Possible replacement item- upgrade lifeburn

[sauruman]

We would like to see aa's or focuses in the future that allow for either lifeburn crits or a shortened recast timer on use. Please don't forget about us while you upgrade the weezards!

[sauruman]

Yes for me. Lifeburn is probably the funnest thing we have. I realize that with all the dots we have now, in ONE good tick we can do as much as a 13k lifeburn (granted would have to be a hell of a tick). But this is still a manafree burst damage ability, something all classes should have a few of. The 2hours and 20min recast on it and the fact it can't crit are major detriments. I'd like to see some changes with it, in the way DODH aa's shortened the wtd timer.

[Aryse Andenter]

Yes. Lifeburn used to be a fight saving AA - necros in my old guild saved it for emergency moments when things were going south and we needed that little extra push to kill the mob. That doesn't happen anymore - it doesn't do enough damage to matter. Now its just a slightly better nuke, really, and necros use it on any mob anytime since it just doesn't do anything.

I wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade to it in AA form - again, increased damage, shortened recast, or crit possibilities are all great.

[Xislaben]

Be nice to see much bigger lb's, shorter timers, and better tap backs, but I won't be holding my breath :)

[Felicite]

Even if we can't get crits.. the recourse back is comical in terms of even casual HP total. If nothing else at least extend/increase that to return something closer to the hitpoints of today.

Not that I would say no to a shot of double HP, or faster recast.. but look at my first statement.. you have a loooot more HP than when this was added to the game. Like.. 3 or 4 ( or 5 ) times, right?

10 necros doing 10k each is 100k instant mana free damage.. that's something, surely.

[Xelgadis]

For a raiding necro, the recourse has always been woefully pathetic. They could remove the recourse altogether and I wouldn't miss it as I hardly notice it and usually chain Orshilak to regain the lost hp anyway (lifetaps won't crit when you're that low anyway, Fate's dice are loaded). Not to mention that removal of the recourse would probably end up addressing the "no lifeburn on blue servers" issue that has been somewhat of a point of bitterness for quite some time.

At the very least, reducing the recast delay on it would dramatically improve the ability, 2 game days is more than a bit much by today's standards. Increasing the damage output wouldn't be out of line either, say by X% (make it a multi-level AA if necessary). As far as adding the ability for it to crit- would be nice, but it's not necessary as I see it, providing increasing the damage output from it is addressed.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Nov 30 2005, 05:00 AM
Not to mention that removal of the recourse would probably end up addressing the "no lifeburn on blue servers" issue that has been somewhat of a point of bitterness for quite some time.
Wholly F'n Genius Batman!

Youi've got my vote.

[UsulDaNeriak]

delete the recourse.
shorten recast time.
let our already existing aa, foci, buffs regarding dmg and crit work on it.
no additional aa needed.

such simple.

Usul

[Jebasiz]

I wouldn't mind seeing it listed as a level 59 spell and focused accordingly by existing foci. I don't see why abilities that are 4 years old should need new foci, sorry.

Maybe 40mins for refresh would be appropriate(get to use it twice on Sendaii fight omg!).

A necro lifeburn doing 18-20k dmg shouldn't be to much, more would be nice so we can crit a lifeburn for oohh say more the a wizards crit on ether flame(something they can chain cast).

Another option, add a improved lifeburn or something as a 2nd aa step to lifeburn that will make the existing lifeburn guarenteed to crit.

[Mallakith]

Anything to make it useful again!

From what i read (yeah i believe it too!) wiz manaburn is going to (at some point i promise...) be coded to do a percentage of a mobs hps rather than just the wizards mana pool. Manaburn is majorly useless now even more so now wizards get twice as big crits for 1 spell and still have 98% mana left...

To ask for something similar may cause wizards to cry again (to be fair theyve been seriously buttfucked recently) but something on a par would be workable and not too awful on wizards.

SO:

as a ferinstance if manaburn code says:

if mana = 100% then mobs_hps = mobs_hp - 0.25*mobs_hps


Lifeburn could maybe be coded to do say 5% of the mobs hps if we full hps. I dont particularly want "ubernuke 2000" but a nice visible damage from my LB would make me think about casting it again.

As said on the recourse screw it and make the bang bigger for me. Ive rarely got the recourse done thanks to those twitchy clerics/druids anyway lol

[lesk]

I voted yes...even thought I haven't bought the aa yet. It's silly as it is. Wizards have normal nukes that land for more than the top necro on tunare's lifeburn would (according to eqrankings...).

If nothing else changes, at the very least the recast should be shortened. To use numbers that they use often, I would vote for 36 minutes. Although I don't think a chance to crit (based on existing dd crit aa's), a multiplier of some sort (1.5x your hp?, 2x?) for the base damage, and a shorter recast all together would be too much. That would put it more in line with manaburn.

[edited to add]
I was a little bit off about manaburn. I remember reading a dev post a couple of months ago about some planned upgrades to manaburn. The jist of it is here (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=wizardbalance&message.id=3884) if you want to make comparisons. I don't need lifeburn to equal manaburn, but I think lifeburn doing 20% of what manaburn can do isn't enough.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Mallakith@Nov 30 2005, 09:03 AM
Anything to make it useful again!

From what i read (yeah i believe it too!) wiz manaburn is going to (at some point i promise...) be coded to do a percentage of a mobs hps rather than just the wizards mana pool. Manaburn is majorly useless now even more so now wizards get twice as big crits for 1 spell and still have 98% mana left...

To ask for something similar may cause wizards to cry again (to be fair theyve been seriously buttfucked recently) but something on a par would be workable and not too awful on wizards.

SO:

as a ferinstance if manaburn code says:

if mana = 100% then mobs_hps = mobs_hp - 0.25*mobs_hps


Lifeburn could maybe be coded to do say 5% of the mobs hps if we full hps. I dont particularly want "ubernuke 2000" but a nice visible damage from my LB would make me think about casting it again.

As said on the recourse screw it and make the bang bigger for me. Ive rarely got the recourse done thanks to those twitchy clerics/druids anyway lol
Heh, feeling bad for wizzies is misplaced sympathy imo. They need ONE line of spells to land one to have incredible dps. We need 3 to come close. They're not very versatile, but they're not asked to do anything other dps..ever(or damn close). It's probably the easiest if not brainless casting class imaginable. Yeah they have to manage agro..but that's IT.

It's hard to feel bad for a class that can crit for 20k.

[Tryal Anderror]

Originally posted by Felicite@Nov 30 2005, 07:43 AM
Even if we can't get crits.. the recourse back is comical in terms of even casual HP total. If nothing else at least extend/increase that to return something closer to the hitpoints of today.

Not that I would say no to a shot of double HP, or faster recast.. but look at my first statement.. you have a loooot more HP than when this was added to the game. Like.. 3 or 4 ( or 5 ) times, right?

10 necros doing 10k each is 100k instant mana free damage.. that's something, surely.
That's kind of the thing...No, 10 necros doing 100k Damage instantly isn't anything at all.

When We got this ability I probably had like 3000-3500hp unbuffed, VT Gear is the level we were at in the Luclin expansion when these came out.

At That Time, The average xp mob I tended to fight had in the region of 6k to 10k hitpoints and the HP of a Raid mob was in the region of 1 million hp.

Now, Several expansions laters, I'm at 9700hp or so unbuffed, About 3 times as much..
But My Average XP mob now has 52,000hp, 5 to 10 times more.
Also, among common Raid mobs we now have things like Vishimtar, during the course of the fight its not uncommon for me to do 900,000 to 1 million hp of damage....so the actual hitpoints of the thing are likely in the ballpark of 15-20 Million.
Other fights like Draygun and Sendaii are like hour long fights, over which time you could easily do 2 or 3 million in damage.

So, No...While Lifeburn had a briefly useful period in PoP when some mobs were created with HPs in the range of only a few hundred thousand, we've long since outgrown it.
We're currently at a point where a standard Wizzy Crit can easily surpass the Damage we do with our once every 2 hour ability.

I'd also like to see the burn work in PvP on blue servers, like MB and DT do.

[Jebasiz]

Other fights like Draygun and Sendaii are like hour long fights, over which time you could easily do 2 or 3 million in damage.


Heh, too bad draygun's resists suck! Fire lands well atleast.. Sendaii is absolutely one of the most bullshit encounters I've ever seen. SoE can take their adds/hour of spawns and shove them up their asses(there's plenty of spiders to go around).

Phase 3 time used to be annoying just because it was sooooo much of the same thing for so long..Sendaii takes that to a whole new level.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Tryal Anderror@Nov 30 2005, 08:18 AM
Now, Several expansions laters, I'm at 9700hp or so unbuffed, About 3 times as much..
But My Average XP mob now has 52,000hp, 5 to 10 times more.
Also, among common Raid mobs we now have things like Vishimtar, during the course of the fight its not uncommon for me to do 900,000 to 1 million hp of damage....so the actual hitpoints of the thing are likely in the ballpark of 15-20 Million.
Other fights like Draygun and Sendaii are like hour long fights, over which time you could easily do 2 or 3 million in damage.
Thank you, Tryal, that's exactly what I was asking.. the scaling. I know we got more, too. But our 3 times more versus their 20 times does not seem balanced.

[Jebasiz]

Lifeburn would have to be around 35-50k dmg to have a significant effect on an encounter..they could even time it out per mob so that it can only be lifeburned once per minute..just have a recourse of 1250-1500 a tick dmg that lasts for 10 ticks, so when the recrourse dies off..then next necro can burn. That and it'd heal necros completely afterward.

[sauruman]

I like Usul's idea! Quoted for truth

delete the recourse.
shorten recast time.
let our already existing aa, foci, buffs regarding dmg and crit work on it.
no additional aa needed.

[Raidjin]

Or just allow it to stack, so every necro in the raid can use it at the exact same time...mkay, ty, drive thru

[Dranul]

A few suggestions, can be taken seperately from each other:

1) Make it so the damage is a substantial part of the mob's hp

2) Instead of more damage, add a debuff component that makes lifetap hit for more. Say Soulspike hits for 2k base when this debuff is on the mob.

3) Make the recourse go to the short buff bar and make it a group recourse.

4) Improve the recourse

5) Make the recourse also add mana. A kind of uber lich spell or akin to Canni V.

6) Reduce the timer to one game day, if not less.

[UsulDaNeriak]

Originally posted by Raidjin@Nov 30 2005, 06:56 PM
Or just allow it to stack, so every necro in the raid can use it at the exact same time...mkay, ty, drive thru
therefor we simply sacrifice the recourse.

Usul

[Mallakith]

Heh Jeb I feel sorry for wizards because a lot of their roles have been marginalised (plus one of my best mates plays a wiz).

I was really commenting on the fact that we are dot class so asking for an aa to do dd damage on a par is taking their role