Kept/Dropped Items Discussion thread

[sauruman]

After voting, this is how the top ten list will look!

1. Lowering of DoT resists
2. Willful Death
3. Lifeburn upgrade
4. Pet haste increase, load time decrease, range of spell increase
5. Channeling Mastery
6. Mind Wrack upgrade
7. Pet changes (fix bugs, increase IQ, adjust for raid content)
8. Parity of DoT Crits
9. Cosmetic changes (different lich model, different pet, new horse)
10. Screaming Terror Upgrade

Here are the consolidated results from both communities (in what items to drop):

1. Lowering of DoT resists - 3
2. Willful Death - 0
3. Lifeburn upgrade - 3
4. Pet haste increase, load time decrease, range of spell increase - 0
5. Channeling Mastery - 0
6. Mind Wrack upgrade - 0
7. utility (Group taps) - 18
8. Pet changes (fix bugs, increase IQ, adjust for raid content) - 6
9. Undead utility upgrades (nukes, dots, slow, mez, lull) - 21
10. Parity of DoT Crits - 8
11) Cosmetic changes (different lich model, different pet, new horse) - 15
*12) Swarm pet controls (another UI window, or linked to /pet attack) - 26
*13) Screaming Terror Upgrade - 15
*14) Summon corpse upgrade (across zones summon prefered as this had the largest % of the vote) - 21


For those curious on how votes were tallied/etc here is a little more in depth information.
I sifted through each thread on eqnecro and necrotalk, and went through the votes as they were cast. People that voted for less then 4 items or more then 4 items, even though they didn't follow directions, kept their vote intact. Also, those that voted for 1-6 items were left unhindered. After analyzing the effect of these so called don't follow directions necros, the effect was neglible on voting and wouldn't have changed the final results.

I'll see you in the "writer's critique" thread in this forum! The wording of these issues is about as important as the actual issues themselves, so I'll look forward to hearing your input.

Feel free to express your thoughts on how the top ten list voting has gone thus far in this thread.

[Jebasiz]

Are Necromancers going to get a new pet model other than Spectres and Skeletons? We don't have any plans at the moment to expand the necromancer pet repertoire beyond specters and skeletons. Adding some different pet models for all the pet classes is something we'd definitely like to do, though.

from hodge podge.

Does that really need to be on the list still? They already want to do it. Why ask them again?

[Dranul]

They also gave a big fuck you on Life Burn too. And any cosmetic change for that matter.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Dranul@Dec 28 2005, 04:20 PM
They also gave a big fuck you on Life Burn too.
Such an angry young man. Did you see the "Steal this Book" thread?

List seems fine.. seems like 10 diverse and reasonable items.

Can we put Willful Death as number 1? Since it's a crime?

And Channelling Mastery as number 2? Since we should have gotten it.. and number 1 is fucked.. so we are going to NEED CM to have a snowballs chance in Hell?

[Dranul]

Originally posted by Felicite+Dec 28 2005, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Dec 28 2005, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dranul@Dec 28 2005, 04:20 PM
They also gave a big fuck you on Life Burn too.
Such an angry young man. Did you see the "Steal this Book" thread? [/b][/quote]
Feli doesn't like me =(

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Dranul+Dec 28 2005, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dranul @ Dec 28 2005, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Felicite@Dec 28 2005, 11:24 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Dranul@Dec 28 2005, 04:20 PM
They also gave a big fuck you on Life Burn too.
Such an angry young man. Did you see the "Steal this Book" thread?
Feli doesn't like me =( [/b][/quote]
Oh behave! I love you just fine.. come "play" on FV anytime.

[sauruman]

Nah, I don't think cosmetic changes or lifeburn are ruled out quite yet. A lot of points I can make along these lines. I addressed this earlier this week in this thread on eqnecro that I'll link so I'm not as redundant:

Halfling Hodgepodge answers some necro questions (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=2387)

And here is what I said over there!
Some extremely good points here. I'll take this opportunity to elaborate on a LOT of various things!

First, I popped an inquiry about lifeburn a week or so back, to Rashere and Rytan. Rytan responded that lifeburn has scaled with newer content, as its cap was not hard like the wizards 9k on manaburn. He did not rule out an upgrade there, and so I think its premature to say there is not chance for an upgrade, just due to the Hodgepodge reply of the moment. The chance might be smaller, but as a community we have thrown our full weight behind the idea, some extremely great ideas of how new enhanced versions have been proposed, and I think in the short to long term, we have a fighting chance. Simply, wizards got screwed harder and longer then us in their big class aa from many years ago, and its taken 2 years to fix since they nerfed the hell out of it. If we provide specifics, follow up on the class ten items etc, I don't see why we can't do the same, in a lot quicker time.

As a community, necromancers are about the most active and vocal in things EQ, with warriors and clerics the biggest other body of lobbying power. There are some amazing correspondents out there, which have some extremely articulate things to say, and have a large amount of knowledge in the high end game. They have been around longer then I have (as correspondents), but that isn't necessarilly to my disadvantage, or to the necomancer community as a whole. Sissl blazed an awesome path and he has notoriety in this game and to the higher up people that will never fade away. And we still have every ability as any other class has to get our voices heard.

However, necromancers are divided in a lot of ways. Necrotalk and eqnecro have sort of a following around them. Its ironic to me because looking at the pollling data from both sites it's extremely similar! The comments and traffic however are different, so its worthwhile for me to post information on both sites, as equally as I can. And this will be something I'll endeavor to do as often as I can! Really both communities are different communities, but in both communities I feel welcome and I'm glad to be a part of them. Hell, think of it this way. Some classes have ONE site, thats low traffic. We have two sites that are high traffic. More power to us. This is to our advantage and I can't stress it enough. Keep up the good work there, especially thank you to the admin of both sites who have been tremendously helpful getting the class issues forums up and providing a warm welcome.

Usul has actually chilled out quite a bit from his earlier days. He has been and will continue to be a commanding force in our discussions and I wouldn't have it any other way. Jebasiz on necrotalk is my nemesis however currently (although I'm always taking applications to the position), and I wouldn't have it any other way! Hes intelligent, though we disagree on a few things.... A little competition and debate keeps us all honest really. Anyone that can comment in a well thought out way no matter how aggressive earns my respect. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like a little fire.

Step one for me has been the formation of this new top ten list, in a coherant, diplomatic way (yes I've had to be a bit more vocal then some of ya might like but just to keep us on some sort of track...). For us this serves two major purposes. One, it gives definition to our class. We can identify the most critical things that have been overlooked, that need reinforcement in future expansions, and define our role in various situations in that way. Two, I'll have something to bring SOE as often as possible when I get emails from devs or other correspondents (or initiate them as I've been doing a LOT of lately).

One thing necromancers need to step up in general is our activity on the eqlive boards. They KNOW we are out there, in a huge presence, asking for specific changes. Maybe they are afraid or whatever. What we can do to remind them continuously that we are kicking is read the big forums there, such as the veteran's lounge, and necrotomb forums. I would urge these posts be well thought out and within the posting rules there (not flames or attacking others, cause you can get your account banned for that there heh). All the devs read these forums, just at a different frequency, so if you post something amazing or silly, they will probably read it and it will ultimately reflect on our class in whatever way their thought processes perceive it.

I don't want to negate the discussions we have here or on necrotalk, but unless I tell them something was said here, or someone or me links a discussion, the chance is run the idea won't reach their ears. This is good and bad. Good in that we can freely post parses, super sekrit infoz etc here without fear of them seeing it. Bad in that ultimately this information gets somewhat filtered. This is largely my role, and take my word for it I've made quite a presence already, enthusiastically but not negatively. Usually when something comes up such as a bug, itemization issue, or just want to raise the issue, I paraphrase the concern, and link the discussion in that thread. That signals to them I'm not just making something up I want to push an agenda, but that the community agrees/disagrees with whatever, and why. Then, the higher up for me (Kytherea) will send that to the correct dev(s).

I am a little different in my method in that I'm a little more advocated in my approach. It does not mean I'm blowing off the other side, and often I won't even post my direct opinion. It just means I'm trying to provide some guidance, humor etc to the conversation when it needs a shot in the arm so to speak. We are the most lively of communities when it comes to class boards, and I consider this another of our greatest strong points.

Finally, Silayn does bring up an interesting point. Really it is a balancing act in some respects. If we clearly get a gift item no other class gets, they will be asking for something in return. This is the toddler on the playground scenario, but in some respects its just how it goes. So some items we will have to be patient on for new expansion releases, etc. Getting them on the list says clearly to anyone who reads it that we are interested in these particular items. I think they key is getting them to the developers and asking time to time intelligent questions, and talking with the beta team as they work on the newest expansions of the day so they can incorporate a partcular concept in a new expansion. Although I will be pushing for the incorporation of all of the items on the list, some I will be notably pushing for harder, that the full community agrees on. These are number 1-6 on the new list especially. Some things like resists for instance require constant work on, cause as we have seen, by doing doing a lot or a little in this respect, the mechanic of our role and of other casters can be greatly affected.

My solution to this complex problem is simple. Go to eqlive, eqnecro, and necrotalk from time to time, post your thoughts and ideas etc. Specifically stick to a few items on the new list that you really want to see fixed/pushed through on the new list, and post about them on eqlive forums. Don't post anything you don't agree/believe in. Articulate your own thoughts and just be honest, thats all I could ever ask!

Look at some of the major changes we've seen to the class in the past year for the better. My two favorite are the horror line recast reductions, and the extreme shortening of cast times of our dots. We can make things happen, and we can help set the agenda of where we think our class can go, independently and also dependantly of the developers.

Now as far as cosmetic changes go...
A new model for lich and pets in the near future needs to be a battle drum. It really has been one of those consistant things we have been asking for for several years now. Lets not change that up just yet. They didn't rule out changes there, just in the short term. Thats also the impression I got as far as lifeburn is concerned. Till they say positively 100% no on these items, we shouldn't give up so easilly. Now amending wording as we go, etc, thats something that needs to be done. See "writer's critique" for that. Don't like how the suggested lifeburn would work there and think it would be extremely unbalanced? Say so there.

Thx for the suggestions so far, and really I do see where your coming from. Lets not let those meanies (devs) get us down, ok?

[UsulDaNeriak]

the list is fine. lets stay with it.

if sony introduces new pet models, we have a slot to renew. great.

BUT just IF. so far, i hear just the usual sony-blabla.

Usul

PS: they already did announce an upgrade to screaming terror officially. and where is it??? never trust in sonys blabla!

[Jebasiz]

Blah..I"m not your nemesis. I misunderstood you a little..some of the things you put out on the list(that whole misrepresentation thing) pissed me off. I'm just blunt and a bit over aggressive.

SoE is going to force *some* compromise, I'm aware of that. That doesn't mean we have to bring them a list of half-wants/needs and then have them chip away at that. (airforce slogin inc) Aim High and maybe, just maybe we'll get some of what we can actually agree upon is reasonable.

All that being said, I like the top 10 as it stands. If we get half of that we'll be well set for new content(IMO). Now go push it. Don't accept sorry ass excuses of why they won't do things.

Also, for the love of all things unholy..if they say "yes, we'll do that" FIND OUT WHEN(unlike screaming terror) and to what extent they mean to implement our suggestions...(no more willfull death and fear "upgrades" please)

[Rijak]

not bad... though i'm more concerned about the wording... the order needs work too... whether intended or not, people will pay more attention to #1 than #10... order them by "votes"

1. Willful Death
2. Channeling Mastery
3. Mind Wrack upgrade
4. Pet haste increase, load time decrease, range of spell increase
5. Lowering of DoT resists
6. Lifeburn upgrade
7. Pet changes (fix bugs, increase IQ, adjust for raid content)
8. Parity of DoT Crits
9. Screaming Terror Upgrade
10. Cosmetic changes (different lich model, different pet, new horse)

[Felicite]

I think, please correct, we are not asking for "new" pet models.. just asking if they could use a few of the undead models they already have?

So.. more like "different"?

[Xelgadis]

If there were a consistant variety of undead throughout the game (hah), you could almost do a "Monster Summoning" type model on the pets. As such, in order to make that work now, they'd have to add several models to the global table (which they won't do, as it might take another half hour of work).

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Dec 29 2005, 11:42 AM
If there were a consistant variety of undead throughout the game (hah), you could almost do a "Monster Summoning" type model on the pets. As such, in order to make that work now, they'd have to add several models to the global table (which they won't do, as it might take another half hour of work).
Ok.. just give us the Roboghey, then.. since you cannot add new things to the global table.

You know.. a Monster Summoning type pet would be fun.. take an undead from the zone table, or use the *shudder* current ones if none.

Or just /pet mute .. dunno why that is so hard.

[Rijak]

i'd assume the easiest would be to redesign the spectre like they redesigned the skellie a while back... or to swap out the spectre for some existing model

[Jebasiz]

Knight of Terris(not mounted) please.

Maybe the undead in Potorment.

A "new" spectre wouldn't be bad...

A new Ghoul model could be nice.

That or we could have a pet BAT /tease xelgadis!

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Dec 29 2005, 01:58 PM
That or we could have a pet BAT /tease xelgadis!
OMG!


F That! (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=7750&source=Live)

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Felicite@Dec 29 2005, 01:47 PM
Ok.. just give us the Roboghey, then.. since you cannot add new things to the global table.
That is such a bullshit and copout answer, I'm surprised the developers try to tell us that. It is -not- hard to increase the size of an array, assuming they didn't hard code crap that any vaguely intelligent programmer would know better than to try.

[Warspite]

The new zombie model... or, as I have mentioned before, the Knight model from CoDecay.

I like those.

Besides, I recently saw a player character running around the bazaar under the new zombie illusion... whether a potion or a GM / Guide or a spell.. the model was available... for the bazaar!

New pet model? What's the freakin' hold up?!

[sauruman]

PS: they already did announce an upgrade to screaming terror officially. and where is it??? never trust in sonys blabla!

This was promised back in March. I donno what the hell happened, but it got held up along with hundreds of other things on their "to do" list. So I asked about this about a week after I was offered correspondent (as well as asked about Willful Death) and received the responce that an upgrade isn't planned on it in the short term. This was promised to us, and for that reason alone it needs to stay on the list since they dropped the ball. This will be that little reminder to them.

I like the idea of ordering the items by votes received. We'll see on that.