Cloak of Shadows

[BlackHeart]

Bought this AA last night. It is Instant invis with a 10 minute duration. Works on the same timer as the IVU AA invis, click it off in buff window and both become available again. No delay I could see.

Playing around with this last night, I could FD right next to a mob, watch server ticks and pop up and use this invis before the mob could agro again. Just like the stories I've read about Pre-nerf CoS.

For 12 AA this is a bargain for those of us who cannot afford a pre-nerf CoS and those of us who rarely if ever see one for sale. I've seen two in the past 6 months, one for 300k and one for 450k.

This is the first expansion I have ever saved AA for before release and I'm so very glad I did.

In case I didn't mention it, I AM VERY VERY happy with this AA.

[Rijak]

i read similar on the SK site about being insta-cast... but are you sure there is no recast timer? (even a few secs)

[Dranul]

Originally posted by BlackHeart@Sep 20 2005, 02:15 PM
Works on the same timer as the IVU AA invis, click it off in buff window and both become available again. No delay I could see.
Do you mean that it has the same refresh timer as ITU, which is 7 seconds? Or do you mean that each will actually block the other from landing if you cast it?

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably save up some AAs for it eventually, but if you can't switch from ITU and invis on the fly, I suspect pre-nerf CoS will stay high in price.

[Rijak]

high, but not as high... i'd say the FD-trick is the primary trait that people desire it for (not to say that the other things aren't nice too)

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Dranul@Sep 20 2005, 02:28 PM
Do you mean that it has the same refresh timer as ITU, which is 7 seconds? Or do you mean that each will actually block the other from landing if you cast it?

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably save up some AAs for it eventually, but if you can't switch from ITU and invis on the fly, I suspect pre-nerf CoS will stay high in price.
I understand you can switch them on the fly, after the 7 secoond shared recast timer has expired.

[BlackHeart]

Yes, sorry. It has same recast timer as the IVU.

No delay in casting is what I meant. Insta-cast.

But, I DID have to click off the buff icon to get the hot keys I set up to enable again. Maybe that's just either my funky custom UI or my impatience and overall giddiness playing with it last night. I admit, I didn't play with it very long. It was very late last night when I got it and I had to be to work very early this morning.

Still, even if that's the way it's supposed to work, clicking off a buff icon a micro-second before pressing a hot key is no detriment to using this. It's killer.

[Brantes]

You can cast this AA while running full speed and it will land.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brantes@Sep 20 2005, 09:03 AM
You can cast this AA while running full speed and it will land.
So.. running and you can use post flop. Baby needs a new toy, and I don't have to 800K+ these sell for (rarely available). I am sold.. time to spend those pent up AA I can't decide on.

[rukasak]

obviously, there is an advantage over the cos and a disadvantage.

the disadvantage is that there is a 7 second recast.....
the advantage is that it is a fixed 10 minute invis whereas the cos could drop at any time.

I have the cos and will prob give it to my sk once I have gotten this aa... sk is a lot lower level.

fortunately for me, I looted my cos so have never had to shell out the funds that have been necessary to purchase one over the last few years.

ruk

[Felicite]

Ok.. never had a pernerf CoS, which I know is "quicker" and does not suffer from reuse delay.

But the AA is pretty darn cool.. I am running around clicking it for giggles. It's my new touch stone insta-clickie.

I am a Shadow.. :ph34r:

[Xelgadis]

Even for pre-nerf owners, the AA has some CR value. As far as this expansion... I've already seen it breathe some life back into the traditional CR (it'll never be the same as it was). Unless people are using strong computers on fast connections, zonetimes are horrid (especially zoning into Undershore). Since a corpseless instance collapses after about 30 min or so, even if the task is still running (collapsing instances reset the task.. or did in DoN at least), Lobby'ing corpses is a crapshoot for some players.

[Jebasiz]

I need a new pc...

[Ewasx]

... wish they could fooking do some quality control before they release crap... Cloak of Shadows used to say lvl 59 req level, now lvl 70 req level.

Guess that explains why I couldn't purchase it. I'll have to get off my ass now and get back to leveling.

Definatly an AA I want. :)

[Kelvanan]

Originally posted by Dranul+Sep 20 2005, 09:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dranul @ Sep 20 2005, 09:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-BlackHeart@Sep 20 2005, 02:15 PM
Works on the same timer as the IVU AA invis, click it off in buff window and both become available again. No delay I could see.
Do you mean that it has the same refresh timer as ITU, which is 7 seconds? Or do you mean that each will actually block the other from landing if you cast it?


[/b][/quote]
One form cannot block the other because any form of invis drops when you try to cast another

[Meph]

Originally posted by Ewasx@Sep 21 2005, 07:30 PM
... wish they could fooking do some quality control before they release crap... Cloak of Shadows used to say lvl 59 req level, now lvl 70 req level.

Guess that explains why I couldn't purchase it. I'll have to get off my ass now and get back to leveling.

Definatly an AA I want. :)
CoS was allways lvl 70 req even durring beta.

[Schaeffer]

Not true, when the expansion first went live it was required 59.

They "fixed" it during the first patch to fix the expansion.

[Meph]

I was in beta and bought it 1st day aa's went out it WAS lvl 70 req. If it went live as lvl 59 it was an error they fixed as it was not intended.

[Xislaben]

I'd like to get this aa to have it, but honestly it's a situational use I don't have to deal with very often. I FD at the feet of a static mob that can't see invis almost never, and I don't remember the last time I wanted to run though a zone of mixed live/undead mobs that can't see through invis of one type. Traps that drop invis where you dont have enough time to cast? Few and far between so far.

I'd like a circlet of shadow just for the fun/status of it too, but really, I just don't see the value.

[Meph]

And the blind man shall see... ;)

Believe me CoS is everything else than a status symbol.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Meph@Oct 3 2005, 05:51 PM
And the blind man shall see... ;)

Believe me CoS is everything else than a status symbol.
Can I get some examples please? :)

[Meph]

I wont even bother if you haven't got a clue after all those years. :rolleyes:

[Tryal Anderror]

If you don't see the value of an instaclick, no refresh invis...well i just don't believe that you can't see the value of it.

I would give any other piece of gear up to keep the PreNerf CoS, even after the CoS AA.

[shraklor]

/agree Xislaben

how often do you need to re-cast your pre-nerf CoS more often then 7 seconds? Does this mean if they nerfed all the existing pre-nerf ones tomorrow, you would all not be as good as you are? Would you not be able to travel in some zones?

Seriously, explain how a 7 second recast but fixed duration, sucks compared to a inst-recast random duration invis?

/clueless I guess

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Xislaben+Oct 3 2005, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ Oct 3 2005, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Meph@Oct 3 2005, 05:51 PM
And the blind man shall see...* ;)

Believe me CoS is everything else than a status symbol.
Can I get some examples please? :) [/b][/quote]
It's kinda hard to know where to start. It's like an illiterate saying he doesn't see the value in learning to read and asking you why it is important. If he can't see it already... how in the world do you explain it to him? There are sooooo many things about it - but when they aren't already obvious, he may be blind. :lol:


If you don't find yourself FD at the feet of a non see-invis mob you are not as agressive a player as I am by a long, long shot. And you definately didn't do Tipt/Vxed trials back when GoD came out. Or get summoned and get an FD off when your group wipes with a non re-setting mob. Or FD on a raid with mobs still up in the room in agro radius. Etc etc. Or even just have a lot more patience than me about waiting on pathers :P

Chain casting CoS is for when you have agro already and are running through mobs still primarily. If you have a pre-nerf CoS and don't use this technique learn it in PoI and HoH and you'll soon be using it all over the place. It has travel and pulling implications.

[Schaeffer]

Ever get annoyed pulling past stonemites in vxed?

Clicky, run past stonemites, tag a mob, clicky run back past stonemites, FD stonemites leave you have your mob. No more resetting vxed because of a few measly stonemites.

I love my CoS like I would no other.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I don't think Xis is disregarding the CoS, but rather its value over the new AA

Chain casting CoS is for when you have agro already and are running through mobs still primarily. If you have a pre-nerf CoS and don't use this technique learn it in PoI and HoH and you'll soon be using it all over the place. It has travel and pulling implications.

This may have use assuming that you are running through a mix of see-invis and non-see-invis, in which case chain casting I suppose might only garner the agro of the see invis? (I am taking a guess since I haven't ever owned a CoS)

Are there other instances where you need a instant recast opposed to a 7 second recast that would make the CoS still worth it's price to a level 70 toon? Educate the uneducated.

// wish I had a CoS for the exact reason that Schaeffer just pointed out... Vxed xp would be improved 10 fold with a CoS to invis past the stonemites. The AA would do the same but then the AA requires level 70...

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Oct 4 2005, 02:25 PM
Ever get annoyed pulling past stonemites in vxed?

Clicky, run past stonemites, tag a mob, clicky run back past stonemites, FD stonemites leave you have your mob. No more resetting vxed because of a few measly stonemites.

I love my CoS like I would no other.
Yes.. I was doing this with the AA just last week showing Vxed to someone.

Hey, but, I saw my first available pre-nerf CoS in a year.. 1 million p.

[Tryal Anderror]

The key is the Chain aggroing while pulling or training, like Schaeffer said the main value of the Pre-nerf CoS is being able to run past mobs that do see invis and still being able to stay invis on the other side, even with them casting or hitting you.

If you train through a zone uninvis, the mobs who see you aggro in front of you and rush towards you.
But if you run into a see invis then Re-invis and chain click it to prevent further breaking, then the mobs aggro BEHIND you when the see invis passes them and they assist, meaning they will never hit you.

Also, I constantly FD at the feet of mobs...That's how you make hard splits, that's how you survive summoning, It's just a fact of necro life that you get pinned down.
The insta invis allows you to pop up and click it without gaining any aggro. This one does apply to the CoS AA as well.

The 7 second recast is crippling because it does not allow you to stay invis in instances when the invis is being actively broken.
I've pulled Anguish Signet mobs and other mobs that cast/proc constantly accross zones because I can spam click the invis.

You just cannot be as aggresive with a 7 second delay.

The Pre-Nerf CoS before now was hands down worth whatever it cost. With the CoS AA, you now can do some of the things you use the Pre-Nerf for, but not all of them, and not the most aggressive things.

I would still say the Pre-Nerf is worth every copper it costs you, but you can make an argument that it is simply too much for most players. When i got mine years ago it was 150kpp, now if its a million, i do understand that may be a bit high for people.

But the value is there, if you had one you'd see it immediately

[Felicite]

I believe.. I did not have the million p during the 2 minutes it went unsold.

Have to make to with almost as good.

Point, though, someone swore you could stand at a mobs feet and invis before aggro with the AA.

[Tryal Anderror]

I assume you can

[Xelgadis]

Since it works on the same principle as the IVU AA, I would imagine you can as well. The AA has it's uses, but I still won't give up my CoS on either character. As I see it, even with the new AA, pre-nerf CoS is still arguably the most useful necro usable clicky.

[Schaeffer]

As I see it, even with the new AA, pre-nerf CoS is still arguably the most useful necro usable clicky.

Really? Even more so than your snare stick? I guess you did say "arguably"...

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Xislaben@Oct 3 2005, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Meph@Oct 3 2005, 05:51 PM
And the blind man shall see... ;)

Believe me CoS is everything else than a status symbol.
Can I get some examples please? :)
It's kinda hard to know where to start. It's like an illiterate saying he doesn't see the value in learning to read and asking you why it is important. If he can't see it already... how in the world do you explain it to him? There are sooooo many things about it - but when they aren't already obvious, he may be blind. :lol: [/b]

:P

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM
If you don't find yourself FD at the feet of a non see-invis mob you are not as agressive a player as I am by a long, long shot.

Rarely is this the case, but then I pretty much raid period, though I get out maybe 1 day a week to group, and my groups don't wipe unless I'm going something very new (like 70.2, in which many mobs are undead and all path back anyways).

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM
And you definately didn't do Tipt/Vxed trials back when GoD came out.

Originally posted by Meph@Oct 3 2005, 10:35 PM
I wont even bother if you haven't got a clue after all those years. :rolleyes:

I got EQ just after oow came out I think, maybe right before. I've gone though tipt a few times, but not vxed aside form kiting the entrance and doing the pally epic. No vet reward year 2 here yet.

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM
Or get summoned and get an FD off when your group wipes with a non re-setting mob.

I really don't remember the last time this has happened in a group, but then I do not group much anymore, and am almost always raiding.

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM
Or FD on a raid with mobs still up in the room in agro radius. Etc etc. Or even just have a lot more patience than me about waiting on pathers :P

Not that I recall, so far everything's pathed away or I've taken precautions to fd far enough away from the mobs. Of course poepel DO like to run right to you when you're fd, dragging mobs... This has happened to me though, last time was a few months ago to some adds spawned by a raid mob. They may or may not have seen invis though, but in that case a cos (or the aa) may have helped.

<!--QuoteBegin-Aryse Andenter@Oct 4 2005, 09:21 PM
Chain casting CoS is for when you have agro already and are running through mobs still primarily. If you have a pre-nerf CoS and don't use this technique learn it in PoI and HoH and you'll soon be using it all over the place. It has travel and pulling implications. [/quote]

Travel I can see when your invis gets dropped prematurely. For travel I can get to say all the ikkinz raids 1-4 and to yxxta without ever getting agro. Back when I was camping the Elaborate Hinge I tried running around poi invis and then fd floping around when something saw me and atatcked. I'd just have to flop to a safe-ish spot and wait for agro to clear. I can see the ivu and cos would be really helpful navigating around a mixed place like Chardok, but then I only ever went there once to get the Manisi Herb and maybe on a group/raid for clr 1.0 drops, in which case we just killed.

For pulling I see the potential value in splitting mobs, no questions there, but I rarely pull sadly enough. I'm not a puller on raids, and I raid almost all the time.

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Oct 5 2005, 04:50 AM
As I see it, even with the new AA, pre-nerf CoS is still arguably the most useful necro usable clicky.

Really? Even more so than your snare stick? I guess you did say "arguably"...
Beats my snare stick hands down =)

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Oct 4 2005, 11:50 PM
As I see it, even with the new AA, pre-nerf CoS is still arguably the most useful necro usable clicky.

Really? Even more so than your snare stick? I guess you did say "arguably"...
Which snare stick? The one that clicks Embracing Darkness, or the one that clicks the useless (longass cast time) snare, but also procs Enraging Blow? ;) (Clearly someone has too much time, and too many Ebon Crystals, on their hands) But hey, at least I found a way to make the 1.0 remotely useful for something beyond looking fricken stupid.

Back to the point... Yes, pre-nerf CoS is infinitely more useful than even the Ossein.

[BlackHeart]

I don't think there is much doubt that the CoS is better. Insta-click with no refresh time is better that Insta-click with 7 seconds.

But the AA is a great second choice for those of us who will never see a CoS. I used to check to see if any CoS's were for sale every time I went into bazaar. To be honest, I still do, mostly out of habit, but since I got the AA it's a little less frustrating for me when there are none for sale or on those ultra-rare occaisons where there IS one for sale but the price tage is upwards of 500k.

I've never had one, so I don't know what I'm missing. But what I got is good enough for my use, and it is usful enough to make what I am willing to pay for a CoS drop dramatically. As it will several others I am sure.

Dunno if this will make the price drop, probably not much if it does because it IS still uber-rare, but it might because a lot of necro's will be out of the market for one now.

[Majordeath]

Pre-nerf CoS is no longer a necro "must have" just like the Holgresh Elder Beads are no longer "must have".
With Cloak of Shadows and Innate Invisibility to Undead traveling Veksar is no problem, which I consider a good test of functionality.
With healing potions and shadow orbs the HEB's are no longer needed for healing after medding or playing possum. Only pullers really need HEB's nowadays to see around corners alot.
Prices for the CoS have dropped a bit on my server but HEB's have not. I dumped my CoS for 200K 3 weeks before DoD came out in anticipation of the new AA. Glad I did.
Of course you mileage may vary ....... ;)

[Brahman]

agreed.

if you don't see the value of the prenerf CoS, over the AA you are beyond help.

the snare stick is a very nice thing to have, but there are things you CAN NOT do without a prenerf CoS all the snare stick does is let me stack dots faster, and save me mana. It's (snare stick) incredibly nice to have, but not really game changing.

EDIT::: aka cos is still a must have.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 5 2005, 02:54 PM
but there are things you CAN NOT do without a prenerf CoS
i don't think anyone is arguing that... i think they are just arguing that there are not as many things post-AA... less unique attributes = less value over time

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 5 2005, 12:54 PM
EDIT::: aka cos is still a must have.
So.. we should survey how many pre-nerf CoS exist per server.. that's the hard limit on Necros. Everyone else re-roll as a Druid.

I prefer Wood Elves.. they get that cute little "leash me Master" ring on their collars *nods*

[Majordeath]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 5 2005, 07:54 PM
if you don't see the value of the prenerf CoS, over the AA you are beyond help.
What situation do you absolutely have to have a CoS? What is so dangerous that nothing else will do? Please be specific in scenario and reason for neccessity.

[Brahman]

its been said in this very thread several times already. esentially though, what has not been stated point blank (which sadly so many need...) is WHY you would need to be training while staying invis. Pulling.

and...

from my understanding GMs are giving away prenerf CoS from time to time as rewards for events...

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brahman+Oct 5 2005, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Oct 5 2005, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>its been said in this very thread several times already. esentially though, what has not been stated point blank (which sadly so many need...) is WHY you would need to be training while staying invis. Pulling.[/b]
Pretty sure Tryal did a fine job of explaining being invisible as you get to the mobs between you and camp so they did not assist until the object of the pull gets to them.. chasing after you, rather than running towards you before you get there (ie: not killing you on the way back).

But.. you mean that scenario only when casters are casting on you.. because I do invis on the run for that exact pulling scenario with melee MOBs using the AA (being one of my Guild's primary pullers).

But.. heck yes I would like a pre-nerf to do that to casters. Which leads me to your helpful tip for getting one:

<!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Oct 5 2005, 02:10 PM
and...

from my understanding GMs are giving away prenerf CoS from time to time as rewards for events...[/quote]
er.. I have never heard of this on my server. But even if this hearsay has substance.. what's a GM event?

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html...696265127769770 (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1125696265127769770)

in case you are unwilling to click:

..Would it kill them to run a few now and then?: 663 (59.4%)
..There are not enough events: 346 (31.0%)
..The current amount of events is appropriate: 30 (2.7%)
..There are too many events: 5 (0.4%)
..Avoid! Zone! /quit!: 73 (6.5%)

Placing me in the 90% (I have never seen one, ever, but I have heard of three in over two and half years of near daily play on FV).

[Aryse Andenter]

The supply of the pre-nerf CoS was always something that impressed me, that there were any circulating at all.

The SZ server was created after the CoS stopped dropping, so there were none native to the server, and no server transfers were allowed with the exception of people going back and forth to legends. That singular supply kept pretty much all premier necros/SKs outfitted - counting back I can think of probably about 20+ on the server. Pretty impressive number really for the circumstances.

[FCseven]

Originally posted by Felicite+Oct 5 2005, 08:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Oct 5 2005, 08:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Oct 5 2005, 12:54 PM
EDIT::: aka cos is still a must have.
So.. we should survey how many pre-nerf CoS exist per server.. that's the hard limit on Necros. Everyone else re-roll as a Druid.

I prefer Wood Elves.. they get that cute little "leash me Master" ring on their collars *nods* [/b][/quote]
71 on the 7th hammer if you use eqrankings to search magelos.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite@Oct 5 2005, 04:41 PM
er.. I have never heard of this on my server. But even if this hearsay has substance.. what's a GM event?
gm events!

over almost exactly the same time period on stromm, i've probably seen/heard about 20-25... but 10-15 or so were fishing tournaments (no thanks), 5 or so were scavenger hunts (did one, our group lost, but reward wasn't that great) and 5 or so were arena-type duels, but always very class/level specific (i.e. L65+ warriors only)

the only semi-cool one i experienced was way back in DL... there was this witch-type boss mob that was pretty mean and a few adds here and there and everyone had to gather and try to take her out (i was in my mid-40s killing plaguebones and wandered over)... there was also a bit of dialogue behind it which made it interesting, and i think the reward was decent... though not of CoS proportions

[Schaeffer]

9 times out of 10, a GM event on Tarew Marr was either a level 1 drunk ranger run through kelethin, or a level 1 mage duel in the arena.

But that other 1 time would be a riddle contest for a stack of (lower) gems.


Though about two months ago, they did spawn a badass dragon with like 800 little adds in lavastorm. Ate the shit out of everyone going to creator missions, was pretty funny.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Oct 6 2005, 11:46 AM
9 times out of 10, a GM event on Tarew Marr was either a level 1 drunk ranger run through kelethin, or a level 1 mage duel in the arena.
so TM got the drunk GM and we got the fisherman :P

[Fazzeel]

The AA is good enough for me.

After 70 levels and hundreds of AAs, the use of a CoS (especially in today's game) is simply too limited.

Most of the examples here are still doable with the AA as long as the mobs aren't casters.

CoS goes for around 500k on Fennin Ro (the former Torv).

For the leetists who think you need one, where did the attitude go that if you couldn't do it alone, you were gimp? Where are the "learn your class" leetists on this one? :lol:

[Brahman]

GM events are streaky at best.

and even worse for the same event 3 different GMs will reward...

20k plat oooo, that VT neck from the boss mob there (on any toon on ur account), and a prenerf ________ of your choice.

so...

they are not reliable to say the least. however on my server there always seems to be some prenerf CoS for sale, usually only 250ishk too.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 6 2005, 09:18 PM
GM events are streaky at best.

and even worse for the same event 3 different GMs will reward...

20k plat oooo, that VT neck from the boss mob there (on any toon on ur account), and a prenerf ________ of your choice.

so...

they are not reliable to say the least. however on my server there always seems to be some prenerf CoS for sale, usually only 250ishk too.
Surely you jest?

At best I've heard of 100wr bags being doled out.

Last gm event I played in the rewards were the player made ceramic items and a title which was really a surname with extra capital letters.

[Ewasx]

Not to post on subject or anything... but at least on the surface, it would seem like the new aa has affected CoS pricing/avalibility

There were no less than 7 :blink: for sale on Prexus this morning. 200k-600k

Granted, I don't check the baz very often, but most I remember seeing was 3, 400k-1,000k a few months ago.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

On Drinal, there are teh same 3 for sale as were before DoN all priced in the 300-400k range. They have been sitting there for on and off for months. Occasionally you I had seen them in the 250k range, but that was even before DoN.

If I were to see a CoS for 150k I might pick it up as opposed to grinding out the aa's, but probably only so I can join the 1337 CoS club. :ph34r: (/poke in jest)

Of the 2 gm events I have participated in, (I have heard of a few others while I was online, but mostly just because the zones were crashing due to the stampede of players there). One was the storytelling event which I believe they did on all servers... I won a fire opal (WOOT!). The second was a giant boxing match between a sand giant and a Ice Giant was fun to watch, I got some gimmicky I got the same sandals you get when fishing... heard some people there got 20pp.

[Xebitikz]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Oct 7 2005, 09:53 AM
On Drinal, there are teh same 3 for sale as were before DoN all priced in the 300-400k range. They have been sitting there for on and off for months. Occasionally you I had seen them in the 250k range, but that was even before DoN.

If I were to see a CoS for 150k I might pick it up as opposed to grinding out the aa's, but probably only so I can join the 1337 CoS club. :ph34r: (/poke in jest)

Of the 2 gm events I have participated in, (I have heard of a few others while I was online, but mostly just because the zones were crashing due to the stampede of players there). One was the storytelling event which I believe they did on all servers... I won a fire opal (WOOT!). The second was a giant boxing match between a sand giant and a Ice Giant was fun to watch, I got some gimmicky I got the same sandals you get when fishing... heard some people there got 20pp.
I was lucky, and traded my AoN I happened to buy for 100k for my pre nerf on Tarew when they were like 250k :) everything i see now is like 400k :( Also got my beads for 400k too, and now I think I've seen like one pair of them for like 600k lol. I got so lucky that day :)

[FCseven]

Since Ive gotted the AA I havent used my prenerf once.The seven second recast timer dosent seem to affect me at all and the fixed duration is way better then the drop anytime gather shadows.I suspect the prenerf cos has gone from l33t uber item to situational novelty.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by FCseven@Oct 11 2005, 03:27 PM
Since Ive gotted the AA I havent used my prenerf once.The seven second recast timer dosent seem to affect me at all and the fixed duration is way better then the drop anytime gather shadows.I suspect the prenerf cos has gone from l33t uber item to situational novelty.
Hehe, I got one cheap-ish and it saved me gnomy life.

Was running around illslin (sp?) when a see-invis spider came around a blind corner and agroed, there were a bunch of mobs between me and the nearest open area. I spammed cos and ran for a safe fd spot. Got hit by spells a second later and spammed cos again (no 7 sec recast), which made the mobs I had to pass not agro until I was past them, giving me time to get distance and fd, rather than just dying as they agroed when I got close.

[Aryse Andenter]

Got you converted now Xislaben :D

[UsulDaNeriak]

simply get both:
- aa for casual travelling with fixed invis without loading a spell
- cos for emergency

i got both, and i am fine :P

but honestly, if i wouldnt have a cos, i wouldnt buy it for todays prices. the aa fits in most cases.

Usul

[Greencorneq]

Quick question on the pre nerf COS, can it be clicked from inventory any slot, or when worn only. I know maybe stupid question but I havn't even seen one to buy if i'd have wanted to. Have the AA and it has proven very useful.

Thanks...

[Nep]

Originally posted by Greencorneq@Oct 12 2005, 03:50 PM
Quick question on the pre nerf COS, can it be clicked from inventory any slot, or when worn only. I know maybe stupid question but I havn't even seen one to buy if i'd have wanted to. Have the AA and it has proven very useful.

Thanks...
Inventory clickable.

[Shadowsith]

Seems the peeps arguing that the pre-nerf Cos isnt as valuable as it once was have never owned one! hands down best clicky a necro could ever hope for. Ohh yeah one more thing: Whats the value of one on Zek?....Priceless.... :ph34r:

[BlackHeart]

Seems the peeps arguing that the pre-nerf Cos isnt as valuable as it once was have never owned one! hands down best clicky a necro could ever hope for. Ohh yeah one more thing: Whats the value of one on Zek?....Priceless....

Sounds like the guy who argues that "The only reason you don't prefer a MAC over a Windows machine is that you have never used one"

I'm not arguing that the COS is not valuable. I know it is. It is just not nearly as much of a "MUST HAVE" as it used to be. Therefore the value has gone down. If you can't see that you are just blind.

Don't believe me? Try to sell it. I used to never see one for sale on my server. Now, everyday for the last week there have been 3 for sale. Prices drop every day and they still haven't sold.

[lesk]

Now that cloudy potions stack, you can get 20 CoS clicks in one slot for 200pp. I would think that might be a factor, too.

Maybe they will drop to 20k so I can get one or two...

[Shadowsith]

Sounds like the guy who argues that "The only reason you don't prefer a MAC over a Windows machine is that you have never used one"

Who the hell would ever want to own a Mac? bad analogy: Try again! :ph34r:

[Schaeffer]

My dad has a Mac and I hate it.

No one here uses a Mac as their primary machine, EQ doesn't run on Mac's.

Bad analogy is an understatement.


You don't know how valuable it is BH, it's because you've never considered the possibilities of what you can accomplish with an Insta-clicky invis with no refresh timer and no limit on charges.

Cloudy Potions, even though they are stackable now lesk, still have a cast time, so you can't use while running at full speed, and you can still run out of them.

The CoS AA still has a 7 sec refresh timer so you can't spam it. It's also level 70 required so it's of no use before that.

The pre-nerf is the best thing to have. No one is saying you can't make due without one or that the AA is worthless, Hell when I'm travelling across multiple zones, I still cast the fixed duration invis for convenience, but having the Pre-nerf is still the best option incase you run into trouble. Doc, if that one is still in the Bazaar for 125k I suggest you pick it up and experiment.

Good luck trying to pry my Pre-nerf from my cold dead fingers!

[FCseven]

Cloak Of Shadows is better in almost every way.The only advantage I see to having a prenerf is fd flopping through a zone or running through a zone with multiple caster mobs.Anyone is free to correct me if im wrong.

[Brahman]

rofl

u have been corrected in about every third post here.

[FCseven]

I've seen people give examples how the lack of a 7 second recast timer has helped them,but that hardly makes it as valuable as it was pre dodh.The fact remains the prenerf cos has turned into a situational item, and in the process lost at least 50% of it's (plat) value.BTW brahman, werent you banned from here for trying to get your post count up? :lol: If you are trying to be an asshole crawl back to eqnecro.

[Brahman]

what you fail to recognize/accept is what we are telling you is invaulable, is only situational to you because you cann't do it now. It is a vital tool to pull at all in some area's. (read as named pharming, not xp grinding) so what you think is "situational" is an everyday occurance to those of us that consider the ability to run through mixed see invis mobs that cast as a core set of our abilities.

kinda like if you were a wizzie without a mana robe, you would consider the ability to regen mana so much faster as a nice addition to your abilities while a wizzie that has been doing it for years would consider himself hamstrung if he couldn't do it anymore.

and...

no, no i wasn't you are an idiot. if i was banned... *sigh* i hope you can figure out where i am going with that and it wasn't why i was suspended either.

EDIT::: consider this, you used to be able to drop invis by spamming CoS. You cann't anymore, i considered this a pretty big nerf (or at least a major inconvinience) to my named pharming abilities in some places.

[Schaeffer]

This is a very good topic of discussion, especially for those who legitimately are considering picking up a reduced price clicky because others think it's cash value is diminished due to previous owners having brain farts.

My point is don't turn this thread into a shit slinging contest, I hate editing out garbage posts in good topics. There was only one person ever banned from this site and it was not Brahman, leave it be.

[Rijak]

too funny :P

i'd say the old "playstyle" argument is a major factor here... i don't have a pre-nerf cos or the aa, and i still like to think i can do some pretty good pullin'... naked except for a stack of bonechips! ;)

it's skill that's invaluable, not items

[lesk]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Oct 15 2005, 05:46 PM
Cloudy Potions, even though they are stackable now lesk, still have a cast time, so you can't use while running at full speed, and you can still run out of them.
Nahh, they are insta-cast. Click 'em on the run, no problem. No recast or refresh or anything like that.

You probably wouldn't want to spam them if you are pulling for your group at 10pp per click, but for everything the AA is good for, these potions would work if you don't have the req level.

[BlackHeart]

My dad has a Mac and I hate it.

Duh... That was my point. I'll bet your dad loves it. Most owners of Macs do, or claim they just just from sheer stubborness. And they try to infect others with their Mac infatuation.


No one here uses a Mac as their primary machine,

Ummm... and who said they did? Obcure unrelated points for you +1


EQ doesn't run on Mac's.

Oh? It did. Did they cancel it? http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/08/10/eqmac/index.php


You don't know how valuable it is BH, it's because you've never considered the possibilities of what you can accomplish with an Insta-clicky invis with no refresh timer and no limit on charges.

Yes I have considered it. A lot. And I said it is a valuable tool. It's just not as valuable as it used to be. Not by a long shot. Because at least 90% of what a normal person would use the CoS for can now be accomplished with the AA. Think about that. That other 10% can be accomplished in other much much cheaper ways.


The CoS AA still has a 7 sec refresh timer so you can't spam it. It's also level 70 required so it's of no use before that.

So? If a person can play long enough to farm enough plat to buy a CoS then he can probably get to 70 pretty quick as well and get the AA and spend all that plat on equipment he actually needs.


The pre-nerf is the best thing to have.

No argument there. And if I had 100k (the lowest price I've seen so far) that I didn't need for something else I might just buy one. But, knowing that I am not likely to get my money back if I decide that I really don't need it, I just can't see me doing that.


Good luck trying to pry my Pre-nerf from my cold dead fingers!

No need to do that. There are plenty for sale and the price is dropping every day.


what you fail to recognize/accept is what we are telling you is invaulable, is only situational to you because you cann't do it now. It is a vital tool to pull at all in some area's. (read as named pharming, not xp grinding) so what you think is "situational" is an everyday occurance to those of us that consider the ability to run through mixed see invis mobs that cast as a core set of our abilities.

And what you fail to recognize/accept is that what YOU think is vital for you is not vital to everyone. Different people have different playstyles. What and where are these mystical zones that we can't pull from or even run through without a CoS? Do you pretend it is not possible at all? Or just easier? Situational by definintion means something that you only need for certain rare situations. Now that we have the AA, the CoS fits into that category.

CoS is a situational item now. The proof is in the pudding. They are for sale in bazaar and not selling. I can admit that if the price gets low enough I may just buy one, if nothing else just for the "eliteness" factor. But it is no longer a "must have". It's still a "would be cool to have" and probably always will be. But the price difference between those two categories is a lot of pp, and nothing you say on these message boards is gonna make people start raising the price of an item they can't sell now.


it's skill that's invaluable, not items

Bingo!

[Felicite]

I so want to trot out "NotBrahman" now.

*sigh* Curse you for forbidding my parody.. facist.

OMG he h8s humor 2!

And.. I still love my AA. That 90% I didn't have before is a big improvement for me.

[Schaeffer]

Duh... That was my point. I'll bet your dad loves it. Most owners of Macs do, or claim they just just from sheer stubborness. And they try to infect others with their Mac infatuation.

No he hates it too, that's what he gets for not listening to me (and taking his neighbors advice) when I told him not to get one.


Look man, the point is, it's not obsolete, if you think you don't need one, fine I'm not forcing anyone to buy one. It seems like the people without one are defending the fact that they are still good players without one. No one is saying that you aren't. We're just saying that having one, and using it to it's full potential, is an invaluable tool.

[Zkull]

Can anyone else confirm that with the last patch, the Cloak of Shadows AA now has a required lvl of 59 instead of 70?

I have a CoS, and with my play style will not give it up (I also dont have a big need for pp at the moment), but I know the price is going down and may be harder to sell later. The AA, for 12 points, WILL be the ideal way to get instant invis for many, and now with stackable Cloudy Potions to cover the 7 sec recast, spending 100k, 150k, 250k, 500k whatever of a CoS may not even be considered.

Given that, the CoS is in my slot to stay, even if the lvl is confirmed dropped to 59.

Zkull
65 Bertox

[Xelgadis]

I was expecting this thread to degenerate into a pissing contest a while back. C'mon guys, pick up the tempo. :P

[Schaeffer]

Xelg, you bastard!!!

I'm still taller than you :P

[BlackHeart]

No he hates it too, that's what he gets for not listening to me (and taking his neighbors advice) when I told him not to get one.


Aha! So his neighbor was/is the one trying to infect others! :D


Look man, the point is, it's not obsolete, if you think you don't need one, fine I'm not forcing anyone to buy one. It seems like the people without one are defending the fact that they are still good players without one. No one is saying that you aren't. We're just saying that having one, and using it to it's full potential, is an invaluable tool.


I agree, it is not obsolete. And it never will be. It will always be the BEST thing to have. Unless in a future expansion some mob starts dropping something just as good. But I have to disagree with the term "Invaluable tool". It obviously has a finite value now which gets lower by the day, and will soon find a price niche and stay there. People are selling them now. They weren't before.

Like has been said before, the AA will allow most of us to do 90% of what the CoS allows. The question is just how much plat is that extra 10% worth? Depends on how much plat you have lying around and what you want to do with it.

I haven't seen one for under 100k yet, but I'm guessing it won't be long until I do.

[Ewasx]

Originally posted by Zkull@Oct 17 2005, 06:27 PM
Can anyone else confirm that with the last patch, the Cloak of Shadows AA now has a required lvl of 59 instead of 70?


Beta, req lvl 70, release, "req" lvl reported as 59, really 70. First patch, req level and shown level 70, latest patch, AFAIK, req level 70, reported level 59.

A bunch of other aa that had req level 70 were also changed 59. I think it's just poor quailty control on soe's part.

I will be very supprised, and quite pissed really, if the req level really is 59 now. not that I mind, but I spent the points I had saved on other things and am 80/20 now to get to 70 and hopefully have 12 aa by the time i ding 70.0.

[Brahman]

i would maintain that those selling them are those that only used them for convinence. if you are a laid back player only grouping and not pushing the game in any way, then yes its no better than a stack of cloudy potions.

if you want to push it at all, then... its invaluable.

[UsulDaNeriak]

even 1 million pp is worth a piece of shit these days, because you can buy NOTHING, aside from twinking the next useless alt.

so what?

Usul

[BlackHeart]

i would maintain that those selling them are those that only used them for convinence. if you are a laid back player only grouping and not pushing the game in any way, then yes its no better than a stack of cloudy potions.

if you want to push it at all, then... its invaluable.


LOL. People without the CoS can't push it I guess? Whatever happened to the purists who claim that all we need is a few bonechips? We are not supposed to be tied to our equipment. Equipment is tools. Tools to make us more efficiant at our jobs.

Invaluable = Valuable without measure and with no price tag. Very rarely seen for sale at all and if it is for sale the price tag so high that most cannot afford it. Still, even selling for an astromical price it will be snatched up very fast.

CoS = priced at about 100k-125k right now... and dropping because they are not selling because the AA does 90% of the job.

See the difference?

It has a set value now. I, and probably many more necs, have a "magic price" in their head that they will spend on one now. Just waiting for it to drop to that price. And it will.

If I had 50k in the bank and saw these two things for sale ...

CoS ------ 50k
Spell: Night Fire ----- 50k

I would buy Night Fire. Simply because at this time, since I have the AA, I would get 10x more use out of Night Fire. Now if I had 100k.... that may be a different story.

At one time the CoS was invaluable. It was "THE" item that most necs wanted and felt they needed. That is no longer. It has gone the way of the pre-nerf Guise of deciever (Used to have one for my ogre shaman eons ago) Rubicite BP, that clikcy mana thingy that I can never remember the name of, and the many other items that used to be must-haves for the up and coming elite wanna be.

[Schaeffer]

Blackheart, you have won the interwebs...


GAME OVER

/sarcasm off

[FCseven]

nm

[daephyx]

But I have to disagree with the term "Invaluable tool". It obviously has a finite value now which gets lower by the day

Invaluable tool is a figure of speech BH, if you want to argue about semiotics take a seminar at your local University.

[Dranul]

Originally posted by BlackHeart@Oct 18 2005, 10:12 PM
-snip-

the many other items that used to be must-haves for the up and coming elite wanna be.

-snip-
Wondering when this would become an argument against "ubers" and "elites".

[BlackHeart]

Wondering when this would become an argument against "ubers" and "elites".

And no matter what, there will always be someone trying to stir up crap and try to turn a discussion into a fight for their own amusement. And there will always be someone who can't defend their side of the discussion with facts and figures and feel they have to resort to personal attacks and insults.

Like I said before, the proof is in the pudding. All I am specualating on now is just how many of them will go on sale now and how low will the price go. Have seen as many as 4 at one time and the lowest price at 100k. Also seen a guy auctioning in PoK offering to buy one for 75k. Dunno if he was successful.

Anyone know for sure if they changed the level requirement for the AA to 59 in the last patch or was that just another misprint in the AA window? That will likely effect the price as well.

It interesting really. Watching items devaluate like this. For now, it seems, the CoS has reached its low point at 100k. That could be what the actual market value is, or could just be a point at which the sellers refuse to go lower for the moment.

[Brahman]

ffs, i conceed that for the majority it may be precieved as not being very worthwhile and yet still you must continue on.

you realize that there were necros a year ago that would get into /ooc arguments that it was a worthless toy? so YES your damn right only those that are pushing SOMETHING in the game will find it invaluable.

invaluable would mean to most people...

do i even bother? I mean really i'm talking to the same brick wall that can post on and on for 50 pages when no one agrees with him.

*sigh* why not, i'll enlighten you to what those of us that still have them and wouldn't part with them mean when we say invaluable.

you cann't pry this fucker from my cold dead hands. if you offered 10 million plat i would tell you to go fuck yourself unless I already had a second one, even if i was 99% sure i could buy anouther one for 10k because still there would be that 1% chance i couldn't replace it.

[Schaeffer]

See this is where this stikes me funny BH.

You complain that the gap is too big between you and the "Ubers" and now you can finally get one of the tools the "ubers" use at a cheap price, and you're arguing that it isn't worth it.

/boggle

[Xelgadis]

BH is simply pissed off because it's an item that's available in the bazaar, but doesn't have stats comparable to this (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=70923).

[BlackHeart]

What strikes me as funny is how easy it is to piss you guys off.

[Brahman]

where do u get the idea we are pissed off? just cause u get off on us being pissed doesn't mean we are pissed. sorry to burst your bubble.

[Schaeffer]

Angered, frustrated, pissed off... A necro is not these things.

Confused, boggled, puzzled, sad for you... is closer to the truth.

[Xelgadis]

Clearly BH forgot to read this (http://welcome.twysted.net/) when he was released from the looney bin.

[BlackHeart]

where do u get the idea we are pissed off?

Because you keep posting. Even when its obvious you are wrong and being stupid.
You won't admit the obvious. The CoS is NO LONGER invaluable.


Confused, boggled, puzzled

Sounds like a personal problem. Perpetual is it?


Clearly BH forgot to read this when he was released from the looney bin.

Oh! The hurt. You win at linking.
Can I have your autograph?

Guys, stop being stupid. I'm sorry that you feel used and abused because you spent hundreds of thousands of plat on an item that is no longer worth even 20% of what you paid for it. But, that is life. Get over it. I'm sure there are lots of people who feel that way about the new car they bought a few years ago.

Now I know at least one of you will come up with some idiotic thing like, "Plat is useless anyway" but that's not the point and isn't true when it comes to items like the CoS that you can no longer camp but can only buy.

The point is that owning a CoS was a part of your "Eliteness". Now, since the value has dropped dramatically, just about any Joe Necro can afford one, and THAT is the thing that pisses you off more than anything.

And Braham, you are full of it. If you need an item like CoS to "Push it" like you say, then you are a very weak player. Or at least very impatient.

[Dranul]

Originally posted by BlackHeart@Oct 21 2005, 02:45 PM
The point is that owning a CoS was a part of your "Eliteness". Now, since the value has dropped dramatically, just about any Joe Necro can afford one, and THAT is the thing that pisses you off more than anything.
I really doubt that anyone feels "elite" when the own a CoS. I don't know, maybe it's because I've never owned one, but I really doubt that the real issue here. I think what everyone is arguing is that the CoS, regardless of the AA, is worth every plat you spend on it, be it 10 or 1 million. The exact value is something to be determined by your server.

Beyond that, I'm sure that people feel "elite" when debating with you, BH, for other reasons entirely.

[BlackHeart]

And you would be wrong.

But that is likely something you hear everyday and is a normal part of your life. So hush and go back to stuffing your nose up someones butt who you think is smart because they can tie their shoes.

Stop being a sheep and learn to think for yourself. Is that possible?

[Dranul]

And that's your problem. You seem like an intelligent guy, yet you can't understand someone else's argument, and you can't argue without either falling back on "You're an elitist" or without using insults that attack people's intelligence or ability to critically think.

Personally, I don't have either the item or the AA, and I get along fine without them. Does that mean I can't see the value in both? No. Which will I probably have first? If I bother with either, probably the AA. Will it make me godly? No. Just like the CoS won't make anyone godly, just be a very useful tool.

I'm just trying to help you understand that these people aren't saying that unless you have a CoS, you aren't a necro. Or that the AA is worthless. Or that the item is worth 1 million plat. They are just saying that the CoS is worth everything you'll spend on it, and it does have certain advantages over the AA. There are things you can do with the item that you simply can't with the AA. 90% of what you can do with one, you can do with both, yes. But the same holds true for normal invis for that matter. I can probably do about 60% of what either does with just my 3 second invis clickie from Earth; that is to say, I can use it for invis without memming a spell.

BH, I honestly don't understand you. Like I said, you seem to be at least a well educated person, yet you're incapable of arguing effectively. When God or whoever made you, they apparently rolled high Int and low Wis. It's nothing to be ashamed of and it's not a deep personality flaw, but it does make you look like a dumb ass to anyone that can half-decently argue. Your bread and butter response is saying, "You're an elitist, and that means your argument doesn't matter." or "You're an Uncle Tom casual that brown noses the ubers, therefore your argument doesn't matter." Neither one makes sense, and it's not how you win friends and influence people. Learn to argue, then we'll talk.

[BlackHeart]

yet you can't understand someone else's argument, and you can't argue without either falling back on "You're an elitist" or without using insults that attack people's intelligence or ability to critically think.


I understand other peoples arguments very well. I just don't agree twith them all the time, and I have a very low tolerence for people who can't talk to people they disagree with without attacking them.

Look back at any of my posts where I insulted someone. Note that I never insulted them unless they did so first. It's amazing to me how people ignore that. I'm not going to let that happen without striking back. If they can be civil and talk in an intelligent manner and qualify statements with things like, "In my opinion" and "I just think" instead of things like "I don't care what you say" and "You must be stupid to think that" then everything is a-ok, and they will be treated with respect and kindness. Otherwise... they can kiss my entire ass. Multiple times. They don't have time and common decency to post things like a normal human being then they won't get any sort of respect from me. Repsect is not something you will get from me unless you EARN it. You don't get it by demanding it or whining about it, and you sure are not ever gonna get it with a holier-than-thou attitude.

I have my opinions, and I usually back things up with facts. Like the price that CoS are selling for (or at least priced at) in bazaar right now. That is a FACT. Go to bazaar and you will see it. You can argue about it all you want. It is still a fact that they are priced at 100-120k now. Prices may vary on servers. To insist anything else is silliness. Yet, others post here their "Opinions" as fact and I am supposed to accept it as gospel? Not gonna happen.

I never once said that CoS is worthless, yet people try to insist that I have. They don't like the cold hard truth of my posts, and can't find any holes except for the ones they invent so they attack me. I never even ONE TIME suggested any real true value of what a CoS is. I merely reported the prices in the bazaar and speculated on and wondered just how low they would go. I also stated that if both Nightfire and a CoS were for sale I would rather have Night Fire than a CoS because ...

Simply because at this time, since I have the AA, I would get 10x more use out of Night Fire

Nowhere in that quote is their anything about a CoS being worthless. I didn't suggest that Night Fire was worth more than a CoS, simply that I would rather have it AT THIS TIME.


BH, I honestly don't understand you.

I'm pretty easy to understand really. I question things. I think out of the box. I look for better and easier way to do things. I don't accept "the normal" way of doing things unless I get some reason other than "because I say so" or "because that's the way everyone does it". I am a great friend to have, but if you insist on being my enemy then prepare for a war.

[Venimeux]

I got my CoS the day after they nerfed it for 1k in the Gfay auction market. I wish I'd bought 3 more and held onto them. I don't feel elite having one, I just feel like I've had a tool that's helped me more times than any other piece of equipment or AA that I've ever had. I'm glad that they put in the AA invis, but the level 70 is a huge PITA for my alts, and the 7 second recast could pose problems in a few situations.

When it's all said and done, I still wouldn't sell the CoS in the market.

[Schaeffer]

Sounds like a personal problem. Perpetual is it?


It can't be my "personal" problem if 99 out 100 necros feel the same way as I do...




However it may be considered YOUR personal problem ;)




I'm sorry that you feel used and abused because you spent hundreds of thousands of plat on an item that is no longer worth even 20% of what you paid for it.


Ah ha!

Psychology professor says "The ridicule of the possessions of others often stems from hidden emotions, usually a feeling of low self-esteem, lack self worth or jealousy"

Survey Says: We have a winner!

[Felicite]

I found one! *dances*

http://www.playerauctions.com/listings/det...mnum=1129770400 (http://www.playerauctions.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=1129770400)

Now I just have to decide how much to bid!

/sarcasm off

[Brahman]

i say...

ffs, i conceed that for the majority it may be precieved as not being very worthwhile and yet still you must continue on.

you say...

Because you keep posting. Even when its obvious you are wrong and being stupid.
You won't admit the obvious. The CoS is NO LONGER invaluable.

and you wonder why we resort to name calling? its the only thing that you seem to let through your skull.

EDIT::: that is not to say that to me, and hundreds of other necro's that already have one, its still not invaluable. because i wouldn't part with it for any amount of money. thats the only thing required to make it invaluable.

[BlackHeart]

I apologize ahead of time if this post seems pieced togehter. It is. Very busy Monday morning for me at work and have had to piece it together in 2 and 3 minute increments as I put out fires. Not literally, I am an IT guy... IT people will know my meaning and will know what I mean by sometimes wishing I could change my name.


It can't be my "personal" problem if 99 out 100 necros feel the same way as I do...

Wrong again. You can't invent a statistic out of thin air that facts will nullify. For instance: If 99 out of 100 necros felt the same way then those 3 or 4 CoS's for sale in the bazaar for 100-120k would have been snatched up in an instant. But they are still for sale and have been for over 2 weeks now. Also, many necros on these boards have stated that the AA is good enough for them.


Psychology professor says "The ridicule of the possessions of others often stems from hidden emotions, usually a feeling of low self-esteem, lack self worth or jealousy"


LOL. Nice try. But it would only be "Jealousy" if I actually wanted a CoS bad enough to pay 100-120k for one. And if I didn't have the plat to buy one. I don't want one that bac yet, simply because I don't see the need yet (I did say YET) and like most people who have been around the game since opening day I have more plat than Jesus.

And my elf-esteem is plenty high thank you. But I don't use my accomplishments in EQ or what a few dillusional egotists on a message board have set as a measuring stick to measure it.


I also find this quite amusing and just a touch hypocritical...

This is a very good topic of discussion, especially for those who legitimately are considering picking up a reduced price clicky because others think it's cash value is diminished due to previous owners having brain farts.

My point is don't turn this thread into a shit slinging contest

Yet you are one of those who began the slinging and still have shit in hand ready to throw.


and you wonder why we resort to name calling? its the only thing that you seem to let through your skull.

No excuses. When you resort to hurling insults instead of countering or debating the issues you have lost. This is why I fight fire with fire. To try and educate you that to insult someone that you disagree with gets you nowhere. You will not win an argument simply because your personality is nastier than someone elses you only change what you are arguing about. Apparently my strategy is not working and may have to consider just ignoring you.

This is why I left EQnecro and refused to go back when it was re-done. I was tired of all the childish crap and epenis measuring and much preferred the more adult structured and ON TOPIC attitude of this site. I have factual statistics to prove that statement too if you are interested. But, I'm sure you are not.

Back to the issue:
All I was trying to do was report the prices and speculate how low they would go. Still can't figure out why that pisses you off so much.

I never argued that a CoS was not a very valuable tool. A point that I have stated more than once and you continue to ignore, insinuating instead that since I don't 100% agree with you that I must be 100% wrong. The thing that you cannot accept or comprehend is that for now it has a set value and people are trying to sell them.

This may all change next week. SOE may change some zone somewhere that everyone wants to hunt in and it absolutely requires a CoS to even get through it. Or they may nerf the AA into oblivion so that its useless. But for now, At this time, it has a set value because the AA allows you to do 90% of what a CoS allows. Apparently, as prices in bazaar would suggest, that extra 10% is worth 100-120k. At least, that is the price that would-be sellers are asking. Still dunno if they have been successful.


that is not to say that to me, and hundreds of other necro's that already have one, its still not invaluable. because i wouldn't part with it for any amount of money

There! Alas! A valid argument! All made valid by those two simple words... "to me". Now, was that so hard? Now that you are on the right track can you also admit that to hundreds of other necros it is not invaluable? And further, that just because they think differently than you can you accept that they are still legitamite necros and not the lowlife red-headed stepchildren of the class? Progress!

[Jebasiz]

Wow..for someone's that is so busy you sure do love to argue. I'll never part with my CoS. Those 9 or however many aa for that skill, will be spent elsewhere for several months(many more if rl keeps me as busy as it has been since August).

Is it as good as the CoS? I don't know. If it is, do I care? Not at all. It may take away from the monetary value of my item, but it doesn't make it any less usefull. The fact that I've had that ability for years already has more then made the 45mins I spent camping it worthwhile.

[Felicite]

IMHO no one has disproved BH's thesis. Yes, all you people that have had pre-nerfs all a long love them, use them, I dearsay need them.

I have never had one, never had the means. When I got the AA, I totally understood why you all say they are indispensible.

And I think I understand the limitation the recast delay places on me. But I use the AA constantly, and unless I am getting my invis popped by casters or see invis melee and chain clicking the item would be better, I would have to say they are pretty much six and one half.

No one is asking you to surrender yours. Hell, I will worship your feet cause you have one. I don't, and unless the price hits 100K on my server I never will.

Having one is better than the AA (to some degree), if you have one or can get one withing YOUR means. I have not seen anyone say the item is less than the AA.

Major props to BH for predicting the price would be depressed.. AND IT HAS.

I am unclear what we are arguing about, unless it is *ways* the item is more important the AA. So far, it's because you can spam it in situations where your invis is being stripped again and again. Is that worth 100K.. maybe. Is that worth a million p to me? Not today, sorry.

You have something new.. limitation wise? Because everything else in this thread is old and dead, really.

[Schaeffer]

Well Fel, we were arguing with BH, and He caught me, I asked not to turn this into a shit slinging contest, and I couldn't resist the bait he left out for me.


Good Job buddy, I hope yer proud of yourself

[Dranul]

Originally posted by Felicite+Oct 24 2005, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Oct 24 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Major props to BH for predicting the price would be depressed.. AND IT HAS. [/b]
Still going for 400-600k on Saryrn, just like it always did on Mith Marr.

I think what we're arguing about at this point is how to argue effectively without resorting to insults. There's always someone on every board or online community that incites everyone else for whatever reason. No matter how well worded or thought out or correct their contributions are, other people just don't like them.

I've carried around my Shai'din Revenant Bauble for a long time now. I've had my Wand of Imperciptibility grace the same spot in my inventory for even longer. Hell, even though I could camp Veksar for a quicker summon pet clickie, my Gloves of Control still stay in my bag of toys. I bolded that word because that's what the CoS and AA are. They are helpful and useful toys. If I need levi, I click the Bauble instead of memming DMF. Could I live without my Bauble? Yep. Can I live without CoS or AA (Damn SOE for making them the same acronym, btw)? Obviously, I can, since I have neither.

And, honestly, it comes down to a simple question: how much are you willing to pay for a CoS? More importantly, how much is your server willing to sell them for?

I don't think it's honest to predict an across the board reduction in price. I also don't think it's honest to predict an across the board static state. This thread at some point became bashing BH, and, in this particular case, it isn't deserved. Which isn't to say he hasn't deserved it before, but at the start of this thread, it was simple prediction and speculation.

Honestly, everyone just needs to chill out. BH, please, please, PLEASE, stop falling back on the "uber" argument. It's the best way to get people to stop reading what you're writing and jump to conclusions. Everyone else, polish your CoS and loan me some plat to buy one for myself.

And because I can't pass up the joke:
<!--QuoteBegin-Felicite
I am unclean[/quote]
So Feli is a dirty girl.

[BlackHeart]

Blackheart, how can you criticize others for making up statistics and keep a straight face when you make up your own?:

You are correct. My apologies. I thought I was quoting someone else's 90% guess but I was mistaken. Probably seen it another post somewhere. But I have seen no one here argue about that particular figure. So, it may be pretty accurate. It could be a whole post on its own: Is the AA 90% as effective as the CoS? If not, what percentage then?


And, honestly, it comes down to a simple question: how much are you willing to pay for a CoS? More importantly, how much is your server willing to sell them for?


That's what I thought I was asking. Apparently not too well.


BH, please, please, PLEASE, stop falling back on the "uber" argument. It's the best way to get people to stop reading what you're writing and jump to conclusions

Gladly. But, any truce has to have terms for both sides. What will they give up?


Well Fel, we were arguing with BH, and He caught me, I asked not to turn this into a shit slinging contest, and I couldn't resist the bait he left out for me.


Good Job buddy, I hope yer proud of yourself

Not at all. All I ever wanted was for people to look at the original question, and answer it honestly and maybe have some fun speculating what would happen. Instead, a few people made it into a "BH hates ubers fight lets all get him" yet again and you simply got caught up in the mob hysteria.

And for the record, I still don't hate ubers. Everyone in my guild thinks I am the uber one. Which I am not by a long shot. But what I do hate, and will not ever hesitate to call people on is that "I know it all and you don't know crap" mentality. Uber, casual or newb, that particular line of thinking just rubs me the wrong way.

People come to these boards to learn things. To be instructed. Not to be ridiculed if they give their own opinions or ask questions about things they do not know.

[Quezquotyl]

Also, many necros on these boards have stated that the AA is good enough for them.


Level requirement for AA > level requirement for pre-nerf CoS. Pre-Nerf is a twink item, always has been, always will be. People who WANT the ability before the level required for the AA will get the pre-nerf regardless of the price if one is available.

This argument is futile, if you are too cheap to buy a pre-nerf, get the AA. If you are level twenty and want the pre-nerf capability, and don't have the plat, sucks to be you.

Before this expansion, this argument still played around the forums. Is the CoS worth an assload of plat? Considering they haven't dropped on live for YEARS, yes they will cost you a chunk. Whether or not it is worth it now, yesterday, or after this new AA is not really relevant. Everyone has their own damn opinion, and one person who says the pre-Nerf isn't worth the 500k probably isn't in a position to acquire one anways.

Have a nice Monday.

[Felicite]

Thank you!

Now I have two reasons to lay down 1,000,000 plat (on my server.. once or twice a year).

1. You can spam click it if invis is being stripped by casters or see-invis melee in range.

2. You can use it before the required level for the AA (twinkage).

I have two unique benefits (and one cost, it takes a primary inventory slot.. AA does not.. *winks at Xelgadis*).

Anyone else?

[BlackHeart]

I have two unique benefits (and one cost, it takes a primary inventory slot.. AA does not..

Dunno if this is considered cost or just annoyance. CoS does not have set duration does it? The AA does.

Also, this is a question not an acusation: Does Invis from CoS stick with you when you zone? The AA does.

[Schaeffer]

yes the clicky sticks with you when you zone

[lesk]

It is Gather Shadows so it'll work through zones just like the spell.

No one digs my cloudy potions, but they stack and fit on the potion belt, so you could spam a hotkey during your fixed-duration aa's delay. And if the price of a CoS is 1mil on your server, that's about 100,000 potions, or 54 clicks every calendar day for 5 years.

But if you had it and you ever rolled a sk, you could share the uberness.

It's weak, but I tried...

[Rijak]

Originally posted by lesk@Oct 24 2005, 02:32 PM
No one digs my cloudy potions, but they stack and fit on the potion belt, so you could spam a hotkey during your fixed-duration aa's delay. And if the price of a CoS is 1mil on your server, that's about 100,000 potions, or 54 clicks every calendar day for 5 years.
stop making so much sense! this is supposed to be an argument :angry: :P

[Felicite]

Variable length is not that important when you can instant-click refresh it even in the middle of mobs.

Primary slot.. don't laugh.. ask Xeldagis how many bag carrying slots he gives up just to click stuff? On his SK I beileve it's at least 4.. so a physical CoS would be a fifth (or a swap)? That's not a joke at all.

The stack of cloudies is great.. I use them on my cleric. But anything with charges will run out at the wrong time. That's why we want a shrink wand even though potions/tinkered items exist, right?

[FCseven]

Originally posted by Felicite@Oct 24 2005, 08:19 PM
Variable length is not that important when you can instant-click refresh it even in the middle of mobs.

But when you are running through a zone like RSS and paying attention to cons for see invis mobs some would have trouble paying attention to the gather shadows buff icon poofing.. AA wins in this dept too

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by FCseven+Oct 24 2005, 08:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FCseven @ Oct 24 2005, 08:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Felicite@Oct 24 2005, 08:19 PM
Variable length is not that important when you can instant-click refresh it even in the middle of mobs.

But when you are running through a zone like RSS and paying attention to cons for see invis mobs some would have trouble paying attention to the gather shadows buff icon poofing.. AA wins in this dept too [/b][/quote]
In that case hot key it and click it every few seconds, then you dont need to look at all. I train to mpg trials frequently, this is useful.

[Felicite]

I happen to agree.. that fixed length > variable length. No matter how careful you are, at the wrong time you will not notice the message and get smooshed.

But if I listed that as a benefit of the AA, you would say it was an overrated one. Much like the primary inventory slot issue.. which is an issue, but limited I suppose. So.. still no new benefits on the CoS item then, beyond:

1. Spamming when casters or see invis melee are stripping invis

2. Twinking

Anyone?

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Felicite@Oct 24 2005, 08:46 PM
I happen to agree.. that fixed length > variable length. No matter how careful you are, at the wrong time you will not notice the message and get smooshed.

But if I listed that as a benefit of the AA, you would say it was an overrated one. Much like the primary inventory slot issue.. which is an issue, but limited I suppose. So.. still no new benefits on the CoS item then, beyond:

1. Spamming when casters or see invis melee are stripping invis

2. Twinking

Anyone?
Buff agro? ;)

[Jebasiz]

Jesus, it's like 3 pages per difference between the two. One has a recast timer and is fixed duration and one doesn't and is variable duration.

Pick your poison.

Invis wearing off at the wrong time with a pre-nerf cos really isn't a valid argument imo. It just doesn't happen unless your A) stupid, B) heavily under the influence of alcohol C) high, D) afk(in which case 99% of the time we're gonna fd beforehand).

I understand that anything can be applied wrong, but this clearly is any easy tool to use(in either case).

Take a break, a deep breath and count to 10..there's a patch in like 35-40hours, we'll have plenty to bitch about on wednesday afternoon.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Oct 25 2005, 01:13 AM
Jesus, it's like 3 pages per difference between the two. One has a recast timer and is fixed duration and one doesn't and is variable duration.

Pick your poison.

Invis wearing off at the wrong time with a pre-nerf cos really isn't a valid argument imo. It just doesn't happen unless your A) stupid, B) heavily under the influence of alcohol C) high, D) afk(in which case 99% of the time we're gonna fd beforehand).

I understand that anything can be applied wrong, but this clearly is any easy tool to use(in either case).

Take a break, a deep breath and count to 10..there's a patch in like 35-40hours, we'll have plenty to bitch about on wednesday afternoon.
So you wear sunglasses when under the influence of alcohol eh?

/ducks and runs

[Brahman]

BH's ability to ignore what is actually said and continue an arguement never falls short of amazment.

[Jebasiz]

Selective comprehension at it's finest.

[Eyez]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 16 2005, 05:24 PM
what you fail to recognize/accept is what we are telling you is invaulable, is only situational to you because you cann't do it now. It is a vital tool to pull at all in some area's. (read as named pharming, not xp grinding) so what you think is "situational" is an everyday occurance to those of us that consider the ability to run through mixed see invis mobs that cast as a core set of our abilities.

So, is the really big difference between the two the ability to pharm names with the CoS?

edit spelling

[Brahman]

there is at least one other trick that my particular race can not make use of.

frankly, i know there are more tricks than i am aware of.

.1 cast time + insta recast = many loopholes = many many tricks

its just funny, because really i cann't go into it because i know exactly what will happen "blah, blah, blah, blah, elitist, blah blah elitist doesn't wanna help the common folk.

there are just so many various tricks all over the place that you cann't give any one example with it. Everyone has come up with their own uses.

I have had mine for awhile now and suddenly i hear about how they nerfed the trick where you could shop at KoS vendors. I had no idea. The few "tricks" that are up my sleave with it have been unknown to friends that had them, and so on. It really is one of those things that is unique in the game and consistantly does things that the devs don't expect.

Not any single one of these "tricks" are why its invaluable. Its the simple fact that consistently, new uses always crop up.

[BlackHeart]

BH's ability to ignore what is actually said and continue an arguement never falls short of amazment.

If you actually said something with any substance or merit it might make a difference. And besides,
you make it so easy to ignore anything you say.... kinda like I avoid stepping in dog crap. Stepping in that dog crap may not make a mess of my shoes and may not stink this time, but history tells me that it likely will, especially considering the source.


Selective comprehension at it's finest.

Ditto. Who are you and what have you done with the real Jeb?

I comprehend what you say just fine. I just don't agree with it. I refuse to accept anything as fact when all is offered as proof is "just because I say so" or "well if you don't know I'm not gonna tell you".

And Brahaman your last post with all the hints at "hidden secret" uses of the CoS just proves that your entire argument is based on the ideal that a CoS is so much better "just because you say so". See dog crap analogy above. Let's hear some real uses that any serious hard-core necro just cannot live without instead of all this fantasy you're inventing. Maybe we will all see the light and rush out and buy as many as we can get our hands on and drive the price back up! And maybe I will win the lottery next month too.

Last night there were 5 for sale on my server! FIVE! Priced from 110k all the way up to 290k. Still, FIVE! On a server where I saw none for months at a time. Five! Well, a lot of that time was before we merged servers so that may make some difference. But.... FIVE! Also noted that there were a few nerfed ones that people were trying to sell for 50k-75k. Shame shame.

Now, since you brought it up, let's discuss ignoring what was actually said.

1- I said the new AA is very useful.
2- I said CoS is much more useful than the AA. Many times.
3- I predicted the price of CoS would drop dramatically because of the new AA.
4- I said they were priced for 100-120k in bazaar, and apparently not selling.
5- I said one guy auctioned to buy one for 75k. Dunno if he was successful.
6- I asked, "Is the difference between CoS and the AA worth 120k?"
7- I stated the CoS is no longer invaluable. They have a set value. People are selling them now.

All this was of course ignored and/or perverted into some fantasy of what you think I think. Nowhere did I say that the CoS was useless. Nowhere did I say it was a waste of money. Nowhere did I say the AA was better. Nowhere did I even say what price I would pay for one.

The real issue here has very little to do with the issue itself but the person who brought up the issue. Deal with that first and maybe you can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel. Learn to deal rationally with people who don't agree with you and learn to admit when you are wrong or at least agree to disagree with them instead of attacking them.

[Jebasiz]

Ditto. Who are you and what have you done with the real Jeb?

umm..what?

[BlackHeart]

umm..what?

I can't resist...

Well, if you have to ask I'm not gonna tell you.

/arrogance off

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by BlackHeart@Oct 25 2005, 09:37 AM


Last night there were 5 for sale on my server! FIVE! Priced from 110k all the way up to 290k. Still, FIVE! On a server where I saw none for months at a time. Five! Well, a lot of that time was before we merged servers so that may make some difference. But.... FIVE! Also noted that there were a few nerfed ones that people were trying to sell for 50k-75k. Shame shame.

Now, since you brought it up, let's discuss ignoring what was actually said.

1- I said the new AA is very useful.
2- I said CoS is much more useful than the AA. Many times.
3- I predicted the price of CoS would drop dramatically because of the new AA.
4- I said they were priced for 100-120k in bazaar, and apparently not selling.
5- I said one guy auctioned to buy one for 75k. Dunno if he was successful.
6- I asked, "Is the difference between CoS and the AA worth 120k?"
7- I stated the CoS is no longer invaluable. They have a set value. People are selling them now.

All this was of course ignored and/or perverted into some fantasy of what you think I think. Nowhere did I say that the CoS was useless. Nowhere did I say it was a waste of money. Nowhere did I say the AA was better. Nowhere did I even say what price I would pay for one.

The real issue here has very little to do with the issue itself but the person who brought up the issue. Deal with that first and maybe you can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel. Learn to deal rationally with people who don't agree with you and learn to admit when you are wrong or at least agree to disagree with them instead of attacking them.
No it's not worth 120k imo. The fixed duration aspect of the aa counteracts the casting time imo. It's relatively just as good as the item. There may be a few times/instances where the CoS is better, but it's not 120k better. FD and wait 7 seconds. That or just create a bigger train.

It's honestly damn close to 6 in one hand and one half dozen in the other. If you got your CoS, you won't get the aa..if you don't have a CoS, you should already have the aa by now.

It's a mute point.

If people wanna point out the fact that the CoS can be used to chain invis themselves running away from casters..well, that's the advantage of no recast. It's also probably the only way the CoS is better then the aa, that and it didn't cost aa to attain.

The biggest things about both of them:

you can invis on the run
you can invis after being fd at a mobs feet and stand without agro.
you can remain invis pretty much forever, unless something sees you anyway, or your ae'd.

Both can serve these purposes fine..

[Quezquotyl]

Last night there were 5 for sale on my server! FIVE! Priced from 110k all the way up to 290k. Still, FIVE! On a server where I saw none for months at a time. Five! Well, a lot of that time was before we merged servers so that may make some difference. But.... FIVE! Also noted that there were a few nerfed ones that people were trying to sell for 50k-75k. Shame shame.


This proves what? That the economy on your server is cheaper than others? Or that supply and demand have all of a sudden increased because of the new AA ability? In either case it really doesn't matter, because either one does nothing to validate your arguement that the ability is better than the item.

If you want to validate your argument, do something more than provide localized circumstantial coincidences like the influx of the prenerf item into your bazaar. Do something innovative like, omg, ask the trader, "Hey, why are you selling this item?". Then you might be in a better position to say, "Fuck you guys, I am right, and you are wrong! NEENER NEENER!!"

More food for thought, who cares which is better or what is and isn't worth it?
Other than the fact that I am bored and posting to this thread for the simple pleasure of amusing myself. Maybe that is why you resort to telling people that their position on the subject at hand is bs and wrong, just to entertain yourself.

Have a nice Tuesday! :P

[Duke Roger]

It's MOOT POINT.

Not mute point.

Sorry, just had to point it out since I see that all the time these days.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Quezquotyl+Oct 25 2005, 09:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Quezquotyl @ Oct 25 2005, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> In either case it really doesn't matter, because either one does nothing to validate your arguement that the ability is better than the item. [/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Blackheart
Or that supply and demand have all of a sudden increased because of the new AA ability?[/quote]
Which *was* his argument.. that a bubble would occur. So, you just said "wow, Blackheart was right".

As did Jeb earlier today by agreeing with BH's recap of his statements.

Now both of you can resume bashing BH for being wrong.. after agreeing with him.

I'm out.

[Mystiqat]

It's MOOT POINT.


One time on Friend's, Joey said it was a moo point

[Aryse Andenter]

Moot is actually a very interesting word. It originally meant simply a discussion or argument. It then became a hypothetical case (law students), and then a legal argument with no point, and finally a discussion item of no merit in the conversation. My dictionary still doesn't define it in today's terms:

moot a. that is open to argument, debatable - vt. bring for discussion - n. meeting

[Felicite]

Yay.. dictionary fun. I am too lazy to type the OED definition, but from "The American Heritage ® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition" we have:
moot n.

1. Law A hypothetical case argued by law students as an exercise.

2. An ancient English meeting, especially a representative meeting of the freemen of a shire.

tr.v. moot·ed, moot·ing, moots

1. a. To bring up as a subject for discussion or debate. b. To discuss or debate. See Synonyms at broach1.

2. Law To plead or argue (a case) in a moot court.

adj.

1. Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question.

2. a. Law Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled. b. Of no practical importance; irrelevant.


[Middle English, meeting, from Old English mt, gemt.] mootness n.

Usage Note: The adjective moot is originally a legal term going back to the mid-16th century. It derives from the noun moot, in its sense of a hypothetical case argued as an exercise by law students. Consequently, a moot question is one that is arguable or open to debate. But in the mid-19th century people also began to look at the hypothetical side of moot as its essential meaning, and they started to use the word to mean "of no significance or relevance." Thus, a moot point, however debatable, is one that has no practical value. A number of critics have objected to this use, but 59 percent of the Usage Panel accepts it in the sentence The nominee himself chastised the White House for failing to do more to support him, but his concerns became moot when a number of Republicans announced that they, too, would oppose the nomination. When using moot one should be sure that the context makes clear which sense is meant.

[Rijak]

b. Of no practical importance; irrelevant.

that's it! :lol:

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Duke Roger@Oct 25 2005, 12:15 PM
It's MOOT POINT.

Not mute point.

Sorry, just had to point it out since I see that all the time these days.
Damn the grammar nazi got me!

Ya, I'm retarded sometimes..so what.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Oct 25 2005, 08:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Oct 25 2005, 08:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Duke Roger@Oct 25 2005, 12:15 PM
It's MOOT POINT.

Not mute point.

Sorry, just had to point it out since I see that all the time these days.
Damn the grammar nazi got me!

Ya, I'm retarded sometimes..so what. [/b][/quote]
You could have played that off as intentional, wanting what has become of this thread to be a mute point :P

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Oct 25 2005, 01:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Oct 25 2005, 01:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Duke Roger@Oct 25 2005, 12:15 PM
It's MOOT POINT.

Not mute point.

Sorry, just had to point it out since I see that all the time these days.
Damn the grammar nazi got me!

Ya, I'm retarded sometimes..so what. [/b][/quote]
Please use the newer PC replacement: "grammar fascist".

Or "syntax terrorist".

Or, the for maximum sensitivity: "Word Faerie".

[Mystiqat]

MOO!!

[Warspite]

The Moops?

[Quezquotyl]

Which *was* his argument.. that a bubble would occur. So, you just said "wow, Blackheart was right".


Hmm I did?

Or that supply and demand have all of a sudden increased because of the new AA ability?

It was a question, not a statement. :P

Last night there were 5 for sale on my server! FIVE! Priced from 110k all the way up to 290k. Still, FIVE! On a server where I saw none for months at a time. Five!

The only thing I agree with BH on is that he saw five for sale like he stated before, so I guess the burden is upon him to show that the "bubble" in the market results from his little hypothesis. The only thing he presented as proof were increased numbers for sale, he didn't ask each trader why they were for sale. But BH already knows this:

And there will always be someone who can't defend their side of the discussion with facts and figures and feel they have to resort to personal attacks and insults.

So in the end, any further replies to this thread are for fun. But it is always fun to make puns at someone too. For example, "BH where are the facts supporting you claim other than the fact you noticed why the items were for sale in the bazaar for a lower price then normal?...."

I have my opinions, and I usually back things up with facts.

I.E. again "HAHAHA, that doesn't prove anything to me other than you got bored and went to the bazaar alot more, I don't see you backing this up with the facts. You suck!"

CoS is a situational item now. The proof is in the pudding. They are for sale in bazaar and not selling.

Just like they were six months to a year ago on most servers, just because they weren't for sale on your server doesn't really mean much justify this statement. So now that BH has ridden out this gravy train of an argument, I'll nitpick myself too, just so Felicite can tell herself she was right. =P



QUOTE (Quezquotyl @ Oct 25 2005, 09:52 AM)
In either case it really doesn't matter, because either one does nothing to validate your arguement that the ability is better than the item.



QUOTE (Blackheart)
2- I said CoS is much more useful than the AA. Many times.


Um.. I don't think that was his argument.

His argument, from step one was there would be more available for sale (and or for less).


Yeh yeh, I skimmed I'll admit it. I saw the following and thought it meant he thought the ability was better.

I stated the CoS is no longer invaluable.

Then I read the rest of the line later.

They have a set value. People are selling them now.

Silly me. But I still think the question:

"Is the difference between CoS and the AA worth 120k?"

Is simple enough for each person to answer for themselves. NEENER NEENER.

Since you made me make fun of myself, HAVE A POOPY TUESDAY!

[Felicite]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Bah.. you don't have to let me say I am right.. you buried me in enough reply there to hurt my head. I yield the floor!

[Quezquotyl]

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

No I had to much Mountain Dew. :lol:

[UsulDaNeriak]

http://hometown.aol.de/Neriaknecguild/sucks2.jpg

[BlackHeart]

Ok... I'll bite. Or nibble.

BH where are the facts supporting you claim other than the fact you noticed why the items were for sale in the bazaar for a lower price then normal?...."


One, I would think more in the bazaar and for cheaper prices would be enough.
Two, other people here, who play on other servers have reported the same on their servers.
Three, several people here have stated that even seeing them for sale now, they would not spend the plat, as having the AA is good enough for them, unless they start selling much cheaper.
Four, ummmm.... Because the magic Bazaar faeries told me so.

Usul, ... dude. Get some new pics. That one was funny the first 20 times or so.
Now, its kind of self decimating. It pwns itself.

[UsulDaNeriak]

i am soo sorry, but NO new pics for old arguments, bro.

however, you did bite, as you stated yourself, so you deserve an applause.

http://hometown.aol.de/Neriaknecguild/applause.gif

[FCseven]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 25 2005, 01:19 PM
there is at least one other trick that my particular race can not make use of.

frankly, i know there are more tricks than i am aware of.

.1 cast time + insta recast = many loopholes = many many tricks

its just funny, because really i cann't go into it because i know exactly what will happen "blah, blah, blah, blah, elitist, blah blah elitist doesn't wanna help the common folk.

there are just so many various tricks all over the place that you cann't give any one example with it. Everyone has come up with their own uses.

I have had mine for awhile now and suddenly i hear about how they nerfed the trick where you could shop at KoS vendors. I had no idea. The few "tricks" that are up my sleave with it have been unknown to friends that had them, and so on. It really is one of those things that is unique in the game and consistantly does things that the devs don't expect.

Not any single one of these "tricks" are why its invaluable. Its the simple fact that consistently, new uses always crop up.
The vendor trick was awsome and if it still worked I would say the cos would be worth more then in its current state.If you know of any other uses for it just come out and say it.

[Schaeffer]

If you know of any other uses for it just come out and say it.

Don't fear the reaper, fear the nerf bat...

[Feelia Flo]

I have Cloak of Shadows AA.

In MPG while soloing mobs that DONT see through invis, you can still pop up without waiting for the clear message and insta invis without aggro, even if the mob is on top of you after a bad pull....ect. Works with all mobs that do not see through invis just like the CoS does.

But ya the CoS overall imo is better, I had one on my old toon and some /cough other uses make the CoS > Cloak of Shadows AA.

[Nirruden]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Oct 26 2005, 07:25 PM
I want a hot button that does /stand and activates the CoS AA, anyone know how to do this?
/stand
/alt activate 531

At least, assuming my list of alt-sctivate numbers is valid. Speaking of which - we need an update to the alt-activation codes for AAs again. Someone got a complete list?

[Nirruden]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Oct 26 2005, 07:40 PM
thanks, was wondering what the number was =)
Google shouts, "Nirruden = pwned!"
Nirruden has been hit by an absurdly large number of documents!
Nirruden dies.

(Translation: You're welcome.)

[Brahman]

Originally posted by FCseven+Oct 25 2005, 11:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FCseven @ Oct 25 2005, 11:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Oct 25 2005, 01:19 PM
there is at least one other trick that my particular race can not make use of.

frankly, i know there are more tricks than i am aware of.

.1 cast time + insta recast = many loopholes = many many tricks

its just funny, because really i cann't go into it because i know exactly what will happen "blah, blah, blah, blah, elitist, blah blah elitist doesn't wanna help the common folk.

there are just so many various tricks all over the place that you cann't give any one example with it. Everyone has come up with their own uses.

I have had mine for awhile now and suddenly i hear about how they nerfed the trick where you could shop at KoS vendors. I had no idea. The few "tricks" that are up my sleave with it have been unknown to friends that had them, and so on. It really is one of those things that is unique in the game and consistantly does things that the devs don't expect.

Not any single one of these "tricks" are why its invaluable. Its the simple fact that consistently, new uses always crop up.
The vendor trick was awsome and if it still worked I would say the cos would be worth more then in its current state.If you know of any other uses for it just come out and say it. [/b][/quote]
you know full well what happens to the nice tricks and yet here you are asking that i get them nerfed. WTF kinda freak are you?

[Schaeffer]

A spy, he's a spy...

Linch Him!!!

[Aegrusnecrox]

AA > Prenerf

-Egg

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Aegrusnecrox@Feb 15 2007, 02:55 PM
AA > Prenerf

-Egg
Liez!

[Evillil]

Ok, maybe I'm beating a dead horse here, but for some reason when I do:
/stand
/alt activate 531
after a bad pull with the non see-invis mob on top of me, it only works MAYBE 50% of the time, about the same rate I get just manually clicking stand and mashing my AA hotbutton. I'll pop up and be invised pretty much instantly, but still have aggro. And usually if it's after a bad pull that means I've probably already been smacked once or twice so I'm down around 60% hp or so and if it fails, well then I'm toast. This is just in the course of normal grinding exp mobs that don't see invis. Is there something I'm doing wrong or is it supposed to be this unreliable?

Thanks for the help,
Evillil Bastage
75 necro
The Rathe

[Schaeffer]

If it still works the way I understand, that sounds about right. If your mob is still in aggro range, you have to make sure you stand and invis between aggro checks. If you stand and the tic hits before you invis, you've re-aquired aggro.

The other way for it to fail is if your mob hasn't completely cleared aggro, then your tic timing won't matter regardless, you'll still have old aggro.

[Evillil]

Hmmm, strange, is there any way to know when I'm between aggro ticks or is it pretty much just a guessing game? It seemed to be working much more reliably when I was doing it on lower level mobs while pling my wizzy, but when I'm grinding AA for myself, it's hit or miss. I only use it if I'm being really impatient, or if I'm feeling risky, haha. Thanks for the info.

Evillil Bastage
75 necro
The Rathe

[Zandramadass]

It could also be lag that is allowing your stand command to be read but attempting to cast the invis before completing your stand command. Trying adding a short pause into it like:

/pause 3, /stand
/alt activate 531


That fraction of a second pause could be all it takes to complete your stand prior to attempting to cast.

[Evillil]

I was thinking it could possibly be something due to lag causing the problem, or just my computer bogging down at the wrong times, which is entirely possible. I mash the invis AA button while I'm standing though usually to try to give it a better chance to succeed. (Which is usually followed by the immediate mashing of the FD AA hotkey when it fails, haha.) I'll try adding that pause in there though, maybe I'll get lucky. Thanks a ton.

[Azrioth]

I should reactivate my account and sell it imo. Circlet and Slime Blood anyone?