grats me, tank. Loaded up Fear and Clinging Darkness (so the mobs didn't eat the enchanter when I broke mez), grabbed my Ykesha proccing Scythe of Sundering (for the look ;)), and went to town. For the most part, I kept myself up fine with lifetaps, but the cleric was always ready to heal if necessary (she was usually nuking). I still get a good laugh when a CH lands on me, yet doesn't completely heal me (my fault for bringing adds, and I didn't see that the enchanter went AFK)

No screenshots, unfortunately, so... INC << Spam! >> :P

[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] Xelgadis delivers a critical blast! (100)
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] You deliver a critical blast! (100)
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] Your target is immune to the stun portion of this effect.
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] A protector of Ro has been struck by the force of Ykesha.
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] You slash a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] a protector of Ro says 'You will not evade me Xelgadis!'
[Thu Jan 13 04:38:59 2005] You have been summoned!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:00 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:01 2005] You tell your party, 'proc proc proc'
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:01 2005] a protector of Ro has been slain by a mephit lackey!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:01 2005] You gain group leadership experience!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:01 2005] You gain party experience!!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:06 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:06 2005] You begin casting Fear.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:06 2005] Divineglory begins to cast a spell. <Supernal Elixir>
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:08 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:08 2005] Your target is too high of a level for your fear spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:08 2005] Your target resisted the Fear spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:10 2005] Supernal elixir pumps through your body.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:10 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:10 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:11 2005] You begin casting Clinging Darkness.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:11 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:13 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:13 2005] Your target is immune to changes in its run speed.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:13 2005] Your target resisted the Clinging Darkness spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:13 2005] Divineglory begins to cast a spell. <Mark of the Righteous>
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] A protector of Ro tries to kick YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 64 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 48 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:14 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:15 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:15 2005] You begin casting Fear.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:15 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:16 2005] A protector of Ro's skin gleams with bright red runes.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:16 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 44 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:17 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:17 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] Your target is too high of a level for your fear spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] Your target resisted the Fear spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:18 2005] Auto attack is on.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:19 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 52 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:19 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 80 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:19 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:21 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:21 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 100 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:22 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:22 2005] You begin casting Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:23 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 68 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:24 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:24 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:24 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 417 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] A protector of Ro's blood burns with the venom of chaos.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:25 2005] Your Dragorn Runemark sparkles.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:26 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:26 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 611 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:26 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 64 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:28 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:28 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 92 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:28 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:28 2005] You begin casting Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:28 2005] Kibantik kicks a protector of Ro for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:29 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 80 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:29 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 32 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 338 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 180 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:30 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 655 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:31 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 100 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:32 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:32 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 483 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:32 2005] Your spell is interrupted.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:33 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:33 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:34 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:34 2005] You begin casting Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:35 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:35 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:36 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 64 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:36 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 80 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:37 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:37 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:37 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 25 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 1130 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 96 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 100 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] A protector of Ro's skin dissolves away.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:38 2005] Your Dragorn Runemark sparkles.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 56 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:40 2005] A protector of Ro kicks YOU for 138 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:41 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:41 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:41 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 576 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:42 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:42 2005] You begin casting Dark Nightmare.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:42 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:43 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:43 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 68 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:43 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:43 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 48 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:43 2005] Divineglory begins to cast a spell. <Reproach>
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:44 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:44 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 473 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:44 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:44 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 1444 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:45 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 84 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:45 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:45 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:45 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:45 2005] Your target resisted the Dark Nightmare spell.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 655 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:46 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] Maellaria begins to cast a spell. <Ancient: Neurosis>
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 76 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] Kibantik kicks a protector of Ro for 30 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:47 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:48 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:48 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 60 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:49 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:49 2005] You begin casting Ancient: Touch of Orshilak.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:49 2005] A protector of Ro staggers under divine reproach.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 1250 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 766 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 72 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:50 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] A protector of Ro's mind is stuck by neurosis.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] Xelgadis hit a protector of Ro for 1400 points of non-melee damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] A protector of Ro staggers
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] You have healed Xelgadis for 1366 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:51 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:52 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 444 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:52 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 84 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:52 2005] You slash a protector of Ro for 18 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:53 2005] Divineglory begins to cast a spell. <Order>
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:54 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:54 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:54 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 60 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:55 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:55 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 44 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:56 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:56 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 515 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:56 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:56 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 805 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:57 2005] The supernal elixir fades.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:57 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 29 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:57 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:57 2005] You begin casting Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:57 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:59 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 84 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:39:59 2005] A protector of Ro staggers in pain.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 365 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] Maellaria begins to cast a spell. <Ancient: Neurosis>
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:00 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:01 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:01 2005] Your spell is interrupted.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 506 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 856 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:02 2005] You begin casting Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:04 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 44 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:04 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 56 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:04 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 56 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:04 2005] A protector of Ro's mind is stuck by neurosis.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:05 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 44 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] A protector of Ro's blood burns with the venom of chaos.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Your Dragorn Runemark sparkles.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:06 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:07 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:07 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 56 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:07 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:07 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:08 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:08 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:08 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 1084 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:08 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:08 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 856 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] You shake off the stun effect!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:09 2005] A protector of Ro kicks YOU for 141 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:11 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:11 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:11 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 48 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:11 2005] Kibantik bashes a protector of Ro for 36 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:12 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 92 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 92 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] A protector of Ro staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] Kibantik staggers.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] Maellaria begins to cast a spell. <Ancient: Neurosis>
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:13 2005] You slash a protector of Ro for 13 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] You haven't recovered yet...
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 593 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 1508 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 72 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:14 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 92 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:16 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:16 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:16 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 100 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:16 2005] Kibantik kicks a protector of Ro for 35 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:17 2005] You tell your party, '<3 stun resist'
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:18 2005] Xelgadis hit a protector of Ro for 50 points of non-melee damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:18 2005] Your target is immune to the stun portion of this effect.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:18 2005] A protector of Ro has been struck by the force of Ykesha.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:18 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:19 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:20 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:20 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 575 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:20 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:20 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 670 damage from your Ancient: Curse of Mori.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:20 2005] Your Ancient: Curse of Mori spell has worn off.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] Your Nolaen's Lifereaper Sleeves shimmers briefly.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] You begin casting Ancient: Touch of Orshilak.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] Kibantik kicks a protector of Ro for 30 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 104 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:21 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 88 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 48 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] Your Power of Conservation 5 Benefit flickers with a pale light.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] Your Misty Globe feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] Xelgadis hit a protector of Ro for 1325 points of non-melee damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] A protector of Ro staggers
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:23 2005] You have healed Xelgadis for 965 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:26 2005] Your Xxeric's Warbraid feels alive with power.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:26 2005] A protector of Ro has taken 588 damage from your Chaos Venom.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:27 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 16 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:27 2005] a protector of Ro was hit by non-melee for 34 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:27 2005] A protector of Ro hits YOU for 153 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:27 2005] A protector of Ro tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:28 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 52 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:28 2005] Kibantik slices a protector of Ro for 28 points of damage.
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:28 2005] a protector of Ro has been slain by a mephit lackey!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:28 2005] You gain group leadership experience!
[Thu Jan 13 04:40:28 2005] You gain party experience!!

[Prelgor]

Thanks for all of the replies!

It sounds like my tanking days are definitely numbered. I'll enjoy it while it lasts though, for several short-term reasons: getting Defense skill ups each level, getting Dodge skill-ups (now that I've dinged 22), and the needlites in Echo (in late 20's) + Banshee DS = too good to pass up. :)

Can anyone comment on mid-level strategies? EQ is full of examples where viable strategies at low levels just plain don't work (as well, or at all) at high levels, and vice versa. My main is 58, and it took me a year of slow play to get there, so I don't expect to be in OoW zones with my necro anytime soon, or in bleeding-edge content ever. :) Can I still be occasionally tanking in, say, my 40's or will my hunting have become exclusively a non-contact sport by then? With only 3 weapon skillups before the cap each level, I expect to be wondering why I even get weapon skills sometime in my 30's, and I figure that the mitigation of even good silk armor will resemble wet Kleenex shortly after that. Is that about right?

[Xelgadis]

In the mid-range, you have a few options available to you: Fear Kiting, Aggro Kiting, and Pet Tanking primarily.

Fear kiting is, perhaps, the most common approach that many necros take. Snare, fear, send pet in, DoT, etc. This approach, however, becomes unviable when you start fighting mobs that are 55+ in level, as they will become immune to fear based spells.

Pet tanking is just as the name suggests; let your pet take the damage, while between yourself and your pet, you kill the mob. The viability of this approach will lessen over time, to the point where it's very difficult to near impossible to keep your pet up. For the most part, this approach is useful until you start hitting the planes. After that, it's mostly a farming technique in older zones.

Aggro kiting is, essentially, keeping a snared (hopefully) mob chasing you, while you DoT it, and let your pet swing at it from behind. There's several variations to aggro kiting, depending on play style and where you're hunting. Most commonly used is straight-line, and circle. Typically, unless you're feeling adventuresome, you'll want to avoid summoning mobs; then you get into another variation, summon kiting. The feasibility of summon kiting is mostly dependant on how frequently the mob summons, how hard they hit, and how well you're dressed.

At the point in the game that you're at, any of the above techniques will work for you. Just be aware that 2 of the 3 are not really viable options to use throughout the rest of your soloing career.

[Mallakith]

DOnt completely disregard tap tanking it gets you out of holes but mid 30's to mid 50's I found fear kiting was the way I chose... nothing quite like pulling a mob doting it then sitting down and watching it die ;-)

These days theres far more choice in what to hit tho (i was 60 when PoP came out) and so a combination depending on where you are is generally the way to go.

For instance I was kiting in Harbingers Spire (these damn slugworms) and pulled a named that summoned, Hit for 300's (not huge).

I could have chain pet tanked him but it used less mana to let the pet get wailed till i had my dots stacked then tap tank... with crits and crit heals its easy enough to stay ahead (but scary as hell the first time you try it on a mob lol)

[Xelgadis]

Agreed, often times that's another approach that I take. Just depends on the situation mainly.

[Necromega]

Viable for xp?

It really depends on your level of "Viable". You will notice through out you career as a necromancer that you will have certain peaks and valleys. Some points in your progression you will be more vulnerable due to missing that next spell set, IE lvl 38. If you are a solo only necro you are going to have a much better hunt using the bread and butter(fear, aggro, or yoyo). This does not mean you cannot tank tap however you would be hard pressed to find the right selection of mobs. The better experience giving mobs are going to hit harder and be better suited on the end of your kite.

This certainly doesnt mean you should not you should not melee. Unless of course you need to med between your casting. You need those defense skills and if you like to melee you are going to need the offensive skills. You dont want to be 65 with a skill of 25 defense and hitting mobs for a whole 2 points of dmg. You will eventually have lich running all the time. Lich will be chewing away at those HPs. Dont forget you have a spell that gives your attacks a lifetap proc. The higher your level the more its going to tap for. With AAs your life tap procs will crit. While it is not a massive heal it is nice. Not to mention you can get life tap augs for your weapons.

I am a very avid supporter of the melee nec. Later on you will not be able to sit, and dont even think that because you just FD you are going to be able to sit now. That may work in some zones but when you get to more dangerous content and try it you are going to be naked in pok waiting for the click stick. I have great tanks and see no reason to be standing 50 feet away after I have already stacked my dots. I can be right on that mobs back geting some mana free taps while also adding to our already insane dps. Of course like everything else there is always an exception to the rule. Dont run up and smack a mob that has a nasty AE or that is going to rampage on you lol.

I also decide to test out Trudats reply.
Zone: Wall Of Slaughter
Mob: Bazu Destroyer level 71

I had up Force shield, conviction, and ranger attack buffs. This was NOT solo. Again I am not sure if your post is regarding solo or grouping. Group was composed of 2 necros, a ranger, chanter and a cleric. I led off with my duration tap then applied a few other dots before tapping. I was not once in trouble during the fight. I also ended the battle at 37 mana. I can also state that the majority of the work was done by the cleric. In no way could I have solo'd the mob.

Can a necro solo a Bazu Deatroyer using tank tapping? I do not know, it will take a better necro to test that.
Was me tanking the named effecient? Not In the slightest as it did run my mana low and I do not have the mitigation/hps/ac of a true tank.
Viable for XP? Again this is dependant per zone. In any of the newer high level places(GoD,OoW) I would say no. Kunark stuff? I would say yes. However I must say that I never tank DB+mobs without a cleric.

So to answer the question "viable for experience", I am going to say no. Not because it cannot be done but rather because it is not efficient.

[Xelgadis]

This is basically a given, in the equation, but gear does play a huge role in determining whether you can "tank" in a given zone. Gear, combined with what content you're trying to kill. Self-buffed; I have 7.4k HP and 9.1k mana, and I certainly won't even try to tank in some of the areas I have access to, it's just not feasable that I'd even remotely survive.

Kunark, Velious, Luclin, Ykesha: all of those continents offer mobs that can be easily tap tanked for experience. Planes: beyond Tier 1, it really depends on your gear (not to mention the fact that PoP mobs, more or less, started the trend of trash having a stupidly high ammount of HP compared to mobs of previous expansions [VT trash does too]). GoD and OoW: really depends on the zone, but beyond the first few... no, not really.

Anymore, about the only time I find myself tap tanking regularly is in areas where I'm farming for tribute or alt gear and I'm too impatient to watch my pet slowly chop the mob down. Send in pet, few DoTs, get summoned (usually; with my luck, and some of the mobs I kill), and have at it.

[Jebasiz]

Tap tanking, even when you can, after level 40 or so..is your least efficient way of killing a mob. If your well-dressed and gonna kill gorenaire solo, fine. If you want aa's in sol ro tower..you should atleast bring a slower, preferbly a shaman since they can heal too. I wouldn't recommend exping that way, your just creating downtime for yourself (unless you in like, veksar..if anyone still hunts there even).

I wouldn't abandon it as a tactic, because you will use it later on..(I've tapped tank mpg after the tank dies..and even summon kited named there solo) It's not my first choice on how to spend my time, a group is definetly more efficient..and less of a PITA.

Nice log xel...and did you really cast a poison DD while tap tanking? I don't have patience enough for those cast times.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jan 19 2005, 03:40 PM
Nice log xel...and did you really cast a poison DD while tap tanking? I don't have patience enough for those cast times.
Nah, was the level 70 poison DoT. The focus on Xxeric's Warbraid was changed from being 45% poison DD to 40% poison DD/DoT. The cast time on the poison DD line is too crappy for the damage (not to mention the 0 adjust on the resist check) for me to keep it up most times as a frontline spell.

[Jebasiz]

Ahh so it's the same effect as the stained thread-bare cape now?
The focus threw me, and ya I agree..lack of resist mod + casting time makes that line all but useless.

[Felicite]

As far as I can tell, all the Omens foci that effect a single spell line (Magic, Fire, Posion) *all* effect Direct Damage and Over Time equally.

All the Gates and prior ones (that I know about.. "all" begs you to tell me the expection.. so "most"?) included "Limit(Instant)" or "Limit(Minimum Duration x)" type language.

It's a subtle but huge change.

[Xelgadis]

Yeah, Discordant Magic (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4865&source=Live) and Discordant Energy (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4869&source=Live), for example, were your two 45% Magic foci for DD and DoT respectively. I do like that they combined the focus types in OoW, makes it less of a hassle overall.

My only gripe is the extremely limited selection of the higher end focus items. I've had an opportunity to upgrade my mask, but that focus is very hard for me to give up. Same with my range, unless I had another item to take over for Magic based spells, that's another slot that I'll be hard pressed to upgrade for a good long time.

I certainly don't want the 40% magic robe from the King in Riftseekers... that has the Robe of the Oracle graphic that makes me want to vomit. I'll just run around with the skull on my ass for now (Robe of the Kedge graphic).. I only have 3 robe that have that graphic :P (Nolaen's, Thurgadin, and Ornate [gathering dust in the bank]).

Nevermind that good Chest slot items haven't been overly common during the last few expansions. As far as Nec robes go.. PoP had one: Miragul's Shroud of Risen Souls (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=47653), GoD had two: Robe of Destruction (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=68782) and Nolaen's Lifereaper Robe (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=68990) (focus isn't listed in the link, but it's Discordant Venom (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4866&source=Live)). Then there's also two in OoW. There's far more than enough primary and/or secondary items in the game, but not much for several other slots, which is annoying in it's own right (as far as trying to get HPs/Mana goes).

[Xelgadis]

As far as Tkarish's and Tacvi's loot tables go, just about everything saw changes with the patch last month. Some HP/Mana mostly, some mod changes on some, and the foci got changed to be the 2nd highest OoW focus of that type, which was a much needed change in several cases. I always did get a laugh out of the fact that the old focus on the Blackstone Figurine (because of class restriction on the item, and the fact that it was the only item in the game with that focus) was good for one spell only: Gangrenous Touch of Zum'uul (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1393&source=Live) hah. God knows that's a spell that I keep memmed often.

At least the Tacvi class weapons saw a much needed change: the Dagger of Death's recast changed from 10 minutes to 2 minutes. So now I remember to use it frequently, not like before where I'd use it once then forget about it for the next half hour or so.