Hi Sauruman

[Aryse Andenter]

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?

Hi, you know I'm talking about the robes.

[Aegrusnecrox]

yeah what the fuck man.

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Jun 13 2006, 06:51 PM
WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?

Hi, you know I'm talking about the robes.
It's his sekrit plan to save us all(most of us) 2-3 weeks worth of dkp. We should thank him!

[sauruman]

I threw a hissy fit over this ninja nerf over the past few days... After bugging devs and Kytherea all day today, I got this answer. I think its shit, and I diplomatically told them as much. To nerf two year old content, when the item is hardly overpowering in the way that many other items for many other classes are is just past lame. Our spells remain unfixed, yet they find the time to ninja nerf necros. We may have an answer, but I won't stop pestering them on this thats for damn sure.





Week of June 12, 2006

Apokalyps wrote:

Why was the necromancer oow tier 1 and teir 2 clickies changed in the June 13 patch? The clicky used to last 60 secs, now it lasts 18 and 36 secs respectively. To say the community is up in arms over this 2 year old content nerf would be a severe understatement at best.

In this form the clicky is mitigated severely and many folks who over the course of years have paid top notch amount of DKP for a misrepresented item. EQ players are entitled to continuity of content and knowing the items they loot aren't subject to revision two years and many expansions after the fact.
Message Edited by Apokalyps on 06-14-2006 03:23 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Rashere) The change was intentional to bring the necro clickes to some semblance of balance with the other OOW clickies. It's still far more powerful than the other ones, but not quite to the degree it was before. It's not changing back.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by sauruman@Jun 15 2006, 02:20 AM
I threw a hissy fit over this ninja nerf over the past few days... After bugging devs and Kytherea all day today, I got this answer. I think its shit, and I diplomatically told them as much. To nerf two year old content, when the item is hardly overpowering in the way that many other items for many other classes are is just past lame. Our spells remain unfixed, yet they find the time to ninja nerf necros. We may have an answer, but I won't stop pestering them on this thats for damn sure.

Week of June 12, 2006

Apokalyps wrote:

Why was the necromancer oow tier 1 and teir 2 clickies changed in the June 13 patch? The clicky used to last 60 secs, now it lasts 18 and 36 secs respectively. To say the community is up in arms over this 2 year old content nerf would be a severe understatement at best.

In this form the clicky is mitigated severely and many folks who over the course of years have paid top notch amount of DKP for a misrepresented item. EQ players are entitled to continuity of content and knowing the items they loot aren't subject to revision two years and many expansions after the fact.
Message Edited by Apokalyps on 06-14-2006 03:23 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Rashere) The change was intentional to bring the necro clickes to some semblance of balance with the other OOW clickies. It's still far more powerful than the other ones, but not quite to the degree it was before. It's not changing back.



They just happened to stumbled upon this after 2 years, or somebody was asking them to nerf us?

I think 'far more powerful' is a bit disingenuous. The Wizy haste on their tier 2 bp allows them to get a few more spells (perhaps pending true stacking information) like maybe Ether Flame off in the same time frame, which can do far more additional damage than ours, which also requires keeping tons of dots stacked for its duration. I'd have to see some parses from other DPS classes to know their relative values, but I think this is a bullshit statement from Rash.

[Aegrusnecrox]

Bah

-Egg

[Meph]

Why not change Tacvi dagger to clicky sedulus subversion, ToB robe to Rune of Death, Vish ear to clicky sacrifice and Ossein to clicky fear to while we're at it?

Oh yea and splurt shoulders are like rotaly unbalanced .... click needs to be changed to Trucidation.

[Maeryn]

Originally posted by Meph@Jun 15 2006, 01:30 AM
Why not change Tacvi dagger to clicky sedulus subversion, ToB robe to Rune of Death, Vish ear to clicky sacrifice and Ossein to clicky fear to while we're at it?

Oh yea and splurt shoulders are like rotaly unbalanced .... click needs to be changed to Trucidation.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GIVING THEM IDEAS FOR??

I swear if I hear one word about them laying a finger on my ToB bp I'm coming after you Mephisto. Sleep with one eye open!

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I swear if I hear one word about them laying a finger on my ToB bp I'm coming after you Mephisto. Sleep with one eye open!Hell hath no fury like that of Maeryn's BP being nerfed...

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Maeryn+Jun 15 2006, 01:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maeryn @ Jun 15 2006, 01:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Meph@Jun 15 2006, 01:30 AM
Why not change Tacvi dagger to clicky sedulus subversion, ToB robe to Rune of Death, Vish ear to clicky sacrifice and Ossein to clicky fear to while we're at it?

Oh yea and splurt shoulders are like rotaly unbalanced .... click needs to be changed to Trucidation.
WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GIVING THEM IDEAS FOR??

I swear if I hear one word about them laying a finger on my ToB bp I'm coming after you Mephisto. Sleep with one eye open! [/b][/quote]
If they read class boards, surely they are only lurkers, besides I'm sure that whoever brought the tier 2 to the dev's attentions have probably already sent lot of other 'suggestions' as well.

[Silayn Test]

Originally posted by sauruman@Jun 15 2006, 02:20 AM
I threw a hissy fit over this ninja nerf over the past few days... After bugging devs and Kytherea all day today, I got this answer. I think its shit, and I diplomatically told them as much. To nerf two year old content, when the item is hardly overpowering in the way that many other items for many other classes are is just past lame. Our spells remain unfixed, yet they find the time to ninja nerf necros. We may have an answer, but I won't stop pestering them on this thats for damn sure.





Week of June 12, 2006

Apokalyps wrote:

Why was the necromancer oow tier 1 and teir 2 clickies changed in the June 13 patch? The clicky used to last 60 secs, now it lasts 18 and 36 secs respectively. To say the community is up in arms over this 2 year old content nerf would be a severe understatement at best.

In this form the clicky is mitigated severely and many folks who over the course of years have paid top notch amount of DKP for a misrepresented item. EQ players are entitled to continuity of content and knowing the items they loot aren't subject to revision two years and many expansions after the fact.
Message Edited by Apokalyps on 06-14-2006 03:23 PM



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Rashere) The change was intentional to bring the necro clickes to some semblance of balance with the other OOW clickies. It's still far more powerful than the other ones, but not quite to the degree it was before. It's not changing back.


Sauraman your an idiot

You got an answer from rashere. I wish i had a cookie to give you for your effort. But im going to take that cookie away because RASHERE DOESNT COVER ITEMS.

Now then...

Sauraman your an idiot.

I talked to Zajeer, you know the dev that does items. Wheres my cookie.

Sauraman your an idiot.

Zajeer told me when i asked her the question; i got the correct answer. She said "Sauraman your an idiot". The original design of the effect was a 40% crit dot chance on the first 4 dots that did damage in a series of ticks for the lenght of the durration. If you have 6 dots on the mob, it will only effect the first 4, not the last 2 even though they all do dmg roughly the same time in the tick. This never worked. It effected all the dots for the durration of the effect.

The item was broken and since there is not a way of making a buff effect the first 4 crit % in dot stacking the item needed to be changed.

The item was not balanced in its broken state. Changing it to the first 4 dots cast is near impossible at this time. So they decreased the durration of the buff. Were lucky it was just cut to 3 ticks from 5 for the first robe. They wanted 12 seconds not 18. But now it is more inline with the other items.

If this were to effect the first 4 dots, the first dot cast a good majority of the time is snare do you really want to waste one the 4 dots that crit on snare?

Look at it this way. If they didnt find out it wasnt working as intended or that the actuall effect was broken they could have done horrible things trying to fix it. Please understand this was a fix. Not a nerf. And its alot easier for them to decrease the durration then come up with a system to effect any number of dots in a stack. (can you immagine encounters that every other nuke/dot has random modifers to them)

Since you like to bother and throw a hissy fit find out what the reason for Changed Unknown207 from to -1 is and how it effects dots. So we can get a better understanding of this buff. Can you do that or is that to hard? Or do you not know where to look for that kind of information?

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Silayn Test@Jun 29 2006, 05:58 AM


Look at it this way. If they didnt find out it wasnt working as intended or that the actuall effect was broken they could have done horrible things trying to fix it. Please understand this was a fix. Not a nerf. And its alot easier for them to decrease the durration then come up with a system to effect any number of dots in a stack. (can you immagine encounters that every other nuke/dot has random modifers to them)

You know, as pleased as I am that you actually spoke with someone who isn't line feeding answers, I have to say... to me there is a time limit on when something is a fix. Since this was changed so long after the item went into the game, it is a nerf, no matter the original intentions.

It is a nerf in at least two senses... both in how long it took them to decide to 'fix' it, and also in the timing of it. When it comes on the heels of strong nerf calls in the forums, it is a nerf - it is treated as a victory among some of the nerf callers. Rogues do think they got us nerfed with this (only God, I wish they thought that was enough!).

[Silayn Test]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Jun 29 2006, 11:11 AM
You know, as pleased as I am that you actually spoke with someone who isn't line feeding answers, I have to say... to me there is a time limit on when something is a fix. Since this was changed so long after the item went into the game, it is a nerf, no matter the original intentions.

Sauruman your an idiot.

Ok that felt good.

I agree with you there does need to be some sort of time limit but look at rampage. Hell its been in the game since befor i remember and they are saying it was broken or it wasnt working in some events or on some mobs. Now that its working Qvic goats got aoe rampage instead of single target ramapage? Some events rampage wasnt working as intended?

Dots are alot more complicated then rampage... It makes you wonder.

[sauruman]

Maybe your unaware of the fact that EQ is a little complicated. If you can't handle these bugs, you might want to get off *test* server. Had you told me about these bugs while they were an issue, we could have done something. But you were silent, so you don't reserve the right to say "I told you so" when you didn't say a damn thing.

As to the robe nerf... Of course I'm pissed about it. But do I look like a dev? Why the hell are you calling me an idiot for something I can't control? My role as a correspondent is to tell them what the community feels. I told them we are pissed off, corrected their math, told them it was piss poor too late, and it was a specialized necro only nerf. They didn't care and it remains in effect. Maybe you should take your frustrations out on an SOE employee, b/c I'm just the messenger. Grow up.

[Silayn Test]

Actually it wasnt a bug, for all the devs knew it was working as intended. It wasnt untill they changed stuff they realized it didnt work.

Maybe if you are worried about my ability to find bugs. You should hop your ass over to test so we can get a viable population to find shit. If Test cant field a 54 person raid isnt that a prime example that nothing is ever going to get fucking done. I know this, you seem to just get that clue now... Lets wait and see what the devs do.

Sauruman your an idiot.

[Jebasiz]

Silayn is about the only necro that really communicates with us. He's also almost always right. Arguing with him is foolish.

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by sauruman@Jun 30 2006, 04:58 PM
My role as a correspondent is to tell them what the community feels.
I just needed to point this out. It very often feels like you are out on your own agenda rather than communicating our issues. Whether it is your fault or not, a lot of people feel that you bring attention to us in a way we don't want, and completely ignore the things we do. And I certainly feel that even when you are trying to do the right thing you are going about it in a way that is all wrong.

Now, I don't know that you went and put your foot in your mouth on this particular issue, but I've seen you do it enough times not to rebuke Silayn.