Necro vs Pally

[Vavra]

Ok a pally friend wants to duel me. what it the best stratagy for me.. I am a lvl 39 necro and the pally is also 39

[Abbadon]

snare, fear, pet, dot and repeat as needed if possible toss a debuff in there if u can

[Vavra]

What I am concerned about is his stuns. if he stuns me before I fear him then I am most likely dead..

[nocto]

Kiss your fears goodbye.
Last time I tried using any type of fear in a dual against a PC, I received a message telling me that I was 'unable to fear this particular target'.
Fears made Nec and SK dualist godly once, but now that we've been stripped of our ace, we're left to our other vices. (which are still great)
At least these have been the rules on TP now for some time.


Noc

[Umbrello]

Ok, now I'm not trying to flame or make fun...but you guys are a bit outdated on the 'ol pvp rules ;-)

Fearing PCs was nerfed umm....2 or 3 years ago I believe. Wayyyy to powerful. I believe it was nerfed around the same time Charming PCs was, talk about insane...charming a melee and sicking him on his friends, wow that was cool...too powerful also though.

Ok so heres the deal...

I assume he is about as experienced in pvp as any other player on a non-pvp server. Thus he will have low MR(Magic Resist). MR is the key to most pvp. So before you fight him, get some cheap MR gear...You can get player made jewlery, if you have the cash get 2 14MR rings, an MR necklace, and 2 9MR bracelets. TRUST me if you get enough MR gear it will be well worth it. Get your MR as close to or as high above 100 as you can.

When/if he tries to stun you...you will resist it every time.

Now, as for killing him...You can have a pet if you like, but if he is smart he will just undead fear it and you can kiss your pet goodbye for most of the fight. Even if he doesnt fear it, his AC vs Your pets lvl etc. will make it VERY hard for your pet to do any real damage. He will just wiff the whole time, so if I were you I'd just forget the whole pet thing alltogether.

First get MR buffs from another player if you can, once again I cant stress how important MR is. Also get SOW!!!!! being able to outrun him is going to be key in this fight also.

Now that youre buffed and know whats up, lets get down to the fight...

The Fight

Start off with Nullify magic, cast this once, but twice to be safe. The idea is to get rid of any sow or speed he has on...assuming he doesnt have jboots. Also if he has any other buffs they will hopefully be stripped as well. After each cast, run away like youre kiting a mob...you dont want to let him get within melee range at all in this fight if you can help it. Now assuming he has low MR which he probably will...start casting engulfing darkness. Why use the low lvl darkness spell? Less mana is why! Mana conservation during this fight is key, as he will most definately have Lay on Hands up to fight you. You will be killing two of him essentialy, which isnt a problem assuming you have decent gear and you play it right.

If you can land darkness on him easily, congradulations...you have won the fight!! With darkness on him, he is LITERALLY screwed. trust me. Next just stack a couple dots on his ass and rinse and repeat. I would reccommend VoS, Boil Blood, and i suppose Scourge. Make sure to re-darkness him before it wears off...also if he gets a few hits in, no biggy...just run way ahead and Lifetap his ass. Try not to use too many lifetaps as they arent as mana efficient damage wise and remember youre conserving mana to kill two of him.

If you follow these instructions you can't lose, unless he has an ungodly amount of hps and insane resists, which on a blue server his resists will probably be quite below par.

Okay, so here are your options if these strategies dont work out:

If he has high MR and you cant land darkness on him, forget that and just make sure you dispell his sow. Worst case, if he has jboots and keeps sowing, youre next option is to use shadowstep. This is only if you cant outrun him/kite him. You will take some serious damage this way, so be prepared to get hit. Youre going to need alot of mana to do it this way, and it may be quite a bit more difficult, but its still doable. Just stack up your dots, and run around and try to avoid getting hit as much as possible while your dots wear him down. Lifetap and shadowstep when necessary.

Another issue that could come into play is him curing your dots or canceling magic himself to remove your dots...if this happens, no biggy just re-stack when necessary, he wont be able to cancel them fast enough to negate the damage being done, also you can nuke him while he's getting rid of the buffs...he'll just be standing there casting on himself for awhile which will provide you ample time to do what you want with him. Nukes though, rememeber arent very mana effecient, and you could risk running out of mana before you kill the second version of him.

Good luck, and I hope this guide helps...please do come back and tell us how the entire fight went!!

[Vavra]

Wow, thanks for all the info Umbrello, I look forword to kicking his little froggy butt and dining on juicy frog leggs....

[Emperson]

ohh you didnt tell me you were fighting a frog.. i have an easy technique i use for em...

1. Go to your local pet store
2. Buy a pretty female frog and some crickets
3. Put them in a cage behind a curtain
4. When he goes to attack have one of your buddies remove the curtain and open the cage... he'll jump right in there
5. Then just squish him or whatever

If you cant already tell im just kidding around.

but anywho, yah i envy umbrellos pvp abilities... i suck at pvp (and i play on SZ lol go figure) but anywho... uh yeah... kill that goodie for all the necros

[myndless of tallon]

blood of thule and horror, now annul his ass while he's going to cure the blood of thule... reapply force shield and use neurtoxin you'll crit for around 1700 with improved damage 4 or better in pvp, toss in leach and some quick taps... make sure you remove his c5 or it'll be harder to mana kite him


as for enchanters... they can tash me all they want, and they can annul me all they want... i have 307 mr self buffed and four clickies that i can click faster than they can recast =) shamans clerics and druids have good healing... so life burn is sometimes used to kill them.... or wake the dead with a wizards corpse and that helps.... SOS lands for full on them from an NPC =) thats about 2.5k dmg, coupled with a good crit from mujaki or neurotoxin and they are going all defensive... a class that can own is SK's, death touch is mean... but if thats the case just try your ass not to go under 75% hp's and if you do sure as hell hit DA or get a DA idol and keep your finger poised


Lich Myndless Zombie - Pandemonium - Tallon Zek

[Keystone]

except the guy is lvl 39

[myndless of tallon]

well, then just dot him to hell and dont die, he won't be able to out heal your dps at lvl 39, even if he does kill you, he'll probably still die

[deathdodger]

um well your gonna get recked :) u snare him u dot him yea yea yea thats all good and stuff but he can stun u he has 3 stuns by this lvl he can use he can aslo root and if your mr ain't good enough blind witch will screw u up plus most likely hell make sure he has LOH when u gonna duel him so hope u can kill him two times get temp and MR buff and hope for the best :) :) :)

[Umbrello]

Originally posted by myndless of tallon@Nov 28 2003, 02:13 PM
blood of thule and horror, now annul his ass while he's going to cure the blood of thule... reapply force shield and use neurtoxin you'll crit for around 1700 with improved damage 4 or better in pvp, toss in leach and some quick taps... make sure you remove his c5 or it'll be harder to mana kite him


as for enchanters... they can tash me all they want, and they can annul me all they want... i have 307 mr self buffed and four clickies that i can click faster than they can recast =) shamans clerics and druids have good healing... so life burn is sometimes used to kill them.... or wake the dead with a wizards corpse and that helps.... SOS lands for full on them from an NPC =) thats about 2.5k dmg, coupled with a good crit from mujaki or neurotoxin and they are going all defensive... a class that can own is SK's, death touch is mean... but if thats the case just try your ass not to go under 75% hp's and if you do sure as hell hit DA or get a DA idol and keep your finger poised


Lich Myndless Zombie - Pandemonium - Tallon Zek
I'll remember the advice when I get higher lvl...

Myndless = leet.

You can raise dead on a PC's corpse?!? Is there like an amount of time before the corpse goes stale or something? Or can you just hang out near a wizard's corpse and continualy use it for a high nuking NPC?

Deathdodger: He should be okay with all of those as long as he has high MR 100+ 150 would be great 200 and you should be safe from his stuns/roots/blinds...as for killing him twice, just hope you have the mana.

[deathdodger]

yea but thats if his MR is that high lol and your right i dont think he will have the mana at his lvl to kill him twice but i never seen this pally so i dont know :D

[deathdodger]

oh yea and if he see's u resisting alot of his spells hes got 300 HP heal at his lvl plus his LOH when u about to kill him lol u cant beat him theres no way thats if the pally is thinking

[deathdodger]

oh yea one more thing lol if he challenged u to a duel and he asked u if u wanna then hes gonna win beacuse in a newbs mind lol they think necros are the all mighty in pvp so he cant be a newb :)

[vbcypher]

Gneville's Palaldin Strategy (non-level based as possible)
------------------------------------------------------------------

#1 - Know your location. On PvP servers you rarely get to "pick" where you're going to get in a duel so knowing where is good for you and where is not is probably the most key strategy there is. Fighting in the basement of Highpass Keep is not going to be fun for a caster no matter what. Your cornered from the get-go...and it will only get worse.

#2 - Use my cast-move-cast (http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=124) (without interuptions) technique. This will allow you to stay mobile when he's coming after you with those massive a** blades.

#3 - Keep your buffs safe (http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=143) by using fakey buffs up top.

#4 - SvMagic is KEY...although other saves are nice too, especially against other casting types.

....
OK, now we're ready to begin.

If you have a pet already, don't tell him to attack, let him sit there until the first time you're hit. If you just sic' the pet right after your PvP he will dismiss it with Undead Fear or whatever. Let him forget about the pet. If you can park your pet a ways away with /PET SIT so he doesn't even KNOW you have a pet, that's even better.

Get a healthy bit of casting distance between you and nail him with a Cancel Magic or such. Now debuff him with a darkness line of spells. The other poster was right, you can use a lowbie darkness on this becuase with other players...a little goes a long way and saving the mana will be most helpful.

If both land, you're already 2/3's of the way through with him. Snare him now. Then root.

NOW THE MOST IMPORTANT STEP!
You must land on him a Curse / Disease spell on him. This will kill his ability to regen HP and lower his AC. This is important becuase most melee's just sit down when rooted and wait for it to drop while they regen HP. Disease / Curse will prevent their regen, no matter how good/bad it is.

Lowering their AC is also nice becuase now you can call your pet you had hidden behind that tree over to tank the pally. Trust me, with his reducing HP, and the lowered AC...the pet will do good DMG before he's killed off.

At this point you should be meditating, out of his Stun Range, only re-entering range to re-root and re-stack the DoTs. His LAY OF HANDS is going to be coming, and while it will give him butloads of HP back it is not the same as fighting him twice.

If you can plan it right, you can beat his lay of hands. No one seems to remember that Necromancer's get a few, nice Nukes for some reason. He will be waiting until he's at about 15-20% HP before he wastes his lay of hands for maximum effect...when he gets near that amount of HP, just start nuking him like mad. Go all out, just remember to save enough mana for another Snare and Root if his Lay of Hands does go off.

If so, park him again and med it out until you have to re-stack your dots.

Of course, I play more risque than some. But on my bluebie server I only lose 1 out of ever 5 duels I take, and those are mostly Shadow Knights that know precisely WHEN to use their Harm Touch. Grr, I hate them.

[deathdodger]

vbyc what u just said wont help at all vs a paladin as necro your forgetting he can heal himself to for 300 u said something about stay out of stunning range and med but he will also med so he can save the mana for his heals plus his loh and i dont think a necro at that lvl has enough mana to do it

[deathdodger]

plus how u know he doasn't have high enough MR to resist the necro's roots u cant keep him rooted forever and back up and med :)

[vbcypher]

Originally posted by deathdodger@Dec 6 2003, 02:50 AM
plus how u know he doasn't have high enough MR to resist the necro's roots u cant keep him rooted forever and back up and med :)
both are true...been a while since I did a pally or a melee.

I learned two things the other night on the duel fest I started in North Qeynos on my server.

#1 - Somewhere between the last time I dueled and two nights ago Sony kicked necro's in the nards and removed our ability to Bond of Death a PC, to Degenerate a PC, and to Fear a PC.

I was toast the first time through becuase I didn't know that.


Second time through (on a pally this time) I did pretty much as I described in my little guide and it was still a rough win (same levels, both twinked and buffed to hell). First I debuffed him and then snared him. Then I rooted him and loaded him up on DoTs (that would stick) as well as a plague to kill his regen. Moved far away and meditated while he used mana to heal himself until roots broke. Re-snare, and keep trying on a root until it sticks and repeats.

12 minutes later he's OOM and now I know his LOH is coming up. I'm still at 50% mana and I resnare. I didn't reroot at this time....but I was laughing at his "you might want to create a pet some time" message (my pet is hiding a far ways away, out of auto-aggro range).

Snare drops, he LOH's about the same time, and he's on me like flies on chit. I run near pet. Pet has Gnoll hide lariats on him and stuns him. I move away, resnare, root, and back off pet.

Then I listen to his call me names about not fighting like a man. I got pissed and went OOM on 600 DMG nukes. he was at 20% and i was OOM. So I sent pet in and hid in a corner. He found me and was at 10% HP. I had enough mana for three nukes...only took two.

[Doomfir]

Level 39: Darkness snare, VoS, Boil Blood, and above all, Shadowstep, Drain Spirit.

Upper Level Players:

Dont agree with your choices of Dots even in the upper Levels. BoT will more than likely not stick on any kind of advanced player. You will have a much greater luck sticking a dot like Funeral Pyre of Kalandor because of its very low fire resist check.

You might be able to get a darkness snare to land, but not likely just because the higher the player is, and the better the gear..the higher the MR which is what our darkness line is based on. You cant snare him and you have a problem. You can shadowstep out of the way and try again. If you can snare him dots are the best way to go.. but if you cant, do the following.

Use Sarynn's kiss or Vexing Mordina first strike (Very Low resist checks) while pet has been sicked on him and then lifetap his ass off as you shadowstep.. No other spells are really needed etc. If you have gangrenous touch of zamuul I would have it and touch of mujaki up and hit him with both to find out his weakness. GToZ is disease based and that is typically a weakness in all players while ToM is magic which is high in most players. Use both.. lifetap his ass to the ground. You need to deal with all players just about the same.. lifetaps.. not dots. You face a Wizard who nukes for 6k on most NPC's do you really think you got time for your DoT's to work before you are toast? Not a chance.

The only way to take the wizard is the same way.. suck the very thing out of him he is taking from you. With an Improved dmg focus you can be criticalling up to about half of your health (1100+) and since the lifetaps are about twice as fast as their spell for every nuke that almost kills you, you can cheal before they get another off.

[deathdodger]

VBC he used LOH at he wrong time :)

[Masrnaxx]

There is a nifty spell, i have found that does help in PVP that isn't mentioned here. Screaming Terror. Extremely helpful when keeping any enemy from casting spells you don't want him to finish. Sure, you most likely have dotted said enemy as heavily as time/mana has permitted, so it won't hold for a full tick, but it will put a stop to his healing/nuking/stunning...whatever. Shadowstep is also a powerful tool in PvP. I must also remind you nevr to duel a high level ranger...especially if they have EQ/AM3 and trueshot up. Its just suicide. He can track you if you SS, he wears tons of MR gear, and most likely has a bow with a range geater than your cast range. Tried many times to kill my friend (65 Hunter Forest Stalker). SoS doesn't stick to PC's. Not sure why. Without your leach over time, your pretty much screwed if you get nuked/filled with arrows. You just can't keep lifetapping fast enuff to win. Forget the pet in a duel with a root class. It won't even be a factor. Necro isn't the PvP class it was pre-kunark. Its still a powerful dmg dealing class, and the best class in game in my opinion...sadly not the best PvP class.

Masrnaxx
62 Nec Quellious

[Fislibuk]

First check his Magelo Profil and look whats his resist =)
dispell him his hp and resist buffs, try snar him when his MR is low enouth, in case he root you and try hit you, mem Shadow step, its rock in pvp, fear will not work in pvp, you healdots also will not work in pvp, when you just outrun him or use shadow step instant when he comes to you, your dots will take him oom cause of healing himself, you manaregen is much higher then him and he will be np, your pet will be useless in this fight , he blind you pet and it will not add in fight, safe the bone chips, if u clever enouth you bet him without pet easy.

[Doomfir]

If I remember right, HoT lifetaps have also been nerfed in Duels. I could be mistaken though since it has been some time before I could get anyone to duel.

The saddest part of it all is that we have been NERFED in PvP. How can you really pit your char against another if the rules that you play by have to change? This isn't really pitting your char against the other players... SOE SUX! When it comes to PvP with them setting up other than normal play rules. Should be anything goes. Only thing is.. we owned in PvP as did enchanters so allot of people whined... whaaaaa! and they nerfed us.

[Velyan]

A necromancers's biggest asset in duels is his own corpse. Wake it, and it has none of the PC restrictions on your opponent that you do. ;)

Everything lands for full, fear works, and I had it pull up it's own pet exactly once. :D

[Jebasiz]

lifeburn doesn't work in pvp anymore...unless it's on a pet.


Jeb

[Badnewz]

I know myndless from tallon =0 i sold my shammy Pugly on that server a while ago, u X agressor you~

[Jebasiz]

hehe WTD can be fun in duels for sure.

Jeb

[Zaldron]

alot of good strats here but things are alot different when you fight a Paladin with Elemental or Time gear resists are insane, only a few things a necro can do against higher end paladins.
Kite them around till they give up and yell at you for running or run them oom and keep at it till their dead, i myself hate Paladins/SK in highend dueling because its thier resists that make it so hard even after u kite till oom they can beat you down with a weapon so u have to use taps/dots wisely or just end up dead from not.
lol with me i can kite till oom and kill most high end paladins just make sure you have a good horse like 103k one or ornate and dont get cocky have died as much as i have won against them so most of the time it comes down to who resists what and who doesnt screwup or give up at the end.
As for alot of stuff i have read Lifeburn and DoT lifetaps dont work in duels for us necro's but WTD is always nice with your own corpse or a SK's corpse since with an SK it HT's almost right away and your own corpse can use spells which wont work if you use like fear ect, dispelling is useful sometimes Screaming terror cant remember last time it actually landed on someone around my lvl but good for scaring lowbies.

[Jebasiz]

Clicky pyro pants are teh win vs. pallies, the stuns they have do suck...try to stay far away heh.

[Zaldron]

i need to get me some of those ;p but FP works just FP run run run run run Tap when possible repeat till they give up/yell or die ;p

[necropheliack]

ive done a little bit of dueling of pallys in my days already on my necro even doing the hide pet trick kinda thingy out in the middle of no where it seems like when ever u hit that accept duel button or what ever boom instant blind it really blows when u get unblinded and he has u rooted and spankin ur ass i made a necro mostly for soloing and killing people in the arena on cazic thule i seen many necros in my day and always been amazed by there dots so before the duel get a resist magic and try to get it as high as u can higher magic and u cant be rooted by him stunned by him or blinded if he cant do that and u can get snare on him u can pretty much root him and run up and do the /bye command and giggle then dot the hell out of him



just my 2 cp


necropheliack gnome necro of the 34th level
zuzua 62 monk
rokarr 54 bard
azuzu 54 mage
wizzyswizzy 54 wiz
icyded 55 war
deinnwin 46 war
syner 50 cleric
drop me a line on cazic thule some time

[Saurom]

You can't fear in PvP on green servers, dunno bout red servers though.

You can not lifetao dot on green servers, dunno bout red servers.

You will have Shadow step and dispell up for utility spells.

You should have a lifetap DD, a snare, a root, and a the rest hard-to-resist dots (fire line, splurt). If you know his poison resist is low load up scent of ______ and try to nail him after he's snared or playing with the pet.

If he goes after the pet that's a great thing, dot him to high heaven and start summoning a new one. If you do this right he'll be almost dead and a fresh new pet is on him.

If he roots your pet (much better idea) dispell your pet and shadow step ASAP. This'll hopefully dispell your pet's root (unfortunately your pet haste as well but a rooted pet is no good) which will surprise the crap outa him. Another good tactic is to load summon companion and summon your rooted pet next to you then SS and repeat til he learns.

If he runs straight at you like a madman shadow step, run, shadow step, run until he gets pissed at the pet, look above what to do.

As for stuns they are a nuisence but they really aren't long enough to do any real damage to you before you shadow step ... remember shadow stepping is a melees worst nightmare.

Remember that if you get a chance to dispell him, especially after he heals himself with his HoT spells which they preffer because they are cheap on mana.

Also always remember to finish him off with a lifetap DD to avoid his death from dots so he doesn't lose exp.

Dueling Wizzies or rangers should be avoided, those classes are wicked at high level.

[Sliderfx]

""oh yea one more thing lol if he challenged u to a duel and he asked u if u wanna then hes gonna win beacuse in a newbs mind lol they think necros are the all mighty in pvp so he cant be a newb ""


Just because he is the one who elected to duel doesn't necessarily mean he is a newb. I have seen alot of newbs just duel people for the fun of it. As for the mana situation, use the lich line. Even though they take quite a bit of health at that level they are still easily managed as long as you are able to stay out of your opponents melee range.