eq vet thread on nerfing FD and fade

[Xislaben]

yay! (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=231991)

[Schaeffer]

Ok we need to alert Potus so he can start a "nerf clerics and enchanters thread"

WTF!!!!!!!

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@May 25 2006, 03:31 PM
Ok we need to alert Potus so he can start a "nerf clerics and enchanters thread"

WTF!!!!!!!
I think the main poster is a rng, I could very well be wrong here though.

[Schaeffer]

Ranger Snare lasts too long, nerf Ranger snare, nerf Endless Quiver, Nerf Ranger Innate Camo... WTF that one always pissed me off 4 real.

[Aldmare]

when did rangers become 'pullers'? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/KineticRcR/misc%20junk/violin.gif

[Schaeffer]

I used to pull as a ranger in DL 5 years ago...

[Jebasiz]

That thread will go nowhere..All he did was portray himself as a whiney little bitch. Save Potus for the good rants imo.

[Nelran]

Originally posted by Aldmare@May 25 2006, 11:15 AM
when did rangers become 'pullers'? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/KineticRcR/misc%20junk/violin.gif
They didn't. They tag the mob and split them for us quickly by dying with the mobs spread out a little better.

[Xislaben]

Hey look, one of our newest (and most favorite) Community Correspondent's called for a nerf to bards!

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...scending&page=4 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=231991&view=by_date_ascending&page=4)

Fading memories needs to be changed, being able to dump all agro with 0 "cool-down time *" and risk then turn you invis is game breaking. (Monks have a 4 second recycle time on FD and it has a chance to fail, they are suppose to be the ideal pullers - it also takes them 2 minutes to lose agro on any wanderer's they happend to agro.) Why do bards not deserve even more hinderance when pulling? They do so much more than monks. Both are very powerful classes but bards have 5 times the versatility monks do and they pull Superior to monks. It's not right, fading memories was a mistake and it needs to be corrected.

Dalnoth-Vaz
Community Correspondent

Yeah and I can "Fade Memories" once every 36 minutes after spending 30something aa's. As a matter of fact I have played a bard, its way easier to pull open zones on a bard then a monk. Bards should have no claim to that, Example: Qvic - A bard dominates pulling there. Bards have no claim to anything exclusive as far as im concerned, you can Slow/Debuff/Charm//Mez/Run faster than any class in the game/dot/haste/DS/Resists/Overhaste/Nuke Focus/ae slow/snare, please cry me the hinderances of having a piece of everyone's pie. I don't care how "useless" Your snare is because a monks snare is just as flakey as yours since I know thats going to be the first retort out of you. Yes monks can single pull mobs anywhere, but you can do it faster and use everyone elses abilties. Thats not right.
EDIT: Don't forget you have the best mana regen spell in the game now that Clairvoyance is 2 less per tick than your AREA EFFECT bard song.

Dalnoth-Vaz
Community Correspondent

Then he later says he really doesn't want to nerf bards. What was that before, thought inspiring socratic debate?

Actually, I don't want to see FM nerfed, I want to see FD Work even HALF as good as it. Monks sure may be able to pull but guess what? It takes up to twice as long as you can bring a pull to camp, when your exping and everyone has their exp doublers up who wants to have the inferior pulling class there? Monks deserve something better to pull with, and if they got an endurance based fade to drop agro so they dont have to wait 2 minutes. You know how up in arms the bard community would be? I can just imagine now. Lets discuss how much trouble you poor bards have splitting mobs I mean really, Its so hard - tag the add with HoS run around in a circle mez it then run away fade and pull theres your split. Bards are far superior in pulling than monks and they have no right to be because they can do EVERYTHING. Lets see how many other classes jobs a bard can do.
Mez/Mana - ench
Damageshield - Mage
Haste - Ench/sham
Slow - Sham/bst/Ench
Debuff - Shm/mag/ench
Runspeed - druid
Pulling - monk
Snare - Ranger
-----
Now lets look at what a monk can do
DPS
Snare (if they bought the AA that costs like 9)
Pull
Know the term you get a piece of everyone's pie? Here is a perfect example of it. You can do all these jobs, you shouldn't be the best at any of them.
So your Escape button which rogues can use once every 36 minutes is limited by mana which you can regen as you pull because you dont fade 14 times in a row. I'll light a candle at the church.

I don't see anywhere in the rules of being a Correspondent that im not allowed to express my opinion on a matter, I said it before I don't want to Nerf bards, although you sure are getting Defensive. Other classes should recieve fade like abilities based on endurance, monks one of them. The inability to completely wipe agro at the tap of a button hurts their pulling times in groups. And yeah Jyve, im pretty sure that wasn't a "nerf bards" call! Although you certainly read it to be, Monks need to be more viable pullers in groups and right now, bards dominate. Not calling for a nerf, just telling you my experiences. Monks pull slower than bards.
As for your skewed list of abilities, when did Wizards/beasts/sk's recieve resist debuffs? Oh yeah they didn't! If you think people are gonna use items to slow for a group your living on cloud 9 and trying to underplay your utility yet again. I can see the point on haste pots but then again you provide an additional 20-30% haste via overhaste. I was just listing the other classes jobs you can do. Quit trying to say im calling for nerf's as an escape route.

[Schaeffer]

OMG, can we fucking lynch that asshole?!?

What kind of class correspondent cries for nerfs of every other class? Why can't he just lobby to make his own better. Isn't he a rogue? Why the hell is he crying on behalf of monks all the sudden?

Some people are too stupid to be alive...

[Jebasiz]

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Dalnoth wrote:

I don't see anywhere in the rules of being a Correspondent that im not allowed to express my opinion on a matter, I said it before I don't want to Nerf bards, although you sure are getting Defensive. Other classes should recieve fade like abilities based on endurance, monks one of them. The inability to completely wipe agro at the tap of a button hurts their pulling times in groups. And yeah Jyve, im pretty sure that wasn't a "nerf bards" call! Although you certainly read it to be, Monks need to be more viable pullers in groups and right now, bards dominate. Not calling for a nerf, just telling you my experiences. Monks pull slower than bards.





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Sounds like something necros should get! Just base our on mana kthks. Man Dalnoth, thanks! We're gonna be pals!




lol sometimes I can't help myself.

[Xislaben]

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...scending&page=6 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=231991&view=by_date_ascending&page=6)

I wouldn't be surprised if your groups are better designed around DPS than mine - I believe the highest I've gotten on Arch Magus Vangl was 1800, a number easily reached by Rangers and Wizards, and is being approached by monks and warriors in my guild.

Ezedriel

Rogs, Rngs, Wiz, Mnk, and War getting close to 1800 DPS?!?!?!

The Rogs I can see, Wiz too, but Rng/Mnk/War?

We need more spells like Dread Pyre, with the same kind of damage but lower mana cost apparently!

[Schaeffer]

Warriors need to be nerfed

[Jebasiz]

Ya we can pick 1 or 2 examples that are ideal situations for them and use them against them! err wait..that's why they tried to do to us, and it didn't work.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@May 30 2006, 01:36 PM
Ya we can pick 1 or 2 examples that are ideal situations for them and use them against them! err wait..that's why they tried to do to us, and it didn't work.
Yet...


We shall see what happens when the new expansion comes out/

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Schaeffer+May 30 2006, 05:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ May 30 2006, 05:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jebasiz@May 30 2006, 01:36 PM
Ya we can pick 1 or 2 examples that are ideal situations for them and use them against them! err wait..that's why they tried to do to us, and it didn't work.
Yet...

We shall see what happens when the new expansion comes out/ [/b][/quote]
We got shit for dps out of por aside from improved foci for all archetypes that only the end-game raider are seeing, though some of the same was in DoDh, so really we got nothing...

[Xebitikz]

Yes, PoR was a pretty useless expansion for us.

Dalnoth seems like a waste of breath.

[Jebasiz]

PoR was pretty useless all around. Except for the druid group heal.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Xislaben@May 30 2006, 12:14 PM
War getting close to 1800 DPS?!?!?!

The Rogs I can see, Wiz too, but ~snip~ War?
Clearly the parsed warrior was kicking more. :rolleyes: With a good 2 hander, and the appropriate offensive discipline, warriors can put out respectable DPS, but nothing even remotely close to 1800 heh.

-----------------------

Problem is that there's too much subjective evaluation of the classes going on, and not enough objective evaluation. Fucktards like Dalnoth are clearly in the subjective boat, the qualification of his points show that plain as day.

Parses I don't put a whole lot of weight in, in general. Most people see 1 parse and think that's the norm for class X, which is hardly the case. Parses can show trends, that is one of the few points of Dalnoth, or Dommin... whoever the fuck said it, that I agree with. But an individual parse means nothing; resists, random number generator, length of time the mob stays alive, etc. all can be (and usually are) different each time you fight a given mob.

When someone posts a parse (which people should fucking know better than to post them, by now, because of idiots like Dalnoth), I don't really care about what information it contains. If I want to see a parse, I want to see several parses of the same mob, in addition to applicable foci and clickies used, then a trend can be seen from it.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@May 30 2006, 06:50 PM
PoR was pretty useless all around. Except for the druid group heal.
Shammy got a nice group heal Ghost of Renewal and Nectar of Pain, a nice DPS dot.
Encs get a buff that can mez any mob that hits them Ward of Bedazzlement.
Mages get a nice little nuke Spear of Ro.
Druids get the group heal which is nice, and they also get Barkspur, a huge DS, 210 points (though 8 max hits).
SK's got Theft of Agony, which is suposed to be a pretty good hate generator.
Pally's get Ward of Tunare, a ATK/AC/STR buff that can proc heals.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Xislaben@May 30 2006, 02:17 PM
SK's got Theft of Agony, which is suposed to be a pretty good hate generator.
Essentially an upgrade to Theft of Pain. Small upgrade in the AC return to the recourse, but the main difference is the fact it generates 1200 points of hate (which happens to be the same hate generated initially from the Darkness line, be it Clinging or Festering, it's all the same before you start figuring in dot damage). The fact it has an AC recourse makes it that much better, since in the Rules of Tanking: AC > HP.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@May 30 2006, 12:23 PM
since in the Rules of Tanking: AC > HP.
I think my sarcasm monitor just exploded.

Perhaps it was the subtle use of caps.

[taecken]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@May 30 2006, 11:36 AM
Ya we can pick 1 or 2 examples that are ideal situations for them and use them against them! err wait..that's why they tried to do to us, and it didn't work.
That's exactly what Warriors did to Monks, and it did work.

That's why I play a Necro now.

Crybaby warriors (like Furor) didn't want monks tanking 1% of raid mobs, so they destroyed the class, October, 2002. It took them 3.5 years to undo the nerf.

[UsulDaNeriak]

could we please change the board rules accordingly, that "calling for a nerf" regarding whatever class, is bannable offense?

especialy for class correspondents!

thank you very much in advance.

my short comment on vet board.

Usul

PS: and yes, according to my playstyle i finished por in 4 weeks :(

[Jebasiz]

The more I play in PoR..the more I realize I simply don't really enjoy it much. There are fun fights...suchan is one. Daosheen is kinda cool. Erm..Every single mini(page dropper) in TOB sucks. SO yeah, I'm not done like my little blue friend usul is..but every single trash clearing in razorthorne and tob makes me wish I was.

[nnigma]

nice to see we are all getting along. Though its nice to see a Class correspondant getting all ralled up,just not in a good way.
I havent read that message board w/ranger calling for our snare nerf..Kindof odd calling for our snare nerf,it last too long? pretty pathetic reason. Then I want:

Rangers: endless quiver nerfed,if I gotta run out of mana,rangers gotta run out of arrows...
Mages: I want their pets nerfed, think they too powerfull the way they are.

Monks: bah, they want to be tanks, not supposed to be tanks,so any mob that cons Lite blue or higher,they automatically get AC/agi/midigation reduction.That'll teach'em monks.

Zerkers: want their dps nerfed, they dps more than some rogues/monks. Besides who plays them anyways...sob's

warriors/pallies/sks: want better taunt, fug'em, if monks FD gets to fail and they get hammered by mob,so should u. IF taunt fails it auto-decreases AC,hps,so u can get ur ass spanked for a short duration,and try again...

Clerics: /shrug boring ass class,need to get another job.

bards: jack of all trades and they bitching, screw them. Nerf their bard songs,if they miss-tune they run at newbie who is overweight speed...

druids: I see no stinkin druids, have no qualms with druids really. dont see them enough to really care. btw, nerf their little bears,why do they even have that spell.

shamens: again,no qualms with shamens, actually feel sorry for them,fuggin BL

BeastLords: nerf them all together, just overpower shamens/underpowered monks, what the hell was sony thinking..

rogues: complaining about their dps. well, coming from a class that likes to give it to ya in the ass..Fine upgrade their dps from behind,but give mobs a chance to ripotese from their backend. When they do, they can perform a 'stink move' on those ass-lovin rogues... Orc Pawn performs a stink move on rogue
an ORC Pawn farts in ur general direction. rogue feels dizzy,and passes out.

wizzies: well, guess their ports got nerfed with all the books and magnus's.

chanters: /shrug nerf their pets, for no other reason,dont need another pet floppin around.


Necros: biggest fuggin whiners this side of Kansas. Nerf everything, dots are too powerfull, snares last too long, regen mana too fast, pets are to powerfull. what gives...and they even get FD, freakin SK/monk wanna be's.

/hugs all necros...just funin'

*love other classes too, ya I do play a zerker/monk/cleric/shammie sometimes..

*just gets old listening to other classes wanting to nerf this classs and that class. Makes it worse coming from a class correspondant.
shame, sony listens to those instead of our ideas to make it funner. I dont care who class can do what or what they have,though it does sux to some degree.
I think weve asked for little stuff to help our class/playing experience, least for me that would be upgrade our pet models and oow rune drops. The pet models are easy and major upgrade to our enjoyment,not sure sony/class correspondant understands this. JEEZE they just upgraded Nek forest for the second time.dont think too much to ask for new models for our pets..

Oky, my pokin fun at everyone is done..sorry druids/chanters i really dont have complaints or can make fun of ya guys...