Demi Lich vs Arch Lich

[Moghedan]

I have just started playing a necro but know a good deal about the class, so i started to look out for future spells in bazaar and other sources. After talking with a lvl 65 necro friend of mine, i am now wondering if getting arch-lich is really worth the cost/effort especially if the information i have is correct. Arch is the first and only spectre form, both demi lich before and SoS after dont use this model. Spectre form doesnt seem to work on a mount as sony doesnt have a mounted spectre model on file. However after talking with my friend, it seems that you actually regenerate your mana FASTER while using demi lich while mounted as opposed to using arch lich. I trust my friend but i do always like to get a double check even so, so can anyone here confirm it as my necro isnt high enough for me to measure an accurate meditate regen rate stacked with a lich line. I do know you would have to use arch lich indoor as mounts dont work there, but if in fact demi+horse/lizard is better regen, it could really prove to be beneficial to know.

[Doomfir]

Use Demi Lich outside if you have a mount and Arch lich inside. Unless you just want the spectre look. :-) There is very little conversion difference and with the added bonus of being able to use on a mount, demi lich is better in outdoor situations since you are sit liching on a mount even when you are casting.

[Jebasiz]

I don't think Demi can replace arch lich and even outside with a mount. If you've ever tried to kite while on a horse or lizard you'll know why. It may be better mana regen then but the acceleration/deceleration make it almost impossible to kite on a mount. The are times where you can use elevations and other things to make it feasible...but it's alot more work then i'd want to put into kiting for exp. Arch lich is very nice, there's no movement penalty(like that of the mount) and after lich it's a huge upgrade in mana regen. I usually tell friends and other necromancers that ask me as they level, if you can aquire demi-lich inexpensively go for it, and use the hell out of it, but I wouldn't go spending money on that when there are other spells that there are definetly no upgrades to, or gear upgrades(for that matter) that WILL definetly make you more powerfull for a long long time.

Consider typical pricing(on my server anyway):
demi-lich 6-10k
arch lich 100-250pp
seduction of saryrn- 15-20k
It's your money spend it however you'd like.


Jeb

[Xavier]

Personally the only thing Ive found mounts good for besides travel is groups and raids. Reason being. The mana regen compaired to hp loss is a great reason to use mounts during raids. Exspecially during AE mobs. And a mount prevents sitting agro. Not that you should have to worry about it since the tanks have agro. But sometimes the tank dies and wham! Instant sitting agro. Like I said it shouldnt happen. But hey sh!t happens. It also depends on gear and hp's, buffed and unbuffed. The best thing for this is wait till you have it and test for yourself. Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one. That doesnt make them right.

[Sinadar]

In PoV ( RCY ) I was in a group with a decent tank but every time I sat I got aggro. Switched to lizard and Demi no more aggro. That one time alone ( not to mention all the use I got before 60 ) made it worth every PP.

[Tiwaz]

Yeah I would agree with staying with demi for using a mount. Basically what I am trying to stick to is arch lich inside or while kiting and demi while in a group (and not kiting). I really do not want to be caught sitting while in POV.

Btw, this is my first post here so hi everyone. I usually talk (often complain about warping) on the channel in game. I will try and start posting here some with whatever useful information I uncover.

[Jebasiz]

This may sound stupid, but why are you sitting grouped. It's probably for mana, but what would cause you to *need* to sit while grouped in pov? Arch lich was more then enough mana regen IIRC.

Jeb

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jan 12 2004, 10:21 AM
This may sound stupid, but why are you sitting grouped. It's probably for mana, but what would cause you to *need* to sit while grouped in pov? Arch lich was more then enough mana regen IIRC.

Jeb
Right but i think the whole point was to save on the HP depletion of Arch Lich by sitting on a mount and using Demi. If the mana regen of arch standing is the same as Demi sitting, save yourself some HP's by using Demi and not having to tap as much, therefore saving mana for higher damaging spells.

[Jebasiz]

hehe, I was using SK for damage at that point...So hps weren't really an issue either, but eh...I guess.

Jeb

[Doomfir]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jan 12 2004, 02:21 PM
This may sound stupid, but why are you sitting grouped.* It's probably for mana, but what would cause you to *need* to sit while grouped in pov?* Arch lich was more then enough mana regen IIRC.

Jeb

Jeb:
You must not have added much dmg to you group? Sk at best with BA4 does about 265 or so a tick. Pretty worthless for an uber Necro.

It must have been a long time ago since you didnt have FT items. I use two dots in a group while there; FPoK and BoT (600 - 650 dmg a tick). If I wasn't sitting on my horse I would slowly deplete my mana over multiple mobs, Anything less than fm means you are burning more mana than you are creating. Soo.. for the vast majority of people, they need to sit to make up the dmg. Horses or drogmoors allow us to med while still casting, moving, etc.. while not gaining agro. Pretty simple to understand.

Just like if YOU would sit, not matter HOW good your mana production is, you could always create more. If you create more, you got more to DoT with. Using two dots now? then load a 3rd, got a 3rd? Load a 4rth.. etc.. ad nauseum.

Now that I am using Seduction of Saryn it is the best of both worlds.

Be helpful in the forum bro and don't add "this is what I do just cause I can". It doesn't help anyone.

[Jebasiz]

Doomfir,
Sometimes I wonder if we're even playing the same game. At a rough guess if I'm grouping for exp 90% of the time I'm pulling, not sitting on my drogmar. With arch lich and now seduction even without ft items my mana was always sufficient. The DPS I added then and now is/was/ and always will be adequate. Posts like "sit on your mount and dot" don't help either. Put four dots on any mob you exp on and your gonna get alot of attention. Also you can't FD on a mount(it disapears), they're not exactly quick casts. If you *have* to sit, fd, hit stand, and then sit again, (tip...ctrl+s works too). Pulling in an exp group *should* be way to time consuming for a necro with arch lich or SoS to even worry about running LoM/OOM, nevermind actually having it happen. Chances are while your dotting your mob 2-3(even 4 times, as you've indicated) you could be going out and finding another mob for your group to kill.

Thx for you advice though, k.

Jeb

BTW...BoT wasn't really available when I grouped frequently in PoV, and horror didn't exist. Once again, thanks for you contribution.

[Doomfir]

If you are pulling you are correct. I was not under the assumption that the necro was the puller in the comment. In just talking a group situation where we are not doing the pulling but a ranger / monk / other is pulling we are the ones providing the dps. In that situation we will dot 2 - 3 dots pet mob. I have done more depending on the how good the tank can hold agro. Warriors suck and I get two in at most. A good pally or SK and I can almost DoT to my hearts content. As in my case it is FPoK and BoT. Before I used FPoK and EB or DP. I only used VM or SK when I wanted A) to add more dps and B) needed to replenish my hps from lich damage.

Comment well taken. If you are puller yeah.. you will be fm all the time no doubt. I think though in relation to the topic we are talking about being dps and not pulling which is another topic altogether.

I will say though I have pulled on my horse as well. Yep it can be done just fine if you have a fast horse. I dont particularly like it more for the slow stopping than the slow starting but it is certainly doable. When I do pull I go from 1rst person view to 3rd person long range (F9 4 times) once I get into the open so I know how far the mob is behind me at all times, and since I am on a chain horse I actually go as fast in the same period of time as someone with R3 or possibly SoW. It isnt apparent you just have to measure it in distance and time and a chain horse actually gets going pretty fast.

[Mortifa]

I just regisitered here and i must say this is a great forum. I never really saw the need to get demi lich, now i see why people wanted it soo bad. i looked forward to searching this site some more good hunting.