Remove CHeal from game

[Xislaben]

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...ssage.id=225098 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=225098)

Some of the same lovely rogs and other asshats in the pervious nerf necro thread are chiming in here.

[Maeryn]

Does the OP like anything about how the game is currently played? And if not, why is he still playing it?

[Jebasiz]

Some people just like to complain. Him and dalnoth are the only 2 that can post an opinion(which are by definition never "wrong", simply not agreed is ok) and actually be "wrong". Stupidity of that calibre should be illegal!

[corvardus]

Yeah I had much to say on that subject. :rolleyes:

[Lylith]

Originally posted by Maeryn@May 5 2006, 05:55 PM
Does the OP like anything about how the game is currently played? And if not, why is he still playing it?
Excellent point.

[UsulDaNeriak]

CH is like twitch a spell which will die.
if we just would let it alone.....

who the fuck cares about such old shit like CH or twitch????

Usul

PS: ok, ok,....
today my guild did raid rampaging monolith in DoN with 2-3 groups, MT died and 1 of 2 clers. so the last cler did CH the pally and we 3 necs chaintwitched this last cler without loosing even a pixel of mana, until the raid was rezzed and ready to fight again. so it has its uses, no doubt.
btw, if rampaging monolith would not be fully resistant to disease, we would have built a mw chain for the pally and the last cler could go to restroom)
just as a sidenote: my guild was pretty impressed, not about this nec twitch power, but that me of all necs said: /rs necs twitch the last cler! i do hate twitch.
we could have done it 24x7 easily.

but thats a damn old mob and a very special situation.
for the real fights nowadays, CH and twitch are playing no role.
correct me ubers , if i am wrong here.

[Xislaben]

Rampaging monolith is an encounter with annoying adds that if not picked up fast will eat healers.

I promise you don't need twitch for this encoutner though, if other toons are playing competently.

[UsulDaNeriak]

sure, but if shit happens and they do eat your healers aside from 1 then its time to twitch until everybody is rezzed and the show starts again.

Usul

[Jebasiz]

Twitching to aid in recovering..especially mid-fight is completely valid..still. We're not the only ones assuming secondary or terciary roles once shit has hit the proverbial fan.

Pending raid composition and what you're doing, the loss of a single cleric or bard could make twitching a requirement. IE, the bard can't play resists for the raid, so healers aren't chaining cheal anymore..they're chaining lights and then group chealing...huge mana costs.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@May 22 2006, 06:00 PM
Twitching to aid in recovering..especially mid-fight is completely valid..still. We're not the only ones assuming secondary or terciary roles once shit has hit the proverbial fan.

Pending raid composition and what you're doing, the loss of a single cleric or bard could make twitching a requirement. IE, the bard can't play resists for the raid, so healers aren't chaining cheal anymore..they're chaining lights and then group chealing...huge mana costs.
I reject your supposition entirely.

Our DPS on a mob is much more valuable, especially in declining # of toon raids (instances etc), than twitching a clr.

I believe you only extend the fight by not DPSing rather than by twitching, which further exacerbates the problem you are attempting to alleviate, and as such it's a dumb ass thing to do during an encounter.

The exception to this is in a CH chain, where it's mathematically sound (as much as I hate to admit it) to artificially extend the duration of the encoutner beyond what would be needed to compensate for the loss of your DPS, assuming no mana dots.

I don't know what the rest of you use, but we CH chain almost nothing. Our necros rarely (and I never) twitch during encounters, and so far we're in CoA up to OMM. It most certainly is not needed, and unless it's a ch chain, I firmly believe it's actually counter productive.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xislaben@May 22 2006, 12:16 PM
The exception to this is in a CH chain, where it's mathematically sound (as much as I hate to admit it) to artificially extend the duration of the encoutner beyond what would be needed to compensate for the loss of your DPS, assuming no mana dots.
Guild Mirage proved it conclusively, the Celestial Healing "chain" is just not a viable strategy.

[Schaeffer]

HA HA HA HA

"NEED MORE CLERIC!"

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Xislaben@May 22 2006, 02:16 PM
I reject your supposition entirely.

Our DPS on a mob is much more valuable, especially in declining # of toon raids (instances etc), than twitching a clr.
You are right, partially.


However, you also neglect to realize that in current content, it's not just a DPS race on many raid events. Welcome to scripting. Some events you don't want to outright blow the mob out. Various mechanics are health triggered, if there's a fuckup you can hold a mob's health to prevent another part of the script from triggering and recover- not ideal, but it's better than starting over and wasting even more time. Some zones have been on again / off again with wrackable mobs, and many guilds utilize Mind Wrack/Flay as much as possible.

I can go on further with examples, but work calls. In any case, when the boss tells me to, I do it w/o question, this doesn't happen very often as he knows the benefit of necro dps. Raid events are not black and white anymore, scripting has changed that.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Xelgadis+May 22 2006, 07:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xelgadis @ May 22 2006, 07:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Xislaben@May 22 2006, 02:16 PM
I reject your supposition entirely.

Our DPS on a mob is much more valuable, especially in declining # of toon raids (instances etc), than twitching a clr.
You are right, partially.


However, you also neglect to realize that in current content, it's not just a DPS race on many raid events. Welcome to scripting. Some events you don't want to outright blow the mob out. Various mechanics are health triggered, if there's a fuckup you can hold a mob's health to prevent another part of the script from triggering and recover- not ideal, but it's better than starting over and wasting even more time. Some zones have been on again / off again with wrackable mobs, and many guilds utilize Mind Wrack/Flay as much as possible.

I can go on further with examples, but work calls. In any case, when the boss tells me to, I do it w/o question, this doesn't happen very often as he knows the benefit of necro dps. Raid events are not black and white anymore, scripting has changed that. [/b][/quote]
Yeah it's true there's scripting in some events that make it much less about zerging heh, for instance a necro could be assigned a 'special' duty on vule, which would involve little to no DPS. Some DoDh raids (many DoD and PoR content I've not done) are just not terribly fun if you want to just dps.

On the other hand I find events like Jelvan actually easier to zerg than to balance, or risk losing tanks in west due to stuns at the wrong time or in the south due to mana dots not being resisted and longer durations due to split dps.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Xislaben+May 22 2006, 02:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ May 22 2006, 02:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jebasiz@May 22 2006, 06:00 PM
Twitching to aid in recovering..especially mid-fight is completely valid..still.* We're not the only ones assuming secondary or terciary roles once shit has hit the proverbial fan.

Pending raid composition and what you're doing, the loss of a single cleric or bard could make twitching a requirement.* IE, the bard can't play resists for the raid, so healers aren't chaining cheal anymore..they're chaining lights and then group chealing...huge mana costs.
I reject your supposition entirely.

Our DPS on a mob is much more valuable, especially in declining # of toon raids (instances etc), than twitching a clr.

I believe you only extend the fight by not DPSing rather than by twitching, which further exacerbates the problem you are attempting to alleviate, and as such it's a dumb ass thing to do during an encounter.

The exception to this is in a CH chain, where it's mathematically sound (as much as I hate to admit it) to artificially extend the duration of the encoutner beyond what would be needed to compensate for the loss of your DPS, assuming no mana dots.

I don't know what the rest of you use, but we CH chain almost nothing. Our necros rarely (and I never) twitch during encounters, and so far we're in CoA up to OMM. It most certainly is not needed, and unless it's a ch chain, I firmly believe it's actually counter productive. [/b][/quote]
Yes cuz spawning MORE adds when half your healers are dead from the last set is a wonderfull idea!

You're right, on Valik the Cruel..Which is a fight about as complicated ad Derakator the Vindicator..and seriously, if you're fucking up either one you don't need to be raiding at all. Just about anything in PoR worth mentioning has adds spawning at % life of the main mob. If you have clerics dead...it'd be a good idea to stop dotting and start twitching rezzed, oom clerics(so they have mana enough to keep themselves from getting owned by ae's).

Heh anguish is easy and always was. As an "end game" it's lacking as much if not more then any single era in EQ..so great point of reference there.

Invictvs on bertox got to anguish, and in one night killed Kth, Ture, Jelvan and Hanvar..all first time kills. That's not exactly content I'd base my opinion on what's viable on raids and what isn't. Hell, I went on an aug run with CD the other day. 20 people..Ture died, "just because he thinks he's harder then the aug droppers".

Raid DoB perhaps sendaii..Draygun(seems to run clerics oom a little) and don't have 12 clerics on each, and let me know what you think in 6 months or so.l

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@May 22 2006, 07:22 PM
HA HA HA HA

"NEED MORE CLERIC!"
Too Much Sinzan (http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/mirage/agent_sinzan_2.html)

[Mallakith]

Holy shit that sinzan clips older than my nephew!

old skool gfx ftw lol