Question for the high sages...

[Neante]

Found myself in a agro kiting group yesterday and volenteered to pull and kite.... found it very difficult to hold agro on the mobs. I tried envenomed bolt which is a mass damage DOT but still lost agro several times in a fight. Then a Beast master took over kiting duties and he was able to hold agro with a very low level spell... can't remember which one. but dang, am I doing something wrong. Anyone have any suggestions for a mana efficient way to hold agro for kiting?

[DogMeat]

I use poison bolt, i think its called that. Its a lev 4 dot with DD componet.. fast casting, only like 30m, a fewe cast of that should pull aggro off anyone unless they got the low health aggro(no way to pull them off)

[Schaeffer]

Darkness line is good for aggro, dot and snare is high aggro, you get two for one

[Salizarr]

I use the debuffers spells such as Heart Flutter and Asystole. I get aggro from that no time :)

Sal

[Jebasiz]

CoC

[Starisan]

You need to out damage the other pets or players casting on the mob. So one E-bolt on a mob might get you high on the hate list at 1st it will decay fast. You need to build a solid stack of DOT doing a consant amount of damage. Refreshing your e-bolt and darkness before they run out is normally more then enough. Can you give more specifics to the group you are ktiting with? or are you solo? If you are solo make sure your pet taunt is off.

[Ahura Mazda]

CoC or EB are the 2 I use for aggro and they both seem to work each time. A little Horror -or- BoT after either one and you have a mob with you until death do u part.

[kilalotofnomes]

strange i never have problem holding aggro.

Darkness
fun pyre
Cessation of Cor

then throw in IF NEEDED(depending on the size of the group)
pyro
sarynn kiss

stack pyro to keep dmg up
use Cessation of Cor for aggro

its dmg is nothing but CoC provides a ton of aggro for the mana used.
really good for kite groups.

[Trizel]

embracing darkness + funeral pyre + blood of thule = one very pissed mob.. oh and sit (even for 1 second) then stand back up and resume kiting from time to time.. really drive them crazy too

[Aryse Andenter]

Hmmm, is it true that you need to out-damage others to keep agro? I didn't think so, because some things piss it off more than others, or double count (like snare being snare + dot in annoying a mob, and taps being damage + heal). Also, magic line of spells seems to piss things off more than others anyway, and fire line seems to be low agro in my experience, not sure if this is true.

My best method is to hit it with snare, a high damage dot, a few old dots if this isn't working and/or a few taps, and sit at two points in your run on your kite circuit. Remind everyone to turn taunt off too, it's easy to forget.

[Antilight]

Sounds like someone may have been getting aggro from you on purpose or accident. The BL Spell, flash of light (I think) gains a ton of aggro. Some folks who are use to getting aggro might have a problem controlling when NOT to get aggro. What I'm saying is, it might not have been all your fault.



Antilight ;)

[Fizzleplink]

In general, if something adds counters (fire, disease, or curse) or an ongoing debuff it tends to carry with it more agro than an equivalent non-counter type spell. Darkness, Heart Flutter, Asystole and CoC are excellent agronabbers.

I out-agro my druid partner, and she puts more dots on than I do. Oh, the joys of clicky dots.

[Trizel]

and of course, when fighting undead types, shackle of spirit is a wonderful agro spell.

[Fizzleplink]

Is it? I spent a good amount of time at the pyramid in DL. Pulled with Shackle, and Boney nabbed agro immediately every time. Does our slow add counters like the shamanic one?

[Spuukee]

I'm not sure what level you're hunting at, but once mob's become unfearable, the lvl 4 fear spell generates huge aggro for very little mana. I use it all the time when aggro kiting in PoV outer cave groups. Darkness and fear are all I need to cast to maintain aggro. Of course, I stack other dots on, but I don't really think I'd have to in order to maintain aggro.

[Trizel]

It is for me at least Fizzleplink ... last time I used it in group, I had to FD right after or it was "A Xi Vius hugs you for 167 points" ...to be totally honest and accurate, the mob would run to me if I sit right after casting , ( didn't start sending dots in though, only pet then Shackle was enough to piss em off).

[Jebasiz]

Is it? I spent a good amount of time at the pyramid in DL. Pulled with Shackle, and Boney nabbed agro immediately every time. Does our slow add counters like the shamanic one?

That's do to the nature of undead hitting the closest thing to them. Undead agro is different then live agro in that respect, in the fact that they're stupid. Atleast low level undead just stop and hit the closest thing to them almost reguardless of who's damaging or debuffing them the most...there are limits but undead just aren't that smart heh.

Shackle of Spirit Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data


Slot Description
2: Decrease Attack Speed by 49% (L39) to 70% (L60)


Mana: 175 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 4 Recast Time: 5
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Fizzle Adj 10
Deletable: Yes Dot Stacking: Yes
Interruptable: Yes Short Buff Box: No
Target Type: Undead Spell Type: Detrimental
Source: Live 02/10


Classes: NEC/39
Duration: 2.0 mins @L39 to 3.3 mins @L65
Items with spell: Spell: Shackle of Spirit


Cast on other: Someone is hindered by a shackle of spirit.
Game Description: Surrounds an undead target in a shackle of spirits, slowing their attack speed.

no clue on counters...

[Fizzleplink]

Well, fresh out of Mistmoore dungeon (ding! 52 finally) and I can say this:

(1) There is good agro to this (or my SK MT wasn't up to Boney's standards)
(2) It's nowhere near agro from the shamanic slow.

The vampire undead seem to have more normal agro rules than the mindless undead types do.

Snooped through Lucy as well, and pulled out the lev 29 shaman slow to compare:
Tagar's Insects
2: Decrease Attack Speed by 34% (L29) to 50% (L60)
3: Increase Disease Counter by 9

[Trizel]

Grats on 52 Fizzleplink !

[Xelgadis]

In my experience, snare and debuff will shoot you up the hate list faster than anything. Out damaging is the other way.

Soloing Veksar, I typically will pull w/ embracing darkness and immediately follow up with shackle of spirit before sending the trusty child of bertoxx in. Those two spells are typically enough that the mob will usually ignore my pet, no matter how much dmg and taunting he does, until i FD. Scent of Terris is another good spell for generating hate as it's a pure debuff, usually I can get aggro faster w/ SoT than w/ CoC from my experience in experimenting with the two spells.

Another thing to note is that a spell being resisted will generally generate more aggro than when it lands successfully.

In experimenting around w/ aggro in the various zones, I've noticed that aggro in HoH resembles that of low lvl undead. Example: when pulling mobs to the graveyard and kiting them there, if you bring a hot mob in that hasn't been snared yet, it's very liable to aggro on the nearest player. If they're snared, they don't do that, but if hot, you don't know who they'll go after. I've seen many people get killed accidently because of the way mobs aggro there (including myself a few times).

[Neante]

Originally posted by Spuukee@Feb 9 2004, 09:24 PM
I'm not sure what level you're hunting at, but once mob's become unfearable, the lvl 4 fear spell generates huge aggro for very little mana. I use it all the time when aggro kiting in PoV outer cave groups. Darkness and fear are all I need to cast to maintain aggro. Of course, I stack other dots on, but I don't really think I'd have to in order to maintain aggro.
ahh thanks this is right up the alley of what I was looking for.... low mana cost to keep the agro kiting going non-stop... and handle multiple adds if required... I will try it thanks!

[Doomfir]

Don't know about the counters vs agro bit. Some of it I think is coinsidence or based more in what kind of dmg it is doing (like blood of thule). Counters are typically used as a measure to judge what it takes to remove a DoT more than anything. For example Counteract disease is like a remove disease dot curse counter 9. Togars insects is disease based and has a DoT curse counter of 12 which means it takes 2 casts of counteract disease to remove togars insects. DoTs like Horror for example are a l;jlkj to remove because if it sticks it has a curse counter of 24. Using conventional methods of removing the spell is a no no cause you are going to be dead before you get it off you.

I really dont think the curse counter has allot to do with the agro of a spell though since some of the highest agro spells such as shackle of spirit can be removed very easily. There are just some spells that really will make the mobs mad.

These are
Stuns
Slows
Snares
Debuffs

and I personally think they are in the order I listed for what makes them agro the fastest. There is some leeway in this though. I am sure people can find exceptions to the agro content of each type of spell. There are just variations of each that gain agro faster than others.

Pally's use stuns to hold agro.. Shadowknights use their lowest level snare.

[Fizzleplink]

Disease and poison counters definitely change the amount of agro a spell has. Even since the've been retuned (2 yrs ago?) they still add quite a bit.

Turgur's etc. never used to have disease counters. I'd slow a mob, and the warrior could generally get it right back off me.

Disease counters got added. I'd slow a mob, and it would take a paladin or SK a noticable amount of time to get agro back... Warriors? Right.

They changed the amount of hate that counters add, and agro went somewhere in the middle. Not as good as it used to be, not as bad as it was.

As another f'rinstance, let's look at 2 of my favorite shamaning toys:
Bane of Nife (10 poison counters, 150 DD + 214/tick DoT)
Tears of Saryrn (3 waves of 650 DD).

WARNING: HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION FORTHCOMING BASED UPON THE HIGHLY UNLIKELY CIRCUMSTANCE OF ME ACTUALLY TRYING TO SIT RATHER THAN CANNING MY ARSE OFF.

I can generally cast Tears and sit. All 3 waves it, critter still generally mad at MT. One cast of Bane and I don't get to sit for quite some time. This becomes quite fun when I'm Canni-dancing and waiting for my Canni V to refresh. Mob comes at me, mob goes back... etc.

Malo, for instance, is pretty low agro. Our Scent line isn't. It's as bad (or good, depending on goals) as the Darkness series.

Quite honestly, I haven't found Bane (the shaman curse dot) with its curse counters to be as bad as Slow or Bane of Nife. I'd love to see what happens when we have one necro cast Blood of Thule and one cast Horror.

[Jebasiz]

Horror isn't really bad agro, considering the dmg it does. Blood of thule is quite a bit more.

Darkness, BoT, horror, Fpok, SK...will get you and ensure you keep agro in most cases. Ya have an horror, and want to talk to a friend while easy exping, goto PoV and try it out....I can almost guarentee if your darknessing and casting BoT(first) you'll keep agro, barring low life agro from your friend. Yeah he could use CoC/ebolt, SoT, BoT and horror to maybe pull it off you...refresh BoT and agro is yours again.

side note:blood of thule don't work in Veksar, but Horror does.

[Xelgadis]

I don't have Horror yet, but will after maybe 3 or 4 more EF adventures. It's good to know that it will work in Veksar, for when I'm in a farming mood, as I was a little miffed when I discovered that Blood of Thule is pretty much useless there.

[Doomfir]

That was my point. There are spells with more agro with lower counters. The counter is more of a way to judge removal and how bad a spell is going to be to get off than anything else.

Cessation of Cor for example is undoubtedly one of our most agro getting spells, but it's curse counter is only 5. I maintain the list I set first is the best judge of agro a spell will draw, but as I said, I think there are other attention getters that don't even fit into that list. (like BoT).

BoT is not totally useless in Veksar. I have managed to stick it on the golems though against the undead neither Disease nor Poison will stick worth a flip if at all. Just use your fire dot FPoK and the new one we are getting.

[Neante]

ahhh everyone take note here.... The most mana efficient way to be kiter in agro kite group is to pull with cascading darkness.... Big dot... my strongest is envenomed bolt... Then just cast level 4 fear as suggested in above post.... Recast fear a couple of times to make sure you keep agro, never lost agro once... was able to make several, several pulls before running out of mana. Because Mobs in PoN were 50+ mobs fear COULD not stick and I received a message that the mob was too high, but then said it was resisted... so it counts as a resist every time for little to no mana. This line up was very succesfull and all upcoming necros ready to start the agro kite profession should take note.

Enjoy!

[Yattan]

You can hold aggro in a full kiting group with someone else snaring with only the level 4 poison bolt. I've had a pet eaten on incoming with multiple pulls and had the need to peel a mob off several times. With me doing no damage at all (other than what PB does) I can still keep a mob on me with poison bolt. :) I've heard fear works, but I've never tried it personally. Hope that helps.

[Xovian]

Didnt read all the posts but i will list the spells i know by testing cause huge amounts of aggro.

Asystole
Envenomed Bolt
Cessation of Core
Blood of Thule
Darkness ( any version )
Shackle of Spirit
Scent of Terris

Rule of thumb is what does the dot do for damage or effect?

If it does one or more of the following it will cause agro, and lots of it generally:
-Dots that have a DD componenet to them
-Dots that debuff ( ac, atk, stats, ect. )as well as doing their damage
-Debuffs in either attack or movement speed. Both can cause big agro.
-Debuffs in general, also can cause lots of agro.

Just a little bit of the specifics :)

<edit> didnt count big damage spells like horror, just cause its dps is almost that of a DD spell.

-Xovian

[Tepish]

I spam Darkness when aggro kiting in POV, works quite well.

TepishX

[Mortimus]

I do a fair bit of aggro kiting but I have learned a lot from this thread. Thanks a lot guys. Esp for the tip about the low level fear spell, that is gold dust where I want to save on mana, maybe towards the end of a kite when I don't want to waste mana on another DoT or when in a group with lots of melee DPS.

As for SoS I find this is a major aggro builder where I want my pet to tank, often overriding the pet aggro in Veksar. Tried using Darkness but had same result, mobs went for me, not the pet. My solution was to pull using Splurt. With the low damage caused by the first couple of ticks my pet gets aggro straight away. SoS doesn't attract aggro after the pet has already started beating on the mob. Of course this same DoT was causing major damage later on, once the mob had forgotten me. (Thought they don't last that long now ;))

Mort.

[Cannukko]

I wonder why no one mentions Insidious Retrogression. If I pull with that spell, the mob will chase me for mebbe 15-30 seconds, even with a Rog pet stabbing away. If I have a tank in trouble and already have a dot or two on the mob, usually I can get it to chase me for a bit by just popping a Retro on it. Then again, I'm only level 54, so I guess the FP line is prolly better.