Can I vent?

[Gaid_of_Luclin]

OMG 37 spell combines and one stinking skill up, research 177. :ph34r:

/sigh

Garid

[GnekroeGnomicon]

That is a fair number for that skill level... but it gets worse believe me :P

[Astroshak]

Been averaging oh, 2-3 skillups per 40 combines of the various parchment solutions. Thats with a 61 necro with 260 int, hehe.

If you can farm up the Saltpeter and the Crystallized Sulfur, research is actually fairly cheap to work on until you hit 243.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Astroshak@Jun 6 2006, 06:17 PM
If you can farm up the Saltpeter and the Crystallized Sulfur, research is actually fairly cheap to work on until you hit 243.
Not to mention that, by the time you get there, you'll be so fricken sick of doing 39047304302472374230842307402348320472304723904723 0482304723043 subcombines... you're probably about 75% likely to say "fuck this" and move on to a different tradeskill.

Let me put it another way, Misty Thicket Picnic (http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=1139&menustr=035000000000) is about half as annoying, subcombine-wise (mainly because the subcombines yield more than 1 item).

[Zkull]

As Gnekroe said, it gets worse. Skill is now 260, and it take an average of 70 combines for a skill up. For me, that is mainly 65 lvl combines (parchements 4k each, or 64 lvl combine parchments 900p each). I worked out that I spent nearly 250k pp for 1 skill point. I did exactly what Xelgadis said "f**k this" and moved on.

Zkull
70 Nec Bertox
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=396831

[taecken]

i brought up this up on teh eq forums, was greeted with "don't whine blah blah blah".

I can take 100pp and get to 200 in brewing, baking, pottery, fishing in an hour or 2.

I can take 15kpp and get 3 skill ups (193-196) on a bajaillion combines in research.

It's NOT fair.

The higher the cost of the item, the higher the chance you should have to skill up - and i'm not talking about sulfur (10pp on Saryn) or saltpeter (100pp LMAO I'll nevery pay that you dumbasses) either, it's the bars of gold, velium, gems, etc...

Who is going to spend time doing a tradeskill where the components cost more than what the final item sells for?

[Felicite]

Compare it instead to Tailoring, or Tinkering.

Hours of farming for a few skill ups.

And that's before 200. Before 150 even.

Selka took less about 3 months to go from zero to over 260 in Research.

She vendor dove 2-3 hours a day, we farmed a few hours now and then (saltpeter), had GMoTDs asking for sulfur and parchment drops (in return for free spells), and she ran 18-20 hours a day in /buyer mode for parchments and pages and solutions and stuff.

Most nights we got parchments hunting.. but they were dwarfed by the flood from buyer.

I had a dedicated Bazaar mule to sell spells (18-20 hours a day) and she was making 25-200k a day in spell sales. Much was poured back into supplies, but this was her first EQ character to break 100k (and 500k) in the bank. Towards the end she did crazy things like buy us all our Omens Ancients (at 80-100k a pop) with profits. Thanks love.

Some people are going to say there is no such market on their server.. and maybe the market is saturated, now, my experience ended January 31st. So.. why stress? Buy spells from the people that are willing to devote months of effort to skill up.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Felicite@Jun 7 2006, 10:10 PM
Compare it instead to Tailoring, or Tinkering.

Hours of farming for a few skill ups.

And that's before 200. Before 150 even.

Selka took less about 3 months to go from zero to over 260 in Research.
Tailoring to 252 is easy, and tinkering to 215 is easy, 250ish is not bad either if you farm you rown yttrium.

Spell research to 200 sucks :P

Over that and I'm not sure why people do it it sucks so bad.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xislaben+Jun 7 2006, 04:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ Jun 7 2006, 04:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Felicite@Jun 7 2006, 10:10 PM
Compare it instead to Tailoring, or Tinkering.

Hours of farming for a few skill ups.

And that's before 200. Before 150 even.

Selka took less about 3 months to go from zero to over 260 in Research.
Tailoring to 252 is easy, and tinkering to 215 is easy, 250ish is not bad either if you farm you rown yttrium.

Spell research to 200 sucks :P

Over that and I'm not sure why people do it it sucks so bad. [/b][/quote]
Tinkering is easy.. but you are not talking a few hours with vendor materials. I spent entire play nights farming geerlok compontents.

[Aryse Andenter]

I tend to agree with Felicite... if you want to complain about a tradeskill, take up tailoring or tinkering - both have quite a lot more options now than they used to, but really, research is a breeze in comparison - both in obtaining the ingredients, cost of ingredients, and number of combines to skill-up, and aboslutely on value of the end product. I very rarely had a run as bad as 37 tried without a skill in research, but non-DoN cultural tailoring and tinkering saw that frequently... and much worse - 37 is a bad run in research though imo.

[Xislaben]

Tinking:
Geerlock hammer - 215 simplicity itself, baz acrylia.
More geerlocks and collapsibles with easy drops on vendors in gunthak and in baz.
Molten Metal Bowcams - 282 forage/baz (granted, baz been dry lately)
DoN Masters - 290, 304 (farm: small brick of yttrium ore)

Tailoring:
DoN expert cultural - 220ish (armor not augs, maybe easier for gnomes w/crystalline silk than yours)
Epicthieck's Power Belt - 252 (just plat)
Tae Ew maybe 295ish, not there yet, probably sucks.

Spell Research:
DoD, parchment solutions - 144, 174, 203, 216, 243
lots and lots and lots and lots of subcombines
Post 243 it sucks worse (I'm betting, as you need runic parch)

In my experience:
Tinkering - 252
Tailoring - 244
Research - 198

Research, while more or less vendorable to 243, has the shittiest skillup/combine ratio, and takes the longest.

If any of you have found some secret research combine that it's better, I'd love to know :)

[Brahman]

let me know when you hit 282 in tinkering.

research to the current max is fucking a joke compart to tinkering to even 284. its WAY easier to make a profit from too. I have an entire guild working on 4a boxes, funneling all the drops to me to skill up either my skill or my trophey. I have pharmed yitrim and PoInno for days and weeks. I have lots of friends that hit up PoInno while lfg for me. All of this has gotten me TWO skill ups. and oddly enough that was back to back.

I droped 400k and 40 hours a week work into tinkering from 50 - 282 and did it in about 3 months. i did that starting when DoD was in beta. since i hit 282, TONS more effort put into it and i've gotten 2 more skill ups. yeah cry me a river i WISH i got a skill up in 37 combines...

Even better i've lost prolly anouther 500k (thankfully not all mine...) in wonderful fails on trying 4a boxes.

[taecken]

Tailoring, Research - Hard

Smithing, Tinkering - Medium

Jewelery, Fletching - Easy, but gets expensive

Make Poison, Alchemy - Easy with new potions

Brewing, Baking, Pottery - Crazy Easy

There are not enough new players coming into the game to support the market.

There are not enough new ingredients coming into the game to support the market.

There is very little money to be make (if any) with less than 250 skill.

There are too many people sell items at a loss just for the sake of selling it, or beating your price.

[Aryse Andenter]

Anyone have a link to the post that confirmed the difficulty level of research (note: not actual difficulty, but difficulty as defined by the coding). http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=22246 has the other skills but I know research was confirmed somewhere.

[Brahman]

I maintain that from a practical standpoint that tinkering is by far the hardest.

even if it takes less combines / skill up. its many many many times harder to get each combine.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Jun 9 2006, 03:22 AM
Anyone have a link to the post that confirmed the difficulty level of research (note: not actual difficulty, but difficulty as defined by the coding). http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=22246 has the other skills but I know research was confirmed somewhere.
Haha im on page 2 crying that the graphs presented on the TS skillup curve is hinky!

I remmeber some dev somewhere giving out the numbers, but I specifically recall that they lest at least 1 of the tradeskills off. It may have been tinkering opr research as it's not a 'common' skill. Sorry, idk where that is :(

EDIT:

Not a dev but from devs, note research missing, but tailoring/tinkinering at 2:
http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showpost.p...071&postcount=3 (http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showpost.php?p=156071&postcount=3)

Tanker filled a lot of holes where we lacked data. Here's a consolidated list of tradeskill difficulty numbers:

4 = Alchemy (Tanker)
3 = Baking (Suani)
3 = Brewing (Suani)
4 = Fletching (Suani) - effective stat not reduced by 15
4 = Jewelcraft (Suani)
2 = Poison Making (Tanker) - effective stat not reduced by 15
4 = Pottery (Suani)
2 = Smithing (Suani) - effective stat not reduced by 15
2 = Tailoring (Suani)
2 = Tinkering (Tanker)

I put a lot of faith in Suani's numbers because he set smithing at 2 when a lot of people wanted to call it as high as 4. Smithing actually has the highest skillup rate per combine.

DO NOT call smithing the "easiest" or expect big guys with massive hammers to chat with you. I wouldn't even DREAM of using that term until leather padding and tempers are as easy to get as Hynid meat.

[Brahman]

interesting.

fact remains however that tinkering is the tradeskill with the least easily pharmable high end combines. :(

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Xislaben@Jun 8 2006, 04:10 AM

Research, while more or less vendorable to 243, has the shittiest skillup/combine ratio, and takes the longest.

If Maevenn has it right answering you in this thread http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...essage.id=13452 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Trade&message.id=13452), which is what I remember too, then research actually has the best skillup/combine ratio... which doesn't make it easy. But if you think back to how few words you really needed to get to 200 way back when, it really wasn't very many - it was just an annoying amount of different ones.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Jun 12 2006, 04:02 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Jun 12 2006, 04:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Xislaben@Jun 8 2006, 04:10 AM

Research, while more or less vendorable to 243, has the shittiest skillup/combine ratio, and takes the longest.

If Maevenn has it right answering you in this thread http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...essage.id=13452 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Trade&message.id=13452), which is what I remember too, then research actually has the best skillup/combine ratio... which doesn't make it easy. But if you think back to how few words you really needed to get to 200 way back when, it really wasn't very many - it was just an annoying amount of different ones. [/b][/quote]
WTB dev answer, but, parchment soluitons are at least 6 combines per for the easy one, and more for the harder ones. Molten Metal Bow Cam = 5? Master DoN cultural = 2 to 5? Those are the two 'best' tinkering skillup paths, due to drop availability and ease of farming iirc.

I mean, unless one of you knwo some secret place where parchments drop like candy off mobs.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Xislaben@Jun 12 2006, 06:51 AM
I mean, unless one of you knwo some secret place where parchments drop like candy off mobs.
PoK.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

PoK. That was the biggest hit to my motivation to continue in research... I haven't done a skillup run since, though I have hundreds and hundreds of parchments laying around now.

[Brahman]

WTB dev answer, but, parchment soluitons are at least 6 combines per for the easy one, and more for the harder ones. Molten Metal Bow Cam = 5? Master DoN cultural = 2 to 5? Those are the two 'best' tinkering skillup paths, due to drop availability and ease of farming iirc.

molten metal bow cams are not THAT bad. it is 5 combines, using 3 different tradeskills. But the grease is VERY VERY slow to pharm. a 12 hour a day forage bot will get you ~25 - 35 combines worth of grease in a really good day. Vendor diving for the metal produces high yields but at 150ish plat each. 1 brick = 1 combine so again not that bad compared to some other things.

its post 282 thats a $%(#$&%(&@ 3 bricks of yttrium per combine and that stuff doesn't drop in ANY zone that is actually used much anymore. sells in the bazaar for 500 - 1200 a brick and so 1500 - 3600 per combine or hours and hours and hours of pharming for very few combines. Also you can't really sell the results for jack shit. Something that is not an issue for research.

Or you can make crab crackers and woks. i'm paying ~400 a combine for those but only getting about 40 - 60 combines of these per month. That is also with me jumping into PoInno myself and pharming for a few hours several times a week. I have also done about 4 AAAA boxes worth of combines (made 2 for the guild), and made 2 (tried 3) holepokers in the last 6 weeks. I havn't had a skill up in those 6 weeks. so i'm guessing around 100 combines without a skill up.

I worked tinkering HARD and had full commitment from several people to help me get the required drops (all classes that could easily pharm the drops) and went 50 - 282 in under 3 months. (hell at one point there were 4 rangers/druids in PoInno foraging for me) Started on that about 2 months before PoR came out. Since then I have been buying all the combines i can, and in the last month have gotten full guild support for making 4A boxes. I am now at 284. $*(#$% u SOE.

[Xislaben]

I'm sure the relative difficulty post 282 on tink/tailor/research may change based on available options than what it is to say 250.

Yttrium is decently farmable in The Deep iirc, that's where I'll be going though I develop the motivation to TS again.

[Brahman]

oh its deffinitally better than PoInno...

but since you need 3 for one combine "better" is very relative, i've gone 30 min without a drop and gotten 4 in 5 min... Then if it takes me 4 times as long to get to the deep then to PoInno and i only have a lil while to do a bit of killing its not always worthwhile to head there.
I'm sure the relative difficulty post 282 on tink/tailor/research may change based on available options than what it is to say 250.

and i would have to agree since research to 300 is impossible :P but research also has the benifit of AAs...

I wish i was doing research :(

[Astroshak]

Ok, I don't know how bad its going to be from now on, but ...

My necro hit 243 research making the runic parchment solutions ... then used the 8 Fine Parchments, 10 Vellum Parchments, 9 Fine Vellum Parchments, and 17 of the 18 Runic Parchments making spells. Hit 250 research.

The hard part, for me at this point, is going to be in finding a reason to take it higher. Its already more than high enough to use the Mechanoinstruction Holepoker.