Possible replacement item- Willful Death

[sauruman]

We necros aren't satisfied with the new willful death line. In order to survive raid wipes, which is among our primary roles, we need a reliable method of survival.
Willful death fires only 25% of the time, which is a tease at best. A good necro will stand and re-fd before we will sit around waiting for another spell to break their FD.
Necros also feel we have had a dramatic reduction in pulling utility in contrast to other pulling classes, and even our hybrid the SK. We need this aa to fire as a higher frequency in order to be competitive. This aa has tremendous potential, if only it can be capitalized upon.
Either
1) Boost the % that willful death fires. Currently it works only 25% of the time. A minimum of 90% is ideal, even refunding the aa's and charging a much higher price per level would be acceptable, or adding tiers to it now (but NOT in future expansions, as the aa is viewed as broke by the community).
2) Allow Willful death to be a triggered ability with a short duration and a recast timer. That way we can have instances where the ability would be USEFUL, in contrast to never.

Why willful death as a class issue? The devs have stated 25% is the range they want this aa to work at. In fact, it isn't supposed to even work when spells aren't resisted and your FD, and it does. We need this item to acknowledge the significance of this issue, by sending this issue forward.

[Aryse Andenter]

Yes yes yes this needs to be on the list.

1) If you boost the % through more AA I'd be worried about the cost, as the current cost is pretty high for only 25% and this continued ratio would be outrageous.

2) Unless they increase the % it fires drastically with a short timer. If it's triggered but still only does 25%, no good. So are you saying a 90-100% success rate with a short trigger on this one?


I'd also be okay with the suggested tradeoff of 100% unbroken on resisted spells and 0% on unresisted, as it would allow my gear and some control on my part or allow devs to code into raid events unresistable AEs if they didn't want necros FDing there.

[Xelgadis]

In all honesty, look at Stonewall that monks get. At max level, a resisted spell will not break FD, and even a spell that isn't resisted stands a minimal chance of breaking FD.

Class reinvisioning and balancing? This is hardly balanced for sks and necros in comparison to what monks have available to them. If 25% is all the developers intend for Willful Death to work at, then perhaps they should consider nerfing Stonewall to match. Since that would create even more dissatisfaction, overhauling Willful Death is the more intelligent option as there'd be more happy people overall. If they're gonna throw unresistable zonewide AEs at us, that fire every 5 minutes, a good chance of that not breaking FD can save an hour of reclearing, as reclearing tends to piss off a raid if it could have been avoided. Besides, what good does all the monks surviving a wipe, but no rez capable classes (ie. necro), do?

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Nov 30 2005, 12:10 AM
Besides, what good does all the monks surviving a wipe, but no rez capable classes (ie. necro), do?
I agree we got the shaft.. same cost as Stonewall, yes? But perhaps it's precisely because we can rez that they do not wish a likely FD through an AoE?

If the Devs say their intend is 25% on a resisted spell, and 0% on one that lands (and thats all they see as balanced), I think the only fair answer is refund. They can leave the AA in.. people with 1300 AA need something to buy, but I bet you everyone thought they were buying Stonewall for 25 AA.

Change the ingame description to "slight chance when spells are resisted" (as aposed to the very clear in game description of Stonewall) and let people re-purchase if they desire.

[Schaeffer]

I don't really raid content that would wipe us yet, so I'm not so concerned about that, but pulling is really where I see this as making a difference. Splitting a group of casters sucks. Especially casters that quad for 2k. I didn't buy this aa. I waited to see how well it would work.

Obviously not many are happy so I'll save my aa's. If it were more efficient in anyway whatsoever, I might consider purchasing it. Adding this in was kind of a cruel joke. I'm glad there's people out there like Usul, Jeb and Xelg that have nothing else to purchase so I had a chance to get some feedback before I wasted my aa's.

[Rijak]

hell, i want stonewall... i love pulling like a monk :P

[Jebasiz]

Make it usefull or replace it with something that is actually good.

[Dranul]

As Felicite mentioned, if we got only a 25% chance to not break FD because they didn't want a class that can rez to have something like Stonewall, then they should refund the AAs.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite@Nov 30 2005, 02:51 AM
But perhaps it's precisely because we can rez that they do not wish a likely FD through an AoE?
or maybe because monks feel marginalized enough already... while i want to pull like a monk on occasion, pulling is basically all monks have these days... and i see enough complain already when they see how easily we can pet pull in many situations

[Zeller TP]

Clearly the answer is to give Monks a rez.

[Rijak]

or twitch ;)

[UsulDaNeriak]

Originally posted by Rijak@Nov 30 2005, 09:06 PM
or twitch ;)
dont call for a nerf of the monk class :lol:

Usul

[Dranul]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak+Nov 30 2005, 09:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (UsulDaNeriak @ Nov 30 2005, 09:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Nov 30 2005, 09:06 PM
or twitch ;)
dont call for a nerf of the monk class :lol:

Usul [/b][/quote]
Zerker tells Monk, "Low on end, omg, twitch me~!"

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Dranul+Nov 30 2005, 04:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dranul @ Nov 30 2005, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak@Nov 30 2005, 09:09 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Nov 30 2005, 09:06 PM
or twitch ;)
dont call for a nerf of the monk class :lol:

Usul
Zerker tells Monk, "Low on end, omg, twitch me~!" [/b][/quote]
Well...berserkers are more dps then monks, it'd make sense!

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak+Nov 30 2005, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (UsulDaNeriak @ Nov 30 2005, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Nov 30 2005, 09:06 PM
or twitch ;)
dont call for a nerf of the monk class :lol:

Usul [/b][/quote]
OOOOOO here's an idea, let's give twitch to enchanters, their mana is useless once they're done buffing...

Maybe they'll feel useful again and stop whining!

[Sathras]

Darn, I got in the wrong thread and clicked NO. Of course I want that revamped so ignore the one "no" from me.

[sauruman]

Lol I was about to post who the hell voted against this????

[Rijak]

Originally posted by sauruman@Dec 2 2005, 12:09 PM
Lol I was about to post who the hell voted against this????
the monks have found us! :lol:

[Sathras]

Originally posted by Rijak
the monks have found us!I resent that! You are fortunate to be on another server. :P

[Xelgadis]

Let me add that rogues got Nerves of Steel with OoW, which is the same thing as Stonewall, except for hide. So throw us a fricken bone here and make Willful Death not be the steaming pile of horse crap that it is please.

[Rijak]

i'm curious about the comparisons between this and stonewall... from reading the monk forums, max stonewall is a 50% chance to FD through a spell/AOE, resist or not

willful death is exactly the same but only 25%, or is that not the only difference?

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Rijak@Dec 6 2005, 01:54 PM
i'm curious about the comparisons between this and stonewall... from reading the monk forums, max stonewall is a 50% chance to FD through a spell/AOE, resist or not

willful death is exactly the same but only 25%, or is that not the only difference?
So.. even though the in game text says when maxed you get 100% FD through resisted spells.. that's not true?

I am not monk.. don't even play one on TV.

P.S. Top Guild ™ on my Server requires Willful Death 5 for applicant Necros, but my theory is they have had issues with players that can not/will not buckle down an earn AA.. so by requiring a 25 AA purchase from the last expansion, you are proving you can. O:)

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite+Dec 6 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Dec 6 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Dec 6 2005, 01:54 PM
i'm curious about the comparisons between this and stonewall... from reading the monk forums, max stonewall is a 50% chance to FD through a spell/AOE, resist or not

willful death is exactly the same but only 25%, or is that not the only difference?
So.. even though the in game text says when maxed you get 100% FD through resisted spells.. that's not true?[/b][/quote]
my mistake... did a bit more searching... 100% chance if the spell is resisted and 50% if it is not

i assume ours is 25/25 ?

if so, maybe we should ask for 75/25

or maybe 100/25

the bottom line on "class balance" is how many people play the class... and there are 10 necros for every monk (probably for every monk and rogue)... so giving us the same ability is unlikely, since pulling is one of the few things monks have... but asking for a relative ability might be acceptable

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Rijak@Dec 6 2005, 02:20 PM
i assume ours is 25/25 ?
Never ass*u*me

It's on this thread. Yes, today it's 25/25.. but the Devs meant for it to be 25/0.

Yes.. not even a reach around.

[Rijak]

then ask for 100/0 (a little of the old give and take ;) ), and maybe we get 75/0... not great, but better

[Xelgadis]

Regardless, not asking for the same is pissing around the issue rather than addressing it. Why should monks and rogues get what they have, and necros/sks be shit on at the same time?

[Schaeffer]

Because they know we're the most intelligent class, and they amuse themselves by throwing crap at us and watching us turn it into gold.

[Mallakith]

CAn I suggest wording it:


THis ability is so crap the necromancer boards are recommending buying Innate Wisdom and PoP Innate Wisdom BEFORE it. Please fix it. Make it similar to the monk ability that gives 100% chance of ignoring a spell if you resist the spell. 0% chance if the spell hits you would be a viable payoff as everyone with a modicum of common sense can understand that if you take a 3000pt nuke the mob might notice you going "ouch that stings". Currently its crap in necro eyes, its crap in mage eyes... its crap in the eyes of everyone WITH eyes... FIX IT!


Sorry i got off on one! lol

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Dec 7 2005, 12:52 AM
Regardless, not asking for the same is pissing around the issue rather than addressing it. Why should monks and rogues get what they have, and necros/sks be shit on at the same time?
because they are an endangered species ;)

but good point, why not ask for the same and see what we get