Radical Herecy

[Neme Sis]

I know my theories have been decried as heresy by most. But I thought that I owed everyone an update. First a recap on my theory:

Don’t level up to 65 and then get AA like most posts tell you to. I stopped at lvl 51 and got 12 points and spent them ALL. That’s right…. I spent them all – RS3, Regen3, INT5, and the only mistake of STA1.

Then I leveled up to 55 in 5 session. That’s 1 level every time I played. It’s amazing how fast the game goes when the mobs can’t catch you, your regen nearly keeps up with your Lich, and your mana pool is 10% larger than allowed by the 255 INT cap because you have +10 higher Base INT vs. Armor INT.

At 55, I stopped again and put 100% to AA. This time I purchased SCM2, SCF1, CF1, and MC1. Then I slammed it all back to exp. What was breath taking is that I was able to get in groups in PoV and cast all night long with only 3 fizzles and maybe 5 resists total. My dps was equal to higher lvl players (even though I had to cast more stacked spells to get it there). See, I never ran out of mana: Larger mana pool, fewer resists, fewer fizzles, less mana used per cast, faster mana regen, faster HP regen, faster running, and Critical Blasts (once reserved only for Wizards and the like).

I leveled 2 levels in 2 sessions. I am now sitting on lvl 57 and have many friends who like to group with a necro that has 24AA. The Sage title is cool as well.

Two more sessions and I will be lvl 59… and you guessed it… I will slam my AA back to 100%, get Lich, and save up a few AA for the new abilities in Gates of Discord.

Meanwhile a Necro friend of mine that plays about as often as I do is lvl 62 with no AA. The real proof will be when he and I are at 65 together and he has as many AA as I do. But even he admits he may never catch me at this rate.

Hmmm…. I guess those developers at Varent must have known what they were doing when they designed the system after all. Amazing!

hehe

[deathtognomes]

At 57 you will not be doing more damage than a level 61 necro with thier new pet spell, as they will have a level 60ish pet, and you will have a level 40ish one. Its not even funny how much more damage that pet will do. Plus, you send your pet in a second too soon, and he will get insta-gibbed, unlike the level 61 pet which can take a few rounds against stuff in PoV, which is more than enough to get it slowed and have a tank in front of it.

24AA will net you about the effect of 15% mana preservation, if that, which equates to perhaps 1 extra cast per 2 or 3 mobs, which will NOT be more than the DPS difference in your pet.

Let me tell ya, from a non-necro point of view, when I get in a group, and see a skeleton pet or even a light-blue con spectre (EoT) I count down the seconds till the necro leaves and I get someone that is able to pull thier own weight.

24AA + crappy skele-pet is NOT better than 0AA and sweet PoP pet. I will take a level 65 0AA necro over a level 57 250AA necro any day.

[Neme Sis]

Your ignorance is stunning. I suppose we now know whom the 15 year old was that came up with the original post to level up to 65 and then do AA. You have many faithful followers.

But I will help you out with your ignorance a little. Necros don’t simply get the same pet over and over only stronger. We get different class pets. We don’t have a “40ish” pet, but:

At 39 we a Warrior with 1000 HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, and duel wield.
At 44 we get a Warrior with 1300HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 49 we get Warrior with 2300HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.

At 53 we get a Rogue with 1400HP, Backstab, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 56 we get a Monk with 1700HP, Flying Kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 59 we get a Spectre Warrior with 2700, bash, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap and immune to fear (no kick).

At 61 we get a Warrior with 3000, kick, bash, dbl atk, duel wield, enrage, life tap and immune to fear.

A good necro will call different pets for different purposes. Just like a good leader will either take smart players or ones such as you.

By the way, 15% extra mana (which is an incorrect estimate… you must be a tank) still equals 450 mana at my level. That’s a tad more than 1 cast every 2 to 3 mobs. And in case you haven’t noticed, your lvl 65 necro friends are not casting ALL 23 DoTs they have in EVERY single fight. They are selecting 2 or 3. I said that I would cast 4 or 5 to make up the difference (something you would know I can do with the left over mana… had you been paying attention).

As to pulling my own weight, I have found that pulling, kiting, dotting, blasting, sicking a pet, splitting, fearing, mezzing adds, healing the brainless tank that doesn’t understand alternative ways to play the game, dumping mana, rezzing the cleric, stripping the mob of STR, STA, HP, ATK, and AC and then passing it along to my group… has certainly convinced my group-mates that I "pull my own weight". What is it that you do again? Oh yeah… join a group and bully people till they leave. Let joy be unconfined. I certainly see how you would bring soooo much more to a group than a lowly player such as me.

But I did not post this to invite whacky ignorant comments. Nor did I post so I could insult people back. I posted because I found a new technique that I thought might help others. Your last statement you made about taking “…a level 65 0AA necro over a level 57 250AA necro any day” proves you missed my point. My experiment will not be over until I am 65 and my friend is 65.

He will get to 65 before me and then he will start working on AA. The question is: Can he get to 65 with 48AA before I get to 65 with 48AA. The fact that I am cutting through whole levels in one session of 4 hours when it took him 3 to 4 sessions of longer than 4 hours suggests that I will make it before he will. My point is that it may be easier and faster to level up by using AA when they are introduced along the way rather than the traditional method of leveling up to 65 and then working on AA.

[Aneastin]

Not to jump into a flame war but just to clarify a few points.

But I will help you out with your ignorance a little. Necros don’t simply get the same pet over and over only stronger. We get different class pets. We don’t have a “40ish” pet, but:

49. Invoke death 41 1700-2350 (War)
53. Minion of shadows(rogue pet) 43 1100-1400 (rogue)
56. Servant of bones(monk pet) 44 1400-1700 (Monk)
59. Emissary of Thule(spectre pet) 45 2400-2700 (War)

Those are all 40ish pets.

I believe LOZ is a 50ish Warrior I believe 52 but not certain.

A good necro will call different pets for different purposes.

Thats true up to a point. Once you get either EOT or LOZ your rogue pet won't be able to keep pace as far as DPS goes. It also won't stand up to the higher level mobs. So the neat trick of calling different pets for different things really becomes a moot point from 59 until 63 when you get your next rogue pet.

I won't trash your technique because I honestly don't think it is a bad way to do things. I guess it all depends on what you're after. If you want the fastest path to 65, then your path isn't it. If you want to get the most out of each level, then your path is as good as any.

I can't really comment about who will reach 65 with 48 AA's faster you or your friend because I don't know how your friend plays his toon. I would guess that something is wrong if it is taking him 3-4 times as long to level as you. With 9 AA's I only play casually and it takes me 4-5 hours (grouped 3.5-4.5 solo) per level except for 59 and 61 which both seem to be 3 times as long as the other levels(6 times as long as 60). Out of those 4-5 hours 1 1/2 - 2 are spent lfg.

Regardless of how you choose to play have fun.

[nethyia]

About how long is it taking you to get all the AAs? You might be getting 1 level in a 4 hour session, but then you also went quite a few sessions, I imagine, getting no levels, while working on AAs, and was curious about how many sessions to get the 24 AAs. Also, when you get 59, have you decided which AAs you would be getting?

Please don't take this as a flame. It was actually interesting to see someone taking the path less traveled. I am currently 40, and trying to decide where my AAs will be going, and when. Despite everyone going for levels over AAs, its seems like those levels would be easier with the AAs. Guess it depends on if you want levels over AAs.

But like Aneastin said, it sounds like you and your friend play quite a bit differently, even apart from the leveling vs. AA approach, so this wouldn't be a fair test of which method is better. There is no right or wrong way to play a toon (well, constantly jumping off cliffs might be considered a wrong way, but hey if that's what you to do with your toon, I guess that's the right way for you).

Good luck in you hunting,

Nethyia, Wielder of the Dark Arts

[Schaeffer]

At 59 an average MoB that you would solo would give you 1% to 1.5% regular XP per kill if you put all on Reg XP. That Same MoB will give you 3% - 4% AA XP if you had it all into that. At 65 when it is moot to put XP into regular XP, that same MoB will give you 1% AA per kill. At 65 it is harder to find MoB's that give that kind of percentage into AA, in which you can handle in an efficient manner, (i.e. no downtime)

Therefore, my suggestion is to suck it up until 55 or 56 put 100% into AA, bang out 6AA in one or two sessions and get your Run3, Regen3. Then suck it up till 60 and bang out you're SCM3 and/or your SCF3, or even IND3. Then you can split it up a little and get you some DC and some LB and some WTD and some other fun stuff. Enough to keep you happy with new spells, and new abilities.

[Tomandny]

I like poster's idea. I play a lot......
If I leave my exp at all normal. I'd be 65 by now, but I already have spells that I don't even know what they would be best for. I think "practice" (AA sessions) is only going to make you a better Necro.
I only have half of what poster stated, but it (for me) was what I was/am looking for in EQ. Just another way of coming to the same destination.
For me, getting to 65 is not the ultimate.

[Vaelhan]

If your into having a ''title'' or a few xtra things when you reach 65 then sure do aa's if your looking for raw power and speed go straight to 65 then do aa's, average aaxp gain for someone under 62 = 1 maybe 2 a day 6hr sessions, aaxp for 62+ in bot = 4-5 a day easy with good grp 6hr session and thats an easy estimate, can do way more then that early in the morning when no one else is on. Snag a leet grp and just go at it, since no one's in the zone can move as you clear shiz. Your friend must either not play as much as you or still be figuring out how he likes his toon. Not to flame though, for those without uber ammounts of money its a fairly good way to increase the stats you need for free, just takes more time.



Vaelhan Hemafier - Tunare

[deathtognomes]

Originally posted by Neme Sis@Jan 23 2004, 11:39 PM
We get different class pets. We don’t have a “40ish” pet, but:

At 39 we a Warrior with 1000 HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, and duel wield.
At 44 we get a Warrior with 1300HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 49 we get Warrior with 2300HP, bash, kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.

At 53 we get a Rogue with 1400HP, Backstab, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 56 we get a Monk with 1700HP, Flying Kick, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap.
At 59 we get a Spectre Warrior with 2700, bash, dbl atk, duel wield, life tap and immune to fear (no kick).

At 61 we get a Warrior with 3000, kick, bash, dbl atk, duel wield, enrage, life tap and immune to fear.

A good necro will call different pets for different purposes.
Ok, looksie here genius.

The level 39 pet is level 33.
The level 44 pet is level 37.
The level 49 pet is level 41.
The level 53 pet is level 43.
The level 56 pet is level 44.
The level 59 pet is level 45.

The level 61, 63, and 65 pets are level 60......

Yes....15 LEVELS HIGHER.

Yes, level 60, with higher skill-caps and ATK ratings. Don't think that your pets have skill caps or ATK ratings? Then why is it that lower level pets don't double attack often, and once your pet starts to duel weild, it doesnt do that reliably until higher levels too? Its because they are based on the class model for a PC of the same level...

There a big difference in a level 45 and a level 60 warrior, in the same gear, with the same weapons, attacking the same mob? Of course there is! The difference is HUGE. Not to mention the fact that the level 60 warrior will resist spells MUCH more often as well.

You think your shitty level 40ish pet is going to hit the mobs in PoP/LDoN anywhere near as often as the level 60 pet? No. They won't. Just like a level 45 warrior is going to miss miss miss miss miss, so will your pet.

In 95% of the groups I am in with necros, their fights go like this:

Send pet. Cast Darkness (if they are snarer). Cast 1 dot (if the mobs are lasting more than 30 seconds, which isnt often). Cast Neurotoxin 1-2 times. Cast a lifetap/lifetap dot every few mobs.

You, on the other hand, would do this:

Send pet, watch is miss 80% of the time. Cast darkness, watch it resisted 50% of the time, since you are in your 50's, and the mobs are red/yellow to you, instead of dark blue. Cast Chill bones....YAY! 500DD nukage....thats worse than even a shaman could do at that level...if its not resisted too. Cast Vex Mord, and wait to leach more exp off the next mob.

I regularly group with a level 65 necro with about 50AA, and have a friend whom I group with a lot, whom has a tag-along necro friend, who is 57 with about 100AA....

I HATE when the level 57 necro groups with us, cause she is good for two things: jack, and sh!t. Compared to the rest of the group, her DPS is low, and her utility is non-existant. She can't reliably snare in LDoN due to mana-issues and resists, and her 500 point nukes add little to the groups DPS.

Lets see what a level 65 necro can do for the group that you cant, besides send a decent pet, and nuke for 1260-1300...

He can:

Increase the groups health regen by 80/tick.
Cast a pet that will backstab for 200+
Mez up to level 65 undead
Regain mana nearly 2x as fast, at a MUCH better hp/mana ratio
Regain health much faster

and much much more.

Oh, and while you are somewhere like burning woods or skyfire, kiting away at level 59, your level 65 buddy is in HoH in a pet-kiting group, racking up an AA an hour, laughing all the way.

[Neme Sis]

deathtognomes, you are missing my whole point. please re-read.

I am saying that in the zones in which I am playing (like PoV), my pet is doing fine. Also, I am not being resisted or fizzling 85% of the time as you would suggest. Also, my friend plays about as much as I do. I am being invited into more groups sometimes due to my AA where he has to solo more. Also, he is fissling more and being resisted more. Also, my death to his death ratio has been changing. And even though we get 96% rezzes more often at this level, death time is still down time... and that adds into the equation.

My point was quite the opposite than yours. I am NOT fizzling nor am I being resisted by mobs one would expect to resist me. Without anything scientific, I am noticing that I am having about the same impact as a lvl 60 player in the same situation.

My groups certainly don't seem to mind, and I have convinced many players to go for some AA along the way because they SEE the difference. I am sorry that you are so myopic.

And your post is so extremely hyperbolic that it is hard to take you seriously... who wouldn't prefer a 65 necro with 25AA to a 57 with 50AA? that is just crazy talk.

What I am attempting is to prove a theory, not piss you off. I have enjoyed some of the more reasoned posts of descent because I am learning from them. But it is obvious that you got your little bitty feelers hurt by something I said. Sorry, hun.

Which brings me to my bigger point. There are some players so blinded by their biggotry that they will not even consider other ideas. These are the ones that follow blindly the posts of that fictitious 15 year old I mentioned earlier. I see he has yet another fan.

Thank you all for your posts. Please continue to post and teach me as hopefully my test will help teach you and others what is possible.

Hehe - to be honest... the few ignorant ravings are fun to read as well... takes my mind off the nasty weather outside or a few minutes.

[deathtognomes]

Originally posted by Neme Sis@Jan 25 2004, 07:33 PM
I am saying that in the zones in which I am playing (like PoV), my pet is doing fine. Also, I am not being resisted or fizzling 85% of the time as you would suggest. Also, my friend plays about as much as I do. I am being invited into more groups sometimes due to my AA where he has to solo more. Also, he is fissling more and being resisted more.
You pet is nothing more than a level 41-44 warrior, rogue or monk....and a crappy one at that, being that a level 41 warrior would out tank and out DPS your level 49 pet with all the new high AC high DPS gear out ther for cheap.

Last I checked, you have to be level 46 just to zone into PoTranq, and level 55 or flagged to get to PoV...so there is no way a level 41 warrior or a level 43 rogue or a level 44 monk is going to be doing "fine" in PoV. Hell, I would like to see the hit/miss ratio of you level 56 pet against anything in PoV. I would wager its less than 40% hits, and less than 50% the DPS that the level 61 pet does.

You pet would /con GREEN to most people in PoV, and green to the mobs there... the level 61, 63 or 65 pet would be 1-2 levels lower than most of the mobs, and even to some...thats a HUGE difference. Plus, seeing a green con skele pet in PoV is just laughable.

Second. AA doesnt show up in the LFG tool. When you are in a group, and looking to fill a DPS slot and you see:

soandso 57 necro potranq LFG
soandso 61 necro potranq LFG

who do you think is going to get the invite?

Lastly....

Resist rate is SOLELY based on the spell cast, the mob, the mobs level, and the players level....that is ALL. There is no "get resisted less" AA skill (aside from Bards "Jam Fest" skill, and that only makes the songs act as if sung by a bard 5 levels higher...ie higher level = less resists).

Fizzle rate is based on casting skill and specialization skill, spell level, and player level. As you level above a spell, you will fizzle less and less on it, thats why you fizzle on you level 51 spells more at 51 than when you cast them at 65.

You friend is NOT being resisted more. You friend is NOT fizzling more.


Oh, and lets say you don't have a chanter and you are going to root-park an add...you would have to use a regular root spell, and it will be resisted a good deal, and last a short time, compared to the level 62 root, which has a -30 MR adjust to it. So again, your friend is going to be resisted less.

---------------------------------------------------

If you are going to advocate grinding AA before level 65, at least have reasons for doing so that are valid or make sense. I am still grinding AA before I go to 61 on my shaman. Why? because at 60 I get 2 spells that VASTLY increase my power, torpor and malo. At 61 I get a pet that is VASTLY superior to ANY pre-PoP pet.

Why am I staying at 61? Because I want to keep solo spots viable. I don't want to have places I like to hunt turn green to me. Why not grind at 59? Because the spells I get at 60 and 61 add so much to my power that I am able to take out MUCH harder mobs MUCH easier than I could at 59, increasing my AA/hour rate.

The same goes for necros. At 60 you get Arch Lich, Funeral Pyre, and Z theft of Vit. At 61, you get a pet that BLOWS away all the pet before it. LoZ would slaughter EoT in a unbuffed head to head duel, and that is a REALLY good indication of how much better it is than EoT. At 62, you get a REALLY REALLY good lifetap-dot, which increases your mana-tick rate a LOT, helps you stay alive A LOT and allows you to life-bond your pet and tank with him, rather than kite, allowing you to solo in places you otherwise couldn't.

90% of the good places to solo at 59 will still be 90% as good at 62...but you will be able to kill MUCH faster and safer, meaning more AA per hour. Past 61/62 there are quite a few places that will turn light blue and green, so sticking at 61 or 62 to grind AA is a good idea. Staying a level away from spells that GREATLY increase your power is just silliness.

[Neme Sis]

It is really difficult discussing things with know-it-alls… especially when they don’t.

Resistance and Fizzle are very much part of a specialization track. And Archetype AA is very much involved in Specialization Enhancement. So… AA does decrease the amount of resistance (except maybe for yours towards new ideas) and fizzle. Please look up Spell Casting Mastery and Channeling Focus before posting any more nonsense. Oh and Spell Casting Fury allows me to crit-blast some… which increases my dps greatly.

On the LFG tool, you are allowed to put in a comment. I put in “24AA, planes please”. So they see that along with my 57 Necro tag. (are you really this ignorant? Or just putting on a show here?)

And do you use root-park when you are in a kite group? Now you are just using plain silly-talk. You would keep it snared, and kite with Poison Bolt if you don’t have a ranger or druid around… or as in my case, since groups see I fizzle less and am resisted less, they use me as a 2nd kiter for chain pulling.

Your whole second half of your argument is a good choice for you. By the way… I haven’t really flamed you yet… but Shamies seem to be turned down most for the pet groups I get invited to. Not really sure why, but I know I get invited more often than shamies.

… go figure.

[Neme Sis]

Oh yeah... and remember the title for this post was "Radical Herecy". I knew there were some out there that would fight against new ideas with everthing they got.

[Aneastin]

Spell Casting Mastery - Type: Passive; Max - 3; Cost - 2; Requirements: Level - 55, Must spend 6 ability points in the General Abilities; This ability gives you an increased chance of making your specialization checks. It also reduces your chance to fizzle (or miss song notes) and increases the chance to lower the mana cost for the spell by 5, 15, and 30 percent.

Specialization
What does it do?
Whenever you cast a spell, there is a chance that the specialization bonus will kick in. The higher your specialization skill in the respective field of magic the higher the chance of the bonus kicking in. The bonus will do two things:


Reduce the mana cost of the spell.

Reduce the chance of fizzling.
Specialization does NOT increase your chance of recovering after interruption. This is based purely on Channeling. Specialization does NOT make your spells cast faster. This is a fixed amount.

deathtognomes is correct about the AA not effecting the resist rate. His description of how resists are calculated was also correct.

As for Shammies; I would really question the leadership of any kite group that would turn away a Shammy. Necros and Shammies have the best dots in the game, their buffs make the entire group better, they can root park, off-tank, pet tank, heal and lets not forget the best slows in the game. I would have serious concerns with anyone that would turn all that down.

[Neme Sis]

hmm... what is your source for that info? i have some info that says something quite different.

[Aneastin]

SCM AA Info
alakhazam's http://everquest.allakhazam.com/EQAbilities.htm
Graffe http://www.graffe.com/
EQ Casters http://eq.crgaming.com/archetype/Details.asp?Id=24

Specilization Description
Eq Casters http://eq.crgaming.com/misc/pages/special.asp
EQ Shaman http://eqshaman.com/shaman/skills/special.html
RPG Expert http://www.rpgexpert.com/384.html

[Neme Sis]

Woot! I accomplished my goal! The icon for this string is RED! hehe.

Thanks everyone for contributing and for the lively discussion. I still think my way is better... but to each their own.

[Goshozal Sans Merci]

There is one other significant fact at stake here, which was my reason for level first, AA later.

A necro's raw dps expands drastically after 60. 60 is FPoK, which is great, 63 is Horror, which is AMAZING, 65 is BoT, which is also incredible. This does not include the HUGE upgrades in DPS from the pets, Dark Plague, Saryrn's Kiss, Neurotoxin, and the see-it-to-believe-it mana regen from Seduction of Saryrn. There is absolutely not even the slightest contest between a 65 necro with zero AA's and a 59 or 60 necro with 24 when it comes to pure dps. I went for the levels first, and since AA's are a *joke* for a 65 necro, I'm very leisurely taking them and LDoN augs on.

I still hold very firm that levels benefit the most, followed by gear, followed by AA's, followed by augs.

Edit- to clear up my point, yes, Nem, you are correct that a 55 necro with 24 AA's is probably comparable if not better than a 58 or 59 with none. However, 60+ is a whoooole different ballgame.

[NeSikWay]

well, Neme Sis, if you are enjoying the game, for get the gnomehater guy, he just likes to cause trouble. Its a game, have fun, It is a player individual choice to do AA rather than regulater exp.

From the EXP/AA work I've done, I have a couple of notes.

first, I always have my 100% either AA or EXP, percentages don't appear to really give you what you think, and I don't know how well splits are really handled.

second, I hear lvl 60 is a great place to stop and get exp, its and easy lvl compared to most of the upper lvls, and after lvl 60 there are some major changes in the game. If you have others who don't like your light blue pet, there is LDON which you will do just fine in and get good exp, and there are several other places, and PoV best I can tell is great for the 55 to 60 lvl grind.

third, I did see some impressive numbers with the inate Int, and imagine the that inate sta might do the same for us. Then go with the regen3 then the run3.

these are simple suggestions.

I do plan on doing a AA exp at lvl 60 for a while, not for a title, but to make the game more interesting for me.

[Fizzleplink]

/agree NeSikWay for most part.

One thing I noticed with my other characters (all slowly leveled up and actually played) -- 61 seemed to be a sweet spot for them for xp, more so for the caster/priest types than melees. Much of the old world still gives good xp at 61, and gets a bit easier with your bigger pet. 60 > 61 isn't as big for necros as it is for shaman, for example.

[Aneastin]

second, I hear lvl 60 is a great place to stop and get exp, its and easy lvl compared to most of the upper lvls, and after lvl 60 there are some major changes in the game. If you have others who don't like your light blue pet, there is LDON which you will do just fine in and get good exp, and there are several other places, and PoV best I can tell is great for the 55 to 60 lvl grind.

Personally, I would wait til 61 to stop. You can still get decent xp with old world mobs at 61. Our 61 pet is a huge increase in power and can pretty much tear up any of the old world mobs. You will be able to kill mobs quicker and with more mana after 61 so you will gain AAxp quicker. Finally, 60 is such a short level that it takes no time to get through for alot of benefits once you have gotten to 61.

[Persephonae]

Originally posted by Aneastin@Jan 28 2004, 05:21 PM
Personally,* I would wait til 61 to stop.* You can still get decent xp with old world mobs at 61.* Our 61 pet is a huge increase in power and can pretty much tear up any of the old world mobs.* You will be able to kill mobs quicker and with more mana after 61 so you will gain AAxp quicker.* Finally, 60 is such a short level that it takes no time to get through for alot of benefits once you have gotten to 61.
I guess I'm in the middle camp. I'm 56 with 5 AA at the moment. I kicked my AA XP to 10% when I dinged 51 and got 1 AA from that between 51 & 56. The other 4 AA I've gotten from getting PoP flags and hailing the dorf guy in PoK for the charm upgrade & "free AA." I'm pondering churning out the last AA for Baroness just to get the silly title since I'm close anyway.

Having other 65 toons, I have to say that I instinctively wince when I see a level 65 Baron/ess (or no title at all) join a group of level 65 players.

I'd sort of half consciously planned to do run 3/regen 3 & probably SCM3 prior to 65 but save the bulk of my AAing till I got done levelling just to not be "That Guy"

That being said, I've done a good bit of playing around with the 49, 53 and 56 pets and am honestly longing for my next pet upgrade & wondering how fast I can get thru the levels to get it.

It seems like the upper 50s have incentives at each level to make me want to level more than AA.

Level 57 is a small coffin summon corpse & Vexing Mordinia. Level 58 is Mind Wrack. Level 59 is the EoT pet. Level 60 a banquet of spells: Arch Lich, Death Peace, Funeral Pyre, and Level 61 is the LoZ pet.

61-62 seems like a natural breaking point to do some AA for me. Depending on whether I have the 63 pet spell and what other 63-65 spells I have will probably determine how much time I spend there.

I did the push to 65 when PoP first came out with a priest class. And I felt lame enough having to repeatedly explain that I didn't have any of the relevant spells even tho I was level 65, that, despite the arguements for racing straight to 65, I'd rather have, at the very least, my 65 pet before I ding for the last time.

[Aneastin]

My biggest incentive to push through to 65 and then get my AA's is that the GOD AA's have a 65 lev requirement. If it wasn't for Critical Affliction, then I would spend more time on AAxp instead of charging straight through to 65. All that I was saying above is that if you want to stop to gather AAxp don't do it at 60. Get LOZ first and you will have a much easier time gathering your AAXP.

[Doomfir]

I am kinda in the middle of the road concerning AA'a and when to get them. I agree that a vast majority of your power doesn't come into play till you hit post 60, and ESP at 64 when you get ToD, and then again at 65 when you get BoT.

However, it isnt all about dmg in being a necro or even in playing the game. Many times you rexperience is related to your survivability. What do I mean by this? Well, if you go into a dungeon that offers good experience at your current level, but die all the time then you aren't achieving anything very fast.

Case in point would be run3. As you know, you cant sow in a dungeon and at 55 or so, without it you cant run accelerated in any dungeon. I remember dieing so often in many dungeons, because I couldn't outrun the mobs that were chasing me. Once I got Run3 it was no sweat and I would escape most of the time if I was close enough to the zone. In the case of run3, I definitely think you should get it asap. Waiting till you are 65 would just slow your experience down and increase frustration because you are going to die more often.

What I personally did with aa's was increase my AA percentage the closer I got to 65. When I hit 65 and insured it, I went 90% aa. At 55 I went 100% aa till I got R3 then went to 90% reg and 10% aa. Then when I hit 60 I went 80 / 20. When I hit 65 as I stated I went 10 / 90.

What this did is insure I got a few aa'a on the way up to 65 and yet not slow my leveling down much at all. All I can say is to each his own, but R3 is a must no matter how you cutt it.

As I look back over it, I should have gotten Dire Charm earlier so I could have gotten better gear earlier (at 59 a dire charm pet in places like veksar would have totally rocked for both exp and to have that much a jump in power over my EoT pet). Since it would have helped me farm good droppable gear I could have gotten better armor sooner more than likely. Most of my gear I had gotten with my rogue in BoT but it still would have saved him doing allot of the work.

[Schaeffer]

I just want to say something about run 3. Until you actually get it, you really can't know how much of a difference it makes. My first charcter was a ranger and so I never had a problem getting from here to there. If SoW wore off, I'd zone re-SoW and zone back into the dungeon. My first two AA's went into regen. I spent alot of time in Veksar and that run is not a fun one. One morning when I had off from work I decided to go solo in Veksar for a while and couldn't find a SoW. I asked this one Ranger for a SoW, and he said, I'm a warrior. I said, "You don't have to lie, if your too busy, a simple sorry, no time would do." Then he tried to redeem himself saying that a Forest Stalker is a woodelf warriors title at 65. He must really have thought I was stupid. So I told him "Oh, that's funny cause my Ranger's title is Forest Stalker too!" So he said, "Fine bug off and get run 3 gimp." And so I said to myself, "Self, you go get your Run 3 right now!!!" and I did and I shoulda got it before regen 3.

[Jebasiz]

I Just skimmed, rants kinda turn me off to reading alot of shit.

1. A 65 necro with 0 aa is going to get a group before a level 57 necro with 250aa most of the time.

2. Legacy of Zek (61 pet, warrior) is more dps then any pet before him.

3. 55-61 A level per day/session is pretty damn common if your hunting in PoP especially since they Opened PoV/PoS to you.

4. I still believe strongly, AA'ing before 61 is slowing your overall exping. If you like killing more of the same mobs to get from A to B go right ahead, it's your time not mine....it's just not something (I don't think) most people set out to do intentionally.

5. Asking for advice and then flaming the people giving it to you is fucking lame...
it's only an opinion(like everything else is on this board) and you asked for it, read it, say thank you, take what you can from it and if you don't like it STFU. If the information that's posted is incorrect I'm sure someone else will come along shortly and correct it.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jan 30 2004, 12:12 PM
I Just skimmed, rants kinda turn me off to reading alot of shit.

5. Asking for advice and then flaming the people giving it to you is fucking lame...
it's only an opinion(like everything else is on this board) and you asked for it, read it, say thank you, take what you can from it and if you don't like it STFU. If the information that's posted is incorrect I'm sure someone else will come along shortly and correct it.
Tis the nature of the flame, however in defense, gnomehater shammy boy is a trouble maker who likes to pick fights and his opinions don't come without insulting everyone else that posted before him so it's quite easy to lose it and get defensive...

[Skova]

Hehe some good posts here. I have stated much the same thing as the original poster. I would like to add though something overlooked on the pet thing. LOZ may be able to take EOT in a straight up fight but what happens when player A with EOT has spent their AAs on pet LOH, and player B has not? all of a sudden the fight gets more interesting. Not saying EOT will win now but its not quite the overpowering mosh that you claimed at one time!

I believe the benefits of AAs are much better at lower levels than they are at higher levels. But i do speak from a soloers point of view. It seems to me all those AAs in run3 regen3 ind3 and many others isnt going to save you wen the raid mob decides you look like a tasty morsel and quads you for 500+ each hit. you ARE going down if fd fails. but when the mobs arent so tough the AAs can make a life saving difference.

My guild didnt understand this philosophy either. I had many people question me about why i do AAs as i level instead of waiting. Now there are no questions and many in my guild have titles long before they reach 60. Ask a ranger if they would rather wait for 65 to get their bow AAs. Same goes with every other class in game. They can see what those AAs have done for my ability to solo as well as what i bring to a group because of them. They decide for themselves how the AAs work best for them and what they bring to a group because of them. Next time you have to offtank an add with your pet so the group survives watch to see if you dont say to yourself "boy i wish i had pet loh" That one AA just allowed a pet to live twice as long as another pet of = level. One AA just made the difference between pulling through and total wipe The 65 will stand there and say "its not my fault my pet is badass. Had to be you" At 65 they expect you to be badass. why couldnt your pet last just a few seconds longer? At lower levels there is no expectation of power, so when you pull it off because of an AA you become the hero not the scapegoat!

I enjoyed the post about killing the same mob to get from point A to point B. hehe isnt that exactly what you do when you hit 65 and decide to finally work on AAs? Look at it from a soloers point of view. How many mobs at level 51 could you solo to get good exp and AAexp? now look at 65. How many DB mobs are you gonna solo that gives comparable exp, AA or otherwise, without a group? I believe some of the highr level people who post here have agreed at 65 they are too few and too far between. Even at 60 i find my available soloable mobs are much fewer than any level previous to 60. If you find yourself in groups alot then you wont have so much trouble but not being able to get a group doesnt always come down to what level you are. Sometimes its just a matter of the server not being populated enough. Sometimes it comes down to the fact that being an underpopulated server there is an inordinate amount of solo classes and someone will mistakenly take the higher level ones first.

I have been told time and again i give more to a group at 60 than most of the 65s others have played with. I accomplish this in spite of the fact i usually only cast 2 or three spells when in a group and only one or 2 is a dot. I think alot of necros see what they can do solo and believe that the dps they add far outweighs any other thing they can do. In a group situation there is so many things we can bring it is daunting to think about and DPS is just a side effect of those things. Please dont support the stereotype of necros are good for dps only. I add very little to DPS in groups yet i outplay most necros 5 levels higher. This from the mouths of other 65 characters who have experienced both sides of the coin

[Neme Sis]

Additional follow up...

I have abandoned the exp and AA trail long enough to do the Coldain Prayer Shawl track...

Interesting enough, in both the 4th shawl where I had to spawn the death sqad no less than 15 times before finding the dorf and the chrystaline spiders in Velks (solo) for number 5, I can tell you that in a mere 7% exp of lvl 57, I have cast no less than 4 critical blasts at critical moments where my pet was dead and I was low on mana. It is good to do 413 points damage and get 413 points heal at the end of a fight.

A necro simply can not do this without SPF1 or better.

Also, in MANY dangerous situations I have survived with only 1 death in all - mostly due to my AA points I have spent.

I suppose you could level up to 65, get a bunch of AA and all these would be green... but where is the fun in that?

hehe.

[Jebasiz]

Hehe some good posts here. I have stated much the same thing as the original poster. I would like to add though something overlooked on the pet thing. LOZ may be able to take EOT in a straight up fight but what happens when player A with EOT has spent their AAs on pet LOH, and player B has not? all of a sudden the fight gets more interesting. Not saying EOT will win now but its not quite the overpowering mosh that you claimed at one time!

So once every 30mins you have a pet on par with LoZ, yet you still loose a substantial amount of dps.

I enjoyed the post about killing the same mob to get from point A to point B. hehe isnt that exactly what you do when you hit 65 and decide to finally work on AAs? Look at it from a soloers point of view. How many mobs at level 51 could you solo to get good exp and AAexp? now look at 65. How many DB mobs are you gonna solo that gives comparable exp, AA or otherwise, without a group? I believe some of the highr level people who post here have agreed at 65 they are too few and too far between.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. At 65 there is no end to blue, even, yellow, and red cons I can exp off of if I want to. Tonight I got 4 aa's in a few hours grouped in sol ro tower, a level 57 isn't gonna get that invite. 8 pieces of loot(2 pieces of ornate) 2 runes, 2 spectrals (and a few ethereals that I didn't count) dropped.

It's all your game, do what ya want...the question was when is the best time to AA. In my and several others opinion that time is 61-65, where a necromancer is most efficient/strongest, and can fight in the widest variety of areas. It's your $13/month(roughly, more if your european) do what you want. I will say though, if your not averaging an AA an hour...it's not worth the time. There's soon to be around 700aa points total for our class, possibly much more...drag each one out if you want to, I'll be getting 2 an hour grouped, and possibly better then that solo at 65.

I have been told time and again i give more to a group at 60 than most of the 65s others have played with. I accomplish this in spite of the fact i usually only cast 2 or three spells when in a group and only one or 2 is a dot. I think alot of necros see what they can do solo and believe that the dps they add far outweighs any other thing they can do. In a group situation there is so many things we can bring it is daunting to think about and DPS is just a side effect of those things. Please dont support the stereotype of necros are good for dps only. I add very little to DPS in groups yet i outplay most necros 5 levels higher. This from the mouths of other 65 characters who have experienced both sides of the coin

At 60 you have all the group spells that people see on their buff bar that a 65 does.
So it can seem like your doing the exact same thing a 65 is. Also there are alot of people who are 65 now that got their very quickly and haven't adapted their playstyle to group settings, and if those are the 65's saying you outplayed them, more-then-likely it's true. However, unless your in an advanced PoP guild you don't have access to alot of content until 62, thus being one of the MAIN reasons people say 61-62 for aa's. At 60 your best nuke is..is...umm well shit, you don't really have a best nuke yet, it's at 61, neurotoxin. Crit your damn heart out with deflux, Touch of mujaki is still more dmg and healing, non-crit. Crit with neurotoxin and it's 2600 dmg, crit it with a dmg focus and bard in your group, and you can break 3k dmg. You can't come close to that at 60. Undead mez, death peace is 100x better then any mez we got before it, Charm, well what we had at 60 was serviceable but your capped on the spell before Word of Terris to the point where charming at 60 is nothing more of a farming tool. (Read, have fun in the grey). At 65 ldon drop loot is better, you can equip any piece of gear in the game and get full benefit, your spells are resisted less, your spell book has the potential to have some very powerfull dots(at 60 your missing dark plague, saryrn's kiss, horror, and blood of thule, this dps cannot be compensated for through aa's) Call me crazy, but if I'm spending days of real life time to get aa's, I'm gonna do it in the best position I can put myself in.

Jeb

[deathtognomes]

Spell Casting Mastery and the description for what Specialization does is VERY wrong. You can look this up at graffe's, or the druidgrove, they will support everything that I am about to tell ya about them.

Specialization: Specialization does NOT have any sort of "check". It is a FIXED mana-savings. 50 Spec skill is 3% mana savings, 200 skill is 11%. Whether it causes ANY sort of reduction in fizzles is VERY questioned, and the general consensus is NO, it doesnt cause any reduction in fizzles.

Spell Casting Mastery: Contrary to the description in the AA window, it also has nothing to do with Specialization checks. It is a 2%, 5% and 10% increase in the mana savings on all spells.

So, not only are you NOT having ANY less resists, but rather MORE...as supported by others here, you are ALSO fizzling MORE than your level 65 friend.

Just like resists are based SOLEY on your level vs. the mobs level, fizzles are based on your level vs. the spells level.

If you REALLY wanted to, and its a COMPLETE waste of an AA before you have at least 300, you could get spell casting expertise...but the first 2 ranks are POINTLESS, and getting the 3rd rank will cost you 12AA...just so you can not fizzle on maybe 1 or 2 spells that you cast rarely anyways.

There is NO AA skill that will double your mana regen, increase your nukes 50% EVERY time you cast them, increase your dots 50%, or increase the power and level of your pet 50%...but going from 59 to 65 will do all that.

[NeSikWay]

very good post, deathtognomes.

I have a question also, I hear that mental clarity isn't what its crack up to be either, its like MC1 is one more mana point per tick? and MC2 is like 2 and MC3 is like 3, so you spend 2+4+8 =14 points for a 3point mana regen?


Is there a good source of where aa information (consolidated) on aa exist? I guess I can research where too, I just hadn't completely done that cause the order I was going to work on first was...

innate int - may do sta first
innate sta
innate regen
run 1,2,3

then look into what I need after that. several suggested I wait til 61 rather than 60 to do this, but wasn't going to do any aa until at least 57.

I hear that DC at 59 is also good.

But not being there yet (i.e. still trying to get some of my spells together for the next couple of lvls and working on the shawl quest) has taken a higher priority, but reallly have enjoyed this discussion

[tengy]

To get to 65 with the most amount of AA's , I think it's faster to just race to 65 first. It took me 3 hours to get 1 aa at lvl 55 , and it takes 45 min to get 1 aa at lvl 65. The lvl 65 spells are just better and help drop those mobs faster. I currently have 81 aa's at lvl 65 and my toon has just hit 25 days played. But the most important thing is to enjoy the time burned playing in my own opinion.

Tengy
65/81

PS. MC3 is worth it when AA's come easily. MC1 gives you 1 mana per tick. This seems kinda crappy, but if you look at the bigger picture, it's 10 mana per min, 100 mana per 10 min, 600 mana in an hour. MC3 is just three times more, so 1800 mana in a hour. There are also other aa's that require MC3 so thats another reason.

DC is questionable, for certain solo spots it's great, but in groups many times you don't use it. So if you solo alot, like many necros do, it might be worth it, but then agian since we get a nice lvl 60 pet at 61, I don't know if you can find a DC able pet worth it. I have DC and it's a blast when I get to use it, but I used it maybe 4 to 5 times so far...... so was it worth it?? I think it's just for kicks to charm a spec in oasis... but thats me.....

[Neme Sis]

I really don't understand why some here are having such a hard time understanding this theory.

I will say though, if your not averaging an AA an hour...it's not worth the time.

See... everyone is trying to compare a 57 with 24AA to a 65. This wasn't my point at all. I was saying that at 57 with 24AA, I am most certainly fizzling less. And I have proved this now scientifically (read below). Also, I am being interrupted less when the mob is beating me up (CF1)... this means I can FD or root and run better than I used to. I am also using FAR less mana than before. And now 3 times I have delivered a Critical Blast with Deflux at the end of a fight to finish a mob and heal myself for 413HP at a life-and-death moment.

All this means that at 57 with 24AA, I play the game a LOT easier than 57 with NO aa. Get it? I die less, I spend less time getting rezzes, I don't have to help a group recover as often. All this adds up to easier leveling.

Believe it or not, my levels with 24AA are going by faster than my levels on previous chars with zero AA. It is that simple.

Now for that proof I promised:

I keep my logs constantly. At lvl 55, I played with 100% going to AA. But since I could not spend AA until I had 2 points for SCM1, and 4 points for SCM2, then 2 more for SCF1, 2 more for MC1 and 2 more for CF1, it gave me long periods of plateau to study statistics.

I wrote a parsing engine and stripped and stored all messages with "fizzle" grouped by messages that I spent AA. Ready for the shocker? My fizzle rate decreased dramtically... mostly after SCM2 with a slight drop after CF1. On the avegerage I dropped from an average of 20 fizzles per hour to a scant 4 fizzle per hour (using Standard Deviation/Sigma calculations for Standard Distribution of statistics using 1 Sigma - it formed a lovely Bell Curve and looked reasonable for this simple demonstration). All of this was done while hunting in the same spots (mostly the OC in PoV) and with a similar group of players using the same technique of group kiting.

Now I will admit that I did not do a Double-Blind test with a Control. However, I would think that these hard facts will make me feel less intimidated by the likes of some that throw wild quotes up at me.

There is NO AA skill that will double your mana regen, increase your nukes 50% EVERY time you cast them, increase your dots 50%, or increase the power and level of your pet 50%...but going from 59 to 65 will do all that.

Deathtognomes, I never claimed that I had these crazy-ass numbers you are talking about. Please take a cold shower and cool your jets. My point has always been that there MAY be some benefit to earning and spending AA along the way. My statistics seem to back this up and I was hoping for some open discussion about my findings. The fact that you and a few disturbed others get so worked up at least proves my thread title of Radical Herecy.

If you really want to help here, why not start a new char/class and work it up untwinked on a new server as I have. I have learned far more about EQ in the last couple of months than I did during the previous 3 years of being "ubah". I used to be a "Know-it-all" like some others here, but what I have learned has humbled me quite a bit about this fine game.

People miss so much in EQ by blasting through the game to 65.

[NeSikWay]

Neme Sis,

I agreed that people blast to 65 don't always stop and enjoy the game. There are so many things to do that people thing that lvling is everything, and I find there so much more to the game than that. So I've enjoyed this thread even if others find you have fallen off your coffin for doing it :)

[Jebasiz]

All this means that at 57 with 24AA, I play the game a LOT easier than 57 with NO aa. Get it? I die less, I spend less time getting rezzes, I don't have to help a group recover as often. All this adds up to easier leveling.

I'd damn sure hope so...

I found this funny.

If you really want to help here, why not start a new char/class and work it up untwinked on a new server as I have. I have learned far more about EQ in the last couple of months than I did during the previous 3 years of being "ubah". I used to be a "Know-it-all" like some others here, but what I have learned has humbled me quite a bit about this fine game.

If the other "ubah" character(s) weren't necromancer, there's no and I mean NO comparison to exping. Other characters may solo well, but they won't out exp us. The ONLY possible exception is a bard, and well...who cares. Also get your shit straight, I'm not a "know-it-all" I do have 297 aa's, I'm in a guild that raids everyday, we raid very well...and we exp very hard in our off-time. I put "work" into this game to accomplish my goals. However, since I don't like taking 2-3x as long to go from point A to point B (what your doing), I look into things beforehand and ask questions to people who are already where I want to be, and follow advice (that I asked for). Saying you started over after being "ubah" well if you were "ubah" (which is a completely fucking stupid word to begin with, nice choice btw) you either got burnt out and don't care what you do anymore... or shoved your head up your ass and became oblivious. Archetype AA at level 1 suck, their a 2% improvement/chance to crit blah blah blah. Enjoy your little "facts" you got friggen lucky, and if you were 60 casting those same spells(or 65) you would of fizzled them even less. Your 56 pet made leveling easier, vexxing mordinia made leveling easier, your spell levels in relation to your level got lower, making you fizzle less on (ebolt), Enjoy your 2 crits on deflux a day, I hope it was worth the 6 hours of exping to get your TWO aa's... could their be a bigger joke????

I think not.

By the way...I don't regret not killing the extra 3000 crystalline golems I missed by "blasting from 60-65" and I damn sure don't regret only having to kill 600(roughly) doomfire soldier for the same amount of exp, as those 3000 golems.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Neme Sis@Jan 21 2004, 10:52 PM
Meanwhile a Necro friend of mine that plays about as often as I do is lvl 62 with no AA. The real proof will be when he and I are at 65 together and he has as many AA as I do.
You were saying who is gonna get to 65 with the same amount of AA's faster. And everyone was arguing that part of your original post. However you are right, the true test is if some one levels two toons with similar gear from 0-65 one who starts AA at 51 and one who starts it a 65. Until thne it's all "theory" and "opinion" please everyone try to remember that.

It all depends on your play style and what you enjoy, after all it is a GAME!!!

[Jorrath]

Neme Sis, I must say that my initial intent when I created my Gnecromancer (Yes, a Gnome you Jealous Jerk), was to do much the same as You, Neme Sis, described in your first post...

After reading this thread, I've learned a bit more about the significant diference in the pet levels between at level 61. That in mind I will probably level to 61 before going for any AA's.

I wanted to thank everyone (even the "Inferiority to Gnomes" guy) for contributing valuable knowledge to this thread.

To support this idea, I'd like to put forth that my intent would not be to try to get a level 65 group as a level 61 w/ XX AA points, but to enjoy being a very powerful level 61 Gnecromancer in a level 61 group.

It's been my experience that there were a lot of power leveling egos in the post 60's on my last Server. I'm in no great hurry to rejoin that community on my new server.

Just a thank you from a new Gnecromancer.

[Neme Sis]

When I chose the word "ubah", Jebasiz, I certainly WAS being sarcastic and I certainly was NOT talking about you (at the time). However, if you want to find yourself in that list, go for it! You certainly got a good start! (hehe)

I'm not a "know-it-all" I do have 297 aa's, I'm in a guild that raids everyday, we raid very well...and we exp very hard in our off-time.

Have you ever kissed a girl?

I have... and I AM a girl! hehe.

While I pause to keep all you fellas from melting down, let me add this:

* I did get "burnt out".
* My head is not up my ass (but some of you get right up my nose with some of these posts - that's for sure!).
* I was NOT lvl 56 while I was getting AA, I was 55. But you bring up an interesting point. One of the biggest temptations for me was to ditch the AA to get that 56 pet... but I stayed the course. I wanted to test my theory more than succomb to the easy pressure.
* Vexing Mordinia (one x, sorry macho man) is level 57, not 55.
* This isn't a "big joke" (although, I have to admit I find it hard NOT to laugh when I read certain posts here).
* Beside all you say that I dissagree with, I have to admit you got me when you said, "I'm not a 'know-it-all'" (hehe).


This has been fun. But I have one more bit of experience to offer for now. I have a 57 ranger on another server. That char, I did not put AA in except around 10% or so on occassion since 51. I think I only have 2 points on her. Having a 57 with 24AA vs. a 57 with 2AA is startlingly different. To be honest, it is hard to get motivated to play the one with only 2AA.

Now before you all start with the "I hate rangah!" bits, just let me say that all classes are fun (with the possible exception of the most lethal character in the game - a pally with a map and a plan!). Rangers have some much over-looked qualities and are RARELY played correctly. But when someone does play one correctly... Katy bar the door! (hehe).

Oh, and Jebasiz... I spelled "ranger" as "rangah" just for you!

Have fun all you twisted folk!

[Zaldron]

dont know about most but i waited till 65 to really start on my AA's besides the Run3 because it helps not to get randown by mobs after i hit 65 i was getting insane AA's because of more places i could either group or solo but somepeople i know have waited and got AA's b4 65 and did just as good as me Once they hit 65 but b4 65 were a little slower at lvling ect but were better for their lvl than a character the same lvl with no AA so it all really boils down to the person and how they Choose to do it.

[deathtognomes]

Originally posted by Neme Sis@Feb 3 2004, 12:37 AM
And now 3 times I have delivered a Critical Blast with Deflux at the end of a fight to finish a mob and heal myself for 413HP at a life-and-death moment.
What I dont get is why you can't get it through your head that NO AA will EVER match what leveling can do.

A critical blast on Deflux? For 413? for 198 Mana?

Thats just plain stupid, to put it nicely. If you are counting on a 2-7% chance on a crit lifetap for 413 to save your bacon, perhaps EQ isnt the game for you.

Lets compare that shitty lifetap to Touch of Mujaki.

330HP vs 850...
198 mana vs 450....
3 sec cast vs 3.2.....
1.67 hp healed per mana vs. 1.89........

Had you just leveled, you could be casting that FAR SUPERIOR lifetap EVERY SINGLE time, instead of hoping for a crit at the right time. Sure, crits are fun, but so is a 850HP lifetap.

Deflux (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=59)
Touch of Mujaki (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=26)

Links added for easy reference.

[deathtognomes]

Originally posted by Neme Sis@Feb 3 2004, 12:37 AM
There is NO AA skill that will double your mana regen, increase your nukes 50% EVERY time you cast them, increase your dots 50%, or increase the power and level of your pet 50%...but going from 59 to 65 will do all that.

Deathtognomes, I never claimed that I had these crazy-ass numbers you are talking about.
And for clarification on these "crazy ass numbers"

Lets compare spells again, shall we?

Double mana regen?

Lich (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=89) This is what you use for mana regen at 55.

Seduction of Saryrn (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=8) This is what you use at 65.

Lich is 20/tick, SoS is 50. So here, as EASILY seen, leveling to 65 gives you OVER twice the mana regen of a level 55.

Double nukes?

Level 55 Nukes: Chill Bones (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=54), Torbas Venom Blast (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=64), Ignite Bones (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=101)

The best of these is 600 Damage. The best Damage/Mana ratio is 2.45 damage per mana.

Level 65 Nukes: Neurotoxin (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=24)

1300 Damage for 465 Mana. 2.8 Damage per mana.

Again, OVER twice as good.

Double the DoT damage?

Compare E-Bolt (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=76) to Blood of Thule (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=4). Both are poison DoTs, so that makes them a valid comparison.

E-Bolt is 146/Tick, Thule is 335.

Again, well over TWICE as good.

Pet 50% better?

Compare Invoke Death (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=88) to Child of Bertoxx (http://www.eqclasses.com/spells/spellview.asp?ID=5)

Again, CoB has almost twice the HP, hits for almost twice as much. Not to mention that it is about 20-25 levels higher when cast, and has the attack rating and AC to correspond to being that level.

So, as you can see, these are not "crazy-ass" numbers, but rather what a 0AA level 65 has, that you won't, regardless of number of AA.

[Skova]

And still yet some of you are only reading half of a post.

Most everyone who is supporting the argument of waiting till 65 to AA are talking bout how fast they exp in ldon planes and such zones that take a GROUP or GUILD to do. Not all of us want or have these on regular occasions. As a SOLOER at 65 you are not soloing yellows. Thats a fact. Rarely will you be soloing DBs which give a semi-decent amount of exp, AA or otherwise. If you find yourself being one of the people who get groups regularly then blasting to 65 might be your best bet. If you find yourself being one who solos more often than not, AAs will make a huge difference at lower levels and be easier to attain at such levels because the availability of GOOD exp mobs that can be soloed are more numerous.

I would prefer to stay away from the debate of 55 with X AAs vs 65 with no AAs. Instead, lets compare a 55 with X AAs vs. a 55 with no AAs (or whatever levels you prefer). Hands down the person with even a few AAs are working more efficiently than those with none when they are of the same level. Now take into consideration the soloer with AAs. This will make it easier to level in the long run.

Please, when replying to anything i post, remember that i speak from a soloers point of view. If you group 90% of your time then you wont understand my reasoning.

[Skulmar]

Ahh flame fests. I guess every class board is the same. Neme Sis is leveling the way she wants to level and having fun doing it. More power to her. She is sharing her path of AA/exp. Take it for what it is... her "theory".
First a recap on my theory:

Don’t level up to 65 and then get AA like most posts tell you to. I stopped at lvl 51 and got 12 points and spent them ALL. That’s right…. I spent them all – RS3, Regen3, INT5, and the only mistake of STA1.

Different play styles for different people. I'm in no rush myself. I have a higher lvl toon that I can play when my guild does those events. I play my necro to see the things that I missed with my ranger due to the level rush. That and I can solo damn near anything within my level without worries. I will definately stop lvl exp when I reach my 50's for some AA but that is my choice. Not everyone wants to be 65 in 10 days.

[HazardousPanic]

It's just a game!!!! :lol:

That's all.

[Fizzleplink]

Damn, for a moment I thought I was back at the Shaman's Crucible or Monkly Business.

[NeSikWay]

I agree its just a game. and its great to hear what people have done with their AA, and I don't think that one is better than the other, because it should be based on,
are we having fun yet? If the answer is yes, the regardless of what numbers you crunch, what you can or can't solo, what groups you can and can't get, what race or class you choose, you've done the right thing.

does a 65 beat a 55 with 24aa? yeah, it does.
which player had more fun? you know I bet they both did, cause they did what they wanted and liked to do.

Who will reach 65 with XXaa first? I think thats still up in the air.

What aa helped that person doing 55 to 65? and other... That has been the great value of this discussion.

who wins? guess what we all do ;)

[Jebasiz]

Most everyone who is supporting the argument of waiting till 65 to AA are talking bout how fast they exp in ldon planes and such zones that take a GROUP or GUILD to do. Not all of us want or have these on regular occasions. As a SOLOER at 65 you are not soloing yellows.

Heh, as a 65 necromancer you ARE doing just that...I solo reds in plane of fire non-stop when I want exp. If that's camped I do magma guardians, which con yellow to red. On a "bad" night I'm forced to resort to soloing level 62-63 diaku's in tactics and those are 5-6% exp a kill, making 15k in sellable items that night. At 65 anything that doesn't summon is fair game, and if it's snareable too, it's trivial.

[Neme Sis]

What I dont get is why you can't get it through your head that NO AA will EVER match what leveling can do.

I have no idea how many times I have had to say it, DTM... but let me try it another way...

You and Jebasiz need to get a room with a really big mirror and have a Narci-mancer festival.

But just so you will drop it (at least a girl can dream...), I will admit that a 65 necro-god with 5-bajillion AA points and the biggest brain that had ever played the game and no social life to speak of will do better than little ol' me at 57 and 24AA...


As long as you will admit that little ol' me at 57 and 24AA may have an easier time than say a necro that is 57 with ZERO aa because he is marching in lock-step with the teaming masses that rush through the game so they can spend years in 6 zones with all the other Narci-mancers drooling over their ubah-gear while bragging about which pretend band of pretend characters is better than the other pretend band of pretend characters all the while complaining about there not being enough new content for their ubah-selves.

Now that we have cleared all that up... i want you to see the real reason behind my post.

As so many here have echoed, sometimes... just maybe... there just might be more to heaven and earth than lies in your philosophy, Horacio! It is just remotely plausible that there may be another way to play than the road most traveled.

All i really wanted to accomplish was to share some experiences that may shed some new light on how to play. All you two want to do is stamp your feet, stick your fingers in your ears, and scream, "my way is the ONLY way! lalalalalala!!!"

hehe.

Now march off and find your significance in your 1 millionth slaughtered diaku. i will be having fun too! ;-)

[Jebasiz]

Anytime you go against conventional wisdom/common practice you should expect confrontation. The fact that when you posted you named your post radical heresy, kinda tells people your looking for an argument, it was nice and congenial for a few posts, and then you got flamed, BIG SHOCK...

There is absolutely no comparison in the rate a ranger and necromancer exp at, at any level. Yes rangers can do some impressive things, I even have one...It's a very well rounded character. That said, they are not equipped to solo at the rate we do. Bow Kiting until you have EQ is really expensive, snare is great, root is ok...but terrain plays HELL with a soloing ranger.

As far as what you do with your time I don't care, but saying here that a level 57 necromancer with a few pissy aa's is better then a level 60 is nonesense. Your other argument isn't much of one...It's very true that when you FINALLY reach 60 or 65(whichever you want to use for comparison) you'll be better off then someone with no aa(for like 20hours) until they get the aa you've spent days and days saving for. Those aa's may make leveling to 60 and 65 easier, and they should, my point was if you got 65 first, and then aa'd you'd save yourself a whole lot of time, seeing more game content, so you don't have to kill the same mobs 1 billion times(as a paraphrase), while your leveling and AA'ing. It was a piece of advice for you and other people in your position, or people that will be soon.

I don't really take a whole lot of gratification in killing exp mobs..one is as good as another. What I do like is getting 5 or 6 people together and killing Derakator the Vindicator, Doomshade, Rumble Crush....soloing Prot in Sebilis, and helping epic my friends, often times solo killing their mobs and MQ'ing pieces. Each encounter solo or with an extremely small numbers of friends I'm guilded with or xp with is alot of fun. None of this would be possible if we dragged our feet and aa'd all the time and remained any other level then 65. Your spells are resisted more(or you don't have spells you need yet), your agro radius is larger..mobs hit you harder, you miss hitting them more (and I do melee). Your dps also skyrockets from 60-65, and when you don't have overwhelming numbers, that's a very important aspect of everyone's contribution.

Your comments on people's social life is a direct reflection of YOUR experience in EQ. It's taken you 3 years, and over 115 levels throughout 2 characters, and you still don't understand how easy the game is once you've reached the level cap, that's from not having been there. You also fail to see, that some of us actually were level capped at 60 when velious launched, and went straight to AA when suclin launched, and then more AA after a week of exping when PoP launched. You add all those days together, and 1 aa every other day (recently taking 25mins) puts you way over what's required. In a raid guild you might get that much just with decent raid attendance. Then again, you haven't experienced that aspect of the game either.

At 65 with a ton of aa, waiting for new content can get boring...and imo it can be very very tedious. That's not something a level 55-57 necromancer has to worry about with another expansion a week away. There is more then one way to play this game, and what your doing has been done before.
One thing I fail to see is(then and now)...what's so different about hunting in ME for 3 months or hunting in tier 2-4 planes, besides the fact that you can get ornate armors, tradeskill components, and the rare drop from semi-common spawns that will greatly improve your character, that aren't available at level 57. Add to that, you'll get your precious little aa's faster, as you gain level.

Flame and make jokes all you want, your making comments on something with a very limited view, and completely one-sided experience. I don't drool over anything, I do appreciate what my guild helps me acquire, but there is no desire to have the best this-or-that item. I am however very pleased that my friends list is quite full, and I'm happy I have the time to talk and play with those people.

Please keep the personal attacks to a minimum though, the only thing you know about me, is I'm probably just as stubborn as you are.... that, and we both kiss women.

The only thing "ubah", (used for your reading pleasure) from EQ you can really attain, are the things you can take with you when your done playing... friendships and fond memories, are two of those things(for me anyway). I'm done here...enjoy your LONG road to what will hopefully be enjoyment.

[Neme Sis]

I hope you read this one more, Jebasiz, before you leave.

I have had many characters up to 65. I am pleased you read my last few posts, but you must have missed that from skipping the first few.

After leveling to max and doing all the swell things you stated years ago, I was even in guilds dedicated to nothing but helping newbies. To tell you how far back I go, I actually did the key quest in order to access CS to get the druid/wizzy port-in key so I could port directly to CB. Hell, I even remember taking the first boat from Butcher to FV. But I am sure there are many others here with the same tales.

I really wasn't looking for a platform to brag... to really, really be honest... this is the first time I stopped at 51 and 55 to get AA and I found that the character plays COMPLETELY differently. From what all those against this idea post and say, you would think that all those AA have "no or little effect whatever". And yet, these same people have never tried it. That is my problem... they simply have not tried it. They just make silly statements like "I can get 24AA in 20 hours", or "what a complete waste of time!" or "you spent DAYS getting what I can get in MINUTES!"

I think we all know these statements to be inflated. And I don't see how you can question this theory until you have at least tried it (as I have tried it your way many, many times).

I asked some basic questions looking for insights. You and Deathtognomes started flaming almost immediately and without really reading what I was saying. It has been years since I have flamed anyone back, but I wanted you two to know that this ol' gal still has some teeth.

As for my new insights on AA (for me, if no one else), I think I will now follow this track every time I start a new char on a new server.

Yes, and I will get out of the house some and even meet some new men... there is more to life than is dreamt of in your philosophy...

Have fun!

[Aneastin]

I hope the mods close this Dead horse soon but before they do the flames need to be fanned one more time :P .

I have had many characters up to 65. I am pleased you read my last few posts, but you must have missed that from skipping the first few.

On page three you mention something about being uber for the past three years. It was the first time you mentioned playing another toon, so perhaps you should reread your own posts.

I asked some basic questions looking for insights. You and Deathtognomes started flaming almost immediately and without really reading what I was saying. It has been years since I have flamed anyone back, but I wanted you two to know that this ol' gal still has some teeth.

Jebs first post on this was at the bottom of the second page. The only person who started flaming immediately was you in your second post.

Deathtognomes posted this in response to your theory
At 57 you will not be doing more damage than a level 61 necro with thier new pet spell, as they will have a level 60ish pet, and you will have a level 40ish one. Its not even funny how much more damage that pet will do. Plus, you send your pet in a second too soon, and he will get insta-gibbed, unlike the level 61 pet which can take a few rounds against stuff in PoV, which is more than enough to get it slowed and have a tank in front of it.

24AA will net you about the effect of 15% mana preservation, if that, which equates to perhaps 1 extra cast per 2 or 3 mobs, which will NOT be more than the DPS difference in your pet.

Let me tell ya, from a non-necro point of view, when I get in a group, and see a skeleton pet or even a light-blue con spectre (EoT) I count down the seconds till the necro leaves and I get someone that is able to pull thier own weight.

24AA + crappy skele-pet is NOT better than 0AA and sweet PoP pet. I will take a level 65 0AA necro over a level 57 250AA necro any day.

How is that a flame?

The first two sentences of your reply were.
Your ignorance is stunning. I suppose we now know whom the 15 year old was that came up with the original post to level up to 65 and then do AA. You have many faithful followers.

That is a flame. Understand yet.

Please drop the issue. You had some good points when you started. Points that some might feel inclined to try. Your choice of Flaming and personal attacks probably won't convince many more to try your style. In fact all they have done is water down what started out as a good post.

[Neme Sis]

Aneastin, you ignorant slut...


Hehe... just kidding.

[Umbrello]

This topic has been bit by a rabies infested dog.

Moved to the appropriate forum so those who would like to continue the flame fest can and those who would wrather not look at it dont have to.

Thanks to Schaffer for reminding me to do this.

[Fizzleplink]

ROFL, I was wondering when it'd get here.

[VenimFv]

everyone plays thier chars different. No two people have the same style, I did a few aa , run 3 , regen 3, and then leveled to 65. the aa's are much easier to get now that I am 65 they are much faster. I do way way more damage now then I did at 55 - 59. the same spell at 60 will do more damage than the exact same spell at a lower level they increase to a max dmg untill you reach the max dmg level of the spell. thats why on casters realm it says " does between x amount of dmg and x amount of damage per tick ". but what it all boild down to is do what is best for you, I can say 59 is a serios hell level ( at least on my server ) aa is perpetually lvl 51 over and over where as the levels are harder to get through .

[Darkkeeper]

Jeb, I have said it before and I'll say it again.

You are the King. Reign Supreme


Darkkeeper

[Neme Sis]

I wish this thread could be cleaned up a little and moved out of this forum. There really were some good ideas debated here and I hate to see them lost.

[Fizzleplink]

Sorry, I'm just a demidiety; I can't do things in the Pub.

[Origomali]

I'm Ubah !!! haha, well at least I think I am, wanna know why?

43, married, 3 children 2-17; very demanding, very dangerous career. Only have one toon now on one server and still don't have as much time as I would appreciate to play but I do have 45 or so AAs

My big mistake, in hind-sight, with this Necromancer, that it has taken me nearly 3 years to level from 1 to 65.........dumping time into acquiring AAs pre level 60....even if I had waited until level 60 or 61 and then just put 10% into AAs, I would have been so much better off.

I hope my reply fits....from what I understand and no, I didn't read every word of every post on this thread, is that someone believes putting effort into AAa pre 60-65 is worthwhile...........only if you had a vary valuable spell that could be MGB'd during a raid and were in a raiding guild....otherwise, IMO, it was a waste of time for me and would be a waste of time for anyone.

[stukka]

OK...like my grandma always said "don't argue over politics, religion and the question: AA>levels>AA" :lol:

I do know that I can crank the poop out of AA's at 65 and the AA grind at <60 is SSSSSLLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWWW goin, so if we are taking a vote, I would suggest getting Run3 and then leveling, and then the rest of the AA's you want/need will come quickly :D

[Plavonica]

I myself had gotten run3 and regen3 at 56 because i asked my lvl65 necro friend "what aa's should i get?". He said (basically) "run3 then regen3, then do whatever you want, however i suggest you get to 65 pronto and go to these cool places with me". I did just that and have not regreted it.

Doing it different from what i did would be, well, different. Some ways slower some ways faster. I had fun getting to 65. I had fun getting those 6 aa's. I am having fun getting more.

I am now looking forward to having fun duo'ing with my necro friend and the new areas we can explore. Im sure this will also be fun. When it ceases to be fun in those areas or doing what we are doin we will most likely kill one more and head off to do something different.

There are many ways of playing and enjoying the game. Have fun always and enjoy playing as much as you can.


*Edited for veiwing ease* (good lord my spelling sucks) :lol:

[Jebasiz]

Who dug this trash up?

edit:

nvm...

Neme Sis Posted: Jul 11 2004, 03:30 PM

it would figure.

[Nekys]

Nem Sis,

So the "test" was between you and a friend. You doing AA along the way and the friend leveling to 65 before doing AA. At the time you finally ding 65 and 48AA the comparison would be how many AA would your friend have.

Did I get that right?

In your posts you mention you friend was leveling slower, you were getting more groups and in "the race" you were proving your way was superior.

For a suposed test, this thing certainly has a ton of holes in it.

1. Both characters would have to document actual xp gain time played. Given the lack of comparitive xp inflow between the 2 you don't have the factual data needed to make a comparative judgement.

As you stated, you are getting more groups than your friend. Somehow, in saying this, there was a shaded suggestion the reason behind your groups was because of your AA. Frankly, I don't buy this.

When you said group members felt you contributed to the group, they liked how you play and you have been re-invited to groups seems self-explanatory. You play your character well. You have made friends.

2. At 57 you are grouping in PoV. For someone wanting to do it a new and better way, the path of the mob mentality in xp is a tad bit contridictory. Sure you can group in PoV. I see >55 clerics in PoV. They get groups. The groups even live. But, comeon. Anyone with a braincell knows a >55 cleric in PoV is a suckass healer unless the group is carrying him.

While getting groups in level appropriate zones is difficult (because the mob mentality doesn't let folks group in those places), as a necro those other areas are very much soloable. Which would allow you and your friend to more accurately track the test between the 2 characters. Each picks an appropriate level based xp zone and solo that area for X amount of time.

Keep xp time equal. As it stands, as I see it by your explanation, the test is not which is the most efficient path as much as just another version of the race to 65. You are winning and so all is good.

To address your path compared to the race to 65 above all route, who is to say. It really is all about what you do with your toon that gives you the most enjoyment. Same with Jeb. Same with everyone.

My son starts a new character every couple of months, levels it to mid-teens then stops playing and goes off to do other things. He then comes back, sells or uses whatever gear he had on the old toon to outfit another toon and starts over. He has done most of the newbie class armor quests and has fun for a few days dinking around. Personally it drives me nuts that he does this, but it also reminds me that it is a game and he is getting the enjoyment he wants from it. That reminder keeps my mouth shut about his play style ... and filters over to here to keep my mouth shut about yours.

I will say though, please climb off your crafted pedastal. You are not the only one in the game trying different ways of progression. You are not the only one doing anyone thing in the game in any new or unique way that hasn't been done or tried by others. At this point in the game history and longevity, everything has been tried - at least once - by someone, somewhere.

Sadly, and I think this is your real point, too many folks are only doing it one way. The blinders are on and they think the point is getting to 65. Thats what the masses do ... follow the leader. In EQ that leader has been defined as the first person to get to the highest level in the highest zone and fight the highest mob.

Don't take this as me being on your side of the leveling argument. I would not include Jeb as part of the pack following the leader. He may have taken a similar path. He may have taken the same path. But he took that path fully informed that the destination was where he wanted to go. The pack doesn't know this - they don't know why they are racing to get there, just that racing is what they have to do.

It kind of involves that same weird illogical logic your argument/reasoning displays. You argue the validity of your AA progression based on what it gives you at 57. If you stopped here there would be no argument. You are right. Just like gear that provides more stat increases, AA provide more stat/ability increases. But then you veer off into tangents comparing your lvl 57 ability against lvl 65 abilities without your AA level. There is no comparison. A 65 necro will wipe the floor with you, your pet, the city you were born in. And then go get their first AA.

Why even try to compare the 2? Why argue the point even further when others try to make the comparison. You first started out focused on a lvl 57 with AA and the progression planned from there. Then it veered into getting into arguments with 65s making a their level/your level comparison ... which you tried to counter. Again, there is no counter. There is no comparison. A 57 necro is not, cannot be and is a completely different critter than a 65 necro. As is a lvl 20 necro compared to a lvl 57.

But I digress ... my real point was the first section: if you are making a true test you need true test conditions. They do not exist. No matter what happens, whether you win or loss the race with your friend, the test has too many flaws to be an accurate indication of anything.

[Jebasiz]

Other mobs grouped or solo'd at 65 since this thread (mercifully) died...I thought.

Every single regular spawn(ie not triggered event) in Barindu.
TipT/Vxed (sometimes with 4 people)named.
I beat vxed solo start to finish, and even got the hail in, on my way out(I had it way before then though...I just wanted to see if I could)
Firona Vie outpost...I think all but Guildleaders.
Gorenaire
Talendor (lifeburn screenshot available upon request)
Severilous
Woushi
Servitor of luclin (duo'd with shaman w/me tanking)
Hynid howler (and other appropriate level named in Kod'taz..basically any roamer or temple spawn)
Captain Rotgrime (with his marines)
Most of the Rogue epic mobs in Kithicor (I did get help with general, like 3 people)
Venril Sathir

For all these, any help I got was from level 65 characters. Some, the chanters/shaman had ornate level gear and under 200 aa. For The general in kithicor the paladin tank probably didn't need any help (she rocked).

Although it's completely trivial, to the point that most level 65 necromancers seldom ever bother to do it more then once or twice (just to say the did it).

Remains of Synthrax
As pathetic as he is...he can't be solo'd before 65, reguardless of AA's. Unless you find away to scribe and cast Word of Terris before being 65...that or get around the required level on gear that would let you tank him.

[Senlayan]

I dont care how long neme has been playing or how many 65s she has, ur a noob, straight. Anyone that is pro at this game knows 65 first aas next, i get 1 aa an hour in hoh and hoh is gimp, once im fire flagged i will grind 2 an hour if im in an AAin mood, thats all ur aas in 12 hours which could be one session if i felt like playing all day. Bam i win kkthxplx

[Bostuse RedNeckroh]

So I guess it goes without saying say ya get a guy who peters around to 62 along the way ammassing 100 aa , you would let sit out of your group for a 65 with 0. See a 57 wont be 57 forever he/she will lvl up and soon them difference will be seen before 65.

lvl 62 with 100 is better off for two reasons, (jmho)

1. More time in the saddle (I.E. play time)
2. More balanced that a 65 with 0

That aside I can spend 3-4 hours a day with lfg even at 61 (6aa's) All my spells to 62 except Sed-sub. Kitting in Night mare and narry and invite or a pickup group I can scramble together for anything besides well me kttin and they sittin back. Well I can do that alone. Maybe its my allowable play time early am right now no days off, or peers my level are hating the necros. Who knows I dont worry about it anymmore someone needs a warm body for an LDON im they man Ill come along and add where and to what I see the group lacking in. We all know what we can do in various situations so no need to list them for ya. A few critters in i can see out shortcomings and adjust my spell bar to what we need.

Ultimately with a necro and our over all abilitys to adapt to various groups and situations, coupled with our innate survivability even in cloth armor make this a truely fun class. One way to lvl vs the other is a silly argument in its self becaue ironically we are all different people.

See for me Id group with either one because I dont crunch the numbers that hard. If your in my group contribute some way to the success and Im happy. If your new and learning, then contribute and learn, enjoy the success, im happy. If I ding cool if I dont theres always tomorrow. ( I dont like dieing) Im no angel you get me killed , or failure. NOT HAPPY:(

Some real anger came out on this post in the word form. The game (eq) is not supposed to be work, its fun, and sometimes downright flustratin. Im still waitin for the chance to kick a programmer in the balls for messing it up (dx9). Its supposed to be fun.

This was a perfect forum to discuss and put different ways of doing it (xp grind), other than to do the cookie cutter way. If sony wanted cookie cutters then sell me a 250 AA lvl 65 Necro with all the spells since they are all alike , a dime a dozen dont matter about the xp build up cause they all have no personalities. (daoc)

See this lvl I got it rigged so i get 2 % aa 1 % xp im going to ding in 100 kills to 62 and get 2 aa out of it (scm1) Im so excited i could just shit myself cause i get to do something different this lvl. At 62 i get last pet haste one more cool ass dot oh and my never used root spell ??? plus a slight reduction in fizzle / mana cost SWEEET. Cant wait to get home and do this today I finally get a day off after 19 days and Im going to piss it away leveling my way.

B

[Zandramadass]

I'll agree and disagree with some of the original posters comments. Myself closing in on 63 and I currently have 38AA most of which were gotten post 60 lvl but 15 or so were 51-56range. The lvling/aa'ing were much slower at lower lvls but also very helpfull as well allowing quicker kills more efficently and the ability to fight of pkers (better spells assisted as well of course).

Just the other day I forked out 30k for child of bertoxx (sp) spell which I cant use for another 2 1/2 lvls roughly. Just found decent price for it on my server. I'm not in huge hurry to get up to 65 but i'm also not just straight AA at this point. My current lvl vs a 65 with no AA even if they have all the spells tends to lean towards me in a fight but that is not the case for any necro even with 300 or so AA below lvl 61.

I guess my point is if you ask my advice get the minimul AA you need until you 61+ then take time if you want for AA's as you can solo 2nd tier zones and get an AA an hour np with your new pet/funeral pyre/arch lich/death peace you will be able to walk over mobs that may have caused you problems before. Also the real points for LDoN adventures come from 60-65 lvl groups and there some great gear to be had there. But again yes it all depends on your play style it is just a game.

If you do plan on AA'ing for awhile I would suggest grabbing 1 other (class that can snare) and give froggies in PoS a shot nearly 2b bub's of AA exp per kill and I was killing them at 58 with only minor difficulty was if they resisted snare. Carefull tho not to get hit can double attack 600dmg and proc a 2k ish dot on ya.
Zandramadass 62nd Iksar Necro and tradeskiller extrordinare

[AnimocityStromm]

There are reasons a 65 will get a group before a 59 regardless of how many AA either has, not the least of which is spell resists. The 65 will land spells on mobs a group of 65's is hunting alot more than a 59. at 59, you're going to get resists on red mobs, period. and just one resist of a 400 mana spell pretty much negates your SCM3 on the next 12-15 spells...and you WILL get a resist in every 12-15 casts of most spells.

When you see how fast you kill mobs that give 5-7% aaxp each at 65, and you still try to justify getting more than Run3 before you get 65, you're only fooling yourself. And once you hit 62 and are able to get into HoH or BoT, especially as a necro with the spells we get at 63, 64, and 65, there's no reason at all to cripple yourself by not levelling to 65. Saryrn's Companion, Horror and Blood of Thule are all spells no amount of AA can make up for not having.

And soon, when the level limit is raised to 70...I can guarantee you a 70 with 0 AA's will get a group and/or kill faster solo than anyone below 65 with ALL thier AA's.

*prays for an upgrade to Splurt in OoW*

[Aryse Andenter]

Sorry guys, locking this thread, it deserves to die in the fiery pits of, well, the Inferno.

There's honestly not much new to add to the fight at this point and this thread seems to always wander into inappropriate land and upset people.


Besides, levels > AA ;)