Class issues list

[Jebasiz]

Not to undermine the work you're doing, or about to do with the top ten lists, but since SoE takes FOREVER to implement change..and since they like to churn out expansions every 5-7months, whatever change they implement is almost outdated before it's even thought about.

Some of the fundamental changes escape this instant aging into obsurity, but updated dmg mods on lifeburn, screwing with SoD have a very limited window of effictiveness before they need to be changed and updated again. I'm not saying it's pointles, but I'm suggesting more of a "looking forward" approach to changes made for our class.

If they're going to increase hp pools of mobs incredibly..well, I'd like dots to last longer(that'd also solve some of the agro problem), if they're going to make fights shorter, I want atleast one decent DD that isn't a lifetap. If they're going to make 400hp items with 3 aug slots rain from the skies at the zone in to easy zones..I want a 3k lifetap to compensate.

If we don't know where they're are going, how do we know what's pertinent to changes of our class that in all probability won't take effect to long after the next expansion? A lot of these changes are akin to changing the oil and rotating tires of a car that you don't ride anymore, or atleast something you only drive on weekends..I'd like to be able to suggest changes that we'll use and gain from on a daily basis (IE the daily ride gets the tune-up..not the *clunker* headed to the scrap yard).

Lets be smart (collectively) and drop the "band aid" fixes for things that will not be pertinent in 90% of how we spend our time in 5months and look ahead. It's been a trend for years now that mobs are hitting excessively hard, why not push for more avoidance options, or larger runes..maybe a persistent rune with a huge mana cost that refreshes itself every 90 seconds or so for 15-20mins(as an aa), so when we get hit, it'll be reapplied if we live through it.

Prolonged mortality..why can't I decide when I stand?

There's a lot of things we can ask for...lets make them pertinent to content that hasn't been beaten (easily, quickly and often) already.

[sauruman]

Yes, some of these proposed changes are bandaid type in nature. Thats a large part of the list, to fill in some of the "holes" SOE has left unknowingly. I feel this is the easy part of the class list.

Their may be some disagreement with the top ten list, its a guideline for SOE more then anything from what I can tell. What makes them pay attention? Necros posting on eqlive after this new list is posted, backing up the suggested changes etc. Going to the summits as well, helps.

I think you'll find several of the old items still in tact. For instance, I don't think any of us want to see mob resist changed off the list. Yes, it would be terrific if we could tell SOE how to make this no longer a problem, and bam they implement it. But for now we can only speculate and give common sense type answers for this problem. This might be a battle we have to carry on until the game is no more for all we know. For my part I'm F'n sick of mob resists the way they have been in the last 4 expansions, and I demand fixes.

THIS LIST CAN AND WILL CHANGE, OFTEN....

Just because something isn't on the list NOW doesn't mean it will be 3 or 6months before we can get it on there. I'm willing to move QUICKLY on the item of the day, as I believe this is critical for moving the game forward together.

Its easy to say lets not do the band aid fixes in the list... to actually suggest items outside the realm is extremely difficult.

[UsulDaNeriak]

i am relaxed about sony. we got a new class corrrespondent. and he will kick sonys ass on a monthly basis, to
1. get the top ten list done
2. ensure, that after every expansions our abilities get adjusted accordingly

so whats wrong?
at least i cant see an alternative to saurumans approach.

Usul

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak@Dec 7 2005, 01:30 PM
i am relaxed about sony. we got a new class corrrespondent. and he will kick sonys ass on a monthly basis, to
1. get the top ten list done
2. ensure, that after every expansions our abilities get adjusted accordingly

so whats wrong?
at least i cant see an alternative to saurumans approach.

Usul
It's not so much "his" approach..it's ours, where the problem is. I mean FFS "corpse summon", "control on WTD/AOTD" and the like as "class issues?"

Cosmetic issues, I could really care less about..I posted the topic, but it was more just to see what people are thinking. If we're going to suggest an upgrade or expansion of a line/aa, lets make it beneficial for more then content that's already been destroyed with ease. The last tough expansion was GoD, we seriously don't need to "toy" with stuff to help us be effective on vishimitar or in anguish. (yes, pets not hitting eggs even with 1bh's from mages pissed me off too).

[Rijak]

i think it's a reflection of how powerful a class we are... we can solo better than any other class (maybe equal in a few situations, but never worse)

we're consistantly right up there in DPS from the numbers i see... sure, there are fights here and there where resists bite into this (or so i here, though i have yet to see a comprehensive list of this mythical encounters ;) ), but that's to be expected... it's not like the encounters aren't being beaten or top raiding guilds have less necros than any other non-cleric class... as i said before, if every DoT we have almost always landed on every mob in every encounter, it simply wouldn't be a challenge anymore

plus, we have the all the utility from pulling to rez

all we have left to worry about are the minor issues... it's not like we're rogues :P

[UsulDaNeriak]

major change? whats that?

decrease our dps and give us more utilities? let necs become a heal and buff class? or what?

i guess "cosmetic" changes are the way to go. necs are the best necs since kunark, these days. hands down.
other classes should cry, not we necs.

and about resists. thats sonys way to balance. if we could load all dots all the time this would become boring pretty fast, imho.
ok some improveent would be nice. i recommend to up disease dmg and a cold line of dots for compensation.

regarding pets? i will vote YES for every genious idea i can see on saurumans forum.

Usul

[Rijak]

or maybe if they added a fire-like -100 resist mod to one of our current lines (poison or disease)

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Rijak@Dec 7 2005, 12:18 PM
or maybe if they added a fire-like -100 resist mod to one of our current lines (poison or disease)
They have.. it's called "Scent of Midnight" followed by "Scent of Terris".

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite+Dec 7 2005, 02:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Dec 7 2005, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Dec 7 2005, 12:18 PM
or maybe if they added a fire-like -100 resist mod to one of our current lines (poison or disease)
They have.. it's called "Scent of Midnight" followed by "Scent of Terris".[/b][/quote]
good point, but can (or have any tried) to use those in a raid situtation where resists are an issue?

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Rijak+Dec 7 2005, 07:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rijak @ Dec 7 2005, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Felicite@Dec 7 2005, 02:28 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Dec 7 2005, 12:18 PM
or maybe if they added a fire-like -100 resist mod to one of our current lines (poison or disease)
They have.. it's called "Scent of Midnight" followed by "Scent of Terris".
good point, but can (or have any tried) to use those in a raid situtation where resists are an issue? [/b][/quote]
I've never found the double tap to be all that great, qvic mobs are still going to not like fire, though I can land pyro one outa 6 casts... Poison gets a 50/50 or so and Disease is worse. Of course both scent lines are resisted a fair bit as well.

Midnight (Disease -200):
1: Increase Disease Counter by 18
2: Decrease Disease Resist by 55
6: Decrease Poison Resist by 55

Terris (Poison -0):
1: Increase Poison Counter by 9
2: Decrease Fire Resist by 33 (L52) to 36 (L58)
3: Decrease Poison Resist by 33 (L52) to 36 (L58)
4: Decrease Disease Resist by 33 (L52) to 36 (L58)

[Doc Hollidazed]

I want more disease based damage. As necromancers, we are supposed to make things decay. We should have a disease based dot with a small chance of a infecting other nearby mobs. Black Plague or something.

[UsulDaNeriak]

agree Rijak, if my raid cant debuff the mob, i cant as well.

such simple.

Usul

[UsulDaNeriak]

are you asking for something revolutionary, Jeb? i feel your pain)

i proposed once a spell which turns every mob into an undead. real undead, not just a skellie. lets say for 2 min. this would give all undead spell casters a chance to use their undead spells. pretty necriosh, isnt it?

but all i got after this proposals was a flame fest)

Usul

[Doc Hollidazed]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak@Dec 7 2005, 07:49 PM
are you asking for something revolutionary, Jeb? i feel your pain)

i proposed once a spell which turns every mob into an undead. real undead, not just a skellie. lets say for 2 min. this would give all undead spell casters a chance to use their undead spells. pretty necriosh, isnt it?

but all i got after this proposals was a flame fest)

Usul
Actually it's funny you say that, because when I was a little nec, I thought those nukes with the skeleton illsuion would allow me to use undead spells on them for a few seconds. To my dissatisfaction, the skeleton illusion tied to these ignite bones/conglaciation of bones spells wear a scam =)

[Felicite]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak@Dec 7 2005, 12:49 PM
are you asking for something revolutionary, Jeb? i feel your pain)

i proposed once a spell which turns every mob into an undead. real undead, not just a skellie. lets say for 2 min. this would give all undead spell casters a chance to use their undead spells. pretty necriosh, isnt it?

but all i got after this proposals was a flame fest)

Usul
I think that's genius, actually. "Wave of Decay" or the likes. Zombie-ize mobs.

And, yes, Disease should have something bigger.. it's the redheaded step child and should be our trademark.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by UsulDaNeriak@Dec 7 2005, 02:49 PM
are you asking for something revolutionary, Jeb? i feel your pain)

i proposed once a spell which turns every mob into an undead. real undead, not just a skellie. lets say for 2 min. this would give all undead spell casters a chance to use their undead spells. pretty necriosh, isnt it?

but all i got after this proposals was a flame fest)

Usul
Something with teeth. I don't want fluff, I want to be able to do something significant that I can't do now. That or do something we're good at now, in a remarkable way.

I don't want to "just look cool" or to have a 3% increase in DPS. I want something that people who see it say "holy F*CK, did you just see that?" Like they used to.

[UsulDaNeriak]

actually pallies and clers would love us for this spell)

and i am sure it would change some tactics in groups and raids, if the nec is able to do this.

and think about ourselves. change mobs to undead and mezz and slow.
single version and ae version, please ;)

just an idea.

Usul

[Dranul]

I actually proposed the idea of turning mobs into undead for our 1.5 clickie when they were first asking for input, /shrug.

With the exception of disease and cold, our dots are fine as is. Maybe bump up the resist mod on Horror and DN, but /shrug. But give us a line of cold dots, give us some better disease dots, and I'll be happy.

I would love some AAs that make me say "wow" though. I haven't done that since I first read the description for Wake the Dead, back when I first got into the game.

[sauruman]

Jeb for the stuff we raid its hard to get anyone to say holy fuck anymore. I parsed over a million on Vishi all the times we killed him, people just go nice. Its the nature of the raider. Do your job and your off the shit list.

As far as resists go I don't want another fucking debuff. We got the scent line. So what do they do? They UP the resists so high even that spell is meaningless. Its like how stores put shit on sale for 30%, the day AFTER they up the prices by 30%. Who gives a fuck. I want to see a tangible difference. And I don't want to mem another spell just to stay "on par" resist wise for the next expansion.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by sauruman@Dec 7 2005, 11:18 PM
Jeb for the stuff we raid its hard to get anyone to say holy fuck anymore.* I parsed over a million on Vishi all the times we killed him, people just go nice.* Its the nature of the raider.* Do your job and your off the shit list.

As far as resists go I don't want another fucking debuff.* We got the scent line.* So what do they do?* They UP the resists so high even that spell is meaningless.* Its like how stores put shit on sale for 30%, the day AFTER they up the prices by 30%.* Who gives a fuck.* I want to see a tangible difference.* And I don't want to mem another spell just to stay "on par" resist wise for the next expansion.
I think most necros do that on vish (I know I have), unless your guild has outstanding dps and kills it too quickly.

I'd really like just a standout ability that makes people stand up and take notice. I know people are jaded, but it'd nice to have a "difference-maker". Turning a living mob into undead would be one.

Debuffs landing..maybe some new and worthwhile group taps? Degeneration but maybe make it like a ferocity or accuracy enhancement. A good ac tap again?

SO much has been taken away or aged to useless. It doesn't take much time to think of something that we could go back to doing, if it were worth the effort/time to do so.

Reastablish our old spell lines with current versions. Our lich line is great, but comparative mana regen from necro to non-necro has been less and less in our favor expansion after expansion. Shaman's even out regen by a good margin now. This should be fixed imo too..if SOE truly claims to be seeking balance HOLD them to it.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Dec 8 2005, 11:40 AM
Debuffs landing..maybe some new and worthwhile group taps? Degeneration but maybe make it like a ferocity or accuracy enhancement. A good ac tap again?

SO much has been taken away or aged to useless. It doesn't take much time to think of something that we could go back to doing, if it were worth the effort/time to do so.

Reastablish our old spell lines with current versions.
Amen. I remember doing LDoNs with my old guild and keeping multiple group taps on us for the entire mission. Keeping some of the (few) group friendly skills we have would be nice.

But you have to admit changing a buncha NPCs into Zombies for a while would be an "oh fuck what was that!?!" moment.

[Rijak]

an upgrade to our group health taps would be very nice in many situations these days, with aoes, rampages, etc, being so common... and probably less controversial than the manatap issue

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Rijak@Dec 8 2005, 12:20 PM
an upgrade to our group health taps would be very nice in many situations these days, with aoes, rampages, etc, being so common... and probably less controversial than the manatap issue
Not mana tap.. but AC, ATK, STR.. you know, like we had in the 50s.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite+Dec 8 2005, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Dec 8 2005, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Dec 8 2005, 12:20 PM
an upgrade to our group health taps would be very nice in many situations these days, with aoes, rampages, etc, being so common... and probably less controversial than the manatap issue
Not mana tap.. but AC, ATK, STR.. you know, like we had in the 50s.[/b][/quote]
those too... i just meant that it might be a more palitable argument than the upgrades to the mindwrack and twitch lines they've basically said no to

[Terrnia]

I think that the idea of Cold dots would be very cool. I hate having the same spells every level, when ie mages get so many different types of spells. And Discease Dots I agree should be given more power. I would love to cast my D-dot more often but its too low dps don't make it practicle in a group situation when the mobs drop in 30 sec. There is no point in casting it. I would like to see the dot types and dmgs increase. THe resists are fine, I enjoy not getting it on every cast, makes it fun. The plauge or whatever idea, the one that would have a chance to spread to other mobs would be SO COOL.

[Dranul]

Originally posted by Terrnia@Dec 8 2005, 11:56 PM
I think that the idea of Cold dots would be very cool. I hate having the same spells every level, when ie mages get so many different types of spells. And Discease Dots I agree should be given more power. I would love to cast my D-dot more often but its too low dps don't make it practicle in a group situation when the mobs drop in 30 sec. There is no point in casting it. I would like to see the dot types and dmgs increase. THe resists are fine, I enjoy not getting it on every cast, makes it fun. The plauge or whatever idea, the one that would have a chance to spread to other mobs would be SO COOL.
Does anyone else think the spreading dots is a bad idea? Chanters hate us enough as it is, guys.

[Schaeffer]

Yeah see that's the thing with the communicable dots. You'd have to worry about spacing if you were using mezzer's. I guess it wouldn't be that bad if we had our ST upgrade so we could re-mezz the mob ourselves to save the chanters gimp ass. Otherwise it'd only be real useful when kiting multiples or if you had an offtank to deal with adds.