Lets remove Sauruman [Archive]

Tryal Anderror

07-23-2006, 02:38 AM

If we have to just attack him until he quits then, that seems like a valid method to me.

People have been trying to work with him for Months, but most people lost any hope of that after what he did in the PoR Beta to nerf us.

You tell him over and over, and not only will he not listen to new suggestions, but continues to insist he's done nothing wrong.

If he won't even admit and accept that the things he's said and done before were incorrect, then how is he going to change for the better?

The Problem is that he's trying, and he's terrible.

I Can Try and Juggle Flaming Torches in a FireWorks Factory, but the more I Try, the worse that's going to turn out.

We're coming up soon to the Serpent's Spine release, Sauruman CANNOT be allowed to give any input into our spells or we're going to be absolutely fucked beyond belief.

We need him to be totally quiet and let real people talk who know what they're saying, or else he's going to mess us up in a totally irrepairable way.

If we Cannot remove him, Can everyone please encourage him to stay out of any discussions regarding our Class, especially in the area of Spells.

EDIT: Also, to clarify, Sauruman Caused the Nerfs not by asking for them, but simply by pointing out information that made the devs aware of how powerful something was. In Sauruman's stupid attempt to convince other necros to like a spell, he posted a parse that showed it to be too strong and had it taken away, literally 15 minutes after. There seems to be a large misunderstanding about how he's hurting us. It's by creating awareness of things we don't want them to be aware of.

FCseven

07-23-2006, 03:51 AM

Aye,wasent it an aura that added 5% to all DOTs in range?That would have been nice.

najiwench

07-23-2006, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Tryal Anderror@Jul 23 2006, 02:38 AM
If we have to just attack him until he quits then, that seems like a valid method to me.

People have been trying to work with him for Months, but most people lost any hope of that after what he did in the PoR Beta to nerf us.

You tell him over and over, and not only will he not listen to new suggestions, but continues to insist he's done nothing wrong.

If he won't even admit and accept that the things he's said and done before were incorrect, then how is he going to change for the better?

The Problem is that he's trying, and he's terrible.

I Can Try and Juggle Flaming Torches in a FireWorks Factory, but the more I Try, the worse that's going to turn out.

We're coming up soon to the Serpent's Spine release, Sauruman CANNOT be allowed to give any input into our spells or we're going to be absolutely fucked beyond belief.

We need him to be totally quiet and let real people talk who know what they're saying, or else he's going to mess us up in a totally irrepairable way.

If we Cannot remove him, Can everyone please encourage him to stay out of any discussions regarding our Class, especially in the area of Spells.

EDIT: Also, to clarify, Sauruman Caused the Nerfs not by asking for them, but simply by pointing out information that made the devs aware of how powerful something was. In Sauruman's stupid attempt to convince other necros to like a spell, he posted a parse that showed it to be too strong and had it taken away, literally 15 minutes after. There seems to be a large misunderstanding about how he's hurting us. It's by creating awareness of things we don't want them to be aware of.
what kind of evidence do you have that sauruman is responsible for anything?

i've been watching the ordeal going on with the mage class..and pretty much the cc is just the guy who talks that they ignore..

they turned it from a mass of people talking that they ignore to just one person.

i don't know why it would be all that different for the necro class, or any other class.

sony does what it does. sauruman gives them some feedback from the players, but in the end it is sony, he isn't the end all be all of the class, all he is is a messenger boy, and i highly doubt he is telling them that necros need to all be nerfed and they are bowing down, licking his boots, and dying to jump to his whims.

as an aside..i'm glad i don't play eq live any more...this sounds like a mess.

Tryal Anderror

07-23-2006, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by najiwench@Jul 23 2006, 04:45 AM

what kind of evidence do you have that sauruman is responsible for anything?

Well, there's the DNA evidence, plus I had the CSI crew do a computer simulation and...
Common Fucking Sense.

He posted a Parse showing that The New Spell could Drastically increase DPS on Several fights without any downside, and then 15 minutes later the spell was removed, and the Dev who had been discussing extending the duration of the spell decided to totally scrap it.

I don't know how to describe a better cause and effect situation than that.

You are Totally and completely missing what Hangman and everyone else is saying.
NO He is Not ASKING us to be Nerfed, but he is being retarded to a point that it Gets us Nerfed because he's revealing information at bad times or not arguing well.

Example: You're going to buy a car, and you're negotiating with the salesperson... halfway through your wife says 'Wow, that's a good deal, you said you'd pay as much as $9000!'

Sauraman's Voice carries more weight than any single other Necro, and it also carries more Stupid per square inch.

We just need him to Shut Up and not derail stuff other people are doing who know more about the class and play it better.

EDIT: And No, it was a 5 minute buff that Focused all DoT Damage by 40%, He got that removed for us.

Whispers Quietly

07-23-2006, 06:41 AM

Excuse me, How can anyone posting a parse get anything nerfed?

You really do not believe they parse there own ideas every now and again? They are working stiffs like we are, lighten up...
Since Eq is actually a huge game of numbers, Some days are good, some not so good. Some days you come in with a Revolution; Other days you shine the shit.

Boss lays down a timeline, you make it work even if it's half assed, fix it later. Everquest has been nothing but a series of patches since it was conceived. Oh, just like windows and microsoft. Hold that thought 1 sec..... "Hey Joe Blow, Can you tell Bill that windows is Interrupting my dinner hour? Something about Mail.." Ok, I'm back. Incidentally, I was assured Bill will jump right on it....

Get a Clue, AA"S ought to be nerfed, yeah, they'll jump right on that as well......

Edit; I only pointed AA's as an example of that small minded thinking, by the way; 15 minutes has passed...... i'm in the clear.

Sathras

07-23-2006, 06:45 AM

If you can really say that the spell got removed because of Sauruman with a straight face then I don't know what to say at all. You can't honestly believe that SOE does not have the tools to evaluate the classes completely.

A flat out 40% increase in damage is nothing SOE would give any class. And especially not necromancers which are seen as the most damaging caster class atm.

I would rather ask what SOE devs are smoking to even consider such a spell. But at least they did not remove it until it has been live for a few months!

The little I notice of Sauruman is that he seems to be trying to be objective. Which isn't quite the right attitude imho. He should be more demanding on behalf of the necro class. But I won't asking for his removal because of that. After all SOE has the last word.

Schaeffer

07-23-2006, 07:59 AM

OK so a 40% damage focus usually means a 20% increase in DPS. If it stacked with all other focii/worn and casted (bard buffs etc) as well as with the anguish robe clicky that got nerfed soon after, and maxed crit aa's. Yes there would be a significant increae in DPS on a fight where you could go full burn with no resists. The average "joe blow" who doesn't have all the planets aligning for an uber parse, no it's just a nice increase in DPS.

If you think the devs sit around and take every new item they introduce and test and parse it themselves with all the different possible combinations of worn/spells buffs/abilities focii, then you are the one not thinking. Why do you think they invented beta testing? To get other people to report how their stuff works for free.

Hellandra

07-23-2006, 08:15 AM

To say he's directly responsible for any nerfs is ridiculous. To acknowledge the fact that he doesn't really help much is entirely an another story.

Having played damn near every class, and followed their respected CC's, Saur does not necessarilly cause nerfs, but he damn sure doesn't help us either.

The fact that CC's are appointed "so to speak" and will not be removed "so to speak" are true. The hamster master will not remove a figurehead that does not break the rules.

I think we can all agree that the CC is a figurehead. Unfortunately for the necro community, our figure has his head up his arse on most issues.

I'm not an ub0r necro. I'm hardly a mediocre necro statwise. My gear is subpar and my aa's suck, but I AM a necro.. a common one. I know the class and how to play it. I represent one of the many that come to this site for the wisdom of the necros that have superior skills and insights.

All that in mind, I still think that Saur does not represent the class responsibly. It is quite obvious that he will not step down. His delusions prevent this from happening.

I honestly don't know what it will take to address the issues. I think that our best representatives are mute, much the same as the leaders of other classes. They can post valid points till the end of time and achieve nothing with the current mentality of the SoE devs.

What I do know is asking WHY certain things are broken is valid. There is absolutely NO reason why certain abilities are bugged at this point this many years into the game. Especially ones that have been fixed *cough* before and rebroken.

The one thing that I do find amusing about Saur is his ability to draw attention away from his complete inability to address issues that have been on the boards for how long now. There are questions that need to be answered. There are issues that at least NEED aknowledgement. Not necessarily a "the issue is being worked on", but a "the issue has been aknowledged and is being reviewed."

With Saur at the reigns, we can't even accomplish this, since his focus is all over the board. He does not tighten up the top ten list. He does not aggressively poll the necro community on issues. He does not present issues to the devs that are actual issues. He DOES pull ridiculous concepts out of the air. He DOES misrepresent the necro community on issues repeatedly that pretty much every necro says to STFU about. This can not be helped.

There is no way to "remove" a CC. If in fact, we as a necro community asked to have him removed, we would raise more eyebrows. This does not help us.

The best thing we can do is basically tell Saur what to do and what we want. If he steps beyond those demands/requests, then we forward his inability to represent his class to SoE. This may be like driving a nail into a board with our foreheads, but it's our only recourse.

It's quite obvious that no one condones his courses of action, nor do they respect his position. Unfortunately, we have to make due with what we have. I'm frustrated as a non "ub0r" necro with his performance as much as those that are actually high end necros.

I hope we can get our top 10 list pushed in, and maybe get a "question of the week" answered... just once. Unfortunately, I think the devs consider the CC's a joke as much as we do.

We need to stop busting Saur's balls and try to convince him to actually take our issues to the devs. It's OBVIOUS he can't formulate class isssues on his own, so he needs to be spoon fed. If he can't transfer our issues to the higher powers, then we are doomed. There is no way to make him "resign" or get him "fired".

What really annoys me no end is that it isn't a "termed" position. There should be a timeframe limit being a CC. It should be every 6 months or a year tops. I've been reading how completely dismayed this necro community has been with Saur's performance for far too long.

I hope we can come up with a solution, because this is obviously an issue that will not go away until our CC is replaced or he removes his head from his ass. I think the former will happen first, because the latter doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon.

FCseven

07-23-2006, 10:37 AM

There was a vote taken on this very issue here

http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=3539

Should Sauruman quit EQ?
Yes, and breathing while he is at it!
60% [ 9 ]
Yes, and go into exile on Tatooine.
20% [ 3 ]
Yes.
0% [ 0 ]
No, but quit as class correspondent at the very least.
20% [ 3 ]

Total Votes : 15

Jebasiz

07-23-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Jul 23 2006, 01:41 AM
Excuse me, How can anyone posting a parse get anything nerfed?

You really do not believe they parse there own ideas every now and again? They are working stiffs like we are, lighten up...
Since Eq is actually a huge game of numbers, Some days are good, some not so good. Some days you come in with a Revolution; Other days you shine the shit.

Boss lays down a timeline, you make it work even if it's half assed, fix it later. Everquest has been nothing but a series of patches since it was conceived. Oh, just like windows and microsoft. Hold that thought 1 sec..... "Hey Joe Blow, Can you tell Bill that windows is Interrupting my dinner hour? Something about Mail.." Ok, I'm back. Incidentally, I was assured Bill will jump right on it....

Get a Clue, AA"S ought to be nerfed, yeah, they'll jump right on that as well......

Edit; I only pointed AA's as an example of that small minded thinking, by the way; 15 minutes has passed...... i'm in the clear.
It was timing. If the aura was allowed to go live, it may have been nerfed to 20% at worst, but usually once something goes live it stays. That or compensation is given. In this case our compensation was akin to brahman's "bro rape" video. Which personally, I found both insulting and quite gross (in reguards to both).

We have a trap, instead of an aura that'd let me routinely parse in the mid 1400-1500's while casting mindflay every time it refreshed. So I lose 40% of that, and like..I'm pissed off.

I don't think we have the ability to remove him. He doesn't seem ambivalent to stepping down. The best thing we can do as a community is to guide him, and make him "our puppet", so he only talks when a knowledgable necro with some foresight into how devs will take information and process it has thier hand up his ass.

If you can't change a situation, you have to adapt and make that situation work for you. It's time to find another way.

btw, the jalp 3.0 is infinetly better then the beta version I was using. If you're using the old one, it's worth making the switch.

UsulDaNeriak

07-23-2006, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 22 2006, 05:29 PM
We need a new Correspondant as well.
you better STFU, nec. or post something realistic and constructive, please.

1. you are unfair!
2. sauruman tries his very best from his persective
3. sony and Ky gives a piece of shit, what YOU little skelfucker or anybody else of us thinks.

so i like to advise, that we all together, sauruman and the necromancer-community tries their very best for the upcoming eq-expansion.

i can just speak for me. if sauru is willing to listen, i will listen, too.

Usul

Jebasiz

07-23-2006, 02:24 PM

He is receptive. I think his biggest thing is..he just needs to learn to not volunteer any information.

That's about all he needs to do IMO, and that's as easy as "shutting up".

UsulDaNeriak

07-23-2006, 02:36 PM

thanks jeb, "receptive" was the word i was looking for)

Usul

Hangman Gallows

07-23-2006, 04:37 PM

Usul, I am being realistic. You are the stupid fuck who are taking it in the ass and begging for more. If im being represented in a way I dont like I change that representation.

I can try my best to build a nuclear bomb in my basement, it doesnt make it a fucking good idea.

Im sorry i'm telling the trurth, that may seem unfair to a German, but its how it really is. Life is unfair and he might as well learn that now. So should you.

And the whole point is to find someone else who will make SOEgive a shit what we say. We are the customers not SOE. We can give them feedback that they are turning thier product to shit and it needs to be fixed or more of thier paying customers will leave.

Who here asked for Sauruman to speak for them? I sure as fuck did not. I was trying to be polite about this. However, that might change soon.

Silayn Test

07-23-2006, 05:43 PM

Sauruman your an idiot.

Brahman

07-23-2006, 06:27 PM

If you can really say that the spell got removed because of Sauruman with a straight face then I don't know what to say at all. You can't honestly believe that SOE does not have the tools to evaluate the classes completely.

now as working stiffs on a timeline, do you REALLY think they take the time to evaluate everything?

The answer to this question is very important. the answer is NO they do not.

Since they do not, and that work was done FOR THEM... Then the spell was removed...

by george he might get it...

Brahman

07-23-2006, 06:35 PM

hell let me go further in depth here.

programers.

MANY MANY programers sort of fell into the field. Either they never went to college and just built an impressive resume of things they developed, or they got a degree in XYZ random non-technical thing so they could have less homework while in college giving more time to work on wtf ever lil project they wanted to. (even if said project was just getting smashed)

this is VERY common in that field.

Game developers even more so tend to have NO TECHNICAL TRAINING IN GAME DESIGN, OR ANY AT ALL. Its all trial and error the school of hard knocks so to speak.

over the years their random work, that comes up by them saying "oh this would be cool" has been evaluated by 100's of thousands of people. Many actually were math professionals.

Now.

Who do you think is better trained to evaluate this stuff? Joe blow that plays the game, or the game devs. Which btw, just take a look at who they hired for the item guy. His resume looked like CRAP for a game developer. It wasn't his field. He just played a long time, and had some non-professional experience for the most part.

This is who SOE, a multibillion $ company, hired to help develop on their multimillion $ MONTHLY revenue game. So yes, in many cases the players are far more qualified to evaluate what something is going to actually do once it is placed into the game.

Jebasiz

07-23-2006, 07:36 PM

It's not all his fault either guys. I mean FFS, he's an easy enough target but it's not like faggotry like what's happened recently didn't happen throughout the game's history.

They put something out in beta that didn't go live, it happens. They've put things in game (live) that were taken away or changed. ACOM on beta for OoW was like 150 more dmg per tick. That got taken way down as well.

I'm not saying I'm "happy" or that the direction SoE seems to be going is something that I hope continues, but it isn't really all "his" fault. It's too much stupidity(I would use retardetry, but I was asked not too!) to be pinned on one guy imo.

Yes, they like us to parse and post information for them. They can and do have more accurate parsin available to them, however. I don't think it's correct to believe that they don't know how a spell or aura will effect our dps. They may overstate or "low ball" an effect until proven otherwise due to time constraints, but they eventually "catch it" (see our anguish robe as proof).

I'd rather have 6-7 really nice and shiny dots in TSS then an aura presently. I think if we had that aura, new dots would be anemic upgrades at best.

Whoever is in beta just do the community a few nice favors, and report accurate information when asked. Please push for a splurt upgrade. I do like the corrath venom line as well, it'd be nice to see that kept current. A nice new lich. Perhaps a berserker pet in lieu of that pansy little rogue they keep feeding us. Combine that with a monk and warrior pet and I'd be happy in that reguard. 71 warrior, 73 monk, 75 berserker. Perhaps they'll even live through an ae or two..that'd be nice too.

I also wouldn't mind an aura, if they don't like a general dot aura, perhaps one that's specific to solely lifetaps, a 30% increase for a lifetap aura that'd make our heal returns almost sufficient would be nice. We're a versatile class, drawing power from many different aspects of our arsenal. It'd be nice if each arsenal was viable, for the first time in years(please note:I've given up on fear).

UsulDaNeriak

07-23-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 23 2006, 04:37 PM
Usul, I am being realistic.* You are the stupid fuck who are taking it in the ass and begging for more.* If im being represented in a way I dont like I change that representation.

Ky said more than once on sony forums, that she gives a piece of shit for your opinion about class correspondents, as long as they do what they are supposed to do from sonys point of view.

you will change nothing. such simple.
dont teach me realism, please.

so what was your point again?

Usul

Hangman Gallows

07-24-2006, 08:53 AM

Usul I was sure you were German and not French. But the way you roll over and give up sure taught me the truth.

Lets not fight for what we want and just let ourselves be anal raped.

Yup, you are doing excatly what they want you to do so they can make necros some twitching only class.

Sathras

07-24-2006, 10:07 AM

@Brahman and Schaeffer: I never said they would use these tools to preemtivly parse spells or mobs. Just that they do have the tools available to confirm or invalidate rumors they get via feedbacks. ;)

And I doubt that Sauruman has been the only one coming forth with his parses. Though his statement SHOULD bear more weight. And yes I think he barely seems to consider that! Which in itself is bad, agreed. But I don't want him removed just because of that. He just should be going a bit more aggressive about nec issues.

Brahman

07-24-2006, 12:15 PM

Just that they do have the tools available to confirm or invalidate rumors they get via feedbacks.

Yeah and the guy thats suppose to be looking out for us shouldn't be the one providing those "rumors".

And to jeb...

the difference is something going live for 2 years, and finally getting toned down to a form which is still pretty damn nice, and being removed completly because it hadn't made it to live yet. Both are :( but one we still benifit from pretty damn nicely.

Xelgadis

07-24-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Jul 23 2006, 02:59 AM
If it stacked with all other focii/worn and casted (bard buffs etc)

It didn't, and never would have, stacked with bard amp songs. Bard amp songs, and Soul Rune are/were both buffs (ie. highest is what you get). Worn + buff is fine, worn + worn = highest worn % is what you get, buff + buff = highest buff % is what you get. This is no different from what I mentioned in a Chaotic Power discussion a few months ago (that I'm too lazy to look up now).

Schaeffer

07-24-2006, 01:16 PM

Ah see I thought highest Short Buff (songs) stacks with highest Regular Buff (clicky) stacks with Aura stacks with highest Worn.

Sucks that it's not that way, but I guess it doesn't matter really since we didn't get the damn aura anyways.

sauruman

07-24-2006, 09:07 PM

1) The spell was pulled before my parse, it was a way to try and get back the spell. The parse proved it would have been in line with other spells we had, it wasn't unbalanced etc. Finally I appoligized for posting said parse long ago, publically, in this forum. Do a search jackass.

2) If you want to nerf my voice or do something constructive, sign up for beta. Registrations are right around the corner. Do something constructive or keep your mouth shut, your doing nothing to help the necromancer cause which you claim I am hurting.

Brahman

07-24-2006, 10:34 PM

sadly that timeline is gone.

i heard from many people that your parse was posted then it was pulled within the hour.

but i'm not one to always believe everything i hear.

which leaves me with that information and simply tending to think you did post it and it resulted in us getting nerfed (sorta since we never had it...). but not being sure enough to actually plot against you.

so for me at least you are on thin ice...

Tryal Anderror

07-25-2006, 02:12 AM

Absolutely the Spell was scrapped After the parse within the hour after.

The reason Sauruman thinks his parse showed it to be in line is because he's dumb.

Sauraman thinks that since 5 or 6 DoTs were on, and each one did 15-20% of the damage, that a new spell increasing damage 20% was in line.

However, since the spell was a 5 minute buff, took no mana during the fight it was on and took no time to cast during the fight, it meant it was a 20% increase for Free, unlike our other spells.

Also he thinks Pyre of Mori for instance was 20% vs 0%, when it would have been 20% vs the previous Fire Spell.

So while our DoTs usually increase like 25-30% from their Old damage, This one totally raised all DPS 20% from 0%. His parsed showed it was not in fact in line.

Basically He took the information and presented it in a way that the Devs were not thinking of.

In all previous discussion on the topic, the Devs did NOT think this was overpowered for DPS, we were only discussion the spell's DURATION in the thread.

In Fact, The Spell was originally +20% to all Magic only DoTs and they INCREASED it to cover all DoTs.

So Yes, Sauruman's post of the parse totally changed the mind of the Devs and revealed the actual DPS effect which had gone unnoticed and none of the rest of us were talking about.

There is no doubt about this at all.

Aryse Andenter

07-25-2006, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by sauruman@Jul 24 2006, 09:07 PM
1) The spell was pulled before my parse, it was a way to try and get back the spell. The parse proved it would have been in line with other spells we had, it wasn't unbalanced etc. Finally I appoligized for posting said parse long ago, publically, in this forum. Do a search jackass.

2) If you want to nerf my voice or do something constructive, sign up for beta. Registrations are right around the corner. Do something constructive or keep your mouth shut, your doing nothing to help the necromancer cause which you claim I am hurting.
1) LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. When you posted your little hypothetical parse (it wasn't even a real parse guys, it was theoretically how uber the spell could be) it was on a rocky place but not removed yet. I don't want to post my screenshots from the beta boards - but I have them. Stop with your lying bullshit and at least own up to what you did, fucktard. The spell HAD NOT been pulled when you posted.

The complaint I had about Sauruman during the last beta was that he spent all his time convincing necros they wanted what the devs were offering, and none convincing devs to make the changes necros wanted. This parse was exactly that - Sauruman was posting trying to convince necros to accept it exactly as it was when a lot of people were still pushing for improvements on it. He then went and did the same thing with the other spells - accepting the lich when people wanted a higher ratio, and so on. I actually PMed him during the last beta asking him to stop posting, saying his silence was better. (He didn't listen :))

2) So... if I sign up for this beta and push for what I want in spells, are you going to spend all your time trying to convince me to accept the first thing the devs offer like you did last time? And all your time working against any changes I ask for?

I had always thought that the corrsepondent took our concerns to SOE. Sauruman does exactly the opposite. Look at the last few questions he asked - are those really our concerns? Where did they come from? Where are the other things that people are asking? Oh, and while you are asking that... ask if he posted the questions and answers to necrotalk to let us know about these 'concerns of ours' that he has raised and the response. The answer is he didn't.

Hangman Gallows

07-25-2006, 02:17 AM

You suck and you are worthless. Do yourself a favor and just quit and then shoot yourself in the head. I would rather have no voice than what you are doing. Next time you are talking to SOE and you are trying to speak to them, wait till after you swollow and the cock is out of your mouth so they can hear you.

najiwench

07-25-2006, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 25 2006, 02:17 AM
You suck and you are worthless. Do yourself a favor and just quit and then shoot yourself in the head. I would rather have no voice than what you are doing. Next time you are talking to SOE and you are trying to speak to them, wait till after you swollow and the cock is out of your mouth so they can hear you.
ya know...and i'm being totally serious here..but that kind of talk is useless.

i can't think of a class correspondant without thinking of the mage cc...i am pretty sure the game had nothing to do with what happened to him, but it wasn't nice. i was actually the one who confirmed rumors through the police department in the australian city he lived in that, indeed, somebody by that name had passed away that week in question. they didn't verify that it was suicide, but when friends and family were going through his computer records and logged onto the forum to tell everyone he wouldn't be back, it kind of verified it for us.

wishing somebody would commit suicide makes you, in my opinion, 100x the fucktard anyone could be over some stupid fucking game. good grief.

and looking at what you folks have said about that spell? it looks like it would have needed to be nerfed..sheesh...what a bunch of whiney crybaby bitches...it's a goddamned game for christ's sake...if it makes you that unhappy don't fucking play and save your money for some anger management classes...ffs

*disclaimer* my husband has been away for nearly 5 weeks, i'm pms'ing and it has been over 100 degrees here for the past couple of days and i have no a/c in either my home nor my place of employment, so forgive me if i'm a tad bit bitchy :)

Tryal Anderror

07-25-2006, 03:34 AM

What you just said to us privately... that the spell probably needed to be nerfed... is what Sauruman says publically to the Devs.

Let the Devs figure out to nerf it, don't spoonfeed the reason to them.

Do you understand?

All we want is him to shut up, it shouldn't be hard.

FCseven

07-25-2006, 07:15 AM

I would be all for working with him,but you really can't teach someone discretion when it comes to talking about necro dps with the devs.DPS has always been something to keep on the DL and from the looks of it he just dosent "get it" or care.The fact that he lied on this very post should show you something about his character.I don't trust him at all.

Whispers Quietly

07-25-2006, 07:33 AM

Naively; I ask where is this parse? I've heard so much about it; I would like to see it for myself.

Dalnoths parse of that zerker he claims was naked whipping his ass as well as 5 others; I also looked at that guild, no necro's. But I saw the parse. Where is the parse sauromon did?. And as I understand, it was beta?. Lets see this shit...

Aryse Andenter

07-25-2006, 10:22 AM

He made a theoretical parse, not a real one, so it was a little list of numbers, and posted it to the beta boards during PoR beta. This is probably why he tried to get away with lying about it - only those in beta had access to those boards as it is, I believe they are gone now, and while he would never expect someone to have screenies of the forum, even having them posting them to public boards is a big hesitation.

Nadraux

07-25-2006, 01:55 PM

I'm not going to get into this too much since we really have no recourse in the matter, but I do think it is wrong that a community is stuck with a no faith CC indefinitely. There really should be a better system than that, figurehead or not.

And while it may be a figurehead position for the most part, it is still a position of influence no matter how small that influence may be. Therefore, it is important that whomever is the CC is very concerned with the community and their concerns as that is their job. All too often it seems we're seeing this SoE fanboy-esque talk from our CC and it's a bit alarming. I'm not one who shouts SoE sucks at every turn and I don't think all the Devs are idiots, but when our own CC seems more concerned with promoting SoE's thinking than the community's, something sure seems quite amiss.

It would be nice to feel better represented than this, but I just don't think this is going to happen until we one day get a new CC.

Jebasiz

07-25-2006, 03:35 PM

I think we, as a community need to get over(be done with) trying to remove Sauruman. We don't have that option. Lashing out and bastardizing him from the community will just create a communication breakdown between him and us, and thus a further breakdown in communication between us and SoE. It'll make mistakes and bad posts more likely.

At the moment, he might not care if what he does has a negative impact on us. Surely, we're not instilling a need for him to do us any favors. He posted a hypothetical parse, that he admits was a mistake. I'd venture a guess that he's learned from that. I've bashed the shit out of him in the past, I think most of us are..and it's gotten us nowhere. We can hope he's learned from his mistakes, and that he won't repeat them this time around. Without some guidance, and maybe even some help with the upcoming beta..I think we can expect stagnation and overall retardation to be prominent. I also don't think that's much different then what we could expect with anyone else as correspondant, whether it was me, Aryse, Tryal, Xelgadis, Zavier, Usul, etc etc etc..anyone.

No one person is going to be able to try everything out in a variety fo situations. People don't play the same way, some people are pretty consistent..others aren't. Some people are only interested in how things parse, others are interesting in how things can be applied in less then ideal settings. Whether that be a raid, group, or solo setting..also varies from necro to necro(god to god..if you will!).

The best thing to do, is basically what Sauruman said. Get into beta. /beta your necro, and get him copied over. /spell or whatever the new command will be to get all the proposed spells added to your spell book, and go out and apply them in ways that you see yourself using them once they go live. Then report to Sauruman what you found usefull or just plain stupid..and tell him how you'd like him to represent you for that spell(or issue).

If you don't do that, please take this as an open invitation to stfu, when tss goes live and you're unhappy.

Nadraux

07-25-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jul 25 2006, 11:35 AM
Lashing out and bastardizing him from the community will just create a communication breakdown between him and us, and thus a further breakdown in communication between us and SoE. It'll make mistakes and bad posts more likely.
Communication breakdown doesn't exist now? Existing mistakes and bad posts are the basis from which this discussion continues to feed.

I'm not trying to lash out or bastardize Saur, but as this topic has come up several times I chose to throw in my opinion. Simply put, I disagree with Saur methods and thinking. He may be trying, he may be well intentioned, he may be a nice guy, but that doesn't mean that he is doing the job justice. I feel for the guy in that I don't envy the position and it isn't easy to put yourself out there constantly, but that doesn't mean I will back him blindly despite the job he is doing.

This also doesn't mean I think he should be drawn and quartered and banished from the land never to speak his name again. I reserve that for that rogue necro-hater asshat who's name escapes me atm, and then for hackers and halfling dr00ds.

Jebasiz

07-25-2006, 05:11 PM

Heh, don't mistake my thinking as a "change in heart". I really do truly believe he's not suited to be in that position. I also believe that there's nothing we can do about him being in that position, so..we need to help him, and be very clear in how we want him to represent us.

If I saw that trap in beta, and there was time to pitch a fit about it..and say Xelgadis was CC, I could simply /tell xelgadis, dude that fucking sucks. Which, xelgadis would reply with /r no fucking shit. Then some randomly derogatory words about the dumbfuck that designed it, and then a very analytical breakdown of exactly what that spell can and can't do for us. Then a quick, one or two line "fix", or a simple " it's a piece of shit, there's noway to even make that worth memming /grats on taking up room in the back of my spell book".

With Sauruman, it'd probably take me doing the analytical breakdown, and describing to him how bad/useless the spell is. The thing is, he would listen. I don't know what would result from a conversation like that, but he would listen. Then we'd probably have to offer a recommendation for change or replacement. Where as with Xelgadis or Usul or Zavier..we could be confident on a good change w/o typing everything out for them. We just have to be very clear and specific this time around.

Aryse Andenter

07-25-2006, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jul 25 2006, 03:35 PM
He posted a hypothetical parse, that he admits was a mistake. I'd venture a guess that he's learned from that.

I see Saruman telling lies about his parse post, not admitting it was a mistake. He's demonstarted over and over again that he doesn't learn from this sort of thing.

Without some guidance, and maybe even some help with the upcoming beta..I think we can expect stagnation and overall retardation to be prominent.

Guidance? Last beta we tried everything. People talked to Sauruman in depth in several channels, people sent him PMs, people proofread his posts, people even wrote posts for him. I finally even tried asking him to stop posting (which of course he didn't).

Did that end with the beta? Nope - people have done all of those things since the beta too. What exactly more guidance do you think we can offer? Its been done, its been done in depth, he responded poorly to that, the lashing out came after first trying to work with him.

If guidance didn't work last beta, or in the time since then, you're retarded if you think it will work now.

The best thing to do, is basically what Sauruman said.* Get into beta.* /beta your necro, and get him copied over.* /spell* or whatever the new command will be to get all the proposed spells added to your spell book, and go out and apply them in ways that you see yourself using them once they go live.* Then report to Sauruman what you found usefull or just plain stupid..and tell him how you'd like him to represent you for that spell(or issue).

Yes - because that worked oh so well last time /deep sarcasm off.
Forgive me, but so me of us have been there, done that, and are still rather unhappy with the results. Do you know what I'm thinking for this expansion? I'm thinking that my energy in preserving or advancing our class abilities is best spent by attacking Sauruman. Because, as you keep seeming to miss - WE ALREADY DID WHAT YOU SUGGESTED and look how that turned out.

If you don't do that, please take this as an open invitation to stfu, when tss goes live and you're unhappy.

Since last beta I joined, did a lot of tests on the spells (indeed, uncovered quite a few bugs with them) spent time posting, eventually from several accounts, on the beta boards and using /feedback and /bug in game, can I then take this as an invitation to say I was there last time, I tried my best and did my part, and I am still fucking unhappy with the efforts of Sauruman? Does that give me a free pass on stfu?

Tryal Anderror

07-25-2006, 10:41 PM

We couldn't Possibly be more Clear with him, He Disagrees with what the vast majority of us want and he will no change his style

To this day he thinks everything he's done is perfectly fine.

He does not listen, a half dozen people all PMed him during Beta trying to explain to him that he needs to be quiet or stop saying certain things, and explaining the spells to him, but he does not understand, and he absolutely will not listen

Sauruman constantly makes posts to convince Us that Devs are right, not vice versa.

You can be as clear or specific as you want, but he doesn't understand and he disagrees totally.

He's said from day 1 he's not an advocate of the class, and until that entire premise is removed from his mind, he's worse than useless.

Jebasiz

07-26-2006, 05:09 AM

Fucking Canadians...

daephyx

07-26-2006, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by sauruman@Jul 24 2006, 01:07 PM
1) The spell was pulled before my parse, it was a way to try and get back the spell. The parse proved it would have been in line with other spells we had, it wasn't unbalanced etc. Finally I appoligized for posting said parse long ago, publically, in this forum. Do a search jackass.

2) If you want to nerf my voice or do something constructive, sign up for beta. Registrations are right around the corner. Do something constructive or keep your mouth shut, your doing nothing to help the necromancer cause which you claim I am hurting.
You are supposed to mediate our concerns, Sauruman. It's not your voice that is supposed to speak, it is ours. If you would recognize that, you would spend alot less time trying to justify your actions to an upset community.

Schaeffer

07-26-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Jul 25 2006, 06:41 PM
If guidance didn't work last beta, or in the time since then, you're retarded if you think it will work now.
Actually 90% of people who suffer from mental retardation have a better sense of logic than that FYI.

:P

Jebasiz

07-26-2006, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Jul 26 2006, 09:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Jul 26 2006, 09:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Aryse Andenter@Jul 25 2006, 06:41 PM
If guidance didn't work last beta, or in the time since then, you're retarded if you think it will work now.
Actually 90% of people who suffer from mental retardation have a better sense of logic than that FYI.

:P [/b][/quote]
SO THERE!

Schaeffer

07-26-2006, 02:17 PM

Yeah take THAT you EBIL canadians!!!!

Jebasiz

07-26-2006, 04:05 PM

Blame Canada
South Park Parents

Times have changed,
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents,
They just want to fart and curse. Should we blame the government, or blame society, or should we blame the images on tv No!
Blame Canada! Blame Canada

With all their beady little eyes,
their flapping heads so full of lies
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
We need to form a full assault, it's Canada's fault! Don't blame me, for my son Stan, He saw the darn cartoon, and now he's off to
join the klan!> And my boy eric once, had my picture on his shelf, but now when I see him, he tells me to fuck myself>

Well, Blame Canada!

It seems that everything's gone wrong since
Canada came along
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada! They're not even a real country anyway. My son could of been a doctor or a lawyer, it's a true, Instead he burned up like a piggie on a barbecue> Should we blame the matches? Should we blame the fire, or the doctor who allowed him to expire. Heck no!
Blame Canada!
Blame Canada!
With all their hockey hubaloo and that bitch Anne Murray too. Blame Canada!
Shame on Canada!

The smut we must stop
The trash we must smash
Laughter and fun
must all be undone
We must blame them and cause a fuss
Before somebody thinks of blaming us!

Hangman Gallows

07-26-2006, 06:33 PM

I blame all liberal hippy commie fags, not just canadians

Jebasiz

07-26-2006, 06:45 PM

Canadians, any of you reading this..please take Shania back. That's all I ask!

Schaeffer

07-26-2006, 07:08 PM

And Celine Dion, can't you like lock her in an ice dungeon somewhere so she'll have to gnaw her way out over a thousand years?

Jebasiz

07-26-2006, 07:22 PM

Here's my racial slur for the day..dare I? (and I don't really hate rednecks, so don't be offended!).

The only thing worse then a redneck is a wanna-be redneck from canada. Take them back plz!

daephyx

07-26-2006, 08:14 PM

I'm offended. If I ever get a circle-jerk site for sexually-frustrated teenagers who play wow, I'll ban you.

Brahman

07-26-2006, 08:15 PM

I dont' really think red neck is racial...

its kinda like saying the term trailer trash is racial...

Its a group of people and how they act...

sure, 99.99999% of the time those people happen to be white, but it isn't a term reffering to all white people.

Just my 2 bits :)

Schaeffer

07-26-2006, 08:19 PM

Just my 2 bits

That post contained approximately 3654271024 bits of data Priv8 skewlz ferda vvin!!!!!1111!

najiwench

07-26-2006, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 26 2006, 08:15 PM
I dont' really think red neck is racial...

its kinda like saying the term trailer trash is racial...

Its a group of people and how they act...

sure, 99.99999% of the time those people happen to be white, but it isn't a term reffering to all white people.

Just my 2 bits :)
meh, redneck, trailer trash, white trash..all kind of the white equivalent to the n word for black people...

najiwench

07-26-2006, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by daephyx+Jul 26 2006, 08:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (daephyx @ Jul 26 2006, 08:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sauruman@Jul 24 2006, 01:07 PM
1) The spell was pulled before my parse, it was a way to try and get back the spell. The parse proved it would have been in line with other spells we had, it wasn't unbalanced etc. Finally I appoligized for posting said parse long ago, publically, in this forum. Do a search jackass.

2) If you want to nerf my voice or do something constructive, sign up for beta. Registrations are right around the corner. Do something constructive or keep your mouth shut, your doing nothing to help the necromancer cause which you claim I am hurting.
You are supposed to mediate our concerns, Sauruman. It's not your voice that is supposed to speak, it is ours. If you would recognize that, you would spend alot less time trying to justify your actions to an upset community. [/b][/quote]
how DARE you post something so constructive and well thought out and maturely written on thos forum!!! ban him plz

Schaeffer

07-27-2006, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by najiwench@Jul 26 2006, 07:25 PM
meh, redneck, trailer trash, white trash..all kind of the white equivalent to the n word for black people...
My favorite being honky, followed by cracka

najiwench

07-27-2006, 03:11 AM

yo, cracka, pass me that diet coke....

cracka please... (http://www.birbigs.com/media/56k/cracker.mov)

Hangman Gallows

07-27-2006, 03:47 AM

Cracka say wha?

Schaeffer

07-27-2006, 03:59 AM

Cracka pleeze

Brahman

07-27-2006, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by najiwench+Jul 26 2006, 06:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Jul 26 2006, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Jul 26 2006, 08:15 PM
I dont' really think red neck is racial...

its kinda like saying the term trailer trash is racial...

Its a group of people and how they act...

sure, 99.99999% of the time those people happen to be white, but it isn't a term reffering to all white people.

Just my 2 bits :)
meh, redneck, trailer trash, white trash..all kind of the white equivalent to the n word for black people... [/b][/quote]
yeah, well you have limited life experience then. I have met plenty of black trailer trash. and a fair number black rednecks too.

Qedd

07-27-2006, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by najiwench+Jul 26 2006, 06:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Jul 26 2006, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by daephyx@Jul 26 2006, 08:22 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-sauruman@Jul 24 2006, 01:07 PM
1) The spell was pulled before my parse, it was a way to try and get back the spell. The parse proved it would have been in line with other spells we had, it wasn't unbalanced etc. Finally I appoligized for posting said parse long ago, publically, in this forum. Do a search jackass.

2) If you want to nerf my voice or do something constructive, sign up for beta. Registrations are right around the corner. Do something constructive or keep your mouth shut, your doing nothing to help the necromancer cause which you claim I am hurting.
You are supposed to mediate our concerns, Sauruman. It's not your voice that is supposed to speak, it is ours. If you would recognize that, you would spend alot less time trying to justify your actions to an upset community.
how DARE you post something so constructive and well thought out and maturely written on thos forum!!! ban him plz[/b][/quote]
Indeed, lol.

I have basically the same issue with Sauruman. He doesn't seem to give a shit about what the community wants unless it meshes with his own ideas. Which often seem to come from some special level of retardation.

Personally, after all the obvious resentment and unhappiness with his performance, I don't see why he still thinks he deserves to stay or would even want to.

If he really was concerned about the desires of the community, he oughta resign in the face of such glaring non-confidence.

Just shows a level of arrogance and "fuck-y'all-I-ain't-leaving" attitude, since he knows he won't get removed unless he stops following Kytherea's "Rules of Sucking Up"

And as for guidance .. you're shittin' me right? The CC is supposed to already know what the fuck he's talking about .. and what the fuck he shouldn't be talking about. That's kinda one of the defining qualities, don't ya think? You know, someone that really knows the class and how to represent it to the benefit and appreciation of the community. I've seen no benefit so far and certainly nothing meriting appreciation.

If we gotta hold their hand and explain shit to em every step of the way, they don't belong there to begin with.

shackleton

07-27-2006, 08:19 AM

I don't come here often, so afraid I come in a bit too late to prevent you chaps roasting your own correspondant (??!) but the person who highlighted the discrepancy between spells to the developers, which ultimately resulted in it getting nerfed, was me.

Hope you didn't burn any bridges!

Shackleton
(former correspondant)

Ckador

07-27-2006, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by shackleton@Jul 27 2006, 08:19 AM
I don't come here often, so afraid I come in a bit too late to prevent you chaps roasting your own correspondant (??!) but the person who highlighted the discrepancy between spells to the developers, which ultimately resulted in it getting nerfed, was me.

Hope you didn't burn any bridges!

Shackleton
(former correspondant)
Hah, look at this guy. His only claim-to-fame is trying to live off the achievements of another idiot. Grats on sucking 1) At EQ, 2) At internet trolling, 3) At life. You're lucky Sauruman is too much of a pussy to put you in your place, because I'd have skewed you and your shitbag class all over EQLive. You'd have hung it up sooner Mr. (former correspondent), in shame, or utter annoyance. Ask your replacement, Dalnoth, who turned him bitch. Matter of fact, send all those cockmongrels here, or better yet, catch up with me in serverwide.necrotalk:necrotalk. I'll be expecting you...

Please stop trying to take credit for Sauruman's incompetence. Only thing worse than a loser claiming to have done something grande, is a loser taking credit for another loser's monumentous douchebaggery. You couldn't even suck enough to actually get us nerfed, so in that respect, even Sauruman > You. I mean it's like you were always destined to be a piece of garbage, and EVEN THAT you can't claim First Place in. Grats on being the Runner-Up in a never-ending cycle of failure.

Oh, and you're English too, I bet that means your teeth look like you've been chewing on a sack of assholes and granite. But fear not, one day, when you're living all alone because your family and friends have abandoned you in shame, you can look back on the defining moment of how much of a waste you and your life have become, and maybe...just maybe... convince yourself that you actually accomplished something you set out to do.

So, in conclusion -
1) You suck
2) Your Class sucks
3) Your shithole country sucks
4) You're destined to lose (at anything and everything), because even Jesus, Allah, Buddah, Vishnu, Confucious, and Brigham Young all agree that you're to be the epitome, or perhaps avatar of what failure means.

Aryse Andenter

07-27-2006, 11:22 AM

Jebasiz

07-27-2006, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Jul 27 2006, 06:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Jul 27 2006, 06:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-shackleton@Jul 27 2006, 08:19 AM
I don't come here often, so afraid I come in a bit too late to prevent you chaps roasting your own correspondant (??!) but the person who highlighted the discrepancy between spells to the developers, which ultimately resulted in it getting nerfed, was me.

Hope you didn't burn any bridges!

Shackleton
(former correspondant)
Shackleton, you did not post a traiterous post which included an extreme fake parse. You did not continuously work against your class through the entire beta. Nor is this the only thing Sauruman has done, it is simply one in a long line of 'foot in mouth' or 'working against his class' incidents. I adore how a lot of the class bashing on the eqlive boards was brough on by Sauruman's posts. In fact, it seems to me that one of his first posts here was referring us all to eqnecro... remember that folks? So, he got off on the wrong foot and proved over and over again that was the foot he was determined to stand on. He no longer even consults us about the weekly questions, nor shares with us which he asked or what the results were. I think when a correspondent decides not to listen to his class, he's the one burning bridges.

PS - Ckador, do you ever sleep? [/b][/quote]
He's like a New Yorker or some shit, they never sleep, like none of them do. They're all up at 3am complaining about how much asshole the Yankees lick, or how much a complete joke the NY Knicks are. Atleast they have the METS, this year!

Schaeffer

07-27-2006, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Jul 27 2006, 09:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Jul 27 2006, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Aryse Andenter@Jul 27 2006, 06:22 AM
PS - Ckador, do you ever sleep?

He's like a New Yorker or some shit, they never sleep, like none of them do. They're all up at 3am complaining about how much asshole the Yankees lick, or how much a complete joke the NY Knicks are. Atleast they have the METS, this year! [/b][/quote]
Damn right!

LETS GO METS!!!!

Jebasiz

07-27-2006, 04:55 PM

I'm looking forward to the New York Football Giants' Season. They should be fun to watch. I'm a Pats Fan, I grew up there..always have been. Lucky for me, one's afc and one's nfc so I can root for both without feeling to badly.

Qedd

07-27-2006, 08:33 PM

Haha. Ckador is my hero .. even if he is a lizard.

Ckador

07-27-2006, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Qedd@Jul 27 2006, 08:33 PM
Haha. Ckador is my hero .. even if he is a lizard.
<3

Nadori

07-27-2006, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by Ckador+Jul 27 2006, 12:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ckador @ Jul 27 2006, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Qedd@Jul 27 2006, 08:33 PM
Haha. Ckador is my hero .. even if he is a lizard.
<3 [/b][/quote]
Thats gay lol

Ckador

07-27-2006, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Nadori+Jul 27 2006, 08:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Nadori @ Jul 27 2006, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Ckador@Jul 27 2006, 12:52 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Qedd@Jul 27 2006, 08:33 PM
Haha.* Ckador is my hero .. even if he is a lizard.
<3
Thats gay lol [/b][/quote]
</3

Nadori

07-27-2006, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Ckador+Jul 27 2006, 01:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ckador @ Jul 27 2006, 01:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Nadori@Jul 27 2006, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Ckador@Jul 27 2006, 12:52 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Qedd@Jul 27 2006, 08:33 PM
Haha.** Ckador is my hero .. even if he is a lizard.
<3
Thats gay lol
</3 [/b][/quote]
<3

Hangman Gallows

07-27-2006, 10:50 PM

Back to the topic. Resign with dignity now or watch as your incompetence and stupidity spreads to other more public and widely read forums.

najiwench

07-27-2006, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Brahman+Jul 27 2006, 05:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Jul 27 2006, 05:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by najiwench@Jul 26 2006, 06:25 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Jul 26 2006, 08:15 PM
I dont' really think red neck is racial...

its kinda like saying the term trailer trash is racial...

Its a group of people and how they act...

sure, 99.99999% of the time those people happen to be white, but it isn't a term reffering to all white people.

Just my 2 bits :)
meh, redneck, trailer trash, white trash..all kind of the white equivalent to the n word for black people...
yeah, well you have limited life experience then. I have met plenty of black trailer trash. and a fair number black rednecks too. [/b][/quote]
*sigh* and there goes the saying as "niggers come in all colors..." because i've met my share of white ones...but they are usually called white trash..just as the black trash is usually referred to with the n word...

do you masturbate when you think of retarded things to argue about?

najiwench

07-27-2006, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by Ckador+Jul 27 2006, 10:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ckador @ Jul 27 2006, 10:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-shackleton@Jul 27 2006, 08:19 AM
I don't come here often, so afraid I come in a bit too late to prevent you chaps roasting your own correspondant (??!) but the person who highlighted the discrepancy between spells to the developers, which ultimately resulted in it getting nerfed, was me.

Hope you didn't burn any bridges!

Shackleton
(former correspondant)
Hah, look at this guy. His only claim-to-fame is trying to live off the achievements of another idiot. Grats on sucking 1) At EQ, 2) At internet trolling, 3) At life. You're lucky Sauruman is too much of a pussy to put you in your place, because I'd have skewed you and your shitbag class all over EQLive. You'd have hung it up sooner Mr. (former correspondent), in shame, or utter annoyance. Ask your replacement, Dalnoth, who turned him bitch. Matter of fact, send all those cockmongrels here, or better yet, catch up with me in serverwide.necrotalk:necrotalk. I'll be expecting you...

Please stop trying to take credit for Sauruman's incompetence. Only thing worse than a loser claiming to have done something grande, is a loser taking credit for another loser's monumentous douchebaggery. You couldn't even suck enough to actually get us nerfed, so in that respect, even Sauruman > You. I mean it's like you were always destined to be a piece of garbage, and EVEN THAT you can't claim First Place in. Grats on being the Runner-Up in a never-ending cycle of failure.

Oh, and you're English too, I bet that means your teeth look like you've been chewing on a sack of assholes and granite. But fear not, one day, when you're living all alone because your family and friends have abandoned you in shame, you can look back on the defining moment of how much of a waste you and your life have become, and maybe...just maybe... convince yourself that you actually accomplished something you set out to do.

So, in conclusion -
1) You suck
2) Your Class sucks
3) Your shithole country sucks
4) You're destined to lose (at anything and everything), because even Jesus, Allah, Buddah, Vishnu, Confucious, and Brigham Young all agree that you're to be the epitome, or perhaps avatar of what failure means. [/b][/quote]
holy fuck...ckador finally made me laugh

Hangman Gallows

07-28-2006, 04:55 AM

You mean Joseph Smith

Jebasiz

07-28-2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 27 2006, 05:50 PM
Back to the topic. Resign with dignity now or watch as your incompetence and stupidity spreads to other more public and widely read forums.
Threats! You must be a tough guy IRL!

Hangman Gallows

07-28-2006, 05:19 PM

Threat? nope, jsut telling him the reality of the situation. This topic is already on 2 forums, how long till it is on eqlive?

Schaeffer

07-28-2006, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 28 2006, 01:19 PM
Threat? nope, jsut telling him the reality of the situation. This topic is already on 2 forums, how long till it is on eqlive?
Pretty sure Kytherea already said on eqlive that he will NOT remove ANY CC as long as they do his bidding, which so far it seems like ours has... Give up on the system not the man, the man is doing what he's supposed to do as far as SoE is concerned.

Hangman Gallows

07-28-2006, 06:11 PM

Yes, but its not really thier choice. Its like the factory workers getting told by management that the person they told is the Union Leader is the Union Leader and they wont listen to anyone else. its up to us to pick who we want to represent us, not sony.

Jebasiz

07-28-2006, 06:27 PM

There's a difference between appointed and elected representation. In this case we have the former.

Schaeffer

07-28-2006, 06:44 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/apdmikey/unite.jpg

najiwench

07-29-2006, 05:30 AM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 28 2006, 06:11 PM
Yes, but its not really thier choice. Its like the factory workers getting told by management that the person they told is the Union Leader is the Union Leader and they wont listen to anyone else. its up to us to pick who we want to represent us, not sony.
and.....that's where you're wrong.

what are you going to do? stage a walk-out? rofl

Hangman Gallows

07-29-2006, 09:41 AM

najiwench

07-29-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 29 2006, 09:41 AM
No, but we just dont use him and set up one ourselves. I love how people are taking this as if they never stood up for themselves. I bet you are all lefty commie hippy fags too and you let people walk all over you when you go shopping too. I'm sure most of you are the type to take things back becuase its broken when you get it and if they dont take it back you go ok. Then go buy another one. That is not my personality at all.

Grow a little back bone you jellyfish
hmm..very easy to say, but "setting one up" yourselves just won't work, as sauruman is the one they have appointed and the one they will listen to.

anyone else, they will tell "please address your concerns to your class correspondent and blah blah blah" at least, that's what i'm betting would happen.

i could be wrong, but since THEY set up the deal, i'm betting THEY will play by THEIR rules and tell you to quit being a whiney bitch...

Xelgadis

07-29-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 29 2006, 04:41 AM
No, but we just dont use him and set up one ourselves. I love how people are taking this as if they never stood up for themselves. I bet you are all lefty commie hippy fags too and you let people walk all over you when you go shopping too. I'm sure most of you are the type to take things back becuase its broken when you get it and if they dont take it back you go ok. Then go buy another one. That is not my personality at all.

Grow a little back bone you jellyfish
In the real world, whining like a little bitch or making threats to the place of business, which would have followed the scenario you so elloquently painted, doesn't work at all. Sorry honey, there's protocol to follow, and your scenario is exactly how to NOT do it.

If the community had elected Sauruman into his position, you might.. just might.. have a valid point. However, the community did not elect him, Sony appointed him, which makes your point mean precicely dick.

Rdarkwill

07-29-2006, 05:01 PM

No, but we just dont use him and set up one ourselves. I love how people are taking this as if they never stood up for themselves. I bet you are all lefty commie hippy fags too and you let people walk all over you when you go shopping too. I'm sure most of you are the type to take things back becuase its broken when you get it and if they dont take it back you go ok. Then go buy another one. That is not my personality at all.

Grow a little back bone you jellyfish

How do you plan on persuading people to take you seriously when 90% of what you say is insult ? I'm sorry if this offends, but you come across as a very young, very frustrated individual who is just as happy with negative attention as positive, and that's just sad. =(

Hangman Gallows

07-29-2006, 11:31 PM

90% of all statistics are made up

Do you actually think I care what anyone thinks of me? I stand up for myself with out worrying who I might offend. Oh no someone thinks im young and after attention becuase I want something changed. And yes im calling people names becuase I call it as I see it. You are all willing to let yourselves be taken advantage of by an unfair system. I am sure glad you all went here for the revloutionary war. You all would have just taken it in the ass and thanked them afterwards. Ive seen less pussies on a nude beach.

Schaeffer

07-30-2006, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 29 2006, 07:31 PM
Ive seen less pussies on a nude beach.
Stop staring at the all the penix and you'll see more pussy

brinlar

07-30-2006, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Jul 29 2006, 09:41 AM
No, but we just dont use him and set up one ourselves.
ok so do it already and quit whining here. no one else really cares as much as you seem to so just do it already and shut up.

Silayn Test

08-01-2006, 09:27 PM

<-- I care

Sauruman your and idiot.

Dont be stupid the expansion is upon us.

najiwench

08-01-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Silayn Test@Aug 1 2006, 09:27 PM
<-- I care

Sauruman your and idiot.

Dont be stupid the expansion is upon us.
*cough*

you're

and it's an, not and

the way you wrote it makes no sense.

for pete's sake, people...if you are going to call somebody an idiot, at least don't be so blatant about looking like one yourself sheesh...

Whispers Quietly

08-02-2006, 01:37 AM

People still talking about this?

it's simple; if you pay for game, you accept it.

if you don't pay for game, What's it to you?

Why should any company listen to the complainer as long as they are still paying...

FCseven

08-03-2006, 04:41 AM

**edit**bleh-nm,don't want to ruin my beta privileges

Aryse Andenter

08-03-2006, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Aug 2 2006, 01:37 AM

Why should any company listen to the complainer as long as they are still paying...
Why the hell should any company listen to someone who isn't even a customer? No offense, but keep hearing people using this retarded liine about companies not listening while you pay for their product, and I personally think that's crap. Maybe they don't listen well to paying customers.... but they still listen to them a whole lot more than the random unpaying enormous mass of non customers who they aren't even separating into potentials or not. Its cheaper to keep the customers you have than to attract new ones.

najiwench

08-03-2006, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Aug 3 2006, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Aug 3 2006, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Whispers Quietly@Aug 2 2006, 01:37 AM

Why should any company listen to the complainer as long as they are still paying...
Why the hell should any company listen to someone who isn't even a customer? No offense, but keep hearing people using this retarded liine about companies not listening while you pay for their product, and I personally think that's crap. Maybe they don't listen well to paying customers.... but they still listen to them a whole lot more than the random unpaying enormous mass of non customers who they aren't even separating into potentials or not. Its cheaper to keep the customers you have than to attract new ones. [/b][/quote]
i think the point is..if a slew of people suddenly stop paying for the item, they will be more open to hearing what it will take to get those customers back...

Jebasiz

08-03-2006, 06:28 PM

this is a personal attack of sorts. Therefore belongs in the inferno.

Nadori

08-03-2006, 06:30 PM

I will say it now and i said it before.

You guys are like on a which hunt. Sauruman is trying...he might not be trying the was you want him to be. And he is very active and is getting things done. Just because a certain few are not pleased with it i dont give a damn.

Im glad Kywhatever will not take a vote to remove him...

Sauruman youre doing a great job and i respect the way you have handled these attacks on your person. Keep up the good job and hopefully one day you will please EVERYONE. (i highly doubt it but good luck)

You have experience in both high end and familly guild and i feel like i can trust your judgment.

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 06:41 PM

Name one thing that he has improved for us?

Schaeffer

08-03-2006, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 02:41 PM
Name one thing that he has improved for us?
minf flay > mind wrack

Jebasiz

08-03-2006, 07:14 PM

schaeffer's spell book has more "f's" in it than anyone elses!

edit: and less "D's"

Schaeffer

08-03-2006, 07:26 PM

I yeah I'll give U some F's...

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Aug 3 2006, 06:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Aug 3 2006, 06:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 02:41 PM
Name one thing that he has improved for us?
minf flay > mind wrack [/b][/quote]
Such a huge upgrade that POS spell was. That didnt help necros anyway, it helped raidleaders make necros go into a role of being the mana battery again.

Schaeffer

08-03-2006, 07:47 PM

People asked for it, that's the point and they got it. Sorry you're not getting what you want, perhaps you should PM Kytherea directly on the Vet boards, seriously he likes that, you should go for it.

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 07:55 PM

People asked for a 30 mana upgrade? Wow are you such full of shit.

Maeryn

08-03-2006, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows+Aug 3 2006, 03:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hangman Gallows @ Aug 3 2006, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 3 2006, 06:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 02:41 PM
Name one thing that he has improved for us?
minf flay > mind wrack
Such a huge upgrade that POS spell was. That didnt help necros anyway, it helped raidleaders make necros go into a role of being the mana battery again. [/b][/quote]
i can't imagine that a raid leader looked at mind flay and started telling their Necros to twitch. not to mention that whether i'm twitching or not i was always using mw/mf in groups and/or raids, regardless. not my favorite spell, but at least it's a little more efficient than it was, and it's better than twitching, imo.

i'm not saying i like it, i'd MUCH rather have gotten an improved magic DoT, or lifetap, or... well, anything, but it IS a better spell now than it was, however i don't think it was a huge enough upgrade to sway anyone into changing how they view our role on raids either way. i mean let's say we were to get an upgrade to acikin with TSS, i doubt guild leaders everywhere would tell us to put away the DoTs and start nuking =P

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 08:07 PM

I was actually told to use MF in groups during raids and would be in an all cleric group. I told them to fuck off and that I wouldnt do it. It was a POS spell I used like 2 times ever. I would have rather had a real spell that was useful.

Maeryn

08-03-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 04:07 PM
I was actually told to use MF in groups during raids and would be in an all cleric group. I told them to fuck off and that I wouldnt do it. It was a POS spell I used like 2 times ever. I would have rather had a real spell that was useful.
HAHA.... HA... Heh.

Yeah, sorry, that's kinda funny. Almost as funny as the Ranger who asked me to twitch him a few nights ago, then disbanded and gated when I didn't tell him to go screw fast enough =(

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 08:18 PM

I know, what is up with morons like that ranger. Ive had druids, rangers, and beastlords ask me for twitch before. For some reason they never got a single one.

Edit: I left that guild and so did alot of others. They went from raiding Demi to raiding PoTime in 1 month. So much for being the top guild on the server. They went from furthest progressed to being in the middle of the pack becuase the officers got to arrogant and told everyone how to play thier class and even if it was wrong they still expected you to do it. I always wondered why a cleric would think they know how to play a necro better than me.

Brahman

08-03-2006, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:07 PM
I was actually told to use MF in groups during raids and would be in an all cleric group. I told them to fuck off and that I wouldnt do it. It was a POS spell I used like 2 times ever. I would have rather had a real spell that was useful.
is that on all raids.

or a particular raid?

Cause on some fights that a pretty viable strat.

Hangman Gallows

08-03-2006, 08:24 PM

No its not. Just kick some druid and get another cleric.

Maeryn

08-03-2006, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Brahman+Aug 3 2006, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Aug 3 2006, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:07 PM
I was actually told to use MF in groups during raids and would be in an all cleric group. I told them to fuck off and that I wouldnt do it. It was a POS spell I used like 2 times ever. I would have rather had a real spell that was useful.
is that on all raids.

or a particular raid?

Cause on some fights that a pretty viable strat. [/b][/quote]
The funny part is that this guild leader decided this was a good idea after seeing how "big" of an upgrade mind flay was to mind wrack.

Made me laugh irl, as did Mr. Ranger.

Brahman

08-03-2006, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:24 PM
No its not. Just kick some druid and get another cleric.
raid leaders tend to be concerned with what they have in the raid already, not with having to pack up and go home untill you can recruit anouther cleric.

Although if maeryn is talking about her own guild there, you already know my thoughts on that guild. http://www.darkova.net/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_madu.gifhttp://www.darkova.net/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_fU.gif

if you are not, pls apply my thoughts on that guild, to wtf ever guild you are talking about. TY have a nice day.

Whispers Quietly

08-04-2006, 02:47 AM

So Hangman, How is Beta going? I realize you cannot give particulars, but slide some clues to us using differant screen name.

We getting nerfed?

Oh; I assumed you signed up, Hopefully you are...........

Whispers Quietly

08-04-2006, 02:58 AM

To the guy that calls himself "?' test. Hey Dude, If Hangman is to modest. Can you keep us informed on beta? Out of all the people, I know you signed up...

You're our hero, Are we getting nerfed? Don't let this echo i hear continue. My own question being ask......

Tell it loud and proud brother, You signed up and here's how it's going....?

Come on; you can use a differant name, oh wait. Sorry dude; you don't seem to be the kind of guy to hide behide protocol. My apoligizes...

I backed you for a reason, please don't let me down and do the same... ASK the questions straight up, don't wave the tinkle, no contest winners that way...

Straight up or Die, hit the ceiling for us...

Fotus

08-04-2006, 03:06 AM

hard saying yet.

the CC hasn't done anything to horrid just yet though...

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 12:30 PM

Being put in a rot group and asked to mindflay is a completely acceptable role for a necromancer. I think I de-mem funeral pyre of kelador for mind flay when I'm asked too. Sorry, ~60-80 dps is not worth your healers running out of mana. You can still parse VERY well on long fights(short fights won't require this and are moot in this argument). In a fight long enough to necessitate this type of strategy, you casting MF could lengthen the duration in which your guild can fight by several minutes. Accumulating 100's of thousands of damage over the course of that fight.

Not complying with and arguing against a very reasonable and efficient request just makes you look like a drama-loving jackass. I like a good parse as much as the next guy, but I like a guild win more. There are raids I don't like, there are a few I wish we approached differently..but, if someone asks for mindflay I'll cast it.

Twitch on the other hand...very very rarely will I ever mem twitch.

Maeryn

08-04-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Brahman+Aug 3 2006, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Aug 3 2006, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:24 PM
No its not. Just kick some druid and get another cleric.
...Although if maeryn is talking about her own guild there, you already know my thoughts on that guild.... [/b][/quote]
Since Hangman and I aren't on the same server, not sure why you'd think he was talking about my guild and I said group not raid, so... ?

Just gotta get your little digs in where you can, huh? Heh.

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:55 PM
People asked for a 30 mana upgrade? Wow are you such full of shit.
No, people asked for an upgrade and they got it, people asked for higher level fears and they got them, people asked for more undead spells and they got them. Practically they only things we don't get when we ask for them were new pet models (which seems like it's finally coming this time in the form of a different type of spectre unfortunately), an upgrade to screaming terror and a fix for willful death.

Yes, they give us what we ask for and it still sucks. Obviously the devs felt differently than we do about those lines of spells and they decided to make them a slap in the face.

Just because you're running around throwing temper tantrums like a 5 year old because you didn't get exactly what you wanted doesn't mean the devs didn't give the community as a whole what it asked for. We want a little of everything, more DPS across the board, undead utility, fear and CC. The devs basically have sent us the message, you're already the best class in the game we can't give you all that functionality and it be like it was when you were in your 40's owning everything that crossed your path.

What the fuck do you want so bad anyways? Can you give us an example?

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 4 2006, 09:58 AM
What the fuck do you want so bad anyways? Can you give us an example?
He wants a lap dance from Patrick Swayze...

Nadori

08-04-2006, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Aug 4 2006, 06:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Aug 4 2006, 06:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hangman Gallows@Aug 3 2006, 03:55 PM
People asked for a 30 mana upgrade? Wow are you such full of shit.
No, people asked for an upgrade and they got it, people asked for higher level fears and they got them, people asked for more undead spells and they got them. Practically they only things we don't get when we ask for them were new pet models (which seems like it's finally coming this time in the form of a different type of spectre unfortunately), an upgrade to screaming terror and a fix for willful death.

Yes, they give us what we ask for and it still sucks. Obviously the devs felt differently than we do about those lines of spells and they decided to make them a slap in the face.

Just because you're running around throwing temper tantrums like a 5 year old because you didn't get exactly what you wanted doesn't mean the devs didn't give the community as a whole what it asked for. We want a little of everything, more DPS across the board, undead utility, fear and CC. The devs basically have sent us the message, you're already the best class in the game we can't give you all that functionality and it be like it was when you were in your 40's owning everything that crossed your path.

What the fuck do you want so bad anyways? Can you give us an example? [/b][/quote]
Exactly

I don't have much more to add since Schaeffer said it all.

Maybe you don't like him as a person....He's respected by most of the other classes and seems like SOE employees...and a majority of the necro comunity.
It's about time you guys realise that and start working with him so he can do his job even better now.

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 03:36 PM

Well, that was specifically addressed to Hangman, I can understand everyone else being upset about our aura. I'm dispappointed abou that too, but I'm not gonna piss and moan like an impudent jerk...

GnekroeGnomicon

08-04-2006, 03:39 PM

I have expressed my opinions in the past, but now all I want us to do is move on, work with what we got, and hope for the best in the next expansion :D

Nadori

08-04-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 4 2006, 07:36 AM
Well, that was specifically addressed to Hangman, I can understand everyone else being upset about our aura. I'm dispappointed abou that too, but I'm not gonna piss and moan like an impudent jerk...
I know that.

I'm not saying you share my opinion.

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 05:21 PM

I figured you knew that, just making it clear to Mr. Waahbulance.

Hangman Gallows

08-04-2006, 05:47 PM

I might be a jerk, but im not a pussy.

You touched on a few thigns, but not all. What I want is for my CoA robe to go back to what it was, I want an upgrade to splurt, I want an arua that is worth a damn, I want lure dots so on fights I have a chance to do some damage instead of hoping tap lands, I want a burn AA like everyother dps class has, I want an upgrade to screaming terror, I want out charms un nerfed, I want our best pvp dot to come out after Kunark, I want s better way to make EEs, I want Better lich models and conversions, and I want our CoA gear to have a detrimental spell haste mod on them.

These are just a few things I want.

Also, when we ask for an upgrade and they give us such a minor upgrade I get the impression that the devs are just just didnt think about it and just said out lets improve the last one a little bit without looking at how old the last spell was. Im sure that one of them copied and pasted the old spell saw what it did and just changed the name and the 0 to a 3.

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 06:02 PM

No I think the devs gave it alot of thought actually, obviously you don't like to read the entirety of posts. Everyone wants improvements and upgrades, but you want to be a god, the devs and most everyone else want balance. There'll be no pleasing you no matter who the CC is.

If you want everything to be handed to you on a silver platter go play WoW or EQ2. (no offense to Fel or Naji)

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 06:07 PM

Zajeer has replied specifically to both sauruman and me saying that he'll get to aura's after tss launches. If I had the PM still I'd post it.

If you want lures, play a wizard..they're not coming here.

Splurt..that's a request that has been made on SoE boards, and hopefully being looked it.

Burn AA's..we do dmg over time, not burst. I doubt that would happen by spell or ability. Perhaps by itemization, but that's a long shot..and if it happens it won't be available to everyone.

Screaming terror..probably a dead horse

Lich- has been requested.

EE's /shrug

spell haste on anguish gear... research better prz (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=35158)

Hangman Gallows

08-04-2006, 06:42 PM

Maybe you aught to, I had full anguish gear, no spell haste from it.

We need spells that land that is not godlike.

I have been a necro for 5 years on the hardest server. I want my class to be worth a damn. Right now its not.

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 06:47 PM

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/equipment/fpics2/ring_of_persecution.jpg

since ya missed it!

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 4 2006, 02:42 PM
Maybe you aught to, I had full anguish gear, no spell haste from it.

We need spells that land that is not godlike.

I have been a necro for 5 years on the hardest server. I want my class to be worth a damn. Right now its not.
PvP is broken, that's a whole nother monster, but let me get out my violin for you.

BTW, how do you make it across the street without getting hit by a car? It seems like you only look at half the information you're arguing all the time.

Hangman Gallows

08-04-2006, 07:04 PM

You are retarded, that is not part of our necro set of anguish gear

Hangman Gallows

08-04-2006, 07:05 PM

Yes i do ignore all the stupid shit you post that is not worth a shit

Maeryn

08-04-2006, 07:10 PM

why do you need it to be on the armor? it's in the zone, what difference does it make? DPoB doesn't even have detrimental spell haste on the caster armor. i don't know if any armor sets before anguish did, but like, why does it HAVE to be on the armor?

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 4 2006, 01:42 PM
I had full anguish gear, no spell haste from it.

You weren't crying your heart out about a dot extension..hanvars belt is "necro gear"?

Mana preservation..the AMV neck isn't necro gear.

What it sounds like to me is..you couldn't kill OMM, so you're complaining that those effects aren't available. It's on OMM's ring, and vish's off-hand. One is IN ANGUISH(where you're fully geared!) and one is off an anguish-level encounter(vish..incase you missed that again).

IF your guild didn't fold up and go home, you'd also be able to get that same effect off daosheen. spell haste! (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=48273)

Orr since mask clicks are too tough, you could probably forget about crystals..but SoE thought of that too! Now, you could always go smack Gnarlibramble and get more spell haste (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=48075)

Brahman

08-04-2006, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 4 2006, 02:04 PM
You are retarded, that is not part of our necro set of anguish gear
all those things have been addressed specifically by the devs.

necro's are not getting spell haste on a silver plater anymore specifically because of the changes to dots. Although i would say to jeb putting the only necro usable spell haste item on OMM is pretty shitty. That is going to be available to a very small minority of players, having just busted into CoA recently myself, and as an officer i can say its pretty suspect if working on OMM is going to be worth the time now that he isn't the endgame. My guild will prolly do it, but more for politics then actual game reasons.

A. they are not really needed any more
B. all their cast times are 3 seconds, getting them down to ~2 would be over powering

I don't read the damn SOE boards all that offten at all and ya knwo what? I have read the damn dev responses to almost every last thing you just mentioned.

Mind Flay being sug a shitty upgrade? Cause it was EXTREAMLY over powered back when it came out.

Umm... didn't we just get a new lich graphic?

PvP indeed its busted frankly i think tahts your only solid complaint.

Mobs that you have to pray lifetap lands? I'm still muddling through some of the mobs in CoA as my guilds only been in there for a few weeks now, but from what i have seen every single one of them has at least one dot line that'll land just fine and dandy. From what i have heard we don't really have the problems with this as badly as we used to in the content above CoA.

the CoA BP? ANYONE that looked into that knows that ours was a bit much. Yeah the devs took way to long with it but oh well.

Brahman

08-04-2006, 07:28 PM

also...

jeb pointing out events other then vish is pretty well BS anyways as indeed it should be available in each expansion.

I disagree with it being on OMM as good enough, but thats where the devs put it so obviously they don't want it being something everyone has. I can live with that.

najiwench

08-04-2006, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 4 2006, 06:02 PM
No I think the devs gave it alot of thought actually, obviously you don't like to read the entirety of posts. Everyone wants improvements and upgrades, but you want to be a god, the devs and most everyone else want balance. There'll be no pleasing you no matter who the CC is.

If you want everything to be handed to you on a silver platter go play WoW or EQ2. (no offense to Fel or Naji)
well, to be honest, things aren't handed to us on a silver platter i eq2, it is simply more oriented toward causal non-raiding players.

it would definately not be the game for somebody who has no life outside of eq who has 20+ hours a day to spend raiding and comparing e-penix (no offense *wink*)

anyways, what i bolded is the absolute truth..sounds like hangman wants necros to have everything all the other classes have and more...sorry, the game doesn't work that way..there are things necros should have and things that if they had it they would be the only class used in the game, because they would be so overpowered nobody else would want to participate.

najiwench

08-04-2006, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 4 2006, 06:42 PM
I want my class to be worth a damn. Right now its not.
then you're not playing it right

Jebasiz

08-04-2006, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 4 2006, 02:28 PM
also...

jeb pointing out events other then vish is pretty well BS anyways as indeed it should be available in each expansion.

I disagree with it being on OMM as good enough, but thats where the devs put it so obviously they don't want it being something everyone has. I can live with that.
You do realize that OOM is the only encounter of any difficulty at all in anguish right?

Why does every effect have to drop off a mob that everyone and their brother(or sister) can kill in a few tries(if not first try)? Simply because it's a reward off a difficult encounter doesn't make it invalid. Inconvenient maybe, but don't pretend it's not there because you're not willing to commit yourself to learning the sole difficult encounter there.

Schaeffer

08-04-2006, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by najiwench+Aug 4 2006, 03:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Aug 4 2006, 03:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>it would definately not be the game for somebody who has no life outside of eq who has 20+ hours a day to spend raiding and comparing e-penix (no offense *wink*)[/b]

Yeah, I'm not doing that around you, likely to get smipped off =P

Originally posted by Naji@
<!--QuoteBegin-Whiny Bitch

I want my class to be worth a damn. Right now its not.
then you're not playing it right [/quote]

Well put!

Brahman

08-04-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Aug 4 2006, 02:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Aug 4 2006, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 4 2006, 02:28 PM
also...

jeb pointing out events other then vish is pretty well BS anyways as indeed it should be available in each expansion.

I disagree with it being on OMM as good enough, but thats where the devs put it so obviously they don't want it being something everyone has. I can live with that.
You do realize that OOM is the only encounter of any difficulty at all in anguish right?

Why does every effect have to drop off a mob that everyone and their brother(or sister) can kill in a few tries(if not first try)? Simply because it's a reward off a difficult encounter doesn't make it invalid. Inconvenient maybe, but don't pretend it's not there because you're not willing to commit yourself to learning the sole difficult encounter there.[/b]

read much?

<!--QuoteBegin-Brahman
necro's are not getting spell haste on a silver plater anymore specifically because of the changes to dots. Although i would say to jeb putting the only necro usable spell haste item on OMM is pretty shitty. That is going to be available to a very small minority of players, having just busted into CoA recently myself, and as an officer i can say its pretty suspect if working on OMM is going to be worth the time now that he isn't the endgame. My guild will prolly do it, but more for politics then actual game reasons.[/quote]

The reason I say it hardly counts is because its old content, and for a non-progression mob it is generally more worthwhile, at this point, to work on something else then a pure loot mob that will take the amount of time to beat that this event does. Both in terms of fight duration and the learning curve.

Xislaben

08-04-2006, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Aug 4 2006, 07:36 PM
You do realize that OOM is the only encounter of any difficulty at all in anguish right?

I think most guilds take some time farming in CoA before they can beat jelvan and unlock amv. But yeah OMM is harder than the other CoA encoutners by orders of magnitude.

I don't know about farming OMM. The duration of the encounter and the randomness of some aspects of it coupled with people going ld or lagging or stun/silence+gaze or a corpse getting gazed etc and the availability of other and better loot now makes the value of the encounter questionable. There are guilds who do it though.

As for spell haste, tacvi neck quest or trib AH5 for dots, bazu aug from shyra, if you can get into coa you cna kill her with ease.

Xelgadis

08-05-2006, 02:20 AM

I wore the Assistant Researcher's Symbol (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=67625) through most of Darkhollow, even though I had aquired (and still wear) the Mata ring afterward.

The fact that the only necro-usable detrimental spell haste, from Anguish, drops from Overlord Mata Muram is rather lowball. Yes, he is the most difficult event in the zone (more for the randomness than anything else), and he is the last event in the expansion, so it would make sense that the most desirable loot should come from him. However, this isn't the case. If it were the case, you'd see other highly desirable items from the zone be strictly in his loot table- examples: Ring of the Beast (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=47292), Hanvar's Hoop (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=47286), Mask of Lament (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=47300), etc.

Originally posted by Brahman
The reason I say it hardly counts is because its old content, and for a non-progression mob it is generally more worthwhile, at this point, to work on something else then a pure loot mob that will take the amount of time to beat that this event does. Both in terms of fight duration and the learning curve.
Quoted for truth. The event is such that there has yet to be another in the game to remotely match the scale that it's on. And, at this point, there's really little reason to do him, other than to say you've put him down. Better weapons drop from easier mobs, the same clicks can be aquired from easier mobs, the same foci can be aquired from easier mobs.

The underlying issue here isn't content, it's itemization. Most people should know, by now, that you'd have better luck arguing with a brick wall than you would arguing with Zajeer.

---------------------------------------------------

Hangman, your wants for the class remind me of the Christmas lists I'd give to my parents when was around 10 years old- I wanted damn near everything. Guess what, you're not going to get everything, nor is what you get going to be exactly as you want it to be- welcome to real life. EverQuest is played by real people and the designers/developers who update/maintain the game are also real people, so don't expect to get everything you want.

Hangman Gallows

08-05-2006, 05:31 AM

The problem I had with it is that the Qvic gear had it for all the int casting classes on the arms and Enc and Wiz get it on thier shoes. While mages and necros are stuck with a pet focus effect. Spell haste is way more important than a pet focus effect.

Xelgadis

08-05-2006, 10:44 AM

When doing "quested" class-specific armor sets, it makes sense to put the pet foci on a piece of gear for the pet classes. Disregarding drop rate altogether, the 3-class "pet focus" items; such as Vermilion Batfur Sash (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=83591), Gemstone of Dark Flame (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=69106), Symbol of Ancient Summoning (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=20508), Ruby Ring of Embellishment (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=68672), Zulaqua's Cloak (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=70704), etc. typically reach rot status far sooner than a drop for a quested piece of class-specific armor would. From an itemization standpoint, regarding pet foci, it makes sense to do it the way they are.

Whether or not an individual (in this case, you, Hangman) likes, or even wants, a pet focus- the fact remains that necromancers are one of the 3 main pet classes. As such, itemization is going to be tailored in such a way to make the foci equally accessable (for the most part) to all 3 classes. If it can be done in such a way as to prolong the life of an item before it starts rotting on every clear, so much the better.

danoob

08-08-2006, 03:36 AM

While burning up the boards let me reply to this one as well. Didnt read all 12 pages and have no inclination to do so.

I'm sure there have been VERY GOOD reasons stated to remove saurunman from being class correspondant.

However like all politicians, which, lets face it, the class correspondant is in reality, you will not agree with all his decisions. Sauruman does a thankless job. And imho some of his opinions suck balls.

Sweaty balls at that.

Fungus covered hairy nut sack balls at that.

But if people are so convinced they can do a better job than him feel free to submit your name as well, so you can be ignored and called a sweaty cock sucker.

Noone ever agrees with anyone 100% of the time. The only way to get your opinion to the devs without fail is to become the class correspondant yourself. So instead of complaining about saurumans taste in balls we should open a nomination thread to draft our next correspondant.

And on a side note, saurman.. you suck!!! But I dont want the job.

*edit* Hammered so this probably makes little sense.

To summerize, While we may disagree with many of saurumans posts, if you feel you can do a better job feel free to apply for the position.. otherwise stfu

Aryse Andenter

08-08-2006, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by danoob@Aug 8 2006, 03:36 AM

But if people are so convinced they can do a better job than him feel free to submit your name as well, so you can be ignored and called a sweaty cock sucker.

Noone ever agrees with anyone 100% of the time. The only way to get your opinion to the devs without fail is to become the class correspondant yourself. So instead of complaining about saurumans taste in balls we should open a nomination thread to draft our next correspondant.

And on a side note, saurman.. you suck!!! But I dont want the job.
Actually, quite a few people either did put their name in for CC last time it was open or would happily do so if it came open now. However, we have to figure out how to get him removed first, as that is not up to us but to Kytherea. So, go ahead and come up with some ways to convince her, and then find a way to convince her to pick whoever we nominate since usually she picks who she wants for CC no matter what the community says.

danoob

08-08-2006, 03:54 AM

Heh well in that case its blatent corruption.. and umm down with sauruman...

Seriously though was just trying to defend what seems like a shit for my efforts job (from my perspective)..

Nothing anyone can do in that case if your assertations are correct ;(

Except quit.. and im not there quite yet

........................................

Aryse Andenter

08-08-2006, 04:32 AM

I don't really expect there to be much result from efforts with this job, in that sense it is indeed a shit for efforts gig. However, I do expect the effort to be in the right direction... and I do expect the CC to not fight against the effort of other necros, both of which Sauruman has had problems with.

Jebasiz

08-09-2006, 12:44 PM

Once again, this isn't a nominated or elected position. Sauruman was appointed. It's a safe bet Kytherea would appoint another necro that SHE wants as CC if Sauruman should be removed or step down.

Discussing who the CC should be or who the community would like it to be is rather pointless. I haven't seen or heard of anything damaging yet. Perhaps he'll show more discretion this time around. Although there were a few utterly stupid posts by necromancers on another board *somewhere* else, they weren't made by him.

brinlar

08-09-2006, 01:13 PM

And is he really all that bad. I've read the posts and know he sucks but he could be worse, he could be frodlin. Why not try and work with sauruman instead of against him and try to get things acco,plished that way. The next person we get could be a lot worse.

Vanadinaa

08-09-2006, 08:04 PM

Ok I've decided to share my oppinions. Don't you all feel so lucky lol. Sauruman as our CC hasn't done the greatest job thus far. Let's face it in his attempts at CC he's done more harm than good. And i've expressed that before. I've even talked to the guy in tells a couple times. He wants to help. Atleast thats what he tells me. He wants the approval of the community he represents. Obviously he isnt getting it because well.. of the way he's doing things. IMHO it'd be nice to have a more compitant CC but.. well we can't always get what we want. We just need to work with what we got. I havent talked to the guy since a few weeks after PoR went live but i tried to help him out. Maybe he's learned from his mistakes maybe not but honestly what can we do? Either try to help the guy and do your part in beta testing and talk to him or sit back and bitch? Is either gonna help? Probably not judging from past experiences but which has a chance of being constructive?

By the way Aryse was right. I beta'd PoR as well and seen what happened. And yes Sauruman doesnt always take the advice he's given. And he does need to own up and accept what's been done although if he did would that change anyones feelings on him? Or would that only fuel the fire? I know that he plays a necro i know he raids as his necro so chances are if it's not his main its a duel main so he really can't want the nerfs to happen any more than we do.

Now Jeb has made some very valid points in this thread. We need to "make him our puppet." Work with the man. Yes Aryse i know some people have tried but we just need to keep trying. Somethings gotta get through eventually. And now people when we do this lets not send him tells saying "You need to stfu and listen and do this." talk to him nicely and it might go over better.

Were all frusterated and angry. None of us want to see a nerf bat flyin at us. But although it might make us feel better bitching really isnt gonna help so much.

Brahman

08-09-2006, 08:12 PM

he isn't even trying to let us know whats going on anymore...

its hard to try to work with someone that isn't even letting us know a damn thing.

Zaxlothon

08-09-2006, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Vanadinaa@Aug 9 2006, 08:04 PM
None of us want to see a nerf bat flyin at us.
I disagree, I think some of us do want to be nerfed. Not going to name names at this time, but I will when the time is ripe.

Schaeffer

08-09-2006, 08:29 PM

I want Xelgadis to be nerfed...

That's all ;)

Vanadinaa

08-09-2006, 09:34 PM

lol well anyone that does want us nerfed lets get the names and string'em up! Also i've seen him offer some information i'm sure right now he's fairly busy in beta but i doubt impossible to get a hold of. I gotta give the guy credit for still showing up though i know if i were in his shoes with the world of necros wanting me taken out i'd prolly hide lol or.. be a total ass.. He's screwed up but let's do what we can to keep it from happening this time right?

Brahman

08-09-2006, 10:31 PM

he quit posting what was going on here about a month before beta started...

Hangman Gallows

08-09-2006, 11:24 PM

He is too busy bending over for SOE to post here anymore.

Schaeffer

08-10-2006, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Hangmyself
He is too busy bending over for SOE to post here anymore.

No, he's probably sick of jerkoffs like you doing nothing but bitch. Why should he post here to inform the likes of you if he is in no danger of losing his position?

He still talks to the people who are willing to work with him in game and via PM's.

All you accomplished by your fucking crying is getting yourself kept out of the loop.

Good Job Sparky!

Aryse Andenter

08-10-2006, 03:20 AM

So Schaeffer, why hasn't he posted any of his weekly questions or responses here? Or any discussion about the questions he'll ask?

Xislaben

08-10-2006, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Aug 10 2006, 03:20 AM
So Schaeffer, why hasn't he posted any of his weekly questions or responses here? Or any discussion about the questions he'll ask?
SOE is too busy nerfing necros in the next expansion to be answering pesky questions anyways... :(

Schaeffer

08-10-2006, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Aug 9 2006, 11:20 PM
So Schaeffer, why hasn't he posted any of his weekly questions or responses here? Or any discussion about the questions he'll ask?
Probably because all he gets from posting here is a thread full of insults, like I said in my previous posts...

Would you bother posting if all people did was bitch at you regardless if you were trying to be productive or not? No you're not Brahman so you wouldn't.

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 05:12 AM

As you have said in your post he is in no danger of losing his job. So why is he not posting here. Becuase he is afraid of what people say about him on the internet? If he is that musch of a pussy then i'm shocked that he hasnt shot himself in head.

sauruman

08-10-2006, 05:21 AM

I've got answers to the last few questions of the week. However, I was asked not to post the answer, as they involve beta (I also didn't post the question anywhere publically though, b/c I anticipated this issue). Its terrific news but if your reading beta forums you probably have an idea of what issues those are.
A lot of my attention will be on beta testing for a while, which isn't really done inside the question format for the above reason. Remember to post your question ideas in the thread in this forum however if you have any cool ideas.

FCseven

08-10-2006, 05:56 AM

There is a necro named flacked who brings way too much dev attention to some of our abilities,I would be more worried about him then saura atm.How hard is it learn discretion these days,some necros need to keep their damn mouths closed about certin things rather then bragging/ complaining to devs and the entire EQ population about us.And sauruman, you need to keep your voice for the comminity louder then an admited MQ user (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=3081&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vxed&&start=15)

Aryse Andenter

08-10-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by sauruman@Aug 10 2006, 05:21 AM
I've got answers to the last few questions of the week. However, I was asked not to post the answer, as they involve beta (I also didn't post the question anywhere publically though, b/c I anticipated this issue). Its terrific news but if your reading beta forums you probably have an idea of what issues those are.
A lot of my attention will be on beta testing for a while, which isn't really done inside the question format for the above reason. Remember to post your question ideas in the thread in this forum however if you have any cool ideas.
This explains why you didn't post any here? Since the initial ones weren't regarding beta?
And this seems rather too much like going off on your own personal agenda. Questions that we don't even know what you are asking? That's really a great 'community' thing. /sigh

I see lots of question ideas in the stickied thread that weren't used. I see lots of top ten list items that could have been questions that weren't used... and I see a weekly question about aggro (that I cross posted here... since you didn't share that one with us). How was aggro reduction enough of a community concern to get to be a weekly question?!! You've got to be kidding me!

You know, it wasn't even Sauruman who even told us about the weekly format instead of the top ten list. That was Xislaben who came and asked about it.

Jebasiz

08-10-2006, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Aug 10 2006, 06:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Aug 10 2006, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by sauruman@Aug 10 2006, 05:21 AM
I've got answers to the last few questions of the week. However, I was asked not to post the answer, as they involve beta (I also didn't post the question anywhere publically though, b/c I anticipated this issue). Its terrific news but if your reading beta forums you probably have an idea of what issues those are.
A lot of my attention will be on beta testing for a while, which isn't really done inside the question format for the above reason. Remember to post your question ideas in the thread in this forum however if you have any cool ideas.
This explains why you didn't post any here? Since the initial ones weren't regarding beta?
And this seems rather too much like going off on your own personal agenda. Questions that we don't even know what you are asking? That's really a great 'community' thing. /sigh

I see lots of question ideas in the stickied thread that weren't used. I see lots of top ten list items that could have been questions that weren't used... and I see a weekly question about aggro (that I cross posted here... since you didn't share that one with us). How was aggro reduction enough of a community concern to get to be a weekly question?!! You've got to be kidding me!

You know, it wasn't even Sauruman who even told us about the weekly format instead of the top ten list. That was Xislaben who came and asked about it. [/b]
How can you fault someone for having (what you percieve as) a personal agenda when you have one yourself? Every single post that you've made here has been trying to descredit him and/or get him removed.

Given that, I wouldn't come here and post shit for your benefit either. You're a moderator here. Stop lobbying/bitching for his removal, it's gotten you(and us) nowhere.

<!--QuoteBegin- my loving parents (and many others before them)

God Grant me the Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can, and the Wisdom to Know the Difference.

[/quote]

Perhaps you should do yourself a favor and look that shit up.

Xelgadis

08-10-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Aug 10 2006, 07:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Aug 10 2006, 07:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Aug 10 2006, 06:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Aug 10 2006, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-sauruman@Aug 10 2006, 05:21 AM
I've got answers to the last few questions of the week. However, I was asked not to post the answer, as they involve beta (I also didn't post the question anywhere publically though, b/c I anticipated this issue). Its terrific news but if your reading beta forums you probably have an idea of what issues those are.
A lot of my attention will be on beta testing for a while, which isn't really done inside the question format for the above reason. Remember to post your question ideas in the thread in this forum however if you have any cool ideas.
This explains why you didn't post any here? Since the initial ones weren't regarding beta?
And this seems rather too much like going off on your own personal agenda. Questions that we don't even know what you are asking? That's really a great 'community' thing. /sigh

I see lots of question ideas in the stickied thread that weren't used. I see lots of top ten list items that could have been questions that weren't used... and I see a weekly question about aggro (that I cross posted here... since you didn't share that one with us). How was aggro reduction enough of a community concern to get to be a weekly question?!! You've got to be kidding me!

You know, it wasn't even Sauruman who even told us about the weekly format instead of the top ten list. That was Xislaben who came and asked about it. [/b]
How can you fault someone for having (what you percieve as) a personal agenda when you have one yourself? Every single post that you've made here has been trying to descredit him and/or get him removed.

Given that, I wouldn't come here and post shit for your benefit either. You're a moderator here. Stop lobbying/bitching for his removal, it's gotten you(and us) nowhere.

<!--QuoteBegin- my loving parents (and many others before them)

God Grant me the Serenity to Accept the things I cannot change, Courage to Change the things I can, and the Wisdom to Know the Difference.

[/quote]

Perhaps you should do yourself a favor and look that shit up. [/b][/quote]
Quoted Jeb, because he's absolutely right.

If I were to make a comparison, Aryse, your own attitude and personal agenda remind me very strongly of Frodlin. Constantly attacking Sauruman is accomplishing precicely dick, so really, what's the point of continuing this tirade?

I've said some choice things in the past, but I also generally don't hold eternal grudges with people simply because I had a few unsatisfactory experiences. People are bitching about his general lack of communication with the community; would anyone else, if they were in his shoes, want to deal with the pack of jackals that the community has become? I sure as shit wouldn't, I'd give the mushroom treatment to the whole lot.

The position is about communication, there's no power associted with it, yet several people seem to think that they'll break heads amongst the developers and achieve all sorts of wonderful and innovative things for the class. Things don't work that way, I'm sorry to say- you must play by the rules if you wish to play the game. The community is creating its own breakdown in communication, stop trying to excommunicate Sauruman, and work with him.

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 04:29 PM

You are a moron sir. The fact is no one could be as retarded as him and do the shit he does. Anyone could do better, because they wouldnt go out of the way to get themselves nerfed.

Nadori

08-10-2006, 04:37 PM

I find it funny that when Sauruman says "hey guys there is good news i just cant release it atm and i'm working my hardest in Beta to make changes just like you guys wanted me to" Aryse attacks him because he's not paying enough attention to her bitching and he's not getting things done her way.

Apperently Sauruman needs to quit having a life and a job and stock up on Coffee and Red Bull. Because to please you would be a full time job.

Maeryn

08-10-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 10 2006, 12:29 PM
You are a moron sir. The fact is no one could be as retarded as him and do the shit he does. Anyone could do better, because they wouldnt go out of the way to get themselves nerfed.
Regurgitating this because you're getting old: I think their point, Hangman, is that what you just said makes no difference whatsoever because be it right or wrong, even IF anyone could do a better job, HE is the person the devs have picked to do it, so post hoc, ergo, propter hoc, let's just make the most of it and work with what we have.

Nadori

08-10-2006, 04:44 PM

What we have is not so bad. He has made some mistakes but hes trying very hard and from the sound of things is finally suceeding.

I sure as hell don't envy him his position.

Jebasiz

08-10-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 10 2006, 11:29 AM
You are a moron sir. The fact is no one could be as retarded as him and do the shit he does. Anyone could do better, because they wouldnt go out of the way to get themselves nerfed.
Irony at it's finest.

Perhaps, if you would take a step back and look to see at what you and your "intellectual" posts have accomplished, you'd change the way you went about trying to effect change in such an infantile manner.

ALL you have accomplished is further alienating yourself and our community from our CC. That doesn't make him less effective, it makes US less effective..well that and create a breakdown in communication. Stop jumping up and down trying to convince everyone that you're a fucking idiot(we know this already) and either STFU(prefered) or try to be constructive(I'm pretty sure this is impossible..but failing miserably at your goal never seems to stop you from trying over and over and over again) within the channels SoE has provided you.

You calling someone else a moron(whoever it was) is absolute hilarity.

Vanadinaa

08-10-2006, 05:06 PM

IMO the man is trying. We've all made mistakes at one point or the other right? Do we learn from them? Usually. Let's just see what happens. For all anyone knows he could be doing a great job. Sometimes people make mistakes dont hold it on them for the rest of their life. If he says he has good news he can't tell us yet than that means theres probably something good coming our way. NDA keeps peoples hands tied sometimes.

GnekroeGnomicon

08-10-2006, 06:22 PM

ENOUGH!

Attention gotten. Sorry, my apologies.

Sauruman has put up with a lot of crap from the Necro community and the majority of it has been very unfair. Sauruman is doing a thankless job and what people don't realize is that no matter the time and hours he puts in, the likelihood of him accomplishing anything good is rather small. Where as now, instead of SOE, he becomes the focus of the community's disappointment.

NO MATTER WHAT, Sauruman's position is just a place for SOE to pass the blame. HE is set up to fail if SOE fails in the community's eyes.

WHAT we need to do now as a community is to stop all of this bullshit finger pointing, and work with Sauruman now more than ever. Give him the support of the community, work with him to project the community's desires.

BUT we need to understand that when something doesn't get through, or something goes poorly, the class correspondant has almost zero (0) none ability to really have changed it for better or worse.

We need to move beyond this as a community. It can't be Sauruman screwed us here or there, we need to move beyond all of this petty bullshit and work together to make sure we don't get totally fucked in the coming expansions. THE ONLY way to do that is work with our class correspondant and do the best jobs that he and teh community can do.

Everything else is out of our (the community and correspondants) hands.

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 06:25 PM

All I have to say to that is everyone who posted inbetween my last posts are too simple minded to know that if he did nothing for necros ever again it would be much better than what he has been doing. Right now what is the difference if he did nothing and SOE did what they liked? The difference is that noone would be going to SOE and saying "Hey, you messed up on this item, its way too over powered. Please remove it or nerf it till its totally useless."

I am smart enough to know that i'd rather have no one doing his job rather than having him. He has never corrected or gotten anything for us, only has taken away from us. Name just one thing that he has ever gotten us besides nerfed?

Nadori

08-10-2006, 06:28 PM

You sir suffer from selective reading. I give up trying to reason with you.

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 06:34 PM

So far all i've read is we need to help him more becuase we are stuck with him and make do with an ignoramous who doesnt do anything and has no real power. He does his best even when is complaining about how we need to be nerfed so tell him what you want so h can make sure that you never get it, just dont tell him what you like or he will get it nerfed for you.

Excuse me if I think its BS.

Vanadinaa

08-10-2006, 06:37 PM

some people just need helmets i'm tellin ya

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 06:48 PM

I'm sure his good news has something to do with this idea he had. And its good news for whom? Im thinking its SOE.

"Being that necromancers are likable beings;
Is it possible to end the long period of solitude for our parsing damage? Can SOE add a function where you turn "on" a filter and dot damage appears? This would make it possible for others to see that necromancers like any other class have fights where we perform quite terribly, and others where we perform at a reasonable level. The only way in the communities mind to change this long-standing class warfare between necromancers and the envious is to bring all that raw data into the public domain for examination. This would help curtail premature nerfs such as the recent robe one by allowing a quanitative assessment of necromancer dps instead of vague unresearched inferences."

Arguements for this change:
- We would no longer be the subject of arbitrary nerfs in theory... When the devs say a statistic thats completely false to support a nerf, we can respond by, "parse me next raid you punk"
- It would be possible to catch anyone slacking on raids, which is a benefit for me as someone who watches for these things at raids
- There are some fights where we do SHIT dps, and the only way to prove that is something radical like this."

GnekroeGnomicon

08-10-2006, 06:49 PM

So far all i've read is we need to help him more becuase we are stuck with himAND WE ARE STUCK WITH HIM. Get over it. Either he has to quit or SOE has to choose a new correspondant. What you feel about him doesn't count for 2 cents. Obviously, he is not going to quit because he has put up with all this bullshit from the community for serveral months now. So you may as well make the best of the situation, whether you like it or not. You don't have a choice.

Oh wait, you do have a choice. You can leave. But I doubt even Sauruman would want you to do that.

and make do with an ignoramous who doesnt do anything and has no real power. He does his best even when is complaining about how we need to be nerfed so tell him what you want so h can make sure that you never get it, just dont tell him what you like or he will get it nerfed for you.Get over yourself. Everybody needs to just get the f' over themselves. He is doing a lot behind the scenes with communication with the devs, as much as a class correspondant can. SOE will only let him truly affect what they already want to change.

Excuse me if I think its BS.Re-read my first paragraph.

Vanadinaa

08-10-2006, 07:00 PM

couldnt have put it any better myself

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 07:04 PM

Then you are saying that SOE fully intended to give shamans and druids rez? It wasnt that they were yelling for it for years? They also got much better heals including a 75% heal just becuase it was all planned?

If you believe that then there is no hope for you. For SOE, the squeeky wheel gets the greese and not only is our wheel not squeeking, its saying we have too much greese please remove some.

Schaeffer

08-10-2006, 07:16 PM

You want all necros to be as powerful as GM's you don't want balance you want to be a GM, somebody link him an app cause I'm done talking to the kid in a candystore who wants one of everything,

sauruman

08-10-2006, 07:21 PM

You know, it wasn't even Sauruman who even told us about the weekly format instead of the top ten list. That was Xislaben who came and asked about it.

In that instance, it was a secretive new format we were trying. Kytherea specifically asked us to give a little bit of time for her to collect some initial answers before we went to the boards and posted it everywhere. Xislaben just caught it as it hit the mainstream boards initially, and I came right out that day and explained the whole new idea. Its not a perfect new format, but its very candid and its getting us somewhere instead of nowhere.

I'm sure his good news has something to do with this idea he had. And its good news for whom? Im thinking its SOE.

"Being that necromancers are likable beings;
Is it possible to end the long period of solitude for our parsing damage? Can SOE add a function where you turn "on" a filter and dot damage appears? This would make it possible for others to see that necromancers like any other class have fights where we perform quite terribly, and others where we perform at a reasonable level. The only way in the communities mind to change this long-standing class warfare between necromancers and the envious is to bring all that raw data into the public domain for examination. This would help curtail premature nerfs such as the recent robe one by allowing a quanitative assessment of necromancer dps instead of vague unresearched inferences."

Arguements for this change:
- We would no longer be the subject of arbitrary nerfs in theory... When the devs say a statistic thats completely false to support a nerf, we can respond by, "parse me next raid you punk"
- It would be possible to catch anyone slacking on raids, which is a benefit for me as someone who watches for these things at raids
- There are some fights where we do SHIT dps, and the only way to prove that is something radical like this."

--------------------

Nope, read that thread I think I responded pretty adequetely there on that issue, and that I will fight off any attempt to change the current system since that is the will of the community. The questions I got answers to recently are the top two issues for the necromancer community. The developers posted on the beta boards their answers as well, so it shouldn't be any kind of secret.
I don't like being secretive, but any necro in this community who is testing beta content is held to the same standard.

Oh wait, you do have a choice. You can leave. But I doubt even Sauruman would want you to do that.

Correct.

Hangman Gallows

08-10-2006, 07:36 PM

You came up with that idea and posted it. Next you will come up with something worse.

I will stay or go as I will. I don't care if you dont want me there or not.

And I dont want one of everything. I want one thing. The resignation of Sauruman.

Nadori

08-10-2006, 08:21 PM

Well too bad!

He's here to stay as we want him to.

Brahman

08-10-2006, 08:24 PM

If I were to make a comparison, Aryse, your own attitude and personal agenda remind me very strongly of Frodlin. Constantly attacking Sauruman is accomplishing precicely dick, so really, what's the point of continuing this tirade?

Aryse having a personal aggenda and going way overboard in her attacks on someone... NEVER!!!!

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 12:00 AM

The Constant Response from Pro-Sauraman people is 'Work with Him, Work with Him'

But That's been tried, and it doesn't work because he doesn't listen to what you tell him or in many cases doesn't understand it.

So being Anti-Sauraman eventually comes off as 'Harping on it' because he continues to do the things that people complain of initially.

So You can either just give up and forget about it, or atleast try to make it better in some way.

I don't think he can actually be removed, which is largely why many have asked for a resignation, not a forced removal.

I'm personally only asking that he not post anything that might derail other people from getting a point accross during this round of Beta.
His posts thus far in Beta forums have been fairly limited and I hope that can continue when the new spells are released.

As for posting in various "communities" I could care less, And as for having a personal Agenda, I would expect everyone to have one... the complaint I've generally had in that area is that I'm not sure what his is and that I don't think he argues it effectively.

It's Clear from things I post that my Agenda is generally an increase in our DPS, Spell Resists and Lifetaps over anything Utility... I generally post things to attempt to convince Devs to Achieve that Goal.

Some other people may be requesting things like Pet models, Utility spells etc... and will generally post in a manner designed to achieve those goals. While I personally prefer mine, I still understand theirs, despite disagreeing that it is best for all necros.

But with Sauraman's style, I can't determine what the Agenda is, and often find that he spends a lot of effort convincing US that the Devs are right. While I'm sure he's not doing that on purpose, it does turn the conversation in a direction that I found particularily disturbing last Beta.

Anyone who does know me in game can probably attest to the fact I don't argue in a personal manner much because I really don't think of you people as people to begin with...I tend to argue for a Thing I want, even if I know some (or all) of what I'm saying isn't true.

Making a Solid Argument for something Can get you that thing. It's worked in many cases before...Good co-ordinated coherent points Got us the 'Grave Pact' Lich in the last expansion...which I thought was pretty good. But Poor arguing got us Mind Flay instead of a DPS increasing spell and got us a Trap I don't think anyone uses.

In these cases I think we all saw that the Dev was willing to change his designs based on feedback, since none of the 3 spells had the design the Dev originally put it.

But there are pitfalls to look out for which is something I've tried to explain not just to Sauruman, but many people over the years.

1) Don't Under-Ask for something - We got the Lich, it does 72 mana/tick...Not bad I agree...But some people actually SAID that 72 was fine while some asked for 75 and 80. My Point is Generally 'Why Not Ask?' You might Not Get it...but if you Don't ask, you won't get it either. But you Might Get it...so why not? People who chime in with '72 is fine, stop being greedy' serve no purpose.

2) Don't Request Something if it would suck Half-Way - People asked for a Better Mind Flay, one that would do 150/tick..that would have been not terrible...but instead we got one that did 85/tick (This was later made to be 90) A lot of people who originally asked for the Mind Flay at 150/tick didn't want one at 90/tick because it wasn't good enough...but it was unreasonable to think we would actually get the one requested. So before you ask for something New, always ask yourself 'Would I be happy with 50% of what I'm asking for?' because that's often what you'll get.
Continuing with the Lich example, if I ASK for 80/tick and get 72/tick, i'm probably happy...but I asked for a 500/tick Chromatic DoT and got a 250/tick DoT then I'm probably not happy. This can be individual...some people may be happy with something I wouldn't be but please at least THINK before requesting it.

3) Don't convince US of anything on Beta - If I say some spell is Lower DPS than it actually is, and won't help us that much and you can afford to increase it 5% more...I KNOW I'm Full of Shit. Tell me in a PM, Tell me on Necrotalk or In Game...don't post it in the thread to a Dev. They can't possibly analyze everything, they're gonna be putting in like 300 new spells and discs. If a Necro claims a spell needs a better Neg resist check...don't argue it doesn't. To Me this is Common Sense, but everytime someone does stuff like that.

Do NOT be the Sell-Out. Do Not be that Friend who co-operates with the police and gets you thrown in the drunk tank... Do Not be that guy who tells the girls that there actually is film in the camera...Do Not be the guy who reminds the teacher about that pop quiz.

That's all I ever care about, and unfortunately Sauraman has been that guy in the past. He's been behaved so far in beta this time and I hope that keeps up.

Schaeffer

08-11-2006, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Tryal Anderror@Aug 10 2006, 08:00 PM
Anyone who does know me in game can probably attest to the fact I don't argue in a personal manner much because I really don't think of you people as people to begin with...
<3 U 2 Tryal

najiwench

08-11-2006, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Aug 10 2006, 06:22 PM
NO MATTER WHAT, Sauruman's position is just a place for SOE to pass the blame. HE is set up to fail if SOE fails in the community's eyes.
qft

and even if he does get some kind of success..it won't ever ever ever be enough. i guarantee it

najiwench

08-11-2006, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 10 2006, 06:25 PM
All I have to say to that is everyone who posted inbetween my last posts are too simple minded to know that if he did nothing for necros ever again it would be much better than what he has been doing. Right now what is the difference if he did nothing and SOE did what they liked? The difference is that noone would be going to SOE and saying "Hey, you messed up on this item, its way too over powered. Please remove it or nerf it till its totally useless."

I am smart enough to know that i'd rather have no one doing his job rather than having him. He has never corrected or gotten anything for us, only has taken away from us. Name just one thing that he has ever gotten us besides nerfed?
and you have no proof that he, personally and single handedly, got anything nerfed...

because he didn't

odds are, the devs were working on that long before anything sauruman posted. i have zero confidence in the cc's having any real ability at all besides being a diversion from the shit being flung towards soe

Vanadinaa

08-11-2006, 12:59 AM

so we should raise hell with SOE! /nod

najiwench

08-11-2006, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by Vanadinaa@Aug 11 2006, 12:59 AM
so we should raise hell with SOE! /nod
pretty much...all the cc is, is a funnel, taking all the ideas from the people and funneling them toward soe so soe can get them into the wastebasket more efficiently

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by najiwench@Aug 11 2006, 01:07 AM
pretty much...all the cc is, is a funnel, taking all the ideas from the people and funneling them toward soe so soe can get them into the wastebasket more efficiently
If he actually even did that, that seems fine.

But He tends to take what the Devs say and funnel it towards us.

He doesn't Take our Ideas, He argues against them in front of Devs.

I don't think any of you girls understand the actual complaint here.

sauruman

08-11-2006, 01:27 AM

After some thought I decided to lock this thread down. This isn't something I do lightly, as I believe it will be the first one I've done that too. Its just too meanspirited, and in too many instances its just a direct attack not even based on the issues. If some of the things said in this thread were about any other necromancer in EQ, I would have locked it weeks ago or moved it to another forum. But since I try and keep things as lively and fair and accessible as possible, this decision took me some time to reach.

I thank those who are kind and have supported me by their comments or understanding in the time I have been correspondent. I also thank the critical comments others have posted about me or SOE in this thread or in past threads that weren't hateful or malicious in intent.

This thread will remain locked while in this forum. If a mod would like, feel free to move it to the inferno and then open it back up there, b/c most of the material posted here is relevant to that forum.

If you want to raise a new issue, or elaborate on anything that was said in any of these posts, feel free to start a new thread, PM me on any of the boards I have a handle on, or send me a tell on game or on the beta server.

Schaeffer

08-11-2006, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by sauruman@Aug 10 2006, 09:27 PM
If a mod would like, feel free to move it to the inferno and then open it back up there, b/c most of the material posted here is relevant to that forum.
Done, how else are we gonna let Hangman hang himself...

najiwench

08-11-2006, 01:38 AM

Originally posted by Tryal Anderror+Aug 11 2006, 01:23 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Tryal Anderror @ Aug 11 2006, 01:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Aug 11 2006, 01:07 AM
pretty much...all the cc is, is a funnel, taking all the ideas from the people and funneling them toward soe so soe can get them into the wastebasket more efficiently
If he actually even did that, that seems fine.

But He tends to take what the Devs say and funnel it towards us.

He doesn't Take our Ideas, He argues against them in front of Devs.

I don't think any of you girls understand the actual complaint here. [/b][/quote]
so, you have seen direct conversation between sauruman and the devs?

you have seen him, first hand, argue against necromancers?

Schaeffer

08-11-2006, 01:40 AM

Actually he has, way back on like page 3 he posted it, or aryse did, something like that.

Aryse Andenter

08-11-2006, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by najiwench+Aug 11 2006, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Aug 11 2006, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Tryal Anderror@Aug 11 2006, 01:23 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Aug 11 2006, 01:07 AM
pretty much...all the cc is, is a funnel, taking all the ideas from the people and funneling them toward soe so soe can get them into the wastebasket more efficiently
If he actually even did that, that seems fine.

But He tends to take what the Devs say and funnel it towards us.

He doesn't Take our Ideas, He argues against them in front of Devs.

I don't think any of you girls understand the actual complaint here.
so, you have seen direct conversation between sauruman and the devs?

you have seen him, first hand, argue against necromancers? [/b][/quote]
yes.

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by najiwench@Aug 11 2006, 01:38 AM

you have seen him, first hand, argue against necromancers?
Yes

Whispers Quietly

08-11-2006, 02:46 AM

Ok; looking back on ENTIRE POST; I am like the 4th or 5th to respond. First responders outlayed the entire position between Soe and community....

We Explained entire thing. Now we're on third or fourth circle again.

Legitimately this thread should have been locked down long ago; Oh; I forgot, Moderators can open, as well as close.

I cannot see where that happened.

I have seen 2 out of 3 moderators speak out against the bullshit; Why no lock Down?

Are Schaffer and Gneckroe getting something on the side? More personnal photos of said "pink Panties".

Yeah, thats a rude comment and I apoligize all the way around, BUT; Why hasn't this CRAP been LOCKED DOWN. Aryse uses lock down, why don't you guys?

If you really believe this is crap; LOCK IT DOWN. I never Elected my moderators either, but I do have to post by the rules...........

This is no differant......................................... ..........

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 02:52 AM

No one complained about it, And as far as I've seen, most are only ever locked or moved when someone asks for them to be.

Also, It was in Sauraman's forum where he's a Mod, he could at any time have locked it or moved it and now he did, that's why he was given mod powers in that area... So what's the problem?

najiwench

08-11-2006, 02:55 AM

so..you guys were in the chat, or were witness to the chat, where sauruman told the devs the opposite of what the necromancer community wanted?

are the correspondences between the cc's and the devs that open to public display?

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 02:58 AM

It's on the Beta forums, Yes its open if you're on the Beta boards.

and Yes, other correspondance is open to other correspondents on the CC board, and I was guilded with 2 of them.

GnekroeGnomicon

08-11-2006, 02:59 AM

I have seen 2 out of 3 moderators speak out against the bullshit; Why no lock Down?

Are Schaffer and Gneckroe getting something on the side? More personnal photos of said "pink Panties". There are some discussions unless they are taken so radically off topic that MUST be discussed by this community. It will be an issue until the community can find some happy medium.

I for one have seen a picture, I don't recall the panty color, maybe they were pink (don't actually remember panties at all). Dunno. Don't remember. Her panties are not the issue here though. If they were, this thread probably would be locked by Schaef or myself as it would no longer be relevant to this community.

Also, if you haven't noticed the moderators of this board hold a variety of opinions. We don't share the same philosophies at all times. But we all know the importance of this debate to the necromancer community.

Whispers Quietly

08-11-2006, 03:14 AM

"After some thought I decided to lock this thread down. This isn't something I do lightly, as I believe it will be the first one I've done that too."

Did He forget to lock it down? And how does he have that power I ask Naively...

It's not locked down unless someone opened it back up?.....

Gnekroe. I trust you on this; Whats going on?

Why didn't you also comment where I apoligize for being rude? As I know I was, But I did Illicit an instant response.

Cheap shot me, thats not like you............

Brahman

08-11-2006, 03:20 AM

he is a mod for the one forum.

he locked it.

someone else moved it to the inferno and unlocked it.

you didn't notice its in the inferno now?

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 03:23 AM

It was moved instead of Locked. He can lock in the necro Issues forum because he was given Mod Access to that Forum when he was made Correspondant. It was one of the courtesies extended to him.

Whispers Quietly

08-11-2006, 03:25 AM

Brahman; when I posted that, It was not in Inferno; Finnally it's in it's rightful place.

If it's in Inferno; be my guest, unlock. It is where it belongs....

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 03:31 AM

Yes it was in the inferno when you posted that

Hangman Gallows

08-11-2006, 03:53 AM

The problem is all the pussies running around here.

Hey Tryal how long do you think these people would last on a real server like SZ? Im guessing level 10 max.

None of them seem to see how they are getting fucked in the ass even tho the dick is still in thier rectum.

Tryal Anderror

08-11-2006, 04:14 AM

You're a very Eloquent man =)

Hangman Gallows

08-11-2006, 04:29 AM

Why thankyou

najiwench

08-11-2006, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Aug 11 2006, 03:25 AM
Brahman; when I posted that, It was not in Inferno; Finnally it's in it's rightful place.

If it's in Inferno; be my guest, unlock. It is where it belongs....
wrong

when you posted that, it definately was in the inferno because i saw when it happened..schaef posted after sauruman and moved it, i was actually logged in when it happened..one second it was in the other forum, locked....next second schaef had replied and it was unlocked in this forum...

najiwench

08-11-2006, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 11 2006, 03:53 AM
The problem is all the pussies running around here.

Hey Tryal how long do you think these people would last on a real server like SZ? Im guessing level 10 max.

None of them seem to see how they are getting fucked in the ass even tho the dick is still in thier rectum.
but..see...and pay close attention...

THERE IS NO OPTION, BEYOND NOT PLAYING AT ALL, OR PLAYING A DIFFERENT CLASS

bitching and moaning just makes matters worse..it's like picking at an infected sore...all you are doing is making the pus run deeper and thicker, the scar bigger and angrier and eventually you'll lose your arm to gangrene.

you seem far to dense to understand that, though...so i'm sure you'll keep whining and moaning, even though everyone around you is telling you that you are doing more harm than good to the community, by pushing sauruman farther away and making him potentially more jaded toward the class...

Hangman Gallows

08-11-2006, 05:06 AM

keep baaaing you sheep

Whispers Quietly

08-11-2006, 07:58 AM

What a pile OF SHIT I stepped in.......... Belly up to the bar; my jeans are on my ankles..........

Schaeffer

08-11-2006, 09:31 AM

Holy shit, we can't even agree when the thread was moved...

Yeah I fucking moved it after Sauruman locked it. You can tell the exact time by my post which quotes Sauruman stating "If another mod wants to move this to the inferno and re-open it feel free to do so" and then I said "Done, how else would we let Hangman hang himself". After Sauruman's post it was locked, after my post it was moved and unlocked.

Damn.

Hangman, you want to call us Sheep, but YOU sir are the boy who cried wolf. One day when the wolf really does come and try to eat you, no one is going to listen to your pleas.

Aryse Andenter

08-11-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Aug 11 2006, 03:25 AM
Brahman; when I posted that, It was not in Inferno; Finnally it's in it's rightful place.

If it's in Inferno; be my guest, unlock. It is where it belongs....
What might have been confusing you is that when the thread was moved a link to the moved thread was left in the Class Issues forum (makes it easier for people to find threads that were moved). If you click on the topic there, it automatically takes you to the thread in the Inferno. So you may have been clicking on the topic in the Class Issues forum and not realizing it was redirecting you to the Inferno for the thread?

Maeryn

08-11-2006, 12:41 PM

The only thing I'm a little confused about (besides the fact that I'm now posting in the Inferno, which I swore I would never ever do again, à la Brahman) is what those of you who are opposed to Sauruman want to accomplish here. I'm not trying to be contrary I'm just honestly confused as fuck. They've already said they're not going to remove him, and he's already stated he's not going to resign--if the guy's hung in there through all this my guess is that a million and one personal and/or professional attacks in any forum aren't going to make a bit of difference to him. I know, I know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, yada yada... but like, in this case the people with the oil cans don't seem to care how loud you are. OK that was a shitty analogy, but you get my meaning. This is why those of us who keep saying we 'don't see the point in arguing let's just work with him as best we can' keep saying it--because we don't see any alternative.

So, I'm just askin', why we doin' this? Is it to bully him into keeping quiet? And if so, do you really think that's going to work? All any of us want is what's best for this class, some of us are just going about it differently, and it's not getting us anywhere.