Rusty weapon for my pet or not?

[zoso]

lvl 10 very noob Necro. In my very limited testing, my pet seems to hit just as hard with his hands as with the rusty weapons I'm finding. Should I just sell them then? What weapons should I look for that will be help him hit better as the mobs get harder and the loot gets better?

[Umbrello]

Rusty scythes and 2hs seem to do well at low levels. Basically rusty weapons wont help much, they just look cool on your pet when he can dual wield them. Its only at higher levels when you can get weapons with procs/effects on them that they really help as far as i know. Mage summoned weapons with procs are nice.

[Doomfir]

do NOT use rusty weapons on your pet. They are NON magic first of all, which means your pet will NOT be able to hit certain magical creatures like willowisps. Second of all the pet does NOT use the weapons in a real sence. He will hit just as hard with or without them and since they have no proc and no stats they are useless.

The ONLY time you might equip your pet with a non proc weapon is when you get to level 44 and you want your pet to dual weild. The 44 pet does not automatically dual wield and has to have two weapons in order to do it. After you get your 49 warrior pet (Invoke Death), they will automatically dual wield without having to "prompt" him with weapons.

After you get the spectre pets you have another issue and that is, no matter WHAT weapon you put on your pet, you no longer see it. People ranted about wanting a spectre pet for the upper level pets, but personally I liked the skele pets better. When you put weapons on the skele pets you could see what weapons they have. With spectres you cant see any weapons.

[Ebonstar]

Second of all the pet does NOT use the weapons in a real sence. He will hit just as hard with or without them and since they have no proc and no stats they are useless

AFAIK, the pet's dmg is equal to it's innate dmg (see here (http://necro.eqclasses.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=8740)) or twice the weapons dmg, whichever is higher.

So, using a rusty dagger won't help you, but large weapons with bigger dmgs can. I've seen low level pets hitting for 40s and 50s when equipped with big weapons. Delay is not affected, so don't worry that they are slow weapons.

However, I totally agree with Doomfir about the pitfalls of using non-magic weapons, and the use for dual-wielding.

[Doomfir]

So, using a rusty dagger won't help you, but large weapons with bigger dmgs can. I've seen low level pets hitting for 40s and 50s when equipped with big weapons.

I have yet to find this true ebonstar. The most obviously tried exmple for ease is a weighted axe. It has a 45 dmg stat so would be good as a try. It however does NOT make my pet hit any harder than it's innate ability. Does anyone have any examples of weapons that DO make it higher? I would like to test this.

[Slitherclaw]

I don't think the fact that weapons aren't magical won't stop the pet from harming magical creatures such as wisps and such at least that hasn't been my experience once my pet gained the ablity to harm such beasts.

Slitherclaw

51 Iksar Necromancer

[Salizarr]

Weapons DO help increase pet damage in this way:

If the weapon innate damage (like that axe with 45 damage) is greater than the pet's innate damage (let's say, level 1 pet, damage 10) it will double the pet's innate damage, thus, the level 1 pet wielding an axe that has 45 damage will hit for 20 at max. If the weapons has procs and the pet has level to proc them, they will. The delay doesn't seem to affect your pet's attack speed.
So giving a rusty dagger to your pet at level 1 won't help it in any way (unless it has a proc) but giving it a two-handed sword will help it.

The ONLY time you might equip your pet with a non proc weapon is when you get to level 44 and you want your pet to dual weild. The 44 pet does not automatically dual wield and has to have two weapons in order to do it. After you get your 49 warrior pet (Invoke Death), they will automatically dual wield without having to "prompt" him with weapons.
It's actually the level 29 pet that gets dual wield but doesn't automatically use their hads, it must be given weapons. The level 34 pet automatically dual wield with its hands.

I am not 100% sure on this one, but i will check when i have time. I think that level 16 below cannot harm magical creatures such as wisps with their bare hands, they must be given magical weapons. From 16 above they will hit them normally.

Sal

[Doomfir]

I don't think the fact that weapons aren't magical won't stop the pet from harming magical creatures such as wisps and such at least that hasn't been my experience once my pet gained the ablity to harm such beasts.


This is incorrect. You must not have put a non magical weapon in the hands of your pet against a magical creature. That is the WHOLE purpose of each weapons listing as whether it is magical or not. You will get a message when you try to attack a magical creature with a non-magical weapon that the thing you are attacking is invulnerable. If you have a level 61 LoZ pet and give him NON magical weapons and sick him on a level 12 willowwisp, the willowwisp will eventually kick his ass. lol.

Make sure what you put in the hands of your pet!

It's actually the level 29 pet that gets dual wield but doesn't automatically use their hads, it must be given weapons. The level 34 pet automatically dual wield with its hands.

This is incorrect. The pets do not get dual weild till level 44 and that with a prompt. You must be thinking double attack. They do NOT get dual weild till 44.

[Salizarr]

*
It's actually the level 29 pet that gets dual wield but doesn't automatically use their hads, it must be given weapons. The level 34 pet automatically dual wield with its hands.



This is incorrect. The pets do not get dual weild till level 44 and that with a prompt. You must be thinking double attack. They do NOT get dual weild till 44.
This is incorrect.

Do some research and testing before you come and tell someone they are incorrect if you yourself didn't test it or looked for the information. Don't assume you know something and please don't share that assumed information unless you state that you are not sure, like everyone else does.

Cast the level 29 pet spell, give it two weapons. Cast the level 34 pet and give it no weapons. You will see for yourself. My pet does that. It's a pitty if yours doesn't :(

You can also find this information on other sites:

Follow the links:

EQ Necro (http://necro.eqclasses.com/guides/pets.asp)
How to play a necromancer - pet guide (http://www.terra.es/personal2/eqnecro/Pet%20guide.htm)
Caster Realm - Summon Dead - level 29 spell (http://eq.crgaming.com/spells/spell.asp?Id=439)

Please get to know the class you play.

Sal

[Doomfir]

Sal, I don't give a crap what casters realm has to say about it. Both CR AND Alakhazam are full of shite about our pets. For example they say that LoZ is 61.. he is not. He is 60. As well as a host of other crap. I don't need to look up anything on either site with our pets because I have used and tested most of them. Can I be wrong? Sure..

The info on the screen also doesnt mean squat as he hits unless you see FOUR rounds of attacks PER attack sequence then your pet isnt doing both. I will test it tonight and see what does what and when. Until then I reserve my judgement. If they actually dual wield sooner I will find out. I remember my 44 was the first one that did a full round of 4 atks, but I am old and my memory sux sometimes. We shall see.

[Salizarr]

I know there are load of crappy information around the net, i /agree with you on this.
However if you search for this info, all of them will have the same information. Do I trust them? I might, but i snicker a bit. So i go and test it myself.

Double attack has a % of getting of, so even if your pet has dual wield and double attack, it will not dish out 4 attacks every round.

If you still have the level 29 pet spell, Summon Dead, cast it and give your pet two one-hand weapons and it will dual wield. I have been doing this since level 29 with my necro. At level 34 however, you no longer need to give it weapons, it will dual wield with its hands.

Of course, we all make mistakes and we all have said or given wrong information at some point. I didn't mean to jump on your throat on that post, but sometimes, the way you express yourself helps soothe things you're trying to prove, specially if you are not 100% sure of what you're talking...

Sal

[NeSikWay]

Salizarr is correct, pets get double attact at lvl 20, and duel wield at 29, but dont' make use of the duel wield unless given weapons, at 34 it will duel wield whether or not you give him weapons.

At lvl 12 they are given magical attack, and I never noticed that when I gave my pet a weapon that this still didn't hold true. (i.e. he could still attack and kill magical creatures) I also often gave my pet mage daggers, now although there was no damage increase, I did notice that max damage was more often achived.

There have also ben several threads on good weapons for pets, the stun whips from splitpaw, I like the velium weapons that drop off giants with a nice proc. Mage high lvl summomed weapons and haste are really nice. if anyone else has a good suggestions please let me know. I'll add some notes about pets to my document, but the research I did shows what Salizarr has told us is correct.

[drewz21]

Good information and good discussion all. I'm a 37 Necro and I've been buying cheap weapons for my pets since I first read about them dual-weidling at 29. I really thought that delay mattered more than damage because I thought a pets max damage was set.

I've been buying cheap 7/23 swords for about 3 plat off vendors at the adventurer's camps. Sounds like I may have been wasting my money. I do watch for gnoll-hide lariats and pick them up when cheap for the stun proc. I won't use them in a LDoN dungeon but I am saving them for when I'm soloing for a while. Even cheap I've not found them under 20pp.

Another question along this line though is weapons that have stats on them. I assume that my pet would get the stat boosts if the weapon has them.
Also on the question of procs. Is it the pets level that controls the proc or the Necro's level?

I appreciate all the testing that some of you have done. It really helps me to get the most out of my Necro.

Although this is not my main character, it's the most fun I've had with a character in a while! :)

Thanks all and good hunting!

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=860836

[Fizzleplink]

It's the level of the pet that determines whether the weapon will proc for him/her/it.

Also, it was my level 12 pet - Convoke Shadow - that was first able to beat up on will o' wisps.

My level 29 pet - Summon Dead - could dual wield when gifted with a pair of rusty daggers. He was able to chew up wisps fairly regularly with them. Never had other's hits turned on, so I dunno whether he just kicked them into submission or his magical essence was strong enough to imbue his decidedly non-magical weapons.

[Doomfir]

Well, when I get home I will try them with and without and see. As for 4 atks, it is what defines dual wield and double attack. 1 (single weapon) +1 (dual weapon) X 1 single attack / x 2 double attack. (1+1) X 1 = 2 attacks per round, (1+1) x 2 = 4 attacks per round.

4 attacks are possible with a dual wielding pet who double attacks on the server check. If the pet does not do this EVER then he is not dual wielding / double attack. The server check tests both those conditions before it registers up to 4 attacks. The higher the level pet the higher the weighting check for both those conditions to be met. A LoZ and CoB both are the same level and have about the same success rate in the server checks; just LoZ has fewer hitpoints, and no DS. He might also have a lower innate AC rating and str (this I do not know).

Fiz:
I am going to have disagree that you ever gave any level pet a rusty dagger and took on willowwisps (though our upper level pets also bash / kick and that alone should be enough to kill low level willows). Rusty daggers are non magic weapons. I don't mean procing weapons.. I mean MAGIC. Dagger (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=595) . It MUST be classified as a magic weapon in order to hit magic creatures (fortunately this is 99% of the weapons in the game - Rusty and Fine Steel are about the only non magic weapons I know of). ALLOT of creatures are not magic and can get hit with a rusty dagger (bears, people, etc.., but many creatures are magic and need magic weapons. So... Unless they changed the willowisp creature to a non magic creature a very short time ago, you could not use a rusty weapon on your pet to any avail on one. It doesn't matter the level of the pet either. Putting a rusty dagger in the hands of your pet is a sure way to get your butt kicked by a green mob.

[Schaeffer]

Doom is right, non magic weapons will not hit a magical creature. Try attacking a ghoul in Oasis with a rusty dagger, it won't hit. Kick for a melee won't work either unless you have magic boots on. Goner in and of himself is magic so with no weapons, he will hit. Basically any weapon with a stat boost or effect, besides AC, is magic. You can tell because it says MAGIC ITEM, at the top right where it says LORE or NO DROP if that is the case as well.

[Tomandny]

I havn't done any research on this, but if I remember correctly;
I never once had any trouble with my pet not hitting wisps, even with rusty gear.
It is my belief that a PC cannot hit a magical char w/o magic gear, but from my experience my pet has always done so. I have killed a lot of wisps as a young'n and I think something like my pet not registering hits I would have noticed.

I may be totally wrong on this, but I also think I would have noticed at the same time. It definately will be interesting to see for myself.

[Slitherclaw]

Try it yourself give level 12 pet rusty daggers and send him after wisp. I'm telling you from experience doesn't matter what weapon you give your pet he will be able to attack magical creatures with rusty weapons in his hands as long as he's capable of doing magical damage. I've done it since my pet has been able to do magical damage I've always given him rusty weapons.

Slitherclaw

51 Iksar Necromancer

[Doomfir]

I will try it this evening if I just dont go right into Veksar like I did last night. I have always been under the assumption that pets responded with weapons the same way players do when is came to the magic classification. Though it still should remain stated, that you gain nothing when using Rusty weapons over his own innate abilities / dmg vs the potential for allot worse to happen.

[Tomandny]

Agreed,
I enjoyed looking at my pet w/ weapons. Even if they don't really "help". Especially at the levels in question. Looking back, if I'd had been so anal about all the damage with or without and for every hit, I believe I would be way too stressed now to enjoy the game at a higher level.
Just find a yellow/white/dblue and kill it, that was my mentality :D
God knows I pulled many reds, probably way to hard for me then, but I tried sure enough and I loved every minute of it.