AA thoughts?

[Saetanis]

When I was playing my necro a few years back, I got Run3 in my 50s. I just dinged 65 in HoH and was considering doing a bit of AA grind while HoH is still 6% an easy kill....

Everybody says levels > AAs to which I also agree, however - I'm just going to get a few. Maybe 10 or so... I've never even thought or looked at what to get - and nowdays, there are so many, Christ - I don't even know where to begin. I've read a few places that Metabolism is better than Regen3. Since I always have a Shammy by my side, I think I'll go with that one. But after that, I have no idea...

Any thoughts?

- Saetanis

[Sarnath Creed]

Not too sure how relavent my situation is to yours, but i would suggest a few aa's.

I see people all the time make that argument that levels > aa's. but i have found it a little different.

I have been getting like 15-25% of the level i am in, and then getting 50-100% of an aa. then leveling, then an aa. did this through the end of 55, and half way into 56 so far. got regen3, run2, and stamina1 (dont ask, thought it was a good idea at the time.). Now that i have my 6aa's in general, i am gonna go for that 9th spell slot, and probably by the time i hit 57, i should have, or be pretty close to ND1.

I would suggest that you look through the aa's and see what is available that would make your getting higher levels that much easier. at 6% a kill, you should be able to bang through a dozen aa's in a short period of time, and then you would be more effective in your leveling practices.

Or i could be totally off the mark :)

2cp

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Saetanis@Jun 18 2005, 02:23 PM
I've read a few places that Metabolism is better than Regen3.
I don't know why someone would say that. Metabolism is a low, low priority imo - the best it does is save you a few pp if you are using stat food and lazy about force feeding yourself. And when I say a few pp... I mean a few pp. After all, misty thickets are available for 5pp or less and last a loooong time as it is.

*shrug* apart from Run3 all the General AA suck though anyway, it doesn't make any difference in the long run.

[richardrahll]

I got run 3 and regen 3 at 51 and didn't regret it. I can never have too much regen.

First aa to get of the level 55 aa's oughtta be the OOW aa that gets you an extra spell gem. Haven't run into a necro yet that didn't need to have 9 spells ready to cast at a time instead of 8. After that, i think you get a lot of bang for your buck by working on Spell Casting Mastery, cause it reduces the Mana Cost of your casts.

I worked on aa's at any given level till I had the spells for the next level, and then switched to exp. Seemed like a reasonable approach at the time to what is really an arbitrary decision and different for lotsa people.

At 65 you'll also get a lotta bang for the buck on Critical Affliction. At least i love it.

[chabeksis]

Tons of threads on this but I will share the path that I decided upon after reading a lot about it.

Get regen3, it is nice to have even with a shm around. After that I would suggest getting SCM3 ASAP. This will save you about 10% of your mana, this is a huge upgrade. After that I would suggest getting to 66 and getting Death Peace AA. Essentially this is the best FD for a nec (saves mana, and you don't have to wait for your spell gem to refreesh). It also has the additional benefit of freeing up a spell gem.

Then I would get to 67 immediately and get Critical Affliction. The 67 spells are such a huge upgrade that you have to experience it to believe it. The new lifetap, Dark Nightmare, and the new pet are simply awesome. At that point get Critical Afflcition, this is the best AA for increasing DPS IMO.

I can't help past that because I am 67 with 51 AAs, still banging through CA myself. Good luck, and remember to have fun with your AAs, that is the point.

[Darkeeyes]

This topic is like a opinion everyone has one and there all different. The best thing to do is read all you can here as there is some awesome advice (THANKS EVERYONE) and form what will suit you best.

Myself after hitting 51 and not knowing any better (had not found this site and unguilded at the time) did 50/50 and got Innate Intelligence 1 and metabolism 1, don't ask why LOL. After reading up on this site I Leveled to 55 then went 70% AA and 30 Xp only because I felt I needed certain AA's to continue leveling effectively.

I picked up Reg.3 , Run3 , SCM3 , SCF 1 only because I clicked wrong one but it's fun to see a DD crit now and then and the 9th spell gem when I hit 58 this one because I was saying to myself (wish I had this or that loaded) Ding bell goes off in my head (you dummy get the OOW 9th spell gem). Now I'm doing Demi-Lich cap (God I'm sick of killing Greenys) Then I'll most likely go a 20 AA / 80 Xp split from then on unless I have to stop for spell then I'll do 100% AA's until I have that Levels spells.

So long story short Read as much as you can and then do what you feel will help you the most.

Mistress Darkeeyes Whitelies (Come on 8th cap :) )

[trikanosis]

metabolism is not a waste of aa's. I got it early and I like it. A stack of pies lasts me weeks upon weeks. I make my oen pies and when your on a mount trust me that aa helps alot. Yea food is cheap, but the less times I gotta go buy or farm the stuff to make it the better. It's only 3 aa. you can get that in a few hours. Burn the exp aa and get that in 2 Don missions.

I really didn't start aa full steam till I hit 70. I did get a few in NC while you could still get 6% or so a kill off murks. I got most of the basic ones then. I'd say round 30 or so. Then I leveled up to 70. Now the aa's come fast. I am working on getting more. I'm at 117 and have a long way to go.

[TrikanosisTP]

oops wrong login in on last post :D

[Jebasiz]

Death Peace.
extra spell gem.
SCM
Critical affliction

[sasiz]

I did AA's at a couple of levels 65, 67 and currently doing 90/10 split till I get to lvl 70.

Run3 at 51

Reg3
SCM3
CA3 --> this is the best order up to here IMHO
PetHold --> Started Raiding. If you raid you need this asap
CombatAgility3 (I did Combat Stability here by mistake)
SCF3
ND3
CombatStability3
(some people feel they need more spell slots. If so do these earlier)
Memonic Retention
Death Peace
Those would be my first in that order
---------------------------------------------------
My next list
Theft of Life
Crit DoT line.
Crti DD line
Lighting reflexes
Suspend Minion
Pet Damage lines.

-----------------------------------------------------
Possilby I will do AOD/Swarm of Death. Depends on raid needs.

[Xislaben]

I just bought death peace because some here had spoken so highly of it, and wow I should have gotten this earlier. It really changes the way I play. Now I can load up as many dots on a mob as I'd like even with a crappy agro-holding tank without having to worry about getting agro, because with a hotkey for the dp aa and a sit button I can feign between every cast if I want to.

I went with requirements and what would give me the most dps/survivability. Since I'm not nearly to the point of tap tanking mobs that drops really useful stuff, like muramite runes, I'm maxing out the dps/tol stuff, then the defensives. I know this may sound kind of snobbish, but with the crit lines and ae4 and scm3 it's almost a drag grouping with people when you're going for aaxp, as it comes faster soloing 90% of the time. Sure if you get a time geared group at the ass camp or 6way it's nice and fast, but that does not happen too often for me.

Run3
Regen3
SCM3
CA2 (lvl65, best dps boost for your aa)
Pet Dis1 (lvl 59, needed for bringing pet on raids)
DP (lvl66)
SCF1 (lvl 55, next best dps boost, and who dots trash on raids?)
ToL1 (lvl 63)

I just got SCF1 and ToL1 last night, no crits for me yet :( But get death peace, it's so indescribably lovely. I'll get ND3 eventually, but at 3289 unbuffed I don't really desperately need the extra hp as long as I take care to avoid being hit.

[Rijak]

if i had it to do over again, i wouldn't get a single AA 'till L65... then:

essentials:
run3 (3)
regen3 (3)
scm3 (12)
pethold (6)
ca3 (18)
tol3 (6)

convenience/fun:
mr (3)
scf1 (2)
iivu (3)

initial defensives:
ca3 (12)
lr5 (15)
cs3 (12)
id5 (15)

(110 AAs total)

then L66, death peace AA (5), L67, ica3 (18)

[Saetanis]

So - I banged out a 'quick' 6 AAs in HoH.

Since I'm typically soloing or being PL'd by my Shammy bot, I chose to go w/ CA1 as my first 3 points spent. It's a little disappointing, but I didn't seen any crit messages. I double checked all my filters and windows - but nothing was coming through, so I don't know how effective it was... Any thoughts?

Secondly, as my General points - I have Chloro all the time, so I wasn't into the regen. Also, metabolism didn't see much of a gain for me - so I pumped up my DR as it is my lowest resist... Call me foolish, maybe it's my old SZ mentality...

SCM next,
and some more CA (if it is working!!)

- Saetanis

[Rijak]

CA doesn't give you DD-type crit messages, but if you watch you DoT ticks, you'll get spikes here and there... pretty frequent with CA2, which is where i'm at atm

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Saetanis@Jun 21 2005, 01:51 PM
Since I'm typically soloing or being PL'd by my Shammy bot, I chose to go w/ CA1 as my first 3 points spent. It's a little disappointing, but I didn't seen any crit messages. I double checked all my filters and windows - but nothing was coming through, so I don't know how effective it was... Any thoughts?
http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=3229&hl=crit

Search Ninja :ph34r:

You do not get a "critical blast" type message, your DoTs just quietly do double:

[Fri Jan 07 22:18:28 2005] You begin casting Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:31 2005] Nathyn Illuminious's mind is consumed in dark nightmares.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:31 2005] Your Crown of Ambivalence sparkles.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:36 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 721 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:42 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 732 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:48 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 656 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:18:53 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 1192 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:19:00 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 732 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:19:06 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 608 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:19:12 2005] Nathyn Illuminious has taken 1252 damage from your Dark Nightmare.
[Fri Jan 07 22:19:12 2005] Your Dark Nightmare spell has worn off.

[UsulDaNeriak]

well the discussion about the first 2 aa is pretty senseless. every nec gets these points faster than you can discuss on a board. get whatever you want: run3, regen 3, metabolism.... who cares?

afterwards scm3 is the best for mana efficiency as proven 1000 times.

then death peace aa and the ninth spell slot is a must have.

and if you go the offensive way, looking to your dps, critical affliction was calculated again more than once and proven as the most efficient aa in terms of dps per aa point spent.

well, and the rest is up to you. i did ask my pet, and Jabober was always right, when i was chatting with him after 12h online sitting at 5 am in the middle of nowhere waiting for this damn mob to spawn.

Usul

[Saetanis]

/bow Felicite

Aye - point taken RE: Search Ninja...

But I traded in my Monk for my Necro to play as my main again - you'll have to grant me a few foolish mistakes, eh?

And thanks to all for your truly valuable input into growing my character. You have no idea how much I rely on your invaluable guidance, wisdom, and collective experience.

Warm Regards,

- Saetanis

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Saetanis@Jun 22 2005, 08:15 AM
/bow Felicite

Aye - point taken RE: Search Ninja...

But I traded in my Monk for my Necro to play as my main again - you'll have to grant me a few foolish mistakes, eh?

And thanks to all for your truly valuable input into growing my character. You have no idea how much I rely on your invaluable guidance, wisdom, and collective experience.

Warm Regards,

- Saetanis
No.. I was shamelessly patting myself on the back, not implying you "should" of found it.

I like finding things.. I am the Archivist.

I once had a client say in a meeting "we talked about that a few years back". Loved pulling the memo out of my desk (it was over 8 years old) and the semi-stunned looks.

So.. on topic.. you are not the first person to think it wasn't working.. normal reaction. And it works a lot. That was one DoT (back when I had CA3). Now with improved CA3.. jeesh.. I hope I don't cast the "good" DoTs on myself (again *blush*).

[Keeleys]

I was going to make my own thread, but hell. I can just babble in someone elses.

I was intending to ding 51 and go 50/50 and just leave it there. My necro is a toy. A disgustingly overtwinked character that I'm playing solo any time my main goes an hour LFG.

I hear again and again and again how levels are more important than AA's, and how new spells increase our power a lot more than new AA's do most of the time. I don't doubt it. It wouldn't come up across so many classes so consistantly if it wasn't true.

However, it's not the point. I'd rather be considered an overpowered level 55 or 60 or 65 due to extra AA's than hit 70 and be grinding the whole time in just a couple of zones.

I don't, at this point, intend to raid. That could easily change.

The point I see come up most often when people ask for AA advice is some version of YMMV or it all depends on your play style. Which is, obviously, quite true. If your play is to blow mana stacking all your dots and kill as much as you can as quickly as possible, then feign and go do housework while you regen back up, mana regen is probably not your first priority.

My intended path, to start with, is this:

Run3
Regen3
SCM3
Mental Clarity 1
Combat Agility 1
Natural Durability 1

I'm not logged in atm, so don't know the level requirements of everything to look further than that. I could easily change my mind. It's just vague ideas.

I love the various threads that explain how to get the most bang for your buck. I figure any AA that lets you kill faster / longer / more will let you get more xp quicker, and thats cool with me.

I am curious though, if any level / camp spot combo is particularly fast xp. I know many things start to give very little xp as you outgrow them. It might be worth stopping somewhere and grinding out extra AA's to avoid outgrowing the camp. If you could get AA's in the 40's I'd have spent a lot longer at the DL skellies just because it was such a simple place to xp.

Anyway, its way too late (early?) and I'm never sure if I'm making sense when I start posting because I can't sleep, so I'll stop now. Laters...

[Rijak]

i'd say that from an AA/time spent soloing point of view, at least L62 is essential 'cause it will get you into HoH... at least an AA an hour, better if you push it, which i can't imagine getting anywhere pre-L62 solo under normal unflagged circumstances (though i could be wrong)

critical affliction is also a real nice boost on the damage end, and it's required L65

for this reason i really wouldn't consider a single AA pre-65 unless you are raiding in your 50s+... then run3/regen3/scm3/pet hold (24 AAs)

the tougher call comes on deciding whether to go to L66 or higher... there are some AAs you can only get at L66+ and spells that make xpin a bit easier... but your AA/hour will probably take a hit, or at best stay the same... and the spells/AAs are not necessarily exponential leaps above those you get at L65 (at least for the light or non-raider... a L70 who has 8k+ hp and all the toys is another story)

[Ankhe]

Originally posted by Keeleys@Jun 24 2005, 02:18 AM
SCM3

Help me out... what does this AA stand for?

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Ankhe+Jun 24 2005, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ankhe @ Jun 24 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Keeleys@Jun 24 2005, 02:18 AM
SCM3

Help me out... what does this AA stand for? [/b][/quote]
spell casting mastery

[Rijak]

spell casting mastery... basically it saves you mana on whatever your specializations are everytime you cast... you also must get 6 general AAs and 12 advanced to do pet discipline... most would agree that scm would be the place to spend the first 12

[Schaeffer]

So, before anyone rips me apart, Keel stated this was an alt he plays for fun and wants to screw around with it, so here's my recommendation based on that:

SCM3 is definitely the way to go after run/regen.


You mentioned getting MC and some defensive AA's after this. If you want this character for fun, and your method of fun is tankage, then go for the defensive AA's. If you just want to up your DPS and go crazy, then stay away from defensive AA's you won't really need them, if you play right, you won't get hit anyways.


MC is kind of a waste IMO. We regen so fast that spending just 2 AA on even 1 mana a tick almost seems like a waste to me, not to mention all the easy to get FT gear out there.

ND3 is worth it to fill the requirement. As someone else already said, it's the gift that keeps on giving, and any necro, regardless of race/gear/playstyle could always benefit from more HP's.

OR you can go the SCF3 route. SCF crits affect the healing portion of your lifetaps too, so they can be clutch in certain situations.

I've also noticed you decided to spread out in the archetype column. I know it seems tedious at times, but your really don't get much benefit from only getting the first level in a series like those. It's worth it IMO to bang out the 12 points, and move to the next one.


Mnemonic Retention for the extra spell slot is definitely the way to go after you fill the Archetype requirements. Think about it, you said:

Originally posted by Keeleys
I love the various threads that explain how to get the most bang for your buck. I figure any AA that lets you kill faster / longer / more will let you get more xp quicker, and thats cool with me.

and nothing will help you do that better than having an extra spell at your fingertips. At first I thought to myself that I didn't really need the extra spell because I was pretty efficient as it was. After much prodding by friends, I decided to get it. The first day I was disappointed because I couldn't figure out what I wanted to put there, then I played with the possibilities, and don't know how I could live without it at this point.


The next thing I would recommend is Pet Discipline at 59. Not having this type of control over my pet after the fact would drive me absolutely insane. It makes Pet Pulling alot easier, and also helps greatly with soloing summoners and when your pet misbehaves on an add.


This list should keep you busy for a while. Nothing else is really worth it that you can get with a requirement under 61.

------------------------------------------------------------------


As far as spots to solo for good AA XP, Veksar comes to mind for the mid 50's. Many folks like Mischief, though I never really spent much time their myself to verify. If you can kite well, Nightmare would be good up to 55 and then Valor caves. Basically, if your starting to AA at 51 on 50/50, any spot that's good XP will give you close to the same AA XP. You won't really see a big difference until you hit the late 50's, which then the possibilities open up a bit, and then they don't narrow too much again until probably 69 or so.

I am in no rush to hit 70 either. I took a break at 55 to finish my General AA requirements. Then again at 61 to get my Archetype requirements. Then again at 64 because I didn't have my 65 spells for a while. At 64 you own things at will. This is where I did my biggest grind. Only when I got Blood of Thule was I happy to ding 65 (this was before level cap increase).

After that, it all depends on spell availablity. No sense in dinging if you don't have any spells available to you that you need/want. Don't ding 66 until you get Chaos Plague/Ackin. Some might even recommend waiting until you get the 67 pet to ding 66, and then just burning through to 67. The only reason I'd stop to AA at 66 would be for the Death Peace AA. Once you ding 67 there's really no rush again, same thing with 68. I'm 68 now, and 70 is far far away in my future.

Hope that helps ;)

[Keeleys]

Thanks Schaeffer.

I'll prolly still get mental clarity, but I can avoid the tanking AA and hop on mnemonic retention before ND. I have 6 mana regen already equipped and 5 more in DoN augs in the bank awaiting a level I can equip them. Mana regen just sort of does it for me. I do sort of like tap tanking, but that's because I have such a melee heavy background. I've been trying to break the habit ;)

I have read many of the threads on AA's, but haven't worried about it too awfully much yet. I can't start on them for another couple of levels, and even then I have the first 18 set in stone, so plenty of time to reconsider as I go.

So, upon this session of reconsidering, SCM3, Mnemonic retention, ND3 seems likely.

And Rijak, while you're advice might very well be perfectly on target - bottom line is I just don't want to wait on the AA's. Keeleys is just a twink, and if I never make it to 62 it's ok. If I keep having as much fun as I've been so far, then she could easily last til 70 and get all the AA's. Either way, as long as I have something to do when my main isn't getting a group, it's all good.

Thanks for the replies guys. I love seeing peoples reasoning on this stuff. I also love how many different paths a necro can take with AA's and still not be "messing up"

[Rijak]

good point... fun's important too ;)

[Dhau]

Run3
Regen3
SCM3
Mental Clarity 1
Combat Agility 1
Natural Durability 1

no no no!!!!!!!!!

Run3
regen3
SCM3
DEATH PEACE!!!!!! (absolute priceless aa)

then get level 70

i personally didn't bother with mental clarity till like late 200's
and combat agility is good, but levels will help you WAYYY more.
then at 70 start working on crit aff 3 / improv crit aff 3, and natural durability/combat agility and lifeburn.
the extra regen from mental clarity is worthless if you can't take a few hits from quad 1100 hitters

[GnekroeGnomicon]

the extra regen from mental clarity is worthless if you can't take a few hits from quad 1100 hittersAbsolutely, inequivocably untrue! That mana regen will help you med back up after a rez!! :D

[chabeksis]

I thought he was talking about staying in his 50s (at least the hijack part) which would mean a lot of that advice can't apply b/c of level restrictions.

The only thing I would say is that if you want to hang around in the 50s /shudder I would still go 100% AA until you want another level. 50/50 is way too slow to see any gains, at least for me it is.

[Keeleys]

Originally posted by Dhau@Jun 24 2005, 06:41 PM
Run3
Regen3
SCM3
Mental Clarity 1
Combat Agility 1
Natural Durability 1

no no no!!!!!!!!!

Run3
regen3
SCM3
DEATH PEACE!!!!!! (absolute priceless aa)

then get level 70

i personally didn't bother with mental clarity till like late 200's
and combat agility is good, but levels will help you WAYYY more.
then at 70 start working on crit aff 3 / improv crit aff 3, and natural durability/combat agility and lifeburn.
the extra regen from mental clarity is worthless if you can't take a few hits from quad 1100 hitters
Well.

I anticipate that going 50/50 will get plenty of AA's before I reach 66 and can get death peace.

What is purchased where, to some extent, depends on how fast the AA's vs levels come.

There are several hundred that I'd like to have. However it comes, it comes. Death Peace will be the first AA once I ding 66, sure. But it'll be a while.

Then again, hell, at this point I'm still level 48. I can't even start AA's yet. Working both my jobs on Saturday, so no EQ, p'haps Sunday I'll find the time to get some more xp.

Laters!

[Keeleys]

Originally posted by chabeksis@Jun 24 2005, 07:29 PM
I thought he was talking about staying in his 50s (at least the hijack part) which would mean a lot of that advice can't apply b/c of level restrictions.

The only thing I would say is that if you want to hang around in the 50s /shudder I would still go 100% AA until you want another level. 50/50 is way too slow to see any gains, at least for me it is.
But part of my point is that I'm not in a hurry. Sure I want to maximize my xp per hour. But I don't need this character. It's for fun. I'm not trying to meet requirements for a certain guild or to camp a certain mob. It's all just gravy.

I guess I'm not being logical. On the one hand, I twinked hard and want the most value for my AA's, want to find good camps and good methods to get xp fast. On the other hand, I'm not so much worried about having the done things the "best" way, and there aren't any plateau's I'm worried about reaching. My only goals at this point are xp and whether the xp goes into xp or aaxp isn't such a big deal. I'm going to put the split at 50/50 just because I want to.

I may be nuts. It's cool though. I don't mind being crazy.

[aeriform]

I've said it before:

/rude Sony for making Critical Affliction required level 65...

[kefkari]

As been stated many times, SCM3 is fantastic. Much better then I anticipated.
I would recommend getting SCM3 before the 9th spell slot.

If you plan on getting the 61 orb spell, I recommend getting Theft of life as you level. At rank 1 it has paid off... Otherwise, for mostly solo play you can probably wait till 70.