FT vs Regn

[Draz]

Which would be better for us...

On the LDON chest slot we can have either:

Flowing Thought 2

or

Regenertaion 5

Your advice would be apprciated.

[Nigyl]

Either, really, assuming you're high 50s or above. Regen 5 should be slightly better when Liching, but FT2 will work all the time, even if you're not Liching.

[Schaeffer]

I'd go with the regen 5. While you're mounted, you get med benefit but not sitting regen benefit. And point taken about ft working all the time Nigyl, but if you're engaged with a MoB you should always be in lich form. HP = Mana, and the faster you regen HP, the more mana becomes available to you. You get an extra 30 HP a minute with regen 5, that's a tick of lich for free every minute, which = 20 extra mana a minute. FT2 only gives you 10 extra mana a minute. So the regen 5 is twice as good as FT 2 when you look at it that way.

I'm always in some sort of lich form if I'm not full mana, even while travelling because standing mana regen sucks. So I throw up Call of Bones (only thing that sucks is you have to recast when you zone) and i'm regening mana as I travel (much faster than FT2). My regen is fast enough to recover the lost HP, and by the time I get to my destination I"m full mana.

[Draz]

Guess I should have mentiond I am at lvl 61 and working on AA...

I was leaning toword Regen 5 , but everyone talks about FT.....

Thanks

And I look forward to reading more input... I will wait a week before I decide..

I do belive that HP's = mana and Life LOL

[Nigyl]

So I throw up Call of Bones (only thing that sucks is you have to recast when you zone) and i'm regening mana as I travel (much faster than FT2).

Duh, how come I never thought of that :). I'd completely forgotten that my regen now is more than enough to compensate for the lower-level lich spells.

[Schaeffer]

ok well at 61 then you're using Arch Lich which is minus 53 HP plus 35 mana. I'm assuming you have regen 3 and for the sake of argument not an iksar so your normal standing regen is 4 for a total of 7HP gained per tick standing, Making arch lich hit for 46 HP a tick.

With regen 5, it'll make Arch Lich - 41 HP + 35 mana = 1.17 HP's lost to mana gained ratio.

Instead with FT2 standing you add the extra 2 mana to the original subtract the HP lost by no regen 5, makes it -46 HP + 37 mana = 1.24 HP's per mana gained ratio

When it's time for Seduction of Saryrn at Level 64, minus 63 HP a tick plus 50 mana. Add innate regen of 7 and get hit for 56 hp a tick.

with regen 5 standing, - 51 HP + 50 mana = a 1.02 to one ratio

with ft2, - 56 HP + 52 mana = a 1.08 to one ratio.

It's still a better HP to Mana ratio with the regen 5 than the FT2, it's up to you really if that difference is negligible. I'd take any FT or regen items I could get my scales on, but if i had my choice of regen 5 or ft 2 like you do, the numbers don't lie. Pretty much take whatever has the higher numbers because it is slightly better. Others disagree that the difference is so small, (.06) that it doesn't matter, but I still feel every little bit counts because it all adds up over time.

If it were FT 5 verses regen 5 to make the ratios the same at 64, then it'd be a tough choice. I guess then it'd be total preference as to whether you'd rather tap more or not, becuase with the FT you'd gain mana faster and have more to use on a tap, but with the regen you save more hp so the less you have to tap. Personally, I'd rather have the HP. Lifetaps cost more mana than just plain dots or nukes (they do damage and heal at the same time, they're supposed to cost more), and so in my opinion, should only be used when you need them. Our other dots and nukes are more mana efficient therefore the less hp you lose to lich, the more mana you save to use on something else, more bang for your buck.

[Draz]

I agree with the above numbers and am leaning toward the regen 5...

(I have another regen item, how many stack...)

I am close to getting FT4 and FT2 on other items as well....So I think over all the regen 5 may be the best

Thank you for the above post....I will continue to check here. To see if something was missed.

[Keystone]

the name of the game for any caster class is mana regeneration....the faster you get it back the faster you can spend it again thus increasing your dps...and well i don't know about you but i often end up using dot tap/lifetaps as a form of dps as much as i do to heal myself at which point regen becomes *nearly* useless and flowing thought is king. altho i may have a drastically different viewpoint than most posters, so just ignore me! (+ i'm drunk and rambling!)

[Schaeffer]

Keystone, that's why I said it was a matter of opinion. The lifetap line of spells has a great MR mod on it so it's good to use on MoB's with high resists. However Vexing Mordina and Touch of Night are mana intensive, I'd rather cast a Pyro and a Splurt to do close to the same damage with less mana. I only have to life tap every 4 or 5 MoBs that way (unless ofcourse I'm forced to use Shadowbond) so like I said, it all would depend on your style of play. Doomfir would agree with you, and he's got more levels and AA's under his belt than I do, don't sell yourself short :D

[Jebasiz]

Another thing to consider is what slot types you have available for later. You probably can't put regen 5 anywhere else other then the ldon robe, but..that's also a nice spot for burning affliction. You can put regen 3 on your wrist.... and ft 2 augments elsewhere too(if I'm not mistaken). I guess what I'm saying is..look down the road before you make a purchase you regret, IF there's away for you to get all your focuses, and get the regen 5 augment or FT2 augment then I'd say flip a coin, they're about equal...if there isn't I'd get neither and look into burning affliction or another important focus you can't put anywhere else. That said, I don't know what your goal is through ldon, if your buying multiple pieces of gear in BB, it probably won't matter where you put your augments....

schaeffer..I think your going to find that after a certain point (where keystone is now) it doesn't really matter all that much how you use your mana as long as your maximizing your dps. Due to the nature of resists, if your 225-250+ dps sustained(without pet, and this shouldn't be hard) Using a little extra mana to get there isn't a problem. Also, if your not around there on mobs that aren't immune to several lines of dots, you NEED to get there. Burn the mana...if that's what it take to kill "mob of the momemt_1258000" that's what it takes. Noone's going to critique you on your inefficiency as long as mobs keep dying, most of the time you'll have more then enough mana left too.

[drewz21]

Well, I've posted before about this. I went with a lot of HP regen on my necro. Yeah, I have the FT1 earring but that's a nice piece by itself.

As you can see from my Magelo I've got quite a bit of HP regen. Even now at 49 with Lich form my life ticks down very slowly. Our HP to Mana regen beats any other mind candy hands down. Having said that, once the cap of 35HP regen per tick is reached I would go FT items. Never hurts to get mana back faster.


Good hunting.
Jos.

[Xavier]

Well lets put this in a different perspective. Well say high lvl 65 necro in high end guild using Seduction of saryn.

63 hp's per tick for 50 mana

Random uber necro_01 with FT14

Thats 64 mana per tick at 63 hp's so one more than hp regen.

Lich is static. It will always have the same amount of mana for the spell itself before FT is applied. Therefore having more hp regen would allow you to lich for longer. But with FT you have to lich for less. And then you can fill the rest of your items up with regen. Allowing you to cost less hp's while liching. With FT14 being 1 tick above the normal lich hp drop adding more regen after FT combines a greater combination. Id rather gain more mana faster than I would over a longer period of time.

Thus if I gained the 64 mana per tick = greater applications in shorter time than liching for longer periods of time. During raids you need mana faster in a shorter period of time. Not more mana over a longer period of time. To complete this thought keep in mind regen items come a dime a dozen. FT items are harder to gain. Being that Regen is easier to buy from ldon that it is to gain good FT with focus effects that are augmentable with regen items.

This is just my personal opinion. To me hp converstion or not. I would rather have 20m in for example 6 ticks than I would to gain 20m in 10-12 ticks. The only thing that speeds up lich is FT. Otherwise you are just saving your hp's for longer lich times. Id rather loose 2 ticks

63 hp's a piece for 2 ticks = 126 hp's for 100 mana
or
63 hp's a piece for 2 ticks with ft 14 = 126 hp's for 128 mana

128 compaired to 100 doesnt seem like a lot. But at 25 mana in 4 ticks thats another 100 mana. Which could mean an extra cast of something like snare for example.

After i reach my ft max Ill consider regen unless I can gain them both.

[Draz]

Once again thank you all for your insight...

Unless I am missing somthing...

Regen 5 only fits in chest item...

FT2 augs can be on any depending on camp...

Also BA4 can be aug'd to all items not just chest.

I will put summoners Boon on as well.....

for FT...

Earring FT1 with BA4 aug
FT4 shawl...

So aug other items I could easily get to FT14-15 and still have regen 5 on chest.

Just thinking out line.

[Xavier]

Well that depends. If the regen 5 item is an ldon item Im unsure. I dont do adventures. So therefore my comments are mostly based off dropable gear between old world and new pop content.

[Jebasiz]

I will put summoners Boon on as well.....

A friend of mine put that on the decaying bone idol, and he just switches it out when he summons his pets...I thought that was a good idea, it saves a range augment slot for something else.

[deathtognomes]

Originally posted by drewz21@Feb 5 2004, 06:28 PM
Well, I've posted before about this. I went with a lot of HP regen on my necro. Yeah, I have the FT1 earring but that's a nice piece by itself.

As you can see from my Magelo I've got quite a bit of HP regen. Even now at 49 with Lich form my life ticks down very slowly. Our HP to Mana regen beats any other mind candy hands down. Having said that, once the cap of 35HP regen per tick is reached I would go FT items. Never hurts to get mana back faster.


Good hunting.
Jos.
I don't get it, you claim you are after regen with your necro, yet he is a level 51 dark elf?

You have 11 worn regen atm.

That is the SAME difference in standing regen between a naked iksar at 65 and a naked dark elf at 65....

So, basically, all the effort you put into gettin that regen gear could have been saved by simply hitting the "iksar" button on the character creation screen.

Of course, having that same gear, and being iksar would have double the effect as well.

I HAD a level 54 dark elf necro, which I made to wear the cool dark elf chain caster cultural....

The coolness of that armor wore off rather fast, leaving me wishing I had iksar regen...

My necro was sacrificed by an iksar necro from 54 to 44, then later deleted as my iksar necro got to the level to summon corpses (which is the ONLY thing I used my dark elf one for). So, yea, I can speak from experiance when I say that if you truely value regen, its worth re-rolling your character for.

End-game, Iksar can regen 56HP/Tick with AA and max worn regen, this is STANDING regen, btw.

So, if you are iksar, its possible for you to be in SoS 100% of the time, anywhere, without EVER tapping a mob, and GAIN health at a slow rate. Any other race, REGARDLESS or gear, will always lose health.

[kilalotofnomes]

at low lvls regen>ft

at high lvls ft>regen

you can tap back any lost life
but you cant tap back mana

fast mana = more dps = fast kills = more xp

you can argue either way if you really want to.
I would say get BOTH, but i would start with FT before Regen.

[Skova]

I dont want to start any flame wars here but i prefer regen to FT. My reasons for this is as an iksar our regen gets really nice at high levels. With AA and regen items I lose very little hps when arch liching. Yes i can tap back for health and i do with every mob pulled by using a tap over time (bod or vexing). However i prefer to turn around and cast shadowbond on pet or tank. Vexing gives me 122 hps per tick at 60 and shadowbond gives 125 to pet or tank. this isnt an all powerful heal but greatly helps the healers conserve mana or helps my "crappy" EoT pet live long enough to kill a mob. This is how i tank with pet. The regen comes into play by helping me keep my own hps from dropping rapidly. this way i only have to DDtap for health every 4-6 mobs instead of every 1-2.

[drewz21]

Well, deathtognomes, I actually play a dark elf for a reason. If you've ever played D&D or any other type RPG game you may have heard the phrase "min/maxing the game." This refers to making the absolute best of your character while just staying inside the rules.

I made my necro a dark elf because I had a character in mind when I made him. I have no desire to play an Iksar. It has nothing to do with the xp penalty or the KOS almost everywhere kind of thing. Playing the race just didn't appeal to me.

For me it's not getting the MOST out of the game it's getting the most FUN out of the game. I've enjoyed striving for my gear to make the most of my necro. It's part of the fun to me.

I never once said the dark elf was the ONLY necro to play or that it was stupid to play an Iksar or that even a dark elf was better than any other race. I thinik one should play what one wants and have FUN with it. Having played this game for almost 4 years that is what keeps me playing. If I ever stop having fun I'll stop playing. Simple as that.

I merely post here to try and help other players and also read what other players have to say. It's a mutual learning process.

If you post was not meant as an attack to me all the better but if it was I'm not sure why.

Good hunting.
Jos.

P.S. I never said why I play a dark elf. My son played a dark elf necro as the only EQ character he ever played. It's a tribute to my son. :)

[Fizzleplink]

/agree

With PoK & Luclin available now, faction just wasn't an issue for me. I went with a gnome because I envisioned somebody who tinkered with the stuff of life, rather than a hardcore servant of evil.

[Draz]

And I went with Dark Elf because I like the race and play a DE Necro in my D&D game :)

(I didn't even know any penalties existed LOL.... I just went straight for Necro DE)

I decided to go with regen 5 ...I'll still reach FT 15 so it will all work out in the end.


Thnk you all for your input....

[Skova]

In case you didnt know the regen (aura of health) is stackable like FT. Up to the max of 15. There are some items that stack on top of this, such as the Zlandicar's Heart.

[Schaeffer]

Regen stacks higher than FT, it's something ridiculous like 30...

[drewz21]

Regen is 35. Flowing Thought is 15. ATK is 250.

Good hunting.
Jos.