Necro Research

[Kurron]

I went to train in research at GM in PoK and it wouldnt let me go beyond 20 :angry: , anyone have any good tips for raising research ? cus its been awhile since I did this and I'm kinda rusty

[Xislaben]

Make Vial of Pure Water (http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=20928) to 54

Make Oil of Vitrol (http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=20932&menustr=080105900000), Aqua Regia (http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=20929&menustr=080105900000), Aqua Fortis (http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_item.php?item=20933&menustr=080105900000) to 102, and save those

Make Parchment Solutions (http://www.eqtraders.com/search/reverse_recipe_search.php?item=20929&min=0&sb=trivial&hits=5&menustr=035000000000) 144 - 243

SR sucks ass.

[Duke Roger]

I've simply hoarded any Words I've ever seen on all of my characters, then sorted them and did all the spell combines I could (using the lists from EQTraders) until I was out of combines. With 9 bank slots, each with 10 slot bags full of Words, I can do fairly well. The other day I did a combine session and emptied out a few bags' worth. Got 11 skillups to get me to...140-something. I was aiming to make my own copy of Dead Men Floating, but apparently I used my one Words of Agony on some other combine. :angry:

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Duke Roger@Jun 21 2006, 01:49 PM
I was aiming to make my own copy of Dead Men Floating, but apparently I used my one Words of Agony on some other combine. :angry:
Damn... that sucks :(

I had two copies of agony, made one, bam one to mem, tried for #2 Duplicate Lore items are not allowed MOTHER PUSBUCKET!!!! I think the crafted version is no longer lore, so you won't run into this problem anymore, but man was I pissed :rolleyes:

[Whispers Quietly]

Not sure what LvL you are, by Lvl five you'll have 20 training points to burn. To answer proper, your Lvl has to be known.
I "bought and paid for" my research skill to 195 at LvL 55 using training points. Now at LvL 56 I get the message; "You are so much better than i'll Ever be, Can you please train Me. Or something to that effect. Maybe not.
however though, I'm not sure what LvL I need to be to buy the other points, in mean time i'll just keep saving them until I can hit that 200.

On another note; Those LORE spells have also killed me. spent 20k on the words, to get the message; Your combine was successful, lore item, you cannot have two lore items. And the words get eaten....

[Schaeffer]

I do not believe you acn train in research beyond 20 anymore. They nerfed it right around when the new research formula's came out.

[Aryse Andenter]

Indeed. At the same time they removed the ability to buy more than 20 points from a trainer, they also removed the level restriction to the skill, as a nice trade-off.

I did research prior to DoDH research, and I did it as Duke Roger did - simply kept every words I got from drops and could vendor farm, and then did big sessions of skill-ups. Worked pretty well, but of course now there are the even easier (mostly vendor bought!) recipes Xislaben mentioned.

[Kurron]

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Jun 21 2006, 07:18 PM
Not sure what LvL you are, by Lvl five you'll have 20 training points to burn. To answer proper, your Lvl has to be known....
.
I'm lvl 16 (started over on FV) , I have a 65 Necro on what was formerly Torv. but all the people I knew are no longer playing so I felt like starting over on a new server and since then ( 2 years) they nerfed the training at the GM , so i have been slightly clueless. thx all and Xis your post was most helpful :D

[Maeryn]

Originally posted by Kurron+Jun 22 2006, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Kurron @ Jun 22 2006, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Whispers Quietly@Jun 21 2006, 07:18 PM
Not sure what LvL you are, by Lvl five you'll have 20 training points to burn. To answer proper, your Lvl has to be known....
.
I'm lvl 16 (started over on FV) , I have a 65 Necro on what was formerly Torv. but all the people I knew are no longer playing so I felt like starting over on a new server and since then ( 2 years) they nerfed the training at the GM , so i have been slightly clueless. thx all and Xis your post was most helpful :D [/b][/quote]
Yay Kurron, I'm on FV too =) I've been slowly but surely working on my research level as well. I'm on more or less every night 5-12 if you need anything and want to send me a tell (in-game name is Maeryn).

[taecken]

I have given up on research.

I spent 14,000pp and some 2-3 hours on 500 subcombines, 100 attempts, and got 4 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

I just spent 10,000pp and some 2-3 hours on nearly 500 subcombines, 80 attempts, and got 2 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

Here's the kicker: My skill is just now 200. No, I'm not talking about trying to skill up from 290-292.

Sony maintains that research is "easier" to get a skill up in than any other tradeskill. To be blunt, either they're lying or they have no idea what's going on in the game.

I have tinkering and smithing at the 230 level, brewing, baking, and pottery at the 200 level. Not one of them took 80 combines for 2 skill ups.

Baking, brewing and pottery all took less than 200pp to get to 200, all from NPC bought ingredients.

My advice: don't waste your time or money until Sony comes clean and admits they were lying (again).

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by taecken@Jun 22 2006, 01:51 PM
I have given up on research.

I spent 14,000pp and some 2-3 hours on 500 subcombines, 100 attempts, and got 4 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

I just spent 10,000pp and some 2-3 hours on nearly 500 subcombines, 80 attempts, and got 2 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

Here's the kicker: My skill is just now 200. No, I'm not talking about trying to skill up from 290-292.

Sony maintains that research is "easier" to get a skill up in than any other tradeskill. To be blunt, either they're lying or they have no idea what's going on in the game.

I have tinkering and smithing at the 230 level, brewing, baking, and pottery at the 200 level. Not one of them took 80 combines for 2 skill ups.

Baking, brewing and pottery all took less than 200pp to get to 200, all from NPC bought ingredients.

My advice: don't waste your time or money until Sony comes clean and admits they were lying (again).

Item was trivial? You mean within 20 points of your skill and not in fact trivial (meaning you cannot skillup on it anymore)?

This is what i've been trying to tell people, but they don't listen to gnomes :(

180 / 6 = 1 per 30, and below 200 that blows.

[Whispers Quietly]

Wow, With that nerf I'm SoL on last 5 points then. Always wanted to be a 200 point researcher.

I realize there are combines I can do. I just don't see the point. With my extra training points I'm more SoL. Nothing I want to spend them on.....

[taecken]

Originally posted by Xislaben+Jun 22 2006, 10:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ Jun 22 2006, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-taecken@Jun 22 2006, 01:51 PM
I have given up on research.

I spent 14,000pp and some 2-3 hours on 500 subcombines, 100 attempts, and got 4 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

I just spent 10,000pp and some 2-3 hours on nearly 500 subcombines, 80 attempts, and got 2 skill ups. 290 Intelligence. Trophy, geerlock. item was trivial.

Here's the kicker: My skill is just now 200. No, I'm not talking about trying to skill up from 290-292.

Sony maintains that research is "easier" to get a skill up in than any other tradeskill. To be blunt, either they're lying or they have no idea what's going on in the game.

I have tinkering and smithing at the 230 level, brewing, baking, and pottery at the 200 level. Not one of them took 80 combines for 2 skill ups.

Baking, brewing and pottery all took less than 200pp to get to 200, all from NPC bought ingredients.

My advice: don't waste your time or money until Sony comes clean and admits they were lying (again).

Item was trivial? You mean within 20 points of your skill and not in fact trivial (meaning you cannot skillup on it anymore)?

This is what i've been trying to tell people, but they don't listen to gnomes :(

180 / 6 = 1 per 30, and below 200 that blows. [/b][/quote]
Aye, the item was trival because of my modified skill with my geerlok and trophy. Removed, the item was within 20 points of my skill (actually, within 10 points).

The Devs STILL maintain that it takes less combines to get research to 200, then brewing, baking, pottery, fletching, smithing, tailoring..

lmao

[Drazzminius]

Originally posted by taecken@Jun 23 2006, 02:33 PM
Aye, the item was trival because of my modified skill with my geerlok and trophy. Removed, the item was within 20 points of my skill (actually, within 10 points).
I'm 99.9% sure that you don't get bonuses from both the geerlok and trophy. Only the highest of the two.

That said, and assuming you had the Freshman Trophy while trying to skill-up to 200, you weren't getting the 4% Mod from the Trophy because the Geerlok is at 5%.

Skill of 200 @ 5% = 210 modified skill. Sound about like what you were dealing with?

[taecken]

Been away for a while...but to answer your question...

yes, my modified skill (210) made the item (Vellum Parchment Solution) trival (203).

I didn't know that about the trophy...I just assumed you did get both bonuses, since the trophy was equippable in so many slots. That kinda sucks.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by taecken@Jun 23 2006, 10:33 PM

Aye, the item was trival because of my modified skill with my geerlok and trophy. Removed, the item was within 20 points of my skill (actually, within 10 points).

The Devs STILL maintain that it takes less combines to get research to 200, then brewing, baking, pottery, fletching, smithing, tailoring..

lmao
Ah I understand, that makes perfect sense now heh.

I'd say it takes more combines, costs way more, and requires drops that are harder to get in bulk (unless you pay alot in baz for DoDh route combines). To 200 spell research has been quite annoying. In fact it's my only skill under 200, not including fishing...

Yeah the Dev's are wrong about that imho (where did they say this by the way?), at least it significantly differs from my experience, but gl with the arguement with em :)

[Aryse Andenter]

Its not just the devs that maintain it takes less combines to get to 200 in research than in the other skills. I do too.

Unless there is a different amount of combines required for skill-ups based on whether you are using old (word-based) combines or new DoDH (store bought) combines you guys are on crack if you think research takes a lot of combines for a skill-up compared to anything else. Seriously. In my experience, it was not even vaguely close. (And, you can't count subcombines in this, since they don't affect skill ups - remeber, it is your choice to do the route with a lot of subcombines.)

So, either I had really good luck (which I doubt since I was getting average from everyone else I knew who did research at the same time), they changed something (which I doubt, since my enchanter has been researching fairly recently and is achieving similar skill-up ratios to what I had), you had really bad luck (entirely possible, 1/25 and 1/40 ratios are certainly a small sample and easily accountable for with bad luck). At around the 200 level a ratio of about 1/10 should be the norm - which is nothing to complain about - and the ratio below 200 is about 1/5 for a lot of the way.

There will always be a few people who have really bad luck in a skill. But research was hands down my easiest to raise viewed over the whole course, with nothing else even close - there are people who get this side of it too :D .

And, as much pp as you are pumping into research, this is recoverable. Most other skills that pp is lost - I will quite possibly NEVER recover the costs of raising my tailoring or smithing, even given DoN augs and gear. Hell, you don't necessarily have to wait to be making spells to be recovering costs. I've been advertising on Maelin for a week now looking to buy various parchment solutions at above cost to save myself the bother of making them. And while spell prices have dropped significantly, there's still a reasonable profit margin to be had.

And, just to confirm, tradeskill modifiers do not stack. Highest one always applies. (Although wouldn't it have been nice to be able to wear the research robe, trophy and geerlok :lol: )

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Jun 27 2006, 04:49 PM
Its not just the devs that maintain it takes less combines to get to 200 in research than in the other skills. I do too.

Unless there is a different amount of combines required for skill-ups based on whether you are using old (word-based) combines or new DoDH (store bought) combines you guys are on crack if you think research takes a lot of combines for a skill-up compared to anything else. Seriously. In my experience, it was not even vaguely close. (And, you can't count subcombines in this, since they don't affect skill ups - remeber, it is your choice to do the route with a lot of subcombines.)
Where did devs say this again?

It's not so much a choice when the no-subcombine combines can't be done without 8 hours a day vendor diving and buying of 2k-plat-per-word once every 5 days when it shows up in baz is taken into account. :P

And yes, I certainly do count subcombines, they take time to do and add to the general annoyingness of tradeskilling :P

Smithing and tailoring (in that order) were so easy (to 200, with DoN combines) I don't understand why people bitched and moaned about them as the 'hardest' tradeskills out there. Saying that I admit I complained about tailoring before I found DoN cultural, when I was doing loy ribbons and research swatches (which was dumb, since the words and other drops are just too rare).

Now, if you want to talk about pure skillup chance by tradeskill (ie regardless of drop availability, cost, bank space issues, myriad of subcombines etc) with regard to tradeskill difficulty, then it's a slightly different conversation.

Maybe the disconnect is people who did the skilling a while ago versus those of us who are doing them more recently. Smithing was simple to 200 since velious, and with DoN cultural (may differ by race) tailoring is prety easy to 200 AND you may get a 5% or 10% skillup bonus on it (may be master and gm only).

Recoverability: spells long reached their saturation point, now its a matter of new players and alts that level up wanting them, the market has tamed .

[Xislaben]

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...essage.id=13452 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Trade&message.id=13452)

I have just consistently said "It has the lowest difficulty of all tradeskills" without giving a number.

You can interpret from that multiple tradeskills are known to have a 2 difficulty, therefor if "easiest" it has to be lower than 2.

heheheheheheheehehehehhe

Please, please Ngreth, i ask of you:

make a caster, any caster, your choice!

Go in the game, roll a new guy, or dust off an old one.

Level up spell research to 300 without any "dev" help. Farm all the stuff. Buy and sell in the bazaar. Make all the half-billion subcombines by hand. Sell every spell under level 60 for a huge loss. Beg, borrow for words, runes, pages.

Then take 50 pp, go to Thurg, and get pottery to 200 in 1 hour. Or brewing. Or baking. Or fletching.

Please don't base the difficulty on a random number generator. It's like saying "this slot machine pays out more often than this one". You still lose in the end.That is why I specifically phrased it the way I did (I play a wizard BTW...)

the actual chance to gain a skill-up when doing a combine is easiest for spell research.

I said absolutely NOTHING about how easy it is to get spell research components in order to gain that chance to get a skill-up.

[Schaeffer]

I will forgive him for that misleading remark, he did increase the drop rates on salt peter significantly...