what age is inappropriate

[najiwench]

ok..on another forum we have had different age questions so most people it's pretty obvious who is what age.

then we have the real life pics thread..

so, one member (age 15) was chatting with another member (age 21) and the discussion turned to all kinds of things, and then the 21 year old started talking about being lonely (he's openly gay...no big deal there) and all this stuff..then he starts asking the 15 year old for nude pics...really nagging him about it...and kinda freaked the kid out.

what do you think?

[Rdarkwill]

Not cool.....

8 year olds, Dude.

[Lorie_Lavender]

child molesters never get better, only worse. now is a good time to take him out back and [show him the error of his ways]. i'll volenteer for that duty.


edit: sorry, forgot for a sec its not cool to make death threats online.

[Rijak]

It's a tough call. U.S. law puts it at under 16. Then again, I dated (and slept with) a 14-year-old girl when I was 15 and at the time it didn't seem that out of place. However, if I had been 21 dating a 14-year-old it definitely would have seemed like cradle-robbing.

I think puberty is a pretty obvious cutoff, but after that it not only is about the age of the person, but the relative ages of the two people. I mean, a lot of people would have issues with a 40+ dating a 19-year-old, eventhough it's perfectly legal.

To the specific question, I think 21 to 15 is too big a gap, but calling such a person a child molester immediately might be a bit too harsh as well. It's a case by case thing in my eyes.

[Insalubrity]

I think its pretty sick just because nagging ANYONE for naked pics is inappropriate no matter what theyre age.

[Rijak]

I agree with that, unless it's kidding around with someone.

[Nelran]

Originally posted by Insalubrity@Jul 30 2006, 04:48 PM
I think its pretty sick just because nagging ANYONE for naked pics is inappropriate no matter what theyre age.
Besides, you run the risk of someone giving you this (http://badgas.co.uk/moments/moment_060.jpg) picture. (Note, not safe for mortal eyes)

[najiwench]

heh i had a pic called hotbitch.jpg that i would pass out when guys i didn't know asked for my pic. it was of a guy..a guy to put the rest of the guys on this planet to shame...i daresay, the perfect guy..in ALL ways...if you get my drift...

[Lorie_Lavender]

Then again, I dated (and slept with) a 14-year-old girl when I was 15 and at the time it didn't seem that out of place.

thats no big deal. 1 year difference is fine no matter what the ages. an obvious adult chasing an obvious child is pure evil... and not the good kind either.

[Brahman]

seriously, when did 15 become a child?

within the last 30 years 15 was old enough to be out of your parents house, working on your own.

fucking get over it, give these "kids" some fucking responsability and maybee society will get back on track again.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 03:56 AM
seriously, when did 15 become a child?

within the last 30 years 15 was old enough to be out of your parents house, working on your own.

fucking get over it, give these "kids" some fucking responsability and maybee society will get back on track again.
so brahman thinks it's ok for 21 year olds to solicit naked pics of 15 year olds...nice to know..

15 is not mature enough to make rational sexual decisions, especially if they are being coerced by somebody older than they are. that is why it is a crime for an adult to have sex with a 15 year old in most states. why are they not mature enough? because they would make lousy parents..because they don't practice proper safety, because they live in the "it won't happen to me" mentality. that's how disease spreads..if you don't know.

[Brahman]

all those things happen because thats how people fucking treat "kids".

why is it 30 - 40 years ago a 15 year old could move out of his parents house, get a job, and pay his own bills but now one can't be taught to use a fucking condom or not give out their RL info on the internet?

[Whispers Quietly]

If the 21 year old is an open gay, Obviously he has a handle on hs sexuality. To try and coerce a 15 year old is not only against the law. It is predetorial.

The conversation it sounds like started out innocent enough, soon turned toward something else. At the turn spot in the conversation; The 21 year old made a direct choice. His choice was not only stupid, but in clear violation of federal laws.

The Internet and child pornography is a major issue, no matter where you live and that is why there is federal law.

I never voted; I believe it trivializes the crime. If the 21 year old did that to this kid, He's done it before and will do it again. You can be gay, that is certainly no excuse to be stupid however or try and prey on underage kids.

You can substitute his age, say he's 27; 32; 46; 63. It does not matter if he's 21. The 63 year old started somewhere as well.........


On a side note;
Brahman, you do have a point in a sick twisted way; Even you miss it however. 30-40 years ago some 15 year olds had to do those things. Leave home, pay bills, work. but they were still 15 year old KIDS, now you get over it.......

[Brahman]

first i would like to point out that i do not disagree with it being distasful at the very least, and indeed it is illegal. My agreement or disagreement with the law in question makes no difference on that being illegal or not.

I'm only pointing that we as a society need to give up the victum craze and take some self responsability.

I disagree with them having been kids at the time. FFS that just doesn't hold true IMO, and things have started to turn very sour very quickly in the last few decades when we started treating these "children" like kids absolving them of responsability. Forcing responsability on people tends to produce GOOD results not bad.

[Ckador]

So wait, the legal age of consent is 16? I always thought it was 18!

[Whispers Quietly]

Yeah, it's 16. but a new bill in congress atm would drop it to 12. There's 4 congressman pushing for it. It's basically called the pedophile bill by people that know better.

Makes me wonder what those 4 are up to....

[Nadori]

LOL are you serious?

[Mallakith]

Strange the legal age has been 12 in Holland for donkeys year's and theres no major problems read about there...

Of course Holland has legal drugs as well so...

PLUS in UK the legal age has always been 16. I always think its funny that a 16 yr old can have sex but cant buy a video showing it :)

On the point. ANYONE trying to solicit images from others on t'internet is a bit creepy. I post in "show your rl self" pages cos.. well i aint likely to pick up any stalkers but I fully understand the reticence shown by some members (Fel is the standout) this community is pretty good in that we all nag for pictures but i think all understand the reasons they arent forthcoming and aint gonna lose sleep over it.

Openly gay meh is that an issue? Only the same as a 21yr old straight guy after young girls.

I agree with Brahman TO AN EXTENT. I think that society as a whole is becoming "soft". I cite corporal punishment, when kids knew a belting was in the offing they behaved better. More responsibility and teaching of children leads to better understanding and reaction to incidents.

Too often these days it is someone else's fault. If a child fails an exam the school didnt teach them properly and so on. If parents are THAT concerned stop children having access to the internet and spend time with them yourselves.

[Brahman]

if there is a federal law that puts the age of consent at 16 i'm unaware. however most states have other laws and usually they are more strict.

michigan's age of consent is NOT 16. and many states have various different laws on the matter...

[Schaeffer]

I have a problem with the fact that at 18 you can be handed an assualt rifle and be told to go kill for your country but you can't have a beer.

Society has gotten soft, but fuckinga, wouldn't you want your "kids" to be able to just relax and be a kid for a little longer than 13? Growing up fast sucks, I wish I didn't have all the resonsibility I do now, would be great to just sit back and play video games carefree for a while... oh wait, I do that at 27 now anyways...

[Nadori]

My opinion is yes that is definetly wrong. The thing though a lot of teenagers...espeacially nowdays are a lot more mature and a lot more exposed to then we were at that age.

At large society and the parents are to blame.


I know my kid is not getting a comp untill i feel like i can trust them with that to a degree.

[Whispers Quietly]

Brahman; I have to agree with you. Kids can handle more responsibility than they are given credit for.

I felt that was a de-rail so i never touched on it so much; So since it's de-railed atm, lets go for it.

Kids can Handle a lot more than people think; How many of our parents got married at a young age, had kids, had us; bought the family home and went to work regularly. Mine was 19.

It never happened over night, I'm 19 and going to do all these things. Never worked that way. It's progression. My dad was 13 i believe when he was suddenly the man, his dad died putting him up in position. So at 13 he had to be the man. Natural progression, responsibility. And he handled it.

Anyway, however; I do believe there was an accountability there that is lacking today. When i was in high school the popular kid with the great girlfriend commited suicide. We all thought WTF. She dumped him, get over it. In this day and age bring out the councelers, How were you affected by him commiting suicide? Of course kids being kids suddenly feel they have to feel something because an adult with a PHD basically told them they have to..

I call it the bored PHD syndrome; I have a PHD so now I have to use it some how. WTF, grab a hammer and some nails and do something useful.

Obesity, losing your hair, drink to much, bad diet, driving a car, riding a bike, work out to much. There is an Expert on everything now to tell you how your screwing up; No wonder our kids today are. They never had anything like that 30 years ago.

I'm no expert, but when I see my 15 year old niece on the comp logged into myspace and she has 50 downsized windows open; I just stand behind her. It's amazing how unimportant those windows really are suddenly. They close real quick. Then we go out and look at flowers and what not.

I learned years ago; the happiest dog on earth has a purpose, a job. Something only that dog can do. Even if it's to alert you that someones at the door. He has a job and is happy doing it.

In summation; If the 15 year old was out doing something, anything. That Bitch could never have solicited the photos.....

[Brahman]

Society has gotten soft, but fuckinga, wouldn't you want your "kids" to be able to just relax and be a kid for a little longer than 13? Growing up fast sucks, I wish I didn't have all the resonsibility I do now, would be great to just sit back and play video games carefree for a while... oh wait, I do that at 27 now anyways...

no. I'm sorry but you can not force a biological being who's body is SCREAMING that i'm an adult to be a kid longer then that. You NEED to supply responsiblity enough to them so that they grow up. With holding that responsability from them only creates the problems taht you see in society every day.

Can you provide that responsability while still allowing them to be able to focus on things that are not so important right away? I think so, but you still have to give them the responsability that makes them understand they have a say in this world. When you don't give them taht, suddenly doom and school start to look alot alike, and really whats it matter when you are just a dumb old kid and nothing you do actually matters?

I find it hilarious that people tend to agree with me on this, but they ALWAYS feel they can not just openly say "ya know i think he's right" for fear of being accused of being pro-pediphile. those "to an extent" type comments are always right there to prevent that from happening !

So again...

I don't think 21 year olds praying on anyone for nude pics online is an acceptable thing. That doesn't mean i think that the 15 year old in question is some victum though. He is at the very least well on his way to being an adult and needs to take responsiblity for his choices. The question is, when your kid is 15 are you going to provide them with the tools to make the right decisions, and make it clear to them these decisions will affect the rest of their lives, or are you going to try to shelter them so they are walking into the world with their eyes closed? Like it or not, human biology WILL have them walking out into the world at right about that age. You can not stop that.

[Brahman]

So since it's de-railed atm, lets go for it.

Thats a big thing, i don't think it is a de-rail. Its dead point on. The world is filled with preditors of all types, you can't protect people form them. I'm sorry, its just not going to happen.

just look at the damn TV shows. Those shows have been out for how long now? they still get 10+ guys to show up in under a week. Its human nature to be imprefect and we all just have to deal with that. I just choose to focus on the side of things that we SHOULD have more control over.

[Rdarkwill]

In the past humans have dealt with predators in a very predictable manner. I see this as no different, there should be no rehabilitation attempts for people who are "sick". Any malicious violent crime (including sexual) with clear evidence and witnesses should mean instant execution. If a bear goes rogue and starts attacking people we drop it, no questions. Rapists, thugs, killers....predators, should be handled in the same way. 1 hollowpoint to the skull is alot cheaper than supporting them for years in prison.

I think if this was the case, some (not all) of the predators would magically "cure" themselves.

I can only speak for myself, but if (god forbid) anything of this nature happened to my family I would, without a doubt, take justice into my own hands. I would not hesitate for a moment, and I would not deny my actions should they reach the light of day. I have 2 young nephews, and if some predator would target either of them.... may god have mercy on the bastards soul, cause he'll get none from me.

[Rijak]

Kids and adults are the same today as they have always been. And the problems of society are as well. People like to generalize about the "good old days" without ever doing any real research into how it was back then.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Sick and twisted. Just because at 15 you are old enough to have sex and reproduce, I don't think most people should... seriously. I have yet to meet a truly happy 15 year old mother.

Rijak, I think hit the nail on the head with the relative ages. I think there is a huge leap of maturity when you are talking a gap of 6 years from 21 to 15. HUGE. I think the gap in maturity is less so as you get older and may not be true in every case. At 26 (ok, soon to be 26 :D), I can't imagine dating someone much more than maybe 2 years older or younger than myself - we just wouldn't be on the same level of maturity.

Originally posted by "Nadori"
I know my kid is not getting a comp untill i feel like i can trust them with that to a degree.Quoted for truth. The internet allows kids to access information that they should not be exposed to. It also makes them accessible to a large predatory population of "innocent" 21 year olds looking to get a sympathy naked photo...

Let kids be kids! Damnit! Let them have fun and play awhile before the reality of the world weighs on their shoulders.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Kids and adults are the same today as they have always been. And the problems of society are as well. People like to generalize about the "good old days" without ever doing any real research into how it was back then. I disagree wtih that, maybe in our nature we are not much different, but our information society continually exposes each generation to more and more "adult" material at a younger age. I was not a naive child, but I know in an hour on any playground in my city I could hear things stated from the kids that I wouldn't have heard in a given year when I was the same age.

I think the pressures of our society, and the information and content that is piped through entertainment, the internet, magazines, fashion etc. are making the generations grow up faster and faster.

Not too mention the phenomena that I have seen documented in a few articles (most notably in TIME), the all the crap that we are putting into our food such as growth hormones (given to cows for more milk and beef!) now we are accelerating the rate at which our children are maturing physically. Like girls developing breasts at the age of 8 or 9 or earlier. This only adds to the issue as the children are appearing more attractive to older kids/young adults (excluding pedophiles) etc.

/sigh :D

[Schaeffer]

That reminds me of a scene in "The Way of the Gun". Ryan Phillippe's character, basically a rogue and a thief who wouldn't hesitate to kill someone in his way or torture someone to get the information he needed was talking about a hit someone hired him to do:

He was in big trouble, he got caught and was looking at 20 years in prison when this high priced lawyer came in and said he'd get him off the hook if he took out this guy. The lawyer said that his son's 5th grade teacher had been molesting him and he wanted him dead, so he took the job.

So Phillippe took the job, snuck into the teachers house and caught the guy red handed, naked masturbating to the pictures he took of all the little children he's abused. He told the guy to lay on the bedface down and he did. Phillippe was taking his time with it savouring the moment, thinking about for once in his good for nothing life he was doing justice for all those kids...

Then I heard him praying, now I lay me down to sleep I pray to the lord my soul to keep... and you know something it stayed with me, it bothered me. Of all the people I'd done it too, and that had to be the one I felt and to this day I can't go to sleep unless I say that prayer.

Great movie you should check it out.

Anyways, back on topic, you're right a 15 year old should probably know better than to respond back to him and would probably even know enough to report him to the authorities. Most of us at that age did know enough to do that and the ones that don't know enough are most likely products of a coddleing society that our parents' generation created. The fact of the matter is, it is a crime now. Should it be? Yeah, i think at 15 it should still be a crime for a 21 year old. A 21 year old is alot more slick than a 15 year old can be. There's alot of growing up in those 6 years inbetween.

Fifteen year olds think they know everything, but they really don't know shit yet. That's just lack of experience in life, and it's not due to sheltering, that's just the way life works. I'm not talking about those parents who complain about the school when their kid fails a class or doesn't make a team, I'm talking about life in general. How do you teach someone how not to get hustled or taken advantage of? You can't, those things can only be learned by experience and high school doesn't give that. Once you get out of high school, it's a whole new ball game, whether you go straight into the workforce, military or college all those places give you a taste of how tough and harsh the world can be and is for the most part.

I don't know how to call it legally. Maybe there can be like an age limit by association. Maybe, if your 14 it's legal for you to be with someone 1 year older, at 15 - 2 years older, 16 - 3 years, at 17 - 4 years and at 18 it's open. It seems loggical to pro-rate it imo. I don't believe it's statutory if both parties are minor's, but there can be a 6 month difference in age and one be a minor and the other not, does that make sense? They can legally have sex, then not legally for 6 months then legally have sex again?!? That's just idiotic (see people, there are ways to express how dumb you think something/someone is without using the R word =P).

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Jul 31 2006, 10:42 AM
Not too mention the phenomena that I have seen documented in a few articles (most notably in TIME), the all the crap that we are putting into our food such as growth hormones (given to cows for more milk and beef!) now we are accelerating the rate at which our children are maturing physically. Like girls developing breasts at the age of 8 or 9 or earlier. This only adds to the issue as the children are appearing more attractive to older kids/young adults (excluding pedophiles) etc.

/sigh :D
Heh, about 3 years ago, I was sitting outside my favorite restuarant/bar eating and drinking with a couple of buddies after work (ok fine we were mostly drinking). The girl who worked the counter at the pizzeria downstairs from my building walked by where we were sitting and started harassing me that I wasn't eating at where she worked and so she was insulted. Now I knew that she was just being a wise ass kid who wanted me to eat where she worked so she'd get more tips, so I said hi and laughed it off and she kept walking.

But she was a very tall and very developed 16 year old, so all my buddies said, dude she's hot why didn't you invite her to join us? I told them it wasn't a good idea. She happened by again a half hour later going in the other direction and against my warning one of my buddies who thought he was slick invited her to sit down. She started talking about basketball and school and how it's kind of rough at Columbia (one of the local high school's in town is named the same as the college in NYC, but not everyone knew this)

One by one I see the light go on in my co-workers heads except for the fellow who invited her to sit in the first place. We were all biting our lips trying not to laugh as our poor friend is laying his game on thick. Finally one of the other guys couldn't take it anymore and finally said, "Columbia, where is that exactly?" So she said, "Oh you go down 2 blocks and make a left then it's your 3rd right..." The look of shock on our buddies face was priceless. She finally excused herself and the second she was out of site our poor misguided friend proceeded to punch us all in the arm for letting him go on for so long...

HA HA HA HA AHA HA

[brinlar]

Part of the problem is that parents in todays society dont equip their children with the means of handling problems anymore. Most kids dont grow up and have a sense of responsibility anymore. When i lived in Maryland there was a court case where the parents of three 16 year olds were suing the county they lived in because there children had died in a car wreck from hill jumping. They said the county did not do enough to warn there kids that doing it on that road was dangerous. Never mind the fact that the kids were doing three times the posted speed limit at the time of the accident. Nor the fact that the parents had given the kid a brand new camaro for his 16th birthday. Part of the problem with kids today is the parents blame someone else for there kids problems. No one ever really blames the kids for the stuff the did that they new was wrong.

Also how can we not expect some of these young kids to be sexually active at a young age. We live in a society that splashes sluts and bad influences all over the T.V. and wonder why kids make them role models, then allow kids to dress like them. Of course people will look at them in a sexual manner when they are dressed like they do. If people want there kids to be safe parents need to take time with there kids and teach them responsibility.

Ohh and about 18 year olds being old enough to kill for our country, but not able to have a beer. The legal drinking age on a military base is 18.

[Jebasiz]

I'm all for a kid being responisble if he vandalizes are car or house(or anything), fighting or stealing and (nearly) anything else. I'm totally against making it legal for them to be preyed upon by ADULT sexual predators at such an early age. A lapse in judgement by a teenager should not let a pedophile run free.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by brinlar@Jul 31 2006, 11:37 AM
Part of the problem with kids today is the parents blame someone else for there kids problems. No one ever really blames the kids for the stuff the did that they new was wrong.
Well I think the problem is that parent's don't blame themselves for thier kids problems...


Ohh and about 18 year olds being old enough to kill for our country, but not able to have a beer. The legal drinking age on a military base is 18.

Oh really? Interesting, but are you actually allowed to drink while you're on base and on active duty? My understanding was no, but I don't have any first hand knowledge so pretty much it was just an assumption.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Jul 31 2006, 11:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Jul 31 2006, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-brinlar@Jul 31 2006, 11:37 AM
Part of the problem with kids today is the parents blame someone else for there kids problems. No one ever really blames the kids for the stuff the did that they new was wrong.
Well I think the problem is that parent's don't blame themselves for thier kids problems...


Ohh and about 18 year olds being old enough to kill for our country, but not able to have a beer.* The legal drinking age on a military base is 18.

Oh really? Interesting, but are you actually allowed to drink while you're on base and on active duty? My understanding was no, but I don't have any first hand knowledge so pretty much it was just an assumption. [/b][/quote]
Heh..the only base that I know of, state-side where it WAS legal to drink at 21 was San Diego. It was lowered to discourage sailors from going to TJ(mexico) and getting robbed/mugged/worse while they were intoxicated.

You're likely to get served in and around military bases, but it's still not legal. Atleast on no state-side base I've been on.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Jul 31 2006, 09:42 AM
Kids and adults are the same today as they have always been. And the problems of society are as well. People like to generalize about the "good old days" without ever doing any real research into how it was back then. I disagree wtih that, maybe in our nature we are not much different, but our information society continually exposes each generation to more and more "adult" material at a younger age. I was not a naive child, but I know in an hour on any playground in my city I could hear things stated from the kids that I wouldn't have heard in a given year when I was the same age.

I think the pressures of our society, and the information and content that is piped through entertainment, the internet, magazines, fashion etc. are making the generations grow up faster and faster.

Not too mention the phenomena that I have seen documented in a few articles (most notably in TIME), the all the crap that we are putting into our food such as growth hormones (given to cows for more milk and beef!) now we are accelerating the rate at which our children are maturing physically. Like girls developing breasts at the age of 8 or 9 or earlier. This only adds to the issue as the children are appearing more attractive to older kids/young adults (excluding pedophiles) etc.

/sigh :D
I think when people look at "the past", they tend to look back at the idealized 1950s, where child-beating, spousal abuse and sexual issues were all just as big as they are these days, they simply weren't talked about or even found out about until many years later, if at all.

I have three kids, with number four on the way, and I let them use the 'net unfiltered and spoke with them very young about sexuality (starting at age six). I think it is important for them to be made aware of what the world, and humanity, is really like so that they know how to deal with it when I am not around them day to day anymore.

The internet and television didn't create anything that wasn't already a part of humanity. I'm sure eight-year-olds were molested in the middle ages, and they probably had no recourse against such a thing back then.

In my mind, the best way to prepare a child for the real world is not to try to create a sheltered world, but to expose them to the good and the bad as they grow up and explain to them what it's all about. I saw my share of sheltered kids in high school and college who made bad decisions or even ended up going completely over the deep end because their first experiences, be it with sex or drugs or alcohol, or even just "sick people" came with no history or real parental guidance on the matter, just parents telling scare stories at best.

I agree that we all like to hold in our hearts the idea of preserving a certain period of "innocence" for our children, but I think we may be doing them a disservice by doing so. This doesn't mean I'll give my kid a pack of smokes, a joint, a bottle of JD and a condom when he turns twelve (I may give him a condom *wink*), but I think it's important to let him experience the good and bad of the world as it comes along, be it bullies in a public school, or sickos on the 'net. That way it'll be a lesson well-learned, and one I can help bring them through.

I do agree on the hormone thing though! =)

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I think it's important to let him experience the good and bad of the world as it comes along, be it bullies in a public school, or sickos on the 'net. That way it'll be a lesson well-learned, and one I can help bring them through.Lesson learned if they molested? I think somethings can and should be learned through experience, but somethings a young kid doesn't have the worldly experience to know what they are getting in to.

When I think to the past, I don't think of the 50's, I think of my childhood, the 80's :D There are issues that are just as prevalent in the 50-present certainly, but there are many more issues that have risen with the amount our society has connected itself - the availability of your children to sexual predators has never been greater, also the ability for children to "lose their innocence".

If a child with any curiosity (about anything) goes on teh net unsupervised, they kind find things that will blow their mind, in both very good and very bad ways... and it is too easy for a child to stumble into the bad unknowningly, imho.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Jul 31 2006, 12:22 PM
If a child with any curiosity (about anything) goes on teh net unsupervised, they kind find things that will blow their mind, in both very good and very bad ways... and it is too easy for a child to stumble into the bad unknowningly, imho.
There's a big step between getting propositioned on the 'net and being molested. Whether or not I let my kid use the 'net at home, I can't control what happens at friend's houses, or in the world at large as they mature and are allowed to do things on their own more.

Better to learn what it looks like and how to deal with such attacks at home than to not be aware of them. And that's the other big part of it, complete and open communication. If you constantly demonize something to your child, they are not very likely to come to you and talk about it when such a thing does happen, and chances are it will eventually.

I grew up as a kid in NYC in the 70s, and I was taught early by my parents and peers about bad people. I would have kicked someone in the balls who propositioned me at the age of eight, and I would have laughed and probably reported anyone if the 'net had existed back then and something happened. But if I had never learned that as I grew up? I'm not sure what my first reaction would have been at 15, or even 18. I moved to suburbia when I was in my teens and I was constantly amazed by the lack of street smarts among my peers.

I think kids are capable of a lot more understanding than people give them credit for, especially ages 12 and up. But they are also capable of being clueless at 21 if they haven't been allowed to see enough.

[Jebasiz]

Rijak,
That would be your reaction. You grew up in a home, seemingly with both an attentive mother and father. What about kids that had a single parent that worked all the time? An abusive parent?

Maybe a kid with less self-esteem, that talks to an older guy (or girl) because they gave them a compliment, or the attention that their parent never gave them? Predators use lots of angles to get what they're after, you wouldn't be a target..a girl that's made fun of all day at school? She might really think that guy on the internet is really 'cool' because he gets a pic or sees one of her and gives her a compliment, when nobody else will.

I've seen logs of this, and how people work (when I was law enforcement)..they look for people who are easy to victimize. Not people who exude confidence and are more then likely to tell them to fuck off (wastes their time) or tell their parents and get them incarcerated.

I've done cases on stuff like this that led to rape, the victims being as old as 40. If it can happen to middle-aged adults..how can we even think it's ok to not protect children from it.

[Schaeffer]

I think everyone's point Jeb is that we should protect them from it with preventative measures. You're not protecting them from it while enforcing penalties on the sick mofo's who commit this crimes, yes you are issuing some kind of justice, but the damage has already been done, you can no longer protect that victim from what's already been done to them. Educating them before hand is the best measure and I'm now agreeing. I don't think anyone is against penalizing the lowlifes who commit these acts, I think it's more along the lines of equipping our youth with the tools of knowledge and confidence inorder to handle themselves better.

How to do that effectively is another question altogether...

[Warspite]

A bit off topic:

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that 18 year olds can't drink.. but they can fight and die. Hey, they can also vote in big enough numbers to change laws... hint hint. If they think it's important enough, they can go ahead and fix that law.. otherwise they can suck it up and get a wino to buy their booze for them like every other underage drinker does. =)

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Warspite@Jul 31 2006, 02:39 PM
A bit off topic:

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that 18 year olds can't drink.. but they can fight and die. Hey, they can also vote in big enough numbers to change laws... hint hint. If they think it's important enough, they can go ahead and fix that law.. otherwise they can suck it up and get a wino to buy their booze for them like every other underage drinker does. =)
I wish it were that easy. I'm 27 btw and this doesn't affect me at all, but I still think it's ass backwards. If people were allowed to vote on teh drinking age, I'm sure the 18-20 crowd would show up in droves to vote yes, but unfortunately you don't get to vote on specific laws, you get to elect on an offical who gets to vote on the laws, and I doubt that is #1 on any candidates mind right now.

Sure sure, they can write letters to their congressmen and senators, but the 18-25 demographic is the least likely to show up at the polls on election day so why the hell would the candidates respond to letters like that? Running with that on their platform may even hurt their standings in the polls with the 65 & older crowd, a demographic much more likely to show up in November.

[Jebasiz]

Detering an attack is being protective. You can tell your children to not do something, but most of the time..that's not enough. You can educate people to protect themselves..why are so many people robbed, mugged, or raped each year?

People are taught to not walk alone, use the buddy system. Call a cab. Some colleges even have people to walk people home from the library and such after 10pm. Are these systems used? No. Not by kids and not by adults.

Educating and training more often then not do not make it to real life practice and/or discipline. Making it illegal to pursue people of a young age over the internet and setting up stings/task forces etc, putting these perverts behind bars BEFORE they hurt someone will indeed give them protection...at least some.

The general population of this country has proven time and again that we lack the ability to protect ourselves. Sometimes the government goes overboard, and I'm not saying these decisions and laws should be made for us(this time, I would support it)..but I really do believe that reguardless of education (just like teenage pregnancy) it'll only make the people who would be aware of the problem anyway..more aware. It'll do nothing for the people that pedophiles look for..since they probably won't see or get the message.

[Warspite]

Perhaps you're right, Schaeff... perhaps I'm just used to California where we have a well used Proposition system that allows the people to place potential laws on the ballot. All it takes is a few hundred thousand sigs and it's good to run. So, at least in California, 18 year olds could drink.. if they applied themselves.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jul 31 2006, 01:19 PM
Rijak,
That would be your reaction. You grew up in a home, seemingly with both an attentive mother and father. What about kids that had a single parent that worked all the time? An abusive parent?

Maybe a kid with less self-esteem, that talks to an older guy (or girl) because they gave them a compliment, or the attention that their parent never gave them? Predators use lots of angles to get what they're after, you wouldn't be a target..a girl that's made fun of all day at school? She might really think that guy on the internet is really 'cool' because he gets a pic or sees one of her and gives her a compliment, when nobody else will.

I've seen logs of this, and how people work (when I was law enforcement)..they look for people who are easy to victimize. Not people who exude confidence and are more then likely to tell them to fuck off (wastes their time) or tell their parents and get them incarcerated.

I've done cases on stuff like this that led to rape, the victims being as old as 40. If it can happen to middle-aged adults..how can we even think it's ok to not protect children from it.
I think that if parents don't have the desire or time, even if through no fault of their own, to raise their children or see that they are responsibly raised by someone, their should be alternatives for childcare, or the children should be taken away to a better environment. But that's another whole issue.

On the rest. The best way to raise self-esteem is to make a child responsible. The best way to make a child responsible is to give them responsibility and let them make the occasional bad decision as long as it is a controlled environment. And to start that training as young as possible. A child isn't a teddy bear to have fun with and order around for 18 years. You have to teach them to become adults every step of the way.

I'm not saying we should not "protect" a child from it. But we also shouldn't put up so many walls as to pretend it does not exist. The best protection in any situation, and arguably the only real protection longterm, is teaching someone to protect themselves. As a said before, better to learn how to deal with it on a computer screen in your own home with your parents than at work from your coworker when you are 40ish and possibly alone in the world.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Jul 31 2006, 01:52 PM
The general population of this country has proven time and again that we lack the ability to protect ourselves.
It's because there are no rules to becoming a parent. You're not responsible enough to have sex 'till your 16. You're not responsible enough to vote until you are 18. You're not responsible enough to drink 'till you're 21. But if you have a child at 16, you're allowed to be his/her guardian if you so choose.

You can be a pedofile straight out of jail, or someone who has lived on welfare your whole life and still raise and have more children. It is a touchy subject few want to touch, but the bottom line is that we require nothing in order for someone to raise a child. Even a dog has to get a license. It's a crazy world we live in.

[Rdarkwill]

It's a crazy world we live in

I disagree, I think the world is just fine. Nature, life, weather it all has it's own easy to understand system.

Humans on the other hand are completely out of their freaking minds =P

[Brahman]

there are preditors of all types and they are countless.

you can NOT prevent it from happening. You could procecute 500,000 sex preditors and the next day still be solicited on the net.

[Schaeffer]

I think we need to take a page out of M. Night Shamanlahan's book on this topic. If you look at the movie "The Village", you can try to shelter children your children all you want, but bad things will find a way to happen.

There's got to be some sort of medium though. I think one the one hand, there's letting a kid be a kid and have fun playing sports and games and not be tied to the overbearing responsibility of work & bills, but how can you prepare for Real Life situations such as violent crime, drugs, sex and rocknroll.

Yeah, I had a job at age 15, it was 3 hours a day after school. I didn't need the money, but I wanted the experience. It taught me alot more about life than I learned in class my senior year in high school. I also got a cell phone at 16 that I was responsible for paying the bill on. I let it get out of hand and it got taken away. I probably would have rather been on a sport team, would've taught me the same kind of responsibility but I probably would've had alot more fun with it.

I pretty much moved out on my own at 19. Got a full time job and working my way through college part time living in an apartment I rented. I think I was pretty well rounded as far as that stuff went.

My parent's never really had talks with me about sex and drugs though. Just pretty much, "You know drugs are bad right?" "Ofcourse Dad!" "You know to be safe sexually right" "Ofcourse Dad" That didn't stop me from trying some of them. It didn't stop me from taking u cigarette smoking, it didn't stop me from going on week long benders when I first turned 21. It didn't help me the first time I saw someone draw a gun in the streets of Newark. Those are things I had to experience myself, and I'm not sure any amount of talking to would have prepared me for any of it, though I have always made sure to practice safer (there's no such thing as 100%) sex.

Now I'm not saying my dad was the greatest conversationalist either, but I doubt that Rijak could've conviced me never to try pot. I can still count how many times I've smoked, I don't see anything wrong with it to people who do enjoy it, but it's just not for me, and I do agree that the government should legalize it so they can regulate it, but that's another rant.

How do you really prepared someone for having a gun pointed in there face the first time? How do you really prepare someone for being sexually assualted? Sure you can teach self defense classes, but that doesn't mean everyone will kick into military mode the first time and be able to fight someone off. I've heard blackbelts who were mugged that would rather give up their wallet than fight off the attacker. What was the reasoning behind this? "Sure I could've probably broken that guys arm and taken the gun away and the police would have caught the guy," he reponded "but what if I was half a second too slow and the guy managed to pull the trigger while the gun was still pointed at me? I'd rather lose my wallet than take a chance of my son losing his father!" Words of wisdom from Muj...

So where does this all leave us? No where really I don't think I've yet come to a conclusion let alone a solution. Just trying to open it up that this issue isn't just black & white and add some food for thought...

[Rijak]

Good points. You can never be sure. My goal certainly isn't to have perfect kids. I was far from it. But, eventhough I did many "bad" things in my time, there was a level of responsibility I had that kept me from ever going too far. And my parents never held my mistakes against me either, which I think is huge on the confidence side.

We'll see. I've got more than a few teens in training who can prove me wrong. =)

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I can't believe you just posted your Dad's advice talk :D haha, I remember on my 15th birthday my dad gave me the sex talk... good god it was 15 words of pure awkwardness. :)

Seriously, I don't think over shielding your children from the world is good, but I think there are a lot of things that one can do as a parent to restrict or guide your children to make the best choices (and learn from them). For instance, I wouldn't want my kids to have unrestricted internet use. But sure, if I am in the same room as them knowing what they are doing, I wouldn't have a problem with them doing their own thing.

// don't have kids, want some, someday, with the right person... :D

[BlackHeart]

I had three daughters so my sex talk with them was pretty straightforward.

Me - "Teenage boys are evil. Stay away from them."

Daughter - "Oh dad... " <rolls eyes>

Of course they didn't listen to me but I still constantly reminded them of this small fact and reminded them that I knew it to be truth because I used to be one myself.

[brinlar]

Hence why i never want daughters, much less kids. Id be the guy at the door with shootgun saying something like "I'm not afraid to go back to the pen, so dont touch my daughter."

[Xebitikz]

The 21 year old is called a pedophile. He needs to go to jail. End of story.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 04:52 AM
all those things happen because thats how people fucking treat "kids".

why is it 30 - 40 years ago a 15 year old could move out of his parents house, get a job, and pay his own bills but now one can't be taught to use a fucking condom or not give out their RL info on the internet?
how many kids were giving out their real life info over the internet 30 years ago? damn...that's pretty impressive.


i have absolutely nothing against teaching sex education..but an adult preying on a child is a different story.

a 15 year old thinks differently than 20 year old or a 30 year old...they just do. i know i was nowhere near the person at 15 that i am now..

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Ckador@Jul 31 2006, 08:12 AM
So wait, the legal age of consent is 16? I always thought it was 18!
depends on your state

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 07:57 AM
first i would like to point out that i do not disagree with it being distasful at the very least, and indeed it is illegal. My agreement or disagreement with the law in question makes no difference on that being illegal or not.

I'm only pointing that we as a society need to give up the victum craze and take some self responsability.

I disagree with them having been kids at the time. FFS that just doesn't hold true IMO, and things have started to turn very sour very quickly in the last few decades when we started treating these "children" like kids absolving them of responsability. Forcing responsability on people tends to produce GOOD results not bad.
there is a difference between having a little responsibilty and being down right careless and neglectful of kids.

my 9 year old can make some food, can stay by herself for short periods of time and often babysits her sisters if we have to run to the store and my mother is asleep upstairs...that is giving her some responsibility. she also has to do her chores, cleaning up the kitchen and her bedroom and helping her sisters with the livingroom and dining room.

sex leads to children....no matter how safe you are, if a penis enters a vagina, there is a chance of a baby being concieved...whether you are on the pill, using a condom, pulling out, standing on your head, or chanting with the tibetan monks afterward...

teaching kids that it is best to wait to have sex until they are ready to be parents is the first step, then teaching them that if they INSIST on making the decision to have sex, the safest possible way to do it is the second step. telling them they are adults and can do whatever they want, handing them a box of rubbers and saying "have fun" is not the way to go about it.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 09:10 AM
[QUOTE]I don't think 21 year olds praying on anyone for nude pics online is an acceptable thing. That doesn't mean i think that the 15 year old in question is some victum though. He is at the very least well on his way to being an adult and needs to take responsiblity for his choices. The question is, when your kid is 15 are you going to provide them with the tools to make the right decisions, and make it clear to them these decisions will affect the rest of their lives, or are you going to try to shelter them so they are walking into the world with their eyes closed? Like it or not, human biology WILL have them walking out into the world at right about that age. You can not stop that.
the person in question did NOT give out the pics and did the responsible thing by ending the conversation and blocking that person from their instant messenger...he is just wondering if he should (or chould) persue some kind of legal action to make sure this person doesn't come in contact with a kid who is NOT smart enough to not give out those pics..or worse, meet the guy in person...

as for their sexual urges, teach them that masturbation is NOT a sin and is an magnificent way for them to learn their own bodies and get ready for the time when they will be with another person.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Jul 31 2006, 02:42 PM
now we are accelerating the rate at which our children are maturing physically. Like girls developing breasts at the age of 8 or 9 or earlier. This only adds to the issue as the children are appearing more attractive to older kids/young adults (excluding pedophiles) etc.

/sigh :D
my 9 year old is already starting to get "curves"...and the 11 year old next door is easily in a b cup...scares the bejeezus out of me...

[najiwench]

Originally posted by brinlar@Jul 31 2006, 03:37 PM
Ohh and about 18 year olds being old enough to kill for our country, but not able to have a beer. The legal drinking age on a military base is 18.
wrong

[Rdarkwill]

The 21 year old is called a pedophile I agree

He needs to go to jail I disagree.
Jail is becoming (or has been for awhile) a problem. It is not reforming those who do time, and is a very LARGE drain on the system ( not that I agree with the system). We need to find another solution. Maybe not as drastic as instant execution in all cases, but something that instills fear in the types who commit the crimes. Sure, the average person does not wanna do time, but than again the average person will know the difference between right and wrong. And I hope most would pick the right thing for other reasons than fear of sittin for awhile.

The types we are talking about "predators" dont mind the rotating door our system provides. It's just part of their life, they are accustomed to jail life, and I know in certain cases they actually prefer it (which illustrates my point quite well). There HAS to be a penatly which causes them to stop and say " If i get busted, this is not worth it... nothing is". I do believe that certain people have some wiring missing upstairs, and this may sound harsh but, I think executions (if not instant, then within a month or less) should be far more common in cases of repeat offenders.

I could go on... but I just ran outta steam... =P

I think this is a good thread, lotta serious thoughts/opinions being passed back and forth.

(edit: Holy freakin' ninja postS Naji =P )

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 07:19 PM
there are preditors of all types and they are countless.

you can NOT prevent it from happening. You could procecute 500,000 sex preditors and the next day still be solicited on the net.
that's not an excuse to let one get away with it.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Rdarkwill@Aug 1 2006, 12:14 AM

Jail is becoming (or has been for awhile) a problem. It is not reforming those who do time, and is a very LARGE drain on the system ( not that I agree with the system). We need to find another solution. Maybe not as drastic as instant execution in all cases, but something that instills fear in the types who commit the crimes. Sure, the average person does not wanna do time, but than again the average person will know the difference between right and wrong. And I hope most would pick the right thing for other reasons than fear of sittin for awhile.

The types we are talking about "predators" dont mind the rotating door our system provides. It's just part of their life, they are accustomed to jail life, and I know in certain cases they actually prefer it (which illustrates my point quite well). There HAS to be a penatly which causes them to stop and say " If i get busted, this is not worth it... nothing is". I do believe that certain people have some wiring missing upstairs, and this may sound harsh but, I think executions (if not instant, then within a month or less) should be far more common in cases of repeat offenders.

I could go on... but I just ran outta steam... =P

I think this is a good thread, lotta serious thoughts/opinions being passed back and forth.

(edit: Holy freakin' ninja postS Naji =P )
teehee..sorry..i reply as i read em and well..*blush*

anyways, i say we get rid of consentual crime..that will free jails up for people who actually need to be kept away from society..and then we need to convince ourselves that most of those predators out there are not able to be rehabilitated. the number of repeat offenders when it is something like predatory sexual assault is sickening. those people are sick..they don't change their ways, they don't get scared out of doing it, they don't get better...they should either be locked away forever or killed and prevented from ever doing it again.

[Rdarkwill]

locked away forever

This comes directly out of our pockets.. I know I personally would rather spend that money on something better.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Rdarkwill@Aug 1 2006, 12:35 AM
locked away forever

This comes directly out of our pockets.. I know I personally would rather spend that money on something better.
well, yeah..me too...but the way the system is right now, it's actually cheaper in most cases to lock them away forever than to put them to death, with the costs of the appeals process and all that bullshit that goes with it.

my personal choice would be to put them to death or use them for medical experimentation. but then i also believe that dui should automatically be an attempted manslaughter charge....most people don't agree with me :(

[Brahman]

Originally posted by najiwench+Jul 31 2006, 07:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Jul 31 2006, 07:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 07:19 PM
there are preditors of all types and they are countless.

you can NOT prevent it from happening. You could procecute 500,000 sex preditors and the next day still be solicited on the net.
that's not an excuse to let one get away with it. [/b][/quote]
never said it was.

But no matter what, there will ALWAYS be preditors out there.

I disagree that 15 is a child though. They just deserve more credit then that.

i mean...

from some of the comments made here. a 30 year old being hit on by a 40 year old the damn 40 year old is a preditor. people need to think about wtf they are really suggesting with their comments.

[Lorie_Lavender]

there is a large difference between a 30 year old and a 40 year old but the 30 year old has been an adult for longer than they havent been, so this argument holds no water.

30-40 years ago, it was not common for 15 year olds to be out on thier own, making thier own way, paying thier own bills. sure, in the late 60s - early 70s there were a lot of runaways going to woodstock or to manson's compound, or wherever, but those were not adults, they were just runaways. very few of them ended up becoming productive members of society.

society has proclaimed that a 21 year old (man or woman, doesnt matter) asking a 15 year old (boy or girl, doesnt matter) for naked pics is wrong... very wrong. anyone who cannot control themselves enough to avoid one of the worst taboo's in society is wrong... very wrong. facts show that sexual offenders never reform. none ever have. very few have even learned how to keep thier sick, twisted needs unfilled.

i dont know how to convince you that a 15 year old is a child. its so engrained on the rest of society that maybe we've forgotten how to define that. i find it hard to believe that you really think a 15 year old is not a child. you are, however, lending a lot of creedence to this story from CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/27/national/main580303.shtml).

of course, every human being matures at thier own pace, and there have doubtlessly been 15 year olds who are mature enough to make up thier own minds, but because those 15 year olds dont have 'ADULT' stamped onto thier forheads, we have to go by whats most common in society... and whats most common is that 15 year olds are children.

what if it was your 15 year old son or daughter being pestered by a 21 year old for naked pics of themselves?

[Brahman]

well i would trust that my child would be well aware of where to tell them to stick it. I have family that is around that age which i'm closer to then some people are to their own children.

funny really...

you say that...

yet how old are most models when they start working as sex symbols?

Society as a whole has its head up its ass when it comes to this. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that society as a whole does NOT have a firm grasp on when their "kids" quit being kids. One family boots their kids out at 18, some don't report their 15 year olds (or younger...) as run away, and yet anouther coddles their children through their 30's untill one day their child calls with a problem and they have to say "john, you're 40 now, its time you did these kinds of things on your own."

And while it wasn't the norm 30 - 40 years ago for a 15 year old to be out on their own, it certainly wasn't uncommon either. Without even trying to look i can name off three 45 - 55 year olds i know that were out in the workforce on their own by that age. I think alot of people would be shocked to know just how common it really was. (FYI, i'm not using people from one family as the three people i know. if i did that number would be far greater)

The simple fact is that there are 12 year old adults out there, and there are 23 year old children. While i feel sorry that the 12 year olds had to grow up so quickly i can honestly say i feel more sorry for the 23 year old. At least the 12 year old is prepared to deal with life as it really is.

[Lorie_Lavender]

while i strongly agree with you that most of america's children are far too coddled, and need to become more prepared for adulthood earlier, i believe even more firmly that 21 year old men who ask 15 year old children for naked pics of themselevs are evil people who need to not share the air i breathe.

exposing your child to the real world dangers out there like playground fights and the occasional injury from falling off a bike will make them stronger adults. throwing them in a cage with a hungry tiger will get you a dead child.

by far, most 'sex symbols' start thier career at 18+.

this debate, from my side at least, isnt about what age an adult is or how mature the 15 yera old in question is. its about how incredibly evil the 21 year old in question is. you keep talking about how mature the 15 year old is... what about how immature the 21 year old is? cant you see what a monster this person is?

most 21 year old men know how to keep it in thier pants around children. how can you excuse this one who cant?

just because there is the rare 15 year old who can handle this out there doesnt mean the rest of them need to be abused in this way. what this 21 year old did is wrong. it would have been wrong if he was doing it to a 40 year old. it would have been wrong if he was doing it to a 15 year old who could have handled it at 12.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Lorie_Lavender@Aug 1 2006, 06:32 AM
by far, most 'sex symbols' start thier career at 18+.
I think Lindsay Lohan started at 8 and the Olsen twins were what 3 months old...

J/K but you know what I mean, there was a website with and Olsen Twin 18th birthday countdown for Pete's Sake though.

[Ckador]

I started being a sex symbol around 13 or so. Towards the end of 8th grade-beginning of high school (9th grade).

[Xebitikz]

Originally posted by Rdarkwill@Jul 31 2006, 08:14 PM
The 21 year old is called a pedophile I agree

He needs to go to jail I disagree.
Jail is becoming (or has been for awhile) a problem. It is not reforming those who do time, and is a very LARGE drain on the system ( not that I agree with the system). We need to find another solution. Maybe not as drastic as instant execution in all cases, but something that instills fear in the types who commit the crimes. Sure, the average person does not wanna do time, but than again the average person will know the difference between right and wrong. And I hope most would pick the right thing for other reasons than fear of sittin for awhile.

The types we are talking about "predators" dont mind the rotating door our system provides. It's just part of their life, they are accustomed to jail life, and I know in certain cases they actually prefer it (which illustrates my point quite well). There HAS to be a penatly which causes them to stop and say " If i get busted, this is not worth it... nothing is". I do believe that certain people have some wiring missing upstairs, and this may sound harsh but, I think executions (if not instant, then within a month or less) should be far more common in cases of repeat offenders.

I could go on... but I just ran outta steam... =P

I think this is a good thread, lotta serious thoughts/opinions being passed back and forth.

(edit: Holy freakin' ninja postS Naji =P )
Well personally, I think a bullet to the head would work fine, and be cost effective. Society disagrees with me though. :(

[Schaeffer]

They ain't worth the price of a bullet, nooses are re-useable though...

[KB1]

Originally posted by Brahman@Jul 31 2006, 03:56 AM
seriously, when did 15 become a child?

within the last 30 years 15 was old enough to be out of your parents house, working on your own.

fucking get over it, give these "kids" some fucking responsability and maybee society will get back on track again.
You really are a fucking idiot.

[Rdarkwill]

Well personally, I think a bullet to the head would work fine, and be cost effective. Society disagrees with me though.

I don't disagree... plus I think the family of the victim (or the victim themselves) should have 1st dibs on pullin the trigger. <grin>


They ain't worth the price of a bullet, nooses are re-useable though...

Me and my family reload, it's actually pretty cheap. They could always be hung AND shot =)

[Brahman]

by far, most 'sex symbols' start thier career at 18+.

hahahahahha

you think these girls magically show up on every billboard when they turn 18? how about the singers? most of them in the last 5 - 10 years seem to have made it big around 14 - 16, and they were not exactly modest when they first came out.

No one can sit there with a straight face, having watched spears, lavine, and all those other slut singers come up and then tell me society says 15 is not an adult. *IF* society really thought that it would be illegal for the modeling, and entertainment industry to exploit these "children" sexually.

You have failed to process something here, i did not say that the 21 year old was in the right. I have only said that you will stop far more of these sex crimes by giving these "kids" the credit they are due and actually raising them rather then preventing them from growing up.

[najiwench]

i ask again.

do you think this guy should take the information he has on the 21 year old who propositioned him for nude pics and go to the authorities?

he did the right thing, he ended the conversation and blocked the guy from instant messaging him. but should he take the next step?

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by najiwench@Aug 1 2006, 11:35 PM
i ask again.

do you think this guy should take the information he has on the 21 year old who propositioned him for nude pics and go to the authorities?

he did the right thing, he ended the conversation and blocked the guy from instant messaging him. but should he take the next step?
You might want to have your friend expect for it to be either ignored, or for him to have to answer questions as to why he was in the M4M chat chan etc. Though his word or any logs he may posess won't matter, the police, should they become involved, may want him to participate in a sting to catch this guy, which might entail his participating in court etc. Some would shy away from such attention.

On the other hand, if you believe the person to be a threat then you may have some duty to act, even if that only means reporting the incident.

[Brahman]

much like anything thats really up to the individual.

I prolly would not had that happend to me, I would have told him where to shove it and thats that.

I had missed that your friend was in a male 4 male chat room though... ? is that something i missed or xislaben is imagining things? If its something i missed... No i wouldn't report someone for soliciting something from me in a sex chat channel lmao

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 2 2006, 12:03 AM
much like anything thats really up to the individual.

I prolly would not had that happend to me, I would have told him where to shove it and thats that.

I had missed that your friend was in a male 4 male chat room though... ? is that something i missed or xislaben is imagining things? If its something i missed... No i wouldn't report someone for soliciting something from me in a sex chat channel lmao
xis is imagining things..it was just a simple aim instant message chat..no channel, as far as i know..

[Lorie_Lavender]

do you think this guy should take the information he has on the 21 year old who propositioned him for nude pics and go to the authorities?

yes.

[Aoldar]

I defenitly think that it is wildly inappropraite, especially when i remember how i have played this game since 6 or 7. I had a dilemma earlier though, i was talking to this person in PoK and they mentioned they lived in West Texas, I had visited West Texas for a few weeks one time and really liked it so i asked them where in WT they lived. She (tourned out to be 12 year old girl) said she wasnt gonna tell me because she thought i was a wierdo. Everyone got pissed at me and told me to stop. I am only 15 and thought it was a pretty innocent question but now a whole bunch of poeple think i am a sicko.

[Aoldar]

So i definitly think there is a fine line between innocent question like mine, and plain SICK like his (not saying i have anything against gay people, it is aage difference that is gross).

[najiwench]

i ask people where abouts they are from all the time..that's ok, in my opinion and entirely in a person's right to tell or to refuse to tell..

saying "i live in west texas" is a pretty broad term...i grew up in texarkana, dallas, and hobbs, NM (pretty close to west texas) so "west texas" is even less exact than saying "rhode island" lol

but if she said "i'm afraind i can't tell you" then that's when you drop it and say that's cool...maybe mention where you visited, but that's fine..and if people get pissed off, then that's their problem...

but if you asked what her street address was and when ehr parents were going to be gone next....then there would be an issue :P

[Schaeffer]

So I was watching TV last night, and I saw a commercial. Basically it was a bunch of younger teens and pre-teens stating they had escaped attempted kidnappings. One 12 year old said "I'm stronger than a 250lb child molestor"

It made me think of this thread and I kinda felt good about that commercial, which was then immediately followed by a viagra commercial...

/doh

[Lorie_Lavender]

which was then immediately followed by a viagra commercial...

good grief.

ya know, back in the old days (you know, when we had to walk 3 miles to and from school, uphill both ways, in 6 feet of snow, and stocking feet), networks looked over thier programing to make sure things like that didnt happen.

----

i once told someone online the city i lived in. it turned out he lived about an hour from me. he ended up being an extreme freak and i almost had to get the police involved. his behavior went from just wierd to downright meanacing. i got several threats from him including one where he said 'i can find your house'. i finally got enough action taken against him in the online community we shared to get him to just leave me alone. but he scared the hell out of me for a while there.

since then i dont get too specific about anything online. i know im being paranoid and i know that out of the thousands of people ive talked to online, theres only a very few that i should actually be worried about... but i have to worry about those very few so much that its just not worth it to trust anyone with real life info.

[Hangman Gallows]

You should see the judges here in Mass. One guy raped several children about 5 years old and he got 6 months probation and time served. god damn liberal judges here.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

One guy raped several children about 5 years old and he got 6 months probation and time served. god damn liberal judges here. That has nothing to do with being liberal. That has everything to do with being fucking idiots.

*snip* *snip* + life, would be my solution to sick fucks like that.






// Can and do cuss once in a while.

[Rdarkwill]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Aug 8 2006, 02:13 PM


*snip* *snip* + life
I prefer
click, click and boom

[najiwench]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Aug 8 2006, 02:13 PM
One guy raped several children about 5 years old and he got 6 months probation and time served. god damn liberal judges here. That has nothing to do with being liberal. That has everything to do with being fucking idiots.

*snip* *snip* + life, would be my solution to sick fucks like that.






// Can and do cuss once in a while.
ZAAAAAAAP

would be my answer to them...they do no good alive, imo...unless we could use them for medical testing.

[Aoldar]

If you cut their dick off they have to live their entire life wishing they could have sex, the ultimate torture. cutting balls off i would remove sex drive (at least it does when you cut them off pre-puberty, i dunno about afterwards), and that would be no fun.

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Aoldar@Aug 9 2006, 05:29 PM
If you cut their dick off they have to live their entire life wishing they could have sex, the ultimate torture. cutting balls off i would remove sex drive (at least it does when you cut them off pre-puberty, i dunno about afterwards), and that would be no fun.
Ask Naji about her hubby, inquiring minds want to know!

[Hangman Gallows]

The correct thing to do would be to give them a sex change operation and send them into a prison where they are passed around until they die from internal bleeding.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Aug 9 2006, 10:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Aug 9 2006, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Aoldar@Aug 9 2006, 05:29 PM
If you cut their dick off they have to live their entire life wishing they could have sex, the ultimate torture. cutting balls off i would remove sex drive (at least it does when you cut them off pre-puberty, i dunno about afterwards), and that would be no fun.
Ask Naji about her hubby, inquiring minds want to know! [/b][/quote]
hehehe

well, technically nothing really was removed that will change his erm...drive.

just the route the swimmers take to get to the pool has been road blocked, so to speak.

but, right now...he's a little too tender and upset about it to even think...he has let me see the ouchie though..and it really doesn't look that bad..not nearly as bad as he would let you believe..

he said "there's gonna be a scar!!!"

i'm like..

1. no there's not...it's always wrinkly there..you won't tell a difference

and 2...who the hell is gonna be looking at it?????

[Hangman Gallows]

That is so cruel and unuasual tourture. You need to be thrown in prison for unhuman treatment of a husband.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Hangman Gallows@Aug 10 2006, 05:21 AM
That is so cruel and unuasual tourture. You need to be thrown in prison for unhuman treatment of a husband.
nobody held a gun to his head

and should i go into the things *I* have gone through?

3 vaginal deliveries

the 3 episiotomies

mastitis 3 times

thrush (fungal infection on the nipple, not uncommon in breast feeding moms) 4 times

2 epidurals

[Whispers Quietly]

Stunned; I'm not going there....... Not with a 10' pole.

However when I was in "Health Class" NM how many years ago. We were shown a "Swedish" birth film. Now; Swede babes can be hot. But there hospitals are a definate Downer.

It was in that class, right there and then That I decided . NEVER be a father.

Being in the delivery room is not really a Beautiful thing, It's REVENGE for getting us pregnant.....

Secondly; I've never been "snipped" because I prefer "Sports models rather than Station Wagons".

Thirdly; I'd stay on the boat and become a Lifer.........

I love being a Uncle, don't get me wrong. But your last post tottally confirmed that " I WAS RIGHT".................................................. ....

[najiwench]

meh, actually my hubby loved being in the delivery room..he describes it as "the most beautifully disgusting thing he's ever experienced in his life" and i've asked him, if he would do it different, now that he knows..and he says not for a million dollars...he was the first person besides the doctor to hold all three of our girls..

and, to bring this kinda back on topic...if anyone touches them i'll make them wish they had a vasectomy..because i won't use sterile equipment and there will definitely be no numbing medication

[Ckador]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Age_of_Consent.png

[najiwench]

pretty, ckador..did you color that yourself?

[Ckador]

Originally posted by najiwench@Aug 19 2006, 11:27 PM
pretty, ckador..did you color that yourself?
I did, during my girlfriend's Finger Painting class. ^__^

[najiwench]

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait..

wtf...

ckador has a girlfriend??? i thought he didn't like girls....

[Insalubrity]

ckador has a girlfriend??? i thought he didn't like girls....

He doesnt. He makes me wear a strap on during Recess or after nap times :(

[Ckador]

Originally posted by najiwench@Aug 20 2006, 02:58 AM
wait wait wait wait wait wait wait..

wtf...

ckador has a girlfriend??? i thought he didn't like girls....
Well you know what they say...the best thing about being in the shower with a 9 year old girl is when you slick her hair back she looks exactly like a 9 year old boy!

[Brahman]

that map is wrong.

michigan's age is 18 not 16, makes all the rest of the info suspect.

[Ckador]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 20 2006, 05:44 AM
that map is wrong.

michigan's age is 18 not 16, makes all the rest of the info suspect.
^ENEMY FOR LIFE

[Brahman]

lick my taint alright mr enemy man?

[Acly]

Grosscity
Population: This thread

[Xebitikz]

Michigan is 16.

[Brahman]

quasi true.

michigan is 16 can concent to a 17 year old.

NOT true as in a 16 year old can fuck a 30 year old.

[Xebitikz]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 22 2006, 04:39 PM
quasi true.

michigan is 16 can concent to a 17 year old.

NOT true as in a 16 year old can fuck a 30 year old.
Correct.

I think 16 y/o's can consent up to 21 and than it becomes 18? Don't remember. =p

[Brahman]

a 16 year old can consent to a 17 year old thats it.

a 14 year old can also consent to a 15 year old !

a 14 with a 16 year old however... the 16 year old can get up to 3 years for "sexual contact". I know the michigan law very well.

Personal rule, if you are going to be breaking the law, know it very well. (my HS sweety was 14 and was 14 months younger then me)

[Schaeffer]

So does that mean a 17 can consent to an 18?

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 23 2006, 08:14 AM
So does that mean a 17 can consent to an 18?
i don't think so...

but i could be wrong.

my g/f and i were broken up when she was that old so it no longer mattered to me. sex with her every few weeks wasn't worth doing the research haha

[Schaeffer]

lazy son of a...

[Brahman]

what?

i was working the next girl !

Seriously though, I don't know for sure but i'm fairly sure that is also not legal but who knows.

Am i the only one that thinks its funny i could have gone to jail if my HS g/fs mother found out about us having sex and didn't like me during those 2 months that she was "two years" younger then me? I mean, its a sex crime, if a judge had been an ass i could have been sent away as an adult. Its fucking disgusting how our legal system views "children".

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 23 2006, 07:40 PM
Am i the only one that thinks its funny i could have gone to jail if my HS g/fs mother found out about us having sex and didn't like me during those 2 months that she was "two years" younger then me? I mean, its a sex crime, if a judge had been an ass i could have been sent away as an adult. Its fucking disgusting how our legal system views "children".
i don't think it's funny, i think it needs serious revamping. my foster brother has had his life ruined because a 13 year old girl (his step daughter) had a crush on him, he got wasted one night, passed out, when her mom got home, she told her that he had messed with her.

that's all the army needed to lock him away, strip him of his rank and get him a dishonorable discharge. after he was convicted, she admitted that she had made it all up, but the case was closed.

[Aryse Andenter]

Canada's is as low as 12 if you begin counting the whole 'within so many years of age' thing:

What is Canada’s age of consent?

The age of consent is 18 years where the sexual activity involves exploitative activity, such as prostitution, pornography or where there is a relationship of trust, authority or dependency. For other sexual activity, the age of consent is 14 years.

Are there exceptions to this?

The Criminal Code provides what is often referred to as a “close in age” or “peer group” exception: a 12 or 13 year old can consent to engage in sexual activity with another person who is less than two years older and with whom there is no relationship of trust, authority or dependency.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/dept/clp/faq.html

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 23 2006, 07:40 PM
Am i the only one that thinks its funny i could have gone to jail if my HS g/fs mother found out about us having sex and didn't like me during those 2 months that she was "two years" younger then me?

not funny ha ha, funny queer

[Brahman]

go go parents that are to high to realize they just walked in on their daughter having sex !!!

damn she must have thought we cuddled/slept/talked alot.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 24 2006, 06:37 PM
go go parents that are to high to realize they just walked in on their daughter having sex !!!

damn she must have thought we cuddled/slept/talked alot.
don't delude yourself, her parents knew, they just didn't care enough to do anything about it.

[Brahman]

considering i bumped into her mom a year ago and she went on and on about how she had no idea....

if she knew, she wouldn't have brought it up at the grocery 5+ years later.

[Nizerns]

I guess, the problem I have with the question is when is someone an adult.

and I think that age limit needs to be for all things.

You can't say, well she shot someone, she should be tried as an adult, without also saying that she couldn't sleep with anyone she wanted.

I just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

If she or he is adult enough to be tried for murder he or she is adult enough to sleep with (or show naked pictures) to whomever they want.

(I also believe the drinking age should correspond to that age and voting)

Yes age is an imperfect system to set rules by, i wish we could have a "responsibility test" to determine whether someone was an adult.

(that has seriously dangerous implications however.)

So in conclusion, I believe that if a 15 year old could be tried as an adult for murder, he can show whomever he wants his naked pics, legally.

I do however, agree that it is morally impermissible to push anyone for naked pictures. I do believe that legally, a 15 year old is responsible for his actions.

However, i do believe it is the moderators duty to automatically ban any such individual from the site, and the person an email explaining why the action was done.

In the closing, let me reiterate, IT IS NOT MORALLY PERMISSIBLE TO PESTER SOMEONE FOR NAKED PICTURES. HOWEVER, FOR OUR LEGAL SYSTEM TO BE FREE OF CONFLICT, IT MUST DRAW A STRICT LINE FOR WHEN A CHILD BECOMES AN ADULT. I FIND THIS DO WHATEVER IT SUITES US WHENEVER ITS SUITES US EVEN MORE MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE.

sorry for that long winded reply, but the way we deal with the disction between minor and adult is an issue i find deeply disturbing.

[Dranul]

Ah, Georgia law is so silly. 16 is the age of consent to anyone, you can marry your second or third cousin, and if you're a guy and get a girl pregant, doesn't matter how old you are, you can marry her. Luckily, a number of test cases have come up recently, and hopefull we'll be giving those laws a do-over.

What's an adult is a fairly fundemental question of any culture. Some cultures don't think of you as an adult until you go through certain rites of passage, regardless of your chronological age. However, that important question aside, someone asking for naked pictures of someone that is not culturally considered an adult just compounds on the misconduct of asking for naked pictures from someone else.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 25 2006, 02:51 AM
considering i bumped into her mom a year ago and she went on and on about how she had no idea....

if she knew, she wouldn't have brought it up at the grocery 5+ years later.
then she was just stupid...

i found out along the way that all the shit i THOUGHT i was getting away with..my parents just didn't know how to deal with or didn't care enough..or something...(with my dad terminally ill, i got away with a lot of stuff)

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Dranul@Sep 8 2006, 09:25 PM
Ah, Georgia law is so silly. 16 is the age of consent to anyone, you can marry your second or third cousin, and if you're a guy and get a girl pregant, doesn't matter how old you are, you can marry her. Luckily, a number of test cases have come up recently, and hopefull we'll be giving those laws a do-over.

In a lot of states, and most of the world, you can marry your first cousin. And, on that tangent, there is little to no increased (depends on the study) risk of birth defects when first cousins have children together, and a decreased risk of some types of complication during pregnancy, including a decreased risk of miscarriage. Doesn't that knowledge from anthropology class come in handy? :)

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Sep 8 2006, 11:30 PM
In a lot of states, and most of the world, you can marry your first cousin. And, on that tangent, there is little to no increased (depends on the study) risk of birth defects when first cousins have children together, and a decreased risk of some types of complication during pregnancy, including a decreased risk of miscarriage. Doesn't that knowledge from anthropology class come in handy? :)
i know when you get as close as siblings in line breeding, you have an increased risk of genetic issues popping up...but first cousins i don't think is close enough...

[Brahman]

Originally posted by najiwench+Sep 8 2006, 06:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Sep 8 2006, 06:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Aug 25 2006, 02:51 AM
considering i bumped into her mom a year ago and she went on and on about how she had no idea....

if she knew, she wouldn't have brought it up at the grocery 5+ years later.
then she was just stupid...

i found out along the way that all the shit i THOUGHT i was getting away with..my parents just didn't know how to deal with or didn't care enough..or something...(with my dad terminally ill, i got away with a lot of stuff) [/b][/quote]
hence my comment about <3 parents that are to fucking stoned to know wtf is goign on.

/agree with the above cap lock statement 999999%

[Fayed]

iirc it takes 3 generations of inbreeding at the 1st cuz lvl for gene pool limitations to start popping up, and even then its not major.

[Raidjin]

All I have to say is:

I'm not going to comment on all the other moral, cultural, and societal issues that have cropped up over this.

Regardless of responsiblity level, a 15 year old is not equipped to deal with this situation....I know I wasn't.

Btw, at 15, I was working full time, attending school full time, with excellent grades, investing money (and doing it well), part owner of a successful gas station business, and driving daily without a license, but never got pulled over....because I drove RESPONSIBLY.

All the RESPONSIBILTY didn't equip me to deal with what happened to me.

Maybe Brahman can tell me what RESPONSIBILTY exactly would have?

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Raidjin@Sep 12 2006, 07:14 AM
All I have to say is:

I'm not going to comment on all the other moral, cultural, and societal issues that have cropped up over this.

Regardless of responsiblity level, a 15 year old is not equipped to deal with this situation....I know I wasn't.

Btw, at 15, I was working full time, attending school full time, with excellent grades, investing money (and doing it well), part owner of a successful gas station business, and driving daily without a license, but never got pulled over....because I drove RESPONSIBLY.

All the RESPONSIBILTY didn't equip me to deal with what happened to me.

Maybe Brahman can tell me what RESPONSIBILTY exactly would have?
yeah let me comment on some mystery "what happend to me" so you can turn around and make me out to be a jack ass.

Somethings, nothing can ever fully prepare you for. Should it happen to you when you are 85, 6, or 15 you just addapt and get over it, or you spend the rest of your life a babbling idiot. For instance war, some children handle the trama of war better then some people in the army.

If you think being prodded for nude pics is something that would have been so hard to deal with (omg i can't turn off the computer i MUST give him pics for he is an adult, and now i'm going to slit my wrists because i have been used!!!!!) I would just say that you are abnormal. Cause guess what?

15 year olds are prodded for nude pics every damn day.

All those online preditors showing up at one place... Do you think thats because most kids are saying "oh yeah sure come over"? NO!! they can get them all to show up at one house because 99% of kids tell them to go fuck themselves or just quit talking to that person right then and there.

Talking to your kids, telling them this WILL happen, and teaching them how they should handle it will make them so much safer then locking up 93,237 pedofiles ever could.

[najiwench]

while i don't agree with the WAY brahman just said what he did, i have to believe that he is not advocating letting pedophiles run loose, adn if they are caught harming children they deserve what the rest of the normal world believes they deserve...

but i have to say it is definately a good idea to teach our kids about the freaks and weirdos out there and how to protect themselves and when to run away. my girls know what parts of their body are for only themselves to touch, and that if ANYONE makes them even feel uncomfortable, they are to come to me, their grandma, or their daddy and tell us, no matter what.

and i've even told them that if it is me, their grandma or their daddy that makes them feel weird, then they are to go to another adult they can trust, their teacher or a friend's parent.

this way, should an incident arise where my 9 year old is on the computer and somebody asks her for a picture of herself, the dialogue is open so she can say "hey mom, this guy wants to know if i can send him a picture"

[Acly]

Originally posted by Brahman+Sep 12 2006, 05:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Sep 12 2006, 05:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Raidjin@Sep 12 2006, 07:14 AM
All I have to say is:

I'm not going to comment on all the other moral, cultural, and societal issues that have cropped up over this.

Regardless of responsiblity level, a 15 year old is not equipped to deal with this situation....I know I wasn't.

Btw, at 15, I was working full time, attending school full time, with excellent grades, investing money (and doing it well), part owner of a successful gas station business, and driving daily without a license, but never got pulled over....because I drove RESPONSIBLY.

All the RESPONSIBILTY didn't equip me to deal with what happened to me.

Maybe Brahman can tell me what RESPONSIBILTY exactly would have?
yeah let me comment on some mystery "what happend to me" so you can turn around and make me out to be a jack ass.

Somethings, nothing can ever fully prepare you for. Should it happen to you when you are 85, 6, or 15 you just addapt and get over it, or you spend the rest of your life a babbling idiot. For instance war, some children handle the trama of war better then some people in the army.

If you think being prodded for nude pics is something that would have been so hard to deal with (omg i can't turn off the computer i MUST give him pics for he is an adult, and now i'm going to slit my wrists because i have been used!!!!!) I would just say that you are abnormal. Cause guess what?

15 year olds are prodded for nude pics every damn day.

All those online preditors showing up at one place... Do you think thats because most kids are saying "oh yeah sure come over"? NO!! they can get them all to show up at one house because 99% of kids tell them to go fuck themselves or just quit talking to that person right then and there.

Talking to your kids, telling them this WILL happen, and teaching them how they should handle it will make them so much safer then locking up 93,237 pedofiles ever could. [/b][/quote]
/REPORT

[Brahman]

say what?

[Tryal Anderror]

Originally posted by Brahman@Sep 12 2006, 05:07 PM
15 year olds are prodded for nude pics every damn day.


I usually Take Tuesday off, but you're mostly right

[Wisecracker]

Lol. It's fine. As long as someone doesn't point a gun at a kid's head and force him to do something, there's nothing wrong. Although the parent has direct authority over the 15 year old, it's ultimately up to the 15 year old whether he or she does something or not. As for whether or not a 15 year old giving nude pictures ( lets skip the entire 'he has a choice and no one has done anything wrong' point ) to a 21 or someone of any other age for that matter is concerned, it's fine. Are you people insecure about nudity? Or do you think someone of a certain age is unable to comprehend or shouldnt be exposed to certain ideas and actions? A kid should be able to as long as his parents taught him right from wrong and princples ( And don't lie or teach them propaganda( preconceptions such as religion )). If you disagree, and think that 'omg, being exposed to sex or nudity, omg, evilness, satan', then you're probably a bad parent and will end up raising an ignorant human being ( heir to your throne ) or potentially a rapist, etc.

As for laws... Just because you'll be arrested for something doesn't make you wrong. I believe in standing up for your beliefs, irregardless of whether or not you're persecuted for them. :)

As for Raidjin saying he wasn't "equiped" to handle the situation then, he obviously wasn't exposed to the idea beforehand. Although he might have already pre-emptively assured himself that "no" is the only correct answer, that is purely up to his personal preference. Either way, although Raidjin lacked the proper experience to handle the situation, he quickly gained that experience firsthand. :P

[Insalubrity]

Yes because at 15 we are always good at making decisions when uncomfortable and having the full scope of consequences with reguards to sexuality.

HOLY RESURRECTION BATMAN!

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 17 2006, 09:13 AM
1. Are you people insecure about nudity?
2. Or do you think someone of a certain age is unable to comprehend or shouldnt be exposed to certain ideas and actions?

A kid should be able to as long as his parents taught him right from wrong and princples ( And don't lie or teach them propaganda( preconceptions such as religion )). If you disagree, and think that 'omg, being exposed to sex or nudity, omg, evilness, satan', then you're probably a bad parent and will end up raising an ignorant human being ( heir to your throne ) or potentially a rapist, etc.

1. absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that i want my daughters handing out nude photos of themselves to strangers.

2. there is definitely an age limit to what a child should be exposed to. for instance, my daughters know about sex and how babies are made, but they are blissfully unaware of some of the more lurid details. i don't think ten years old is an appropriate age to discuss anal sex, oral sex, or other forms of such activity, however they know what parts of their bodies are their own, for them to explore and enjoy, and are not for any other person to experience.

and yes, you are right..IF the parents teach them right from wrong, a kid should be ok..but that doesn't excuse a person who is clearly of age soliciting from a person who is clearly NOT of age. that is wrong, the law says it is wrong. the law is there for a reason.

the kid in the OP did the right thing, he told the guy to screw off then blocked him from IM. but the frightening thing is that this guy is still out there, still able to solicit other kids, who may not have had the right foundation to make the right decisions.

you seem to have a blame the victim mentality...rapists are fine because women shouldn't put themselves in the position to be raped...wife beaters, great! if a woman had any self respect she'd leave the bastard, right?

[Wisecracker]

Originally posted by najiwench+Nov 18 2006, 04:34 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Nov 18 2006, 04:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wisecracker@Nov 17 2006, 09:13 AM
1. Are you people insecure about nudity?
2. Or do you think someone of a certain age is unable to comprehend or shouldnt be exposed to certain ideas and actions?

A kid should be able to as long as his parents taught him right from wrong and princples ( And don't lie or teach them propaganda( preconceptions such as religion )). If you disagree, and think that 'omg, being exposed to sex or nudity, omg, evilness, satan', then you're probably a bad parent and will end up raising an ignorant human being ( heir to your throne ) or potentially a rapist, etc.

1. absolutely not, but that doesn't mean that i want my daughters handing out nude photos of themselves to strangers.

2. there is definitely an age limit to what a child should be exposed to. for instance, my daughters know about sex and how babies are made, but they are blissfully unaware of some of the more lurid details. i don't think ten years old is an appropriate age to discuss anal sex, oral sex, or other forms of such activity, however they know what parts of their bodies are their own, for them to explore and enjoy, and are not for any other person to experience.

and yes, you are right..IF the parents teach them right from wrong, a kid should be ok..but that doesn't excuse a person who is clearly of age soliciting from a person who is clearly NOT of age. that is wrong, the law says it is wrong. the law is there for a reason.

the kid in the OP did the right thing, he told the guy to screw off then blocked him from IM. but the frightening thing is that this guy is still out there, still able to solicit other kids, who may not have had the right foundation to make the right decisions.

you seem to have a blame the victim mentality...rapists are fine because women shouldn't put themselves in the position to be raped...wife beaters, great! if a woman had any self respect she'd leave the bastard, right? [/b][/quote]
1. Then teach them that it's wrong. If this doesn't work then I don't think anyone can stop them aside from abusing/beating them into submission, which is wrong, and undoubtedly worse than handing out any amount of nude photos would be. Which isn't to say that handing out nude photos is bad in the first place, which is simply a moral standpoint ( aka opinion).

2. Age limit? That's your opinion. I think anyone of any age is capable of "dealing" ( ironically, the only people who have problems "dealing" with certain things are the ones who weren't exposed to it sooner ) with it. Your daughters (although I am not sure of their age.. 10 you said?) have probably heard 10x worse( bad terminology suggesting that it's bad in the first place.. perhaps 10x open? Not sure. ) at school or on the internet ( hey, lets pretend we can't search this forum for your exact post ) or any other source of open knowledge. And their bodies are for whatever they decide they are. If I want to let some stranger tie me up and do whatever, then that's my choice, although I wouldn't suggest it (this is where principles and common sense come in ). But hey, if anyone tries to stop me from doing what I want, then that's stepping on my rights. Now it just depends on good parents who knows how to raise a child, since children apparently have no rights.

And the person "of age" soliciting pictures from a person not "of age" is not wrong. Although he may be in violation of the law, that doesn't make him wrong. You probably thought robin hood was wrong too. Or martin luther, or ghandi, or anyone else standing up for themselves and their rights in the face of the majority and/or authority.

And no, rapist's aren't fine. They're forcing people to have sexual relations, when the other person obviously doesn't want to and expressed that. Let me know when that "solicitor" shows up at the boy's house with a knife and says "give me pictures". The same applies with "wife beaters". The wife obviously expressed she didn't want to be beaten. If she didn't express that, then it's no one's business except her and her husbands. Next we'll be hearing about cops busting in and arresting practitioners of BDSM ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM ).

[Fayed]

Just to remind people.

In most sexual child abuse cases, the perp is a realitive or close aquatience ( nanny, babysitter,daycare worker)

So while yes the online stuff does happen, chances are that bad guy is sitting at the table at Thanksgiving.

IMO Shows do not depict pedofiles correctly. Most "pedofiles" A) never commit the crime, just maintain an intrest in it, B.) commit the crime but with a child close to them ( easyer to control). The horrible child rapest whos killed 34 litle girls are actually mentaly ill and use the facination with children as a release. There not as common as TV makes them out to be.

And i know someone is gona bring it up ( or has already i stoped readin round page 5) But the Calathic church thing. IMO I doubt all of the people claiming abuse were really abused. Theres always the possibility of planted memories, IE the Psyciatrist asks you leading questions and your mind fabricates a memory to support it.

As to the OP's question, It depends on the child. There is a lack of responcibility in todays kids. There lots of reasons. Partialy its the parents deciding the kid's a saint and it must be the other persons fault bad thing X happened.

ok rant off

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 19 2006, 12:22 AM
And the person "of age" soliciting pictures from a person not "of age" is not wrong. Although he may be in violation of the law, that doesn't make him wrong. You probably thought robin hood was wrong too. Or martin luther, or ghandi, or anyone else standing up for themselves and their rights in the face of the majority and/or authority.

http://216.220.97.17/

[Brahman]

Originally posted by najiwench+Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wisecracker@Nov 19 2006, 12:22 AM
And the person "of age" soliciting pictures from a person not "of age" is not wrong. Although he may be in violation of the law, that doesn't make him wrong. You probably thought robin hood was wrong too. Or martin luther, or ghandi, or anyone else standing up for themselves and their rights in the face of the majority and/or authority.

http://216.220.97.17/ [/b][/quote]
lol they don't have a url?

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman+Nov 21 2006, 03:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Nov 21 2006, 03:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM
http://216.220.97.17/
lol they don't have a url? [/b][/quote]
i guess not...that's all i got from google...

[Wisecracker]

Originally posted by najiwench+Nov 21 2006, 03:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Nov 21 2006, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Brahman@Nov 21 2006, 03:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM
http://216.220.97.17/
lol they don't have a url?
i guess not...that's all i got from google... [/b][/quote]
NAMBLA's fine. Might as well just mysteriously say "http://www.christianity.com/".

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 23 2006, 06:47 AM
NAMBLA's fine.
how did i know you would feel that way :blink:

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Wisecracker+Nov 23 2006, 01:47 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Wisecracker @ Nov 23 2006, 01:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by najiwench@Nov 21 2006, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Brahman@Nov 21 2006, 03:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM
http://216.220.97.17/
lol they don't have a url?
i guess not...that's all i got from google...
NAMBLA's fine. Might as well just mysteriously say "http://www.christianity.com/". [/b][/quote]
care to explain the moral reasoning that nambla is fine?

I mean...

I SERIOUSLY disagree with the current "of age" laws in this country and that organization sickens me still.

[Wisecracker]

Originally posted by Brahman+Nov 23 2006, 07:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Nov 23 2006, 07:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 23 2006, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by najiwench@Nov 21 2006, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by Brahman@Nov 21 2006, 03:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-najiwench@Nov 19 2006, 05:01 PM
http://216.220.97.17/
lol they don't have a url?
i guess not...that's all i got from google...
NAMBLA's fine. Might as well just mysteriously say "http://www.christianity.com/".
care to explain the moral reasoning that nambla is fine?

I mean...

I SERIOUSLY disagree with the current "of age" laws in this country and that organization sickens me still. [/b][/quote]
Because they're not hurting anyone. I agree that they are sick bastards but that's just my opinion. And I don't see why my opinion should stomp out the love between anyone, or anything.

[Insalubrity]

umm...because children cant comprehend their actions. Thats why.

You cannot say theyre not hurting anyone when they find children who dont know better and end up forcing themselves on them. Its called rape.

I have no problem letting people love each other sexually or otherwise if theyre two CONSENTING adults.

[Nizerns]

The Problem I find with this debate is what is a Child.

Okay, We can all agree, that 5 is a child.

And I believe we all agree, that 18, isn't a child.

The problem is, the years 14-17.

I believe that whatever age we set by allowing a child to be tried as an adult most also be the same age, we consider all children adults.

[Brahman]

Nambla

the b is BOY

They are not talking about 14 - 17 year olds.

I would agree with you about the 14 - 17 year olds, Nambla is still WRONG.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 25 2006, 10:41 AM
Because they're not hurting anyone. I agree that they are sick bastards but that's just my opinion. And I don't see why my opinion should stomp out the love between anyone, or anything.
but they ARE hurting people.

[Fayed]

Being attracted to boys isnt illegal. It itsnt even wrong, whats wrong is when you act on those feelings. This can be in actual molestation cases or child porn cases. There are ways of dealing with it with out breaking the law though. We can use computers to make a 19yo nude model look like he's 11, and this is completely legal. Also drawn/CGI type images depicting pornographic material dealing with children is legal IIRC.

Yea pedofelia is sick, but A.) Its a recognized mental condition, and B.) the people are human, so we cant treat them like crap.

NAMBLA Is perfectly ok as long as their acts dont break any laws, which im not sure if they have/do.

[najiwench]

Our goal is to end the oppression of men and boys who have freely chosen, mutually consensual relationships

from the nambla home page

they want to remove the age of consent for sex, so they can fuck little boys

while i don't find it appealing, i don't have a problem with fictional pornographic material involving fictional children...nobody is harmed in that.

when it goes from fictional to factual, however, i have a SERIOUS problem with it...

[Whispers Quietly]

This Column still going on? Makes one wonder why it's being kept alive...

Justification or curiosity?

What i think is more Curious is who is keeping it alive?, No one has contributed anything useful in , well since this columns inception.

Get over it; Child porn is wrong... What is there to debate?

Justification or Curiosity; That seems to be only only question left after maybe the fourth post.

The CHILD was improperly hit on; A MAJOR CRIME. NOTHING LEFT TO TALK ABOUT.... Gross Misdemeanor, 3 years max in prison; 2 years with Good time...

Talk about it some more, But what is that motivation? Justification, Or Curiosity?

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Nov 26 2006, 09:50 PM
This Column still going on? Makes one wonder why it's being kept alive...

Justification or curiosity?

What i think is more Curious is who is keeping it alive?, No one has contributed anything useful in , well since this columns inception.

Get over it; Child porn is wrong... What is there to debate?

Justification or Curiosity; That seems to be only only question left after maybe the fourth post.

The CHILD was improperly hit on; A MAJOR CRIME. NOTHING LEFT TO TALK ABOUT.... Gross Misdemeanor, 3 years max in prison; 2 years with Good time...

Talk about it some more, But what is that motivation? Justification, Or Curiosity?
the interchange of idea's reguarding societies sense of age, and whats apporpriate or not.

We don't all agree and the discussion of the topic is not really trying to justify someone's actions.

The question it seems no one really agrees upon is exactly what age should be considered a child?

[Wisecracker]

Originally posted by najiwench+Nov 25 2006, 09:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (najiwench @ Nov 25 2006, 09:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Wisecracker@Nov 25 2006, 10:41 AM
Because they're not hurting anyone. I agree that they are sick bastards but that's just my opinion. And I don't see why my opinion should stomp out the love between anyone, or anything.
but they ARE hurting people. [/b][/quote]
No. You seem to have a problem. When you picture a NAMBLA guy and a boy,.. do it right now, in your head. Is the boy happy? Maybe that's the problem. They aren't hurting anyone. NAMBLA doesn't want to rape kids.

Insalubrity, kids can comprehend their actions. Unless you aren't raising them properly. And if they weren't raised correctly, then they'll end up learning from experience. Once again we're not talking about rape. If they "don't know better", as you said, then they weren't raised correctly. If they weren't raised correctly and are faced with the situation and just say 'yeah, whatever' then, not only were they not raised correctly but, they'll get experience handling the situation for themselves. And saying 'yeah' when some guy asks you to have 'sex' and regretting it later isn't rape. You can express wanting to stop at anytime. If the older man doesn't listen, then it's rape, and should be handled accordingly.

Nizerns. That's a good question, but kind of irrelevent. Everyone is a person, and you're generalizing/stereotyping people who have been alive for a certain amount of time capable of handling different stuff. Which ultimately doesn't matter. Everyone is different, and therefore, can be considered able to handle different situations at different times in their lives. I'm sure there are plenty of 40 year olds who can't handle lots of situations, that plenty of 15 year olds, can. Right? So then the government tries to come in and generalize everyone and forcing their opinions on them. What if they passed a law forbidding anyone under 40 from typing on forums because Bob the 39 year old wasn't capable of it? It's the exact same thing. OH and being tried as an adult/minor? Eliminate that too, unless they're going to start letting people get by with ignorance of the law "omfg I didn't know it was illegal to shoot someone!"

Archerphate, "It itsnt even wrong, whats wrong is when you act on those feelings.". Opinion. No different than saying that about any other situation. What about if it was a 40 year old man and a 30 year old woman? The ages are irrelevent. Would you say that acting on their feelings is wrong? Right, that would be stupid. "This can be in actual molestation cases or child porn cases." No, that's a case of raping someone and a case of the laws trying to regulate your life and censoring what you see. Apparently if a 30 year old is attracted to a 9 year old, he can't come up to him/her and say 'hey, I really like you.. ' like normal people? Uh-huh. "We can use computers to make a 19yo nude model look like he's 11, and this is completely legal." yeah, I heard if you look at a turkey and squint your eyes, it looks like a adolescent's vagina. Oh god no, think of the kids! "Yea pedofelia is sick, but A.) Its a recognized mental condition, and B.) the people are human, so we cant treat them like crap." Opinion. It's a "mental condition" as much as you wanting to have sex with your husband/wife is a "mental condition" Rofl. People are human, so we can't treat them like crap? What's that supposed to mean? You think you're better than them? self-righteous? "NAMBLA Is perfectly ok as long as their acts dont break any laws, which im not sure if they have/do." I suppose that, much like the law I mentioned before, making a law against being able to read books is perfectly fine? And anyone reading a book after this law is established is "wrong"?

najiwench, "they want to remove the age of consent for sex, so they can fuck little boys" And? How about we use some more buzzwords to offend self-righteous people. How about lets make a law to help protect little old ladies from being fucked by young men? Because we all know that little old ladies can't make decisions! We all know that it's impossible to consent and be happy in a relationship with people of different ages! "nobody is harmed in that." No one is harmed in reality either. "when it goes from fictional to factual, however, i have a SERIOUS problem with it" so let's step on other people's opinions and happiness ( once again, you're that guy who pictures the boy as not being happy ) to make our preference LAW! heck yes.. oh wait, the law is already stepping on their freedom and pursuit of happiness, damn.

Whispers quietly, "This Column still going on? Makes one wonder why it's being kept alive..." Lol, It was like several months old and I posted in it, because I found the amount of child neglection and right-stomping rampantly abundant. Sorry for bringing up an old topic, however. "Get over it; Child porn is wrong" Opinion. "Justification or Curiosity; That seems to be only only question left after maybe the fourth post." How about the truth? That's why I posted. I'm already in search of the truth. I think knowledge is an amazing thing. "The CHILD was improperly hit on; A MAJOR CRIME. NOTHING LEFT TO TALK ABOUT.... Gross Misdemeanor, 3 years max in prison; 2 years with Good time..." I see your familiar with the abuse of the law. People forcing their opinions on others. "Talk about it some more, But what is that motivation? Justification, Or Curiosity?" the truth.

[BlackHeart]

No. You seem to have a problem. When you picture a NAMBLA guy and a boy,.. do it right now, in your head. Is the boy happy? Maybe that's the problem. They aren't hurting anyone. NAMBLA doesn't want to rape kids.

Yes they do. Anytime anyone has sex with a kid it is rape. Kids are not adults. They are not equipped to make their own decisions about important things like this. That's why we don't let them vote, drink alcohol, drive cars or require them to support themselves.

I'll repeat and try to type really slow so maybe you will understand it this time:

Anytime anyone has sex with a kid it is rape.

No exceptions. No excuses. End of story.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Nov 28 2006, 12:14 PM
No. You seem to have a problem. When you picture a NAMBLA guy and a boy,.. do it right now, in your head. Is the boy happy? Maybe that's the problem. They aren't hurting anyone. NAMBLA doesn't want to rape kids.
they want the laws changed so that what they do can be legal, but morally it is still rape.

if you walked up to my four year old, and offered her favorite kind of popsicle, i'm fairly certain that she would let you do just about anything you wanted to do to her. however, that does NOT constitute consent. and if i caught somebody doing that, i would rip their testicles out through their throat and shove them up their ass.

and, yes, i have taught her what parts of her body are for her to touch and what parts are ok for other people, we have that discussion a lot, as she is quite the exhibitionist..but because she is innocent and wants to show off her body, does not mean that she is inviting some adult to put his body parts inside her.

they ARE hurting people, when kids grow up with distorted ideas of what is and is not acceptable sexual behavior, when they grow up believing that sex is something you can bribe people for, when they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel too guilty or ashamed to tell anyone...it doesn't have to be a physical injury for the child to be damaged.

god, this just turns my fucking stomach that people defend this shit...jesus christ on a pogostick

and, for the record, i'm the MOTHER (not a guy) of three daughters, with a son on the way...and i hope you rot in hell if you EVER lay a finger on a child, you sick motherfucking bastard

[Insalubrity]

WTB modship so I can ban this troll.

You obviously dont remember what it was like to be 13 and under because if you did then you would know that kids CANNOT completely grasp their situation. There is a world of difference between a 40 year old wanting sex from a 30 year old and a 25 year old wanting sex from a 15 year old. You cannot say that there isnt going to be manipulation on either end. Your analogy is a flawed one because of maturity differences. I am all for one making mistakes and fucking up in relationships because that is how we learn. I do not say that all relationships with a 10 year gap are bad or inappropriate even if the person is young however there is a consideration to be made about maturity and intentions. Im sure there are 15 year olds out there that could handle a relationship with a 25 year old but they are far and few between. We cannot make rules by exceptions but by the common.

Kids cant comprehend how psychologically damaging this is. Pedophiles beget pedophiles. Im guessing you are one too Wisecracker and lemme guess, you just wanna "love" kids. Its rape. There is a world of difference between 2 13-15 year olds having sex then a younger and an older person. Its not how you raise them, its maturity levels. A concept you seem unable to grasp.

I will support the right to say whatever you wish but when words become actions that is where the line is drawn.

[Brahman]

Insalubrity, kids can comprehend their actions. Unless you aren't raising them properly. And if they weren't raised correctly, then they'll end up learning from experience. Once again we're not talking about rape. If they "don't know better", as you said, then they weren't raised correctly. If they weren't raised correctly and are faced with the situation and just say 'yeah, whatever' then, not only were they not raised correctly but, they'll get experience handling the situation for themselves. And saying 'yeah' when some guy asks you to have 'sex' and regretting it later isn't rape. You can express wanting to stop at anytime. If the older man doesn't listen, then it's rape, and should be handled accordingly.


kinds can comprehend things, kids can be taught things, and kids can be "taught" the wrong things are right.

If your dad taught you that you as a little boy you are suppose to, and have a duty to, sexually satisfy your dady...

That is why there are age of consent laws.

I disagree with where that age is, but i don't disagree with the concept or think that its all that far off. The very lowest it really should be is about 14 IMO, but thats really besides the point because it has to be somewhere. You seem to be supporting a complete removal of such laws, so that there is nothing wrong with bringing your daughter home from the hospital and fucking her that night.

[najiwench]

one thing to think about.

it is 100% UNNATURAL to be attracted to children. period.

and i'm talking pre-pubescent humans.

it does not occur in the animal kingdom, there is no rationale behind it, it is simply an illness, and it does harm the child, because it teaches the child that it is normal, and that child is then coerced into believing that it is normal to grow up and want to have sex with children.

sex with children brings about children who have no sexual inhibitions, increases the risk of the children growing up to engage in promiscuous activity, leaving them open to disease...for girls and women, sexual encounters before the age of 16 GREATLY increases their risks for cervical cancers.

you can try to rationalize your illness all you want, but what you are doing is spreading your sickness, trying to condone your own sick actions, and leading more children down the path to be abusers.

if you feel that having sex with a pre-pubescent child is in any way ok, get yourself to a psychiatric facility and get help, before you hurt somebody. please.

now, after puberty, the gray areas appear...personally, i have no problem with most current laws regarding age of consent and sex. i don't have a problem with two fifteen year old kids experimenting with each other, as i see a big difference between that and a 25 year old person being with a 15 year old person.

the life experiences and maturity levels are just too great to make it "ok"...though if that 25 year old is truly in love enough with the under age person, then they can wait until it is legal.

[Brahman]

it does not occur in the animal kingdom...

this is actually not true. Dolphins show pediphilic tendancies from time to time, the pod kills the offending member.


the life experiences and maturity levels are just too great to make it "ok"...though if that 25 year old is truly in love enough with the under age person, then they can wait until it is legal.

I disagree with what i bolded, but i agree with the rest of it. Frankly I do have a respect for the law, even the parts i disagree with.

I agree 100% with at the LEAST calling prepubesent children off limits, and agree ANYONE with an attraction towards prepubesents has a problem, and i don't mean a legal one ;)

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Nov 28 2006, 11:41 PM
it does not occur in the animal kingdom...

this is actually not true. Dolphins show pediphilic tendancies from time to time, the pod kills the offending member.

interesting..

but then, dolphins are some randy bastards..but the pod kills the offending member..meaning that even to stupid animals, it's not ok

[Nekrax]

Originally posted by najiwench@Nov 28 2006, 04:50 PM
and, for the record, i'm the MOTHER (not a guy) of three daughters, with a son on the way...and i hope you rot in hell if you EVER lay a finger on a child, you sick motherfucking bastard
So tell us how you really feel :lol:

I'm gonna have to agree with you. If someone touched my 10 year old girl, there isn't an army in the world that could keep me from doing unspeakable things to that individual.

[LostAngel]

This brings me to all these judges giving child molesters probation. What's his name? Casheman in Vermont, and there was another wackjob here lately.
I personally would never have to worry about that part. Anyone molesting my child would definately never get probation, regardless of the judge having jurisdiction. The only person on trial would be me. For homicide. I live in Texas. I am a redneck. I carry a concealed weapon. My parents raised me right. Discipline is one thing, but if you abuse a child in any way, regardless of what some shrink tells a judge, you do not deserve to live.
There is a reason that child molesters do not last long in prison. Even the trash of society does not tolerate abuse of children or the elderly. General population just eats them alive. Put a child rapist, or someone who molests the elderly in general population and they will not last out the week. Nor should they.

[Fayed]

Factoid!

Pedophilia is legally defined as sexually explicit engagement with a prepubescent minor. the line of pubescent is different from state to state. If the minor is pubescent or post pubescent it is considered statutory rape (even if no penetration occurs).

The point of being pubescent is debatable. Generally, kids start puberty at 10(girls) 12(boys) although some start as early as 8 or 9 ( both).

These people are sick. I completely agree they should be locked up. Advocating violence against them is another matter. Remember that between 10-25% of adult males have these tendencies. To kill them all is on par with genocide and crimes against humanity. Statistically few of them actually act on their feelings.

Lock them up, get them help. They may never be cured but institutionalizing them prevents them from hurting others. Killing them is just as morally corrupt as them acting on their feelings.

With the popularity of this thread I pose a question. How many of you have actually been in contact with a pedophile and how many of you are just basing you perceptions on what you see on TV( which does not portray any real pedophiles accurately)?

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Remember that between 10-25% of adult males have these tendenciesRandom factiod: 87.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot and have no valid use in a discussion :P 10-25% seems like a bogus stat in other words.

[Lylith]

Originally posted by archerphate@Nov 29 2006, 06:41 PM
Factoid!

Pedophilia is legally defined as sexually explicit engagement with a prepubescent minor. the line of pubescent is different from state to state. If the minor is pubescent or post pubescent it is considered statutory rape (even if no penetration occurs).

The point of being pubescent is debatable. Generally, kids start puberty at 10(girls) 12(boys) although some start as early as 8 or 9 ( both).

These people are sick. I completely agree they should be locked up. Advocating violence against them is another matter. Remember that between 10-25% of adult males have these tendencies. To kill them all is on par with genocide and crimes against humanity. Statistically few of them actually act on their feelings.

Lock them up, get them help. They may never be cured but institutionalizing them prevents them from hurting others. Killing them is just as morally corrupt as them acting on their feelings.

With the popularity of this thread I pose a question. How many of you have actually been in contact with a pedophile and how many of you are just basing you perceptions on what you see on TV( which does not portray any real pedophiles accurately)?
I have no problem with culling the herd of humanity from these freaks. heck, I'll even help!

[Rijak]

I'm not to big on killing people, but I think anyone found guilty of pedophilia should be jailed (or institutionalized) for life with no chance at parole.

Whether it is a mental issue or not, it's not the type of crime that you can ever risk ever happening again.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by archerphate@Nov 29 2006, 06:41 PM
Factoid!

Pedophilia is legally defined as sexually explicit engagement with a prepubescent minor. the line of pubescent is different from state to state.* If the minor is pubescent or post pubescent it is considered statutory rape (even if no penetration occurs).

The point of being pubescent is debatable.* Generally, kids start puberty at 10(girls) 12(boys) although some start as early as 8 or 9 ( both).

These people are sick.* I completely agree they should be locked up.* Advocating violence against them is another matter.* Remember that between 10-25% of adult males have these tendencies.* To kill them all is on par with genocide and crimes against humanity.* Statistically few of them actually act on their feelings.

Lock them up, get them help.* They may never be cured but institutionalizing them prevents them from hurting others.* Killing them is just as morally corrupt as them acting on their feelings.

With the popularity of this thread I pose a question.* How many of you have actually been in contact with a pedophile and how many of you are just basing you perceptions on what you see on TV( which does not portray any real pedophiles accurately)?
nope, i say remove them from society completely and permanently, and the best and most efficient way to do that is to kill them.

now, i don't really mean to torture them to death, but lethal injection works nicely, imo.

the good they could bring to society does not outweigh the harm they will bring, so they should be removed. all of them. anyone who is caught laying a hand in a sexual manner on a child who has not yet reached puberty (and note i didn't say a child under the age of xxx...)

(however, as peaceful a person as i really am, if i were to find out that somebody did something to one of my children, i would have a hard time controlling myself, and if i caught them in the act, i can almost guarantee that there would be bloodshed)

*edit* Genocide: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

these are not any of the above, so it is not genocide. it is protecting society from harm.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I would guess there are far less than "millions" of men in this country that have committed Pedophilia. However, the number is still probably disgustingly large.

I would be infavor of much, much harsher penalties for pedophiles, and far worse penalties for repeat offenders. A repeat offender should be taken out of society for good - whether that means mental institution, prison, or some other form of lifelong removal from society.

I am positive a prison island for criminals like this should be considered. Something that wouldn't have to be a total prison (limited freedoms and contact with the outside world) but would remove criminals of various crimes from society permanently without the fight of the death penalty.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Nov 29 2006, 09:07 PM
I am positive a prison island for criminals like this should be considered. Something that wouldn't have to be a total prison (limited freedoms and contact with the outside world) but would remove criminals of various crimes from society permanently without the fight of the death penalty.
yeah, ask australians how well that worked :D

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Australia as a prison was poorly implemented, not well thought out and almost impractical for the age of their technology. It didn't help there was an indiginous population already living there.

I would even use the term island loosely, more as a description of cutting off from the outside world. Take an area of some underpopulated state, Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, the Dakotas. Make a 25 mi x 25 mi (625 sq. mile) area - make a large fence, similar to that of the designs for along the mexican border. Start out the facility with living quarters and a variety of job opportunities. Provide the ability and flexibility of inmates to create new opportunities and export products. Allow them to import products (obviously large list of contraband). Let them function as a society removed from society.

Have it function as just a microsociety. It would be easy for a relatively small staff of guards to patrol. The only things you would be prevented from doing would be like importing contraband (weapons, drugs etc), no leaving the facility, but allow limited family access at a "meeting station". Allow limited contact with the outside world - Phone, TV and monitored Internet access.

Why could this not work as a way to remove criminals of certain crimes to live mostly normal lives, but as a form of life sentence they are forced to live separated from the mainstream society after they have served some time in a general prison.

I don't think you could do this with truly violent offenders, but I don't see why non-violent criminals (I hesitate calling Pedophilia non-violent, but I don't clasify it in the same category as Murder, generally) that need to be removed from society forever couldn't live a somewhat normal life after they have served their proper sentance and still be entirely removed from society for fear of repeating the offense.

[Nadori]

Boy Hitler would be proud of you guys

haha just kidding.


Child molestation is a crime that makes me just sick to my stomach and they deffinetly should have harsher penalties. I think you guys are over reacting a bit. It's like back in the days when Witches were considered worse than murderers (or something like that). You guys are practically crying "burn the witch"

We as a society should be more aware of the sexual offenders that are out there and should be teaching our children something to where they would feel confortable coming foward. If i child knows their daddy was gonna die if they tell that he touched her inaproprietly...the child is less likely to even consider telling.
Also acomplish a way to where they don't have to face the person in court....for kids thats terrifying.

So basically nowday not nearly enough children are coming foward (even for actual Rape and phisical abuse) and what you guys are sugesting will only make things worse. Solution is more awareness.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Solution is more awareness./sigh leave it to your level head :D I can't argue with that. :)

[Brahman]

when someone with tits says it you can't argue with it, when i say it i'm a fucking pro-pedofilia crazy....

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I said nothing of the sort.

[Brahman]

wasn't person specific, just a general observation.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

But you addressed it (I assume) to my agreement with Nadori. No one else has posted in agreement or disagreement, so doesn't that make your "general comment" less general and more inaccurate? :D

[Whispers Quietly]

Lets the Breath out.... Whewww; Ok lets talk.
Clearly this post went beyond the original question. I answered here twice, once was originally as how it was against the law; my second post was why it's being kept alive.... i've tried avoiding this post for , well; from 23-47 years of age: what 24 years? sounds about right..
I have dealt with a pedophile; the fall out. Wanting to kill him constantly day in, day out. A step father my sister married with her two daughters. Single women with 2 daughters, still want love and companionship. A partner for life.
You want to know what it's like? Hell; Thats what I felt at 23... Protecting my sister and nieces at 23.
I hung out at bars, certain bars that I knew he frequented. The owner knew what, who I was looking for. Biker bars. No fuck around bars. If He walked in, I was Prepared to kill him.
The only reason I'm spilling the beans now, is Thearaputic; I don't want to talk about this. I'd rather kill him. I won't, been 24 years now, still looking for him; Oh But the asshole called my mom 3 weeks ago. wanting to talk to his victim...
I got myself thrown into jail years ago, I let the Jail personel know who he was, what he was. Oh, and the proper prisoners who he was....
Molestation effects way more than the Victim; I've dealt with it for 24 years as well the original victim. she was 6, now 30 and still is effected......

If brahman has anything to say: please Shoot his ass...

[najiwench]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Nov 29 2006, 09:20 PM
Australia as a prison was poorly implemented, not well thought out and almost impractical for the age of their technology. It didn't help there was an indiginous population already living there.
erm..my comment was more tongue in cheek than you seemed to recognize :P

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Nov 29 2006, 10:25 PM
when someone with tits says it you can't argue with it, when i say it i'm a fucking pro-pedofilia crazy....
it's the way she said it, pumpkin

[GnekroeGnomicon]

erm..my comment was more tongue in cheek than you seemed to recognize Been a long day :P

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Nov 29 2006, 06:40 PM
Lets the Breath out.... Whewww; Ok lets talk.
Clearly this post went beyond the original question. I answered here twice, once was originally as how it was against the law; my second post was why it's being kept alive.... i've tried avoiding this post for , well; from 23-47 years of age: what 24 years? sounds about right..
I have dealt with a pedophile; the fall out. Wanting to kill him constantly day in, day out. A step father my sister married with her two daughters. Single women with 2 daughters, still want love and companionship. A partner for life.
You want to know what it's like? Hell; Thats what I felt at 23... Protecting my sister and nieces at 23.
I hung out at bars, certain bars that I knew he frequented. The owner knew what, who I was looking for. Biker bars. No fuck around bars. If He walked in, I was Prepared to kill him.
The only reason I'm spilling the beans now, is Thearaputic; I don't want to talk about this. I'd rather kill him. I won't, been 24 years now, still looking for him; Oh But the asshole called my mom 3 weeks ago. wanting to talk to his victim...
I got myself thrown into jail years ago, I let the Jail personel know who he was, what he was. Oh, and the proper prisoners who he was....
Molestation effects way more than the Victim; I've dealt with it for 24 years as well the original victim. she was 6, now 30 and still is effected......

If brahman has anything to say: please Shoot his ass...
at no point did i defend anyones right to have sexual relations with a prepubecent girl.

Why is it so hard to understand that its possible to disagree with age of consent laws without advocating raping 6 year old girls?

[Fayed]

Lets the Breath out.... Whewww; Ok lets talk.
Clearly this post went beyond the original question. I answered here twice, once was originally as how it was against the law; my second post was why it's being kept alive.... I've tried avoiding this post for , well; from 23-47 years of age: what 24 years? sounds about right..
I have dealt with a pedophile; the fall out. Wanting to kill him constantly day in, day out. A step father my sister married with her two daughters. Single women with 2 daughters, still want love and companionship. A partner for life.
You want to know what it's like? Hell; Thats what I felt at 23... Protecting my sister and nieces at 23.
I hung out at bars, certain bars that I knew he frequented. The owner knew what, who I was looking for. Biker bars. No fuck around bars. If He walked in, I was Prepared to kill him.
The only reason I'm spilling the beans now, is Therapeutic; I don't want to talk about this. I'd rather kill him. I won't, been 24 years now, still looking for him; Oh But the asshole called my mom 3 weeks ago. wanting to talk to his victim...
I got myself thrown into jail years ago, I let the Jail personnel know who he was, what he was. Oh, and the proper prisoners who he was....
Molestation effects way more than the Victim; I've dealt with it for 24 years as well the original victim. she was 6, now 30 and still is effected......

If brahman has anything to say: please Shoot his ass...

Correctly if i misinterpret. You are saying that if you had been given the opportunity, you would not have been able to control the impulse to kill the pedophile? So you would have given into and did something you knew was wrong ( murder ). What makes that any different from a pedophile not being able to control the impulse to molest the child when the opportunity presented it self? Truth is there isn't any difference. You admit to having the impulse to do something you know is wrong, yet you shun those who also have impulses they know are wrong.?!?

I know someone is gonna say I'm advocating child molesters. I'm not. Pedophiles should be institutionalized, there freedom is not good for society, but blindly branding all of them is just as bad. I'm trying to get people to notice that these people are sick. Most of them do not want to do it, the ones that do more then likely have be traumatized in the past( like being molested themselves).


edit*


these are not any of the above, so it is not genocide. it is protecting society from harm.


It could be argued that pedophiles form their own subculture. So yea it is genocide. Even if pedophiles are deemed to not have a sub culture, its mass murder on a global scale. It would still be considered ethnic cleansing. Both scenario results in a holocaust.

And as for the second sentence you added, im pretty sure a charismatic dictator in 1940's Germany held the same view about another subculture.

[quote]

hol‧o‧caust  /ˈhɒləˌkɔst, ˈhoʊlə-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.

Little Math.

Say the current population of the planet is 6.5 trillion people. if only 1% of those are pedophiles, the result would be 65,000,000,000 dead. Thats 10,833x greater then the 6 million in the Jewish Holocaust. Again thats only 1 % of the planet being pedophiles.

1% - 65 Billion - 10,833x JH
2% - 130 Billion - 21,666x JH
5% - 325 Billion - 54,166x JH
10% - 650 Billion - 108,333x JH

Want that blood on your hands?

[najiwench]

and if we were to do that, how many future pedophiles would it prevent from coming into being? since the majority of pedophiles were abused themselves as children.

how many suicides would it prevent, when kids can't take what is being done to them any more?

how many lives would be better off?

i think it would be worth it.

and please take note that i am completely ignoring your invocation of godwin's law, as it is absurd in this discussion. if you can't see the difference between a person of the jewish faith, and a pedophile who actively abuses children, then there is no hope for you.

[Brahman]

yeah, and the US troop deaths in iraq are unacceptable...

[Winmancer]

Say the current population of the planet is 6.5 trillion people. if only 1% of those are pedophiles, the result would be 65,000,000,000 dead. Thats 10,833x greater then the 6 million in the Jewish Holocaust. Again thats only 1 % of the planet being pedophiles.

Current population is 6.5 billion (not trillion) at the moment.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Current population is 6.5 billion (not trillion) at the moment. Yes but it is a good number to try and Godwin a thread with :D

[Fayed]

my bad, added to many zeros.

so its
WP = 6.5 billion

1% - 65 Million = 10x JH
2% - 130 million = 20x JH
5% - 325 Million = 50x JH
10% - 650 million = 100X JH.

Still a large amount of people.

I use the JH cause its an event everyone can relate severity to. Ask someone to name a horrible event in the last 100 years and whats gonna be the #1 event??? The reason why Godwin's exists is cause WW2 is a somewhat recent event that is still prevalent in society.

i think it would be worth it

Yea, so did germany.

The mass eradication of any group is unacceptable. Doesnt matter if the common denom is their faith, color, sexual tendencies, existance of a 6th toe, anything. Out right slaughter never solves the problem. If we slaughter all the Pedophiles, what stops us from slaughtering all the people who have APD ( anti-social personality disorder, heavely prevalant disorder in serial killers), or people on the sex offenders list ( which does about as much damage as it does help).

We send people to jail for killing, yet the slaughter of millions is acceptable because the victums are part of a topic no one wants to talk about. The Jewish Holocaust was the result of no one wanting to talk about the shit storm caused in Germany after WW1.

Senseless slaughter is just an excuse to not actually attempt to fix the problem.

[najiwench]

it is once the person commits the crime that matters.

if a person gets off on little kids, but controls himself and never harms one, relies on fictional scenarios, hell even cgi animations...he can live his life.

it's once he steps over that line (and i use he because the majority of pedophiles are male, i'm not ignoring the fact that there are females), is when he is a detriment to society and needs to be removed.

and i feel the same way about serial killers and violent sexual predators of any kind.

of course that doesn't include the 17 year old kid who, once, didn't take no for an answer with his 16 year old girlfriend. that's not a violent sexual predator, that is a horny kid who made a bad decision and should be punished but will most likely learn from that mistake.

*edit* if keeping joe the child molester in jail, doing scientific experiments on him, and finally finding a way to CURE the disease that is pedophilia is an option, i'd be all for that, but the same people who say "ooh no, don't kill him! he's just sick!" say "oh no! don't experiment on him! it's inhumane!"

[Insalubrity]

of course that doesn't include the 17 year old kid who, once, didn't take no for an answer with his 16 year old girlfriend. that's not a violent sexual predator, that is a horny kid who made a bad decision and should be punished but will most likely learn from that mistake.

Youre kidding right? Sorry...If not. Fuck you. How is rape of a 16 year old different then the rape of a 36 year old by a 37 year old? Oh wait. Its not.

Congrats. Your attitude helps 19/20 rapists get off.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Insalubrity@Dec 1 2006, 05:02 AM
of course that doesn't include the 17 year old kid who, once, didn't take no for an answer with his 16 year old girlfriend. that's not a violent sexual predator, that is a horny kid who made a bad decision and should be punished but will most likely learn from that mistake.

Youre kidding right? Sorry...If not. Fuck you. How is rape of a 16 year old different then the rape of a 36 year old by a 37 year old? Oh wait. Its not.

Congrats. Your attitude helps 19/20 rapists get off.
ffs pay attention

i didn't say he should get off, just that he is not in the same playing field as the guy who goes out and HABITUALLY and VIOLENTLY rapes 15 or 20 women.

THAT guy should not be allowed to live, the one guy who didn't take no for an answer deserves to spend some time in jail but isn't the same level of criminal..ok?

please notice, i used the term VIOLENT and PREDATOR

one guy who date rapes one woman one time is not a predator..he fucked up and should go to jail for a while...

now, if he broke into her home, tied her up, and held a knife to her throat while he did it, then it changes the whole story, but if two people are on a date, and she goes so far as a hand job and he wants a little more and she says no and he takes it, that doesn't make him a VIOLENT PREDATOR..it just makes him a fucktard.

[Brahman]

i'm kinda getting the feeling that naji was dateraped and has forgiventhe guy...

I don't see that as just being "a fucktard" anymore then i see someone that got pissed off and beat his kids cause they broke something.

its really a shame the way so many women see that type of crime, its why people get away with it so much.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Brahman@Dec 1 2006, 05:37 AM
i'm kinda getting the feeling that naji was dateraped and has forgiventhe guy...

I don't see that as just being "a fucktard" anymore then i see someone that got pissed off and beat his kids cause they broke something.

its really a shame the way so many women see that type of crime, its why people get away with it so much.
didn't forgive the guy, never will until the come up with a cure for genital herpes ;)

but, i do realize that i did contribute to the situation that led to the encounter. it wasn't my fault, however i did do things that could have prevented it from happening.

i do believe date rapists should go to jail, i just don't think they should die like i feel about habitual violent sexual predators.

[Brahman]

but, i do realize that i did contribute to the situation that led to the encounter. it wasn't my fault, however i did do things that could have prevented it from happening.

i'd have to disagree.

no amount of teasing can provoke me into forcing someone into sex. Way to make excuses for him. It might not be fully making excuses, but you are at least partially excusing it saying ANYTHING you did contributed it. Even if that something was playing "just the tip" for 20 - 30 min. The moment she says no, its time to get yourself out of that situation, not try to force her into it.

[BlackHeart]

The mass eradication of any group is unacceptable. Doesnt matter if the common denom is their faith, color, sexual tendencies, existance of a 6th toe, anything. Out right slaughter never solves the problem. If we slaughter all the Pedophiles, what stops us from slaughtering all the people who have APD ( anti-social personality disorder, heavely prevalant disorder in serial killers), or people on the sex offenders list ( which does about as much damage as it does help).

The difference is that pedophiles are violent criminals. We aren't talking about killing innocent people. We are talking about lowlifes who put their own sick desires above the life of a child. They destroy life.

An eye for an eye. Toast them.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Yea, so did germany.Comparisons to Nazi Germany (godwinning) invoke the wrong (often blindly losing the true sense of the argument) emotion that is why people don't like those types of arguments.

The mass eradication of any group is unacceptable. Doesnt matter if the common denom is their faith, color, sexual tendencies, existance of a 6th toe, anything. Out right slaughter never solves the problem. If we slaughter all the Pedophiles, what stops us from slaughtering all the people who have APD ( anti-social personality disorder, heavely prevalant disorder in serial killers), or people on the sex offenders list ( which does about as much damage as it does help).It isn't a matter of rounding people up that have been previously convicted of pedophilia, but rather making the sentence for conviction of pedophilia more extreme. There is a huge distinction here. That is a huge leap to "you are predisposed to be a pedophiliac so we are going to have you executed", and why your argument has no impact on this discussion.

We send people to jail for killing, yet the slaughter of millions is acceptable because the victums are part of a topic no one wants to talk about. The Jewish Holocaust was the result of no one wanting to talk about the shit storm caused in Germany after WW1.The MAJOR difference that you seem to not understand and why GODWINNING is frowned upon, is that this is entirely different than round up millions of innocents. Rather it is the discussion of whether those that are convicted of such a malicious crime should be allowed back into society, where they are free to repeat offend.

Senseless slaughter is just an excuse to not actually attempt to fix the problem.Do you agree or disagree with the death penalty? This is a different boat than "senseless slaughter".

Me? I am not for death penalty in 95% of circumstances. I think that is the easy way out for too many criminals. However, I am for alternative forms of removing them from society where they are not free to repeat offend.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

More on why I actually wouldn't want Pedophilia and Molestation to move to a death penalty

------------------
Case study:
State wants to reduce speeding.
Solution:
State increases fines for speeding ten fold.
Result:
Number of speeding tickets issued goes way down. (false success)
Reality:
Number of warnings police officers give increases exponentially.
------------------

Now take this to a court case. Man is brought in on charges of pedophilia. There isn't a lot of hard evidence, maybe even just the testimonies of kids. It is a lot more difficult for a jury to convict when the death penalty is on the line. Maybe even one jurist doesn't believe in the death penalty in any form. Maybe the man walks because of this issue, or maybe he walks because the jury just can't convict a man to death without more concrete evidence. A form of life sentance (much more acceptable for due process) that prevents the man from repeat offending is much easier to swallow and effectively gives the same benefits to society (removal and without fear of parole).

To be honest, I think there are many crimes that should be given much greater penalties. Rape, for one, should be much more penalized than it is... but the unfortunate part of the prison system that we currently have is that we can't give a lot of crimes longer sentances due to the resources available to actually hold them indefinitely. Which is why I would advocate some form of mini-society for certain crimes that would lower the cost of detention while allowing them to live somewhat normal lives removed from society after serving a number of years in prison.

[Nadori]

Killing is wrong no mater who the victim is. Just because to us it might seem like a swell idea to kill the guy who has wronged someone......their familly might be justified in wanting to kill us as well (and eye for and eye is a terrible thing if you think about it because it only leads to worse things.)

Sometimes killing is necesary but it is still wrong. We are not in the Midle East people WTF...thats the same mindset they have. I'm not saying that if someone hurt someone from my family i wouldn't want to hurt them back. But it takes a better person to do what right and not what they feel like doing.


Killing....esecially mass killing is wrong. I lived in a world where certain people felt that my people are not worthy to live. So this kind of thinking from you guys pisses me off completly.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Killing is wrong no mater who the victim is. Just because to us it might seem like a swell idea to kill the guy who has wronged someone......their familly might be justified in wanting to kill us as well (and eye for and eye is a terrible thing if you think about it because it only leads to worse things.)

Sometimes killing is necesary but it is still wrong. We are not in the Midle East people WTF...thats the same mindset they have. I'm not saying that if someone hurt someone from my family i wouldn't want to hurt them back. But it takes a better person to do what right and not what they feel like doing.I agree entirely.

Killing....esecially mass killing is wrong. I lived in a world where certain people felt that my people are not worthy to live. So this kind of thinking from you guys pisses me off completly. This is the problem with Godwinning a thread. The whole premisse of saying that pedophiles should be killed (eg. mass murdered) is a wrong misdirection for the argument.

The direction I believe that often gets muddled is:

1. Should Pedophiles get be removed from society? (upon conviction, so in other words you wouldn't go out and round up all pre-existing convicted free pedophiles)

2. How are they removed from society? Do you invoke longer prison terms, alternate forms of long term detention or do you invoke the death penalty for more cases?

-----------------------------------------------------
1. I do believe pedophiles should be removed from sociey upon their conviction as part of their sentance. I don't believe it should be a death penalty in the majority of cases as I don't agree with the death penalty on principle. Both because I don't agree for the "eye for an eye" mentality, and I don't always believe everyone sentanced to death was given all of their rights of due process (and it could easily become a slippery slope).

2. I would be for longer prison terms or forms of alternate detention, as I believe there is more to pedophilia than just a "bad decision" and so the perpetrators of the crime are more likely to re-offend. Long term prison sentances or alternative forms of detention might provide opportunities for true rehabilitation as well.
-------------------------------------------------------

[Nadori]

I know but its easy for us to sit here and say what should be done...it would be a bit harder to do if they were to be the one to execute the sentance.

They should have harsher punishments and maybe even M tattoed on their foreheads (like they used to do to pirates) . Ok I'm joking about the last one but what we gotta keep in mind is there is a lot of people being accused that are innocent. Its pretty scary but i think its more common nowdays for young girls to accuse someone of rape if

1. the guy pissed them off
2. the guy turned them down
3. They are ashamed of what they have done and tell everyone its rape...especially if they get pregnant.

It is not up to us to play god. It is terrible that these crimes happen but its even worse when the loose laws on these crimes is used for revenge. Especially when in most cases you cant prove what happened and if you can prove...then you can't prove it wasn't consenting.


Yes i saidit . It is way too easy to commit someone of rape or child molestation. Has anyone forgoten that children and a lot of females are capable of using this as a way to get back at whoever they are mad at.

At any rate we should keep in mind that two wrongs don't make a right and get back in touch with our morals...

[Fayed]

I see what your saying now Gnekro. Sorry I Godwinded. I actually never heard of that term before this thread ( more of a lurker then a poster in most places).

Pedo's should get harsher penalitys. They shouldent just be locked up and key thrown away. They are people. Auto LWP sentence doesn't help fix the problem, it ignores it. Throw them in Psyc Wards till/if they get better. Most dont want to molest children. Its a compulsion. The same way those with OCD knowingly do things they dont want to.

Yes its insanely easy to accuse someone of sexual crimes. A 12yo fails a test, gets mad at teacher, accuses teacher. Even if the crime doesnt stick, that teacher is SOL. Very Few will hire you. Local decorated teacher ( had bunch of awards, met president, basicly a super teacher) was accused of touching girls. Turns out the girls had been told that they had failed the grade, so they accused him. He was aquitted. Hes the Manager at McDonalds down the street now.

People think pedophiles get off on molesting kids. They don't. They can't control themselves. IMO its a case where insanity is a vaible defence.

[Wisecracker]

Blackheart,
"Yes they do. Anytime anyone has sex with a kid it is rape. Kids are not adults. They are not equipped to make their own decisions about important things like this. That's why we don't let them vote, drink alcohol, drive cars or require them to support themselves."

Thank you for your opinion. However, children are capable of making informed decisions. Sorry if you don't believe this, and prefer to treat them like dogs or slaves. I fully believe children should be able to vote, drink, drive and support themselves, if they need. Hell, they CAN do most of that stuff in other countries. And it's natural for parents to take care of their children.

Najiwench,
"they want the laws changed so that what they do can be legal, but morally it is still rape."

Morals = Opinion.

"if you walked up to my four year old, and offered her favorite kind of popsicle, i'm fairly certain that she would let you do just about anything you wanted to do to her. however, that does NOT constitute consent. and if i caught somebody doing that, i would rip their testicles out through their throat and shove them up their ass."

It is consent.

"and, yes, i have taught her what parts of her body are for her to touch and what parts are ok for other people, we have that discussion a lot, as she is quite the exhibitionist..but because she is innocent and wants to show off her body, does not mean that she is inviting some adult to put his body parts inside her."

You can teach her whatever you want, she's your child. Just like I could, technically, teach my child that black people are inhuman and must be treated accordingly, doesn't make me right though.

"they ARE hurting people, when kids grow up with distorted ideas of what is and is not acceptable sexual behavior, when they grow up believing that sex is something you can bribe people for, when they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel too guilty or ashamed to tell anyone...it doesn't have to be a physical injury for the child to be damaged."

Distorted? by who's view point? yours? heheh. It hurts no one. And furthermore, hurting someone is fine as long as you have their consent. I guess I'll try suing the doctor next time he gives me a shot. And although bribing has NOTHING to do with this, it's fine. When they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel to guilty or ashamed to tell anyone? guess they weren't raised correctly then.

Insalubrity,
"WTB modship so I can ban this troll. "

Yes, I know how much you want to step on the truth and pretend that the world revolves around you and nothing bad happens and everything you think is right. Ignorance is bliss.

"You obviously dont remember what it was like to be 13 and under because if you did then you would know that kids CANNOT completely grasp their situation. There is a world of difference between a 40 year old wanting sex from a 30 year old and a 25 year old wanting sex from a 15 year old. You cannot say that there isnt going to be manipulation on either end. Your analogy is a flawed one because of maturity differences. I am all for one making mistakes and fucking up in relationships because that is how we learn. I do not say that all relationships with a 10 year gap are bad or inappropriate even if the person is young however there is a consideration to be made about maturity and intentions. Im sure there are 15 year olds out there that could handle a relationship with a 25 year old but they are far and few between. We cannot make rules by exceptions but by the common."

Wow, that's exactly what's wrong. You should never make rules by the common. You make rules based on the full extent someone is capable of, or else you end up stripping the rights away from the capable. What if you were the only one on this earth capable of reading. Should they ban literature and put you in jail if you read? I would hope not.

"Kids cant comprehend how psychologically damaging this is. Pedophiles beget pedophiles. Im guessing you are one too Wisecracker and lemme guess, you just wanna "love" kids. Its rape. There is a world of difference between 2 13-15 year olds having sex then a younger and an older person. Its not how you raise them, its maturity levels. A concept you seem unable to grasp."

Me? A pedophile? I'm 17, so I guess I totally qualify as a "pedophile" since I'm dating a 16 year old. *gasp* Maturity levels are objective and unique from person to person. Like I said, there are plenty of 40 year olds who can't handle certain situations maturely. Does that mean we should disallow anyone around the age of 40 from doing basically ANYTHING that requires maturity?

"I will support the right to say whatever you wish but when words become actions that is where the line is drawn."

Too bad the "action" of stripping away my rights from the government has already taken place. I've already been wronged in many situations. However, I'm pretty forgiving, I can't expect people to be perfect. I'm far from perfect too, I have plenty of problems, just like I'm sure everyone on earth does too.

Brahman,
"kinds can comprehend things, kids can be taught things, and kids can be "taught" the wrong things are right.

If your dad taught you that you as a little boy you are suppose to, and have a duty to, sexually satisfy your dady..."

That's fine. As long as no one is forced.

Najiwench,
"it is 100% UNNATURAL to be attracted to children. period.

and i'm talking pre-pubescent humans.

it does not occur in the animal kingdom, there is no rationale behind it, it is simply an illness, and it does harm the child, because it teaches the child that it is normal, and that child is then coerced into believing that it is normal to grow up and want to have sex with children."

several things. 1) It does happen in the animal kingdom, although I have no sources. Homosexuality also occurs. 2) You're forgetting that humans are animals and are part of the animal kingdom. 3) It does not harm the child 4) Normal? Define normal. And what's wrong with someone believing that it's normal? 5) What does the animal kingdom have ANYTHING to do with this? They also eat their children.

"sex with children brings about children who have no sexual inhibitions, increases the risk of the children growing up to engage in promiscuous activity, leaving them open to disease...for girls and women, sexual encounters before the age of 16 GREATLY increases their risks for cervical cancers."

And? 1) Use a condom and take precautions, like normal people do. 2) What's wrong with being promiscuous? If they get a disease then that's the sole cause from their actions. Just like if I stick a fork in an electrical socket. And i know someone is going to say "that's why we teach them not to do it, so it must apply to having sex', and my rebuttal is "That's what condoms are for, and just because there are risks involves doesnt mean it should be illegal, I bet it isnt illegal to stick forks in electrical outlets, right?" Which brings me to my next point 3) Don't make laws protecting people from themselves. What if they WANT to have cervical cancer? Let that soak in.

"if you feel that having sex with a pre-pubescent child is in any way ok, get yourself to a psychiatric facility and get help, before you hurt somebody. please."

If you feel that your opinion is so important that you must utilize the government in forcing others to obey it, then you need to get to a psychiatric facility, and get help. Plz. Before you hurt somebody.

"the life experiences and maturity levels are just too great to make it "ok"...though if that 25 year old is truly in love enough with the under age person, then they can wait until it is legal."

Let's ignore the point that most people on this planet don't know what true love is. What does sex have to do with love?

"this is actually not true. Dolphins show pediphilic tendancies from time to time, the pod kills the offending member."

Damn, I guess intellect breeds hierarchy and elitism.

Nekrax,
"I'm gonna have to agree with you. If someone touched my 10 year old girl, there isn't an army in the world that could keep me from doing unspeakable things to that individual."

Even if it was consensual? What if she's the one who was making the advances? Either way, I guess your the same as the dolphins. Killing "nonbelievers".

LostAngel,
"but if you abuse a child in any way, regardless of what some shrink tells a judge, you do not deserve to live."

I totally agree, child abuse and rape is terrible. Sadly, most people on this forum force their opinions on others. Kind of ironic. I fully support capital punishment.

Archerphate,
"Pedophilia is legally defined as sexually explicit engagement with a prepubescent minor. the line of pubescent is different from state to state. If the minor is pubescent or post pubescent it is considered statutory rape (even if no penetration occurs)."

That is interesting. But yeah, a lot of ~18-20 year olds end up getting slapped with 'sexual offender' when they have sex with anyone below 18. And they live with it the rest of their lives.

Najiwench,
"nope, i say remove them from society completely and permanently, and the best and most efficient way to do that is to kill them."

Kind of like Hitler. Let's round them (group-of-people-who-have-different-view-points) up and gas 'em.

Nadori,
"Child molestation is a crime that makes me just sick to my stomach and they deffinetly should have harsher penalties. "

Yes, child molestation ( harass or assault sexually ) is a terrible thing.

Whispers Quietly,
"I have dealt with a pedophile; the fall out. Wanting to kill him constantly day in, day out. A step father my sister married with her two daughters. Single women with 2 daughters, still want love and companionship. A partner for life."

I'm sorry you had to go through that, you should have probably called the social services or alerted the police.

Najiwench,
"and if we were to do that, how many future pedophiles would it prevent from coming into being?"

None, Since it has nothing to do with hereditance. It would only serve to increase the number of "pedophiles" by demeaning it so much.

Insalubrity,
"Youre kidding right? Sorry...If not. Fuck you. How is rape of a 16 year old different then the rape of a 36 year old by a 37 year old? Oh wait. Its not."

Right. The motive for a crime should not affect the sentencing.

Blackheart,
"The difference is that pedophiles are violent criminals."
Wrong.

Nadori,
"Killing is wrong no matter who the victim is."
Killing never solves anything. Killing someone who committed a murder is not going to correct the problem. However, killing someone DOES prevent future crimes from being done. A murderer will think twice knowing that, if he kills someone, then he is 100% guaranteed to be killed. And prevention is much more important than punishment. They work hand in hand. However, I do believe everyone should be given a second chance.

[Brahman]

takes a special kind of "man" to say its ok to raise your kids to think they have to show their love by sucking on daddies cock every night.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I have never before wanted to outright ban someone for their view, but I come close with you Wisecracker. But I will be a well behaved mod, for now.

Originally posted by "W vs Blackheart"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Blackheart")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Thank you for your opinion. However, children are capable of making informed decisions. Sorry if you don't believe this, and prefer to treat them like dogs or slaves. I fully believe children should be able to vote, drink, drive and support themselves, if they need. Hell, they CAN do most of that stuff in other countries. And it's natural for parents to take care of their children. [/b]
You can't seriously believe that children can give informed consent. Childrens mind don't develop the capacity to understand the consequences of their actions. It isn't about being over protective about your 8 yr old, it is just a fact that they don't have the ability to process the decisions in their brain. You might successfully argue that their should be lower ages for voting (honestly I don't want people younger than 18 voting) and drinking (I think 18 would be an appropriate age). You can't argue that a 12 yr old should be screwing whomever they "consent" to and they truly understand their actions and the consequences of such actions.

Originally posted by "W vs. Naji"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs. Naji")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It is consent.[/b]
Not informed consent. That is a huge difference. See above.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs. Naji")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Distorted? by who's view point? yours? heheh. It hurts no one. And furthermore, hurting someone is fine as long as you have their consent. I guess I'll try suing the doctor next time he gives me a shot. And although bribing has NOTHING to do with this, it's fine. When they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel to guilty or ashamed to tell anyone? guess they weren't raised correctly then.[/b][/quote]The pure ignorance of this statement should null and void any further words that come out of your mouth.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs. Insa")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Yes, I know how much you want to step on the truth and pretend that the world revolves around you and nothing bad happens and everything you think is right. Ignorance is bliss.[/b][/quote]See above.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Insa 2")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Wow, that's exactly what's wrong. You should never make rules by the common. You make rules based on the full extent someone is capable of, or else you end up stripping the rights away from the capable. What if you were the only one on this earth capable of reading. Should they ban literature and put you in jail if you read? I would hope not.[/b][/quote]Do you actually read the words coming out of your mouth? The rights of one man end where the rights of another man's rights begin. Just because you are capable of justifying to yourself that you should have sex with a child and it isn't rape, doesn't mean that you aren't impeding on the right's of someone less capable to make the same decision.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Insa 3")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Me? A pedophile? I'm 17, so I guess I totally qualify as a "pedophile" since I'm dating a 16 year old. *gasp* Maturity levels are objective and unique from person to person. Like I said, there are plenty of 40 year olds who can't handle certain situations maturely. Does that mean we should disallow anyone around the age of 40 from doing basically ANYTHING that requires maturity? [/b][/quote]Everything that you have argued to this point, makes one believe you would like nothing more than the right to stick your dick in some 4 yr old.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Brahman")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That's fine. As long as no one is forced.[/b][/quote]See justification for the above statement.


</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Naji")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And? 1) Use a condom and take precautions, like normal people do. 2) What's wrong with being promiscuous? If they get a disease then that's the sole cause from their actions. Just like if I stick a fork in an electrical socket. And i know someone is going to say "that's why we teach them not to do it, so it must apply to having sex', and my rebuttal is "That's what condoms are for, and just because there are risks involves doesnt mean it should be illegal, I bet it isnt illegal to stick forks in electrical outlets, right?" Which brings me to my next point 3) Don't make laws protecting people from themselves. What if they WANT to have cervical cancer? Let that soak in.[/b][/quote]Seriously, take your arguement to Nambla's board and find your support group there.


</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Naji 2")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If you feel that your opinion is so important that you must utilize the government in forcing others to obey it, then you need to get to a psychiatric facility, and get help. Plz. Before you hurt somebody.[/b][/quote]*speechless*


</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Naji 2")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Let's ignore the point that most people on this planet don't know what true love is. What does sex have to do with love?[/b][/quote]Good point. Anyone is free to love anyone. That doesn't mean they should have the right to have sex with anyone that gives them consent (* your definition of consent *).

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Nekrax")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Even if it was consensual? What if she's the one who was making the advances? Either way, I guess your the same as the dolphins. Killing "nonbelievers".[/b][/quote]Seriously, there is a huge difference between consent and informed consent.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs LostAngel")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I totally agree, child abuse and rape is terrible. Sadly, most people on this forum force their opinions on others. Kind of ironic. I fully support capital punishment.[/b][/quote]Check the definition of child abuse. Sex without informed consent is abuse. You are taking advantage of them.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE ("W vs Archerphate")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>That is interesting. But yeah, a lot of ~18-20 year olds end up getting slapped with 'sexual offender' when they have sex with anyone below 18. And they live with it the rest of their lives.[/b][/quote]They get slapped with a sex offense but it isn't pedophilia. It is statutory rape. Although it isn't a perfect law it does much more good than harm. You can't have "grey" laws.

<!--QuoteBegin-"W vs Najiwench"@
Kind of like Hitler. Let's round them (group-of-people-who-have-different-view-points) up and gas 'em.[/quote]Way to try to Godwin... realize this already was attempted (though unknowingly) and not effectively. There is a huge difference between removing types of sex offenders from society upon conviction of their crimes (with due process) and that of rounding groups of people off the street.


<!--QuoteBegin-"W vs Najiwench"
None, Since it has nothing to do with hereditance. It would only serve to increase the number of "pedophiles" by demeaning it so much.[/quote]You sir, are totally ignorant.

[Fayed]

Originally posted by Wisecracker
Blackheart,
"Yes they do. Anytime anyone has sex with a kid it is rape. Kids are not adults. They are not equipped to make their own decisions about important things like this. That's why we don't let them vote, drink alcohol, drive cars or require them to support themselves."

Thank you for your opinion. However, children are capable of making informed decisions. Sorry if you don't believe this, and prefer to treat them like dogs or slaves. I fully believe children should be able to vote, drink, drive and support themselves, if they need. Hell, they CAN do most of that stuff in other countries. And it's natural for parents to take care of their children.

some kids yes. In situations, some children are asked to make an informed decisions. This is not the case. A pedophile does not inform the child of the repercussions, so there is no "informed" in the informed decisions. As to the later part, give it 15 years and you'll change your mind.

Najiwench,
"they want the laws changed so that what they do can be legal, but morally it is still rape."

Morals = Opinion.

"if you walked up to my four year old, and offered her favorite kind of popsicle, i'm fairly certain that she would let you do just about anything you wanted to do to her. however, that does NOT constitute consent. and if i caught somebody doing that, i would rip their testicles out through their throat and shove them up their ass."

It is consent. Nope, thats manipulation.

"and, yes, i have taught her what parts of her body are for her to touch and what parts are ok for other people, we have that discussion a lot, as she is quite the exhibitionist..but because she is innocent and wants to show off her body, does not mean that she is inviting some adult to put his body parts inside her."

You can teach her whatever you want, she's your child. Just like I could, technically, teach my child that black people are inhuman and must be treated accordingly, doesn't make me right though.

"they ARE hurting people, when kids grow up with distorted ideas of what is and is not acceptable sexual behavior, when they grow up believing that sex is something you can bribe people for, when they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel too guilty or ashamed to tell anyone...it doesn't have to be a physical injury for the child to be damaged."

Distorted? by who's view point? yours? heheh. It hurts no one. !!!!!!!!!!! And furthermore, hurting someone is fine as long as you have their consent. As long as it is real consent, and not consent under duress I guess I'll try suing the doctor next time he gives me a shot. And although bribing has NOTHING to do with this, it's fine. Again, no.When they are physically injured by their adult lover but feel to guilty or ashamed to tell anyone? guess they weren't raised correctly then. nope, they were just manipulated into thinking it was normal and not liking it is abnormal

Insalubrity,
"WTB modship so I can ban this troll. "

Yes, I know how much you want to step on the truth and pretend that the world revolves around you and nothing bad happens and everything you think is right. Ignorance is bliss. Nice personal Attack!

"You obviously don't remember what it was like to be 13 and under because if you did then you would know that kids CANNOT completely grasp their situation. There is a world of difference between a 40 year old wanting sex from a 30 year old and a 25 year old wanting sex from a 15 year old. You cannot say that there isn't going to be manipulation on either end. Your analogy is a flawed one because of maturity differences. I am all for one making mistakes and fucking up in relationships because that is how we learn. I do not say that all relationships with a 10 year gap are bad or inappropriate even if the person is young however there is a consideration to be made about maturity and intentions. I'm sure there are 15 year olds out there that could handle a relationship with a 25 year old but they are far and few between. We cannot make rules by exceptions but by the common."

Wow, that's exactly what's wrong. You should never make rules by the common. You make rules based on the full extent someone is capable of, or else you end up stripping the rights away from the capable. What if you were the only one on this earth capable of reading. Should they ban literature and put you in jail if you read? I would hope not.

"Kids cant comprehend how psychologically damaging this is. Pedophiles beget pedophiles. I'm guessing you are one too Wisecracker and lemme guess, you just wanna "love" kids. Its rape. There is a world of difference between 2 13-15 year olds having sex then a younger and an older person. Its not how you raise them, its maturity levels. A concept you seem unable to grasp."

Me? A pedophile? I'm 17, so I guess I totally qualify as a "pedophile" since I'm dating a 16 year old. *gasp* Maturity levels are objective and unique from person to person. Like I said, there are plenty of 40 year olds who can't handle certain situations maturely. Does that mean we should disallow anyone around the age of 40 from doing basically ANYTHING that requires maturity?

/sigh. You do realized you just completely destroyed your credibility. No one wants to be told their views about adult behavior are wrong by someone who is still considered a child in the eyes of the law.

"I will support the right to say whatever you wish but when words become actions that is where the line is drawn."

Too bad the "action" of stripping away my rights from the government has already taken place. I've already been wronged in many situations. However, I'm pretty forgiving, I can't expect people to be perfect. I'm far from perfect too, I have plenty of problems, just like I'm sure everyone on earth does too.

Brahman,
"kinds can comprehend things, kids can be taught things, and kids can be "taught" the wrong things are right.

If your dad taught you that you as a little boy you are suppose to, and have a duty to, sexually satisfy your daddy..."

That's fine. As long as no one is forced. /yawn. again child cant decide this, and as such it is "forced".

Najiwench,
"it is 100% UNNATURAL to be attracted to children. period.

and I'm talking pre-pubescent humans.

it does not occur in the animal kingdom, there is no rationale behind it, it is simply an illness, and it does harm the child, because it teaches the child that it is normal, and that child is then coerced into believing that it is normal to grow up and want to have sex with children."

several things. 1) It does happen in the animal kingdom, although I have no sources. Just a note, if you have no sources, then its not valid. Homosexuality also occurs. 2) You're forgetting that humans are animals and are part of the animal kingdom. 3) It does not harm the child See aforementioned responses when you said this. 4) Normal? Define normal. Avg. The statical majority.And what's wrong with someone believing that it's normal? 5) What does the animal kingdom have ANYTHING to do with this? They also eat their children.

"sex with children brings about children who have no sexual inhibitions, increases the risk of the children growing up to engage in promiscuous activity, leaving them open to disease...for girls and women, sexual encounters before the age of 16 GREATLY increases their risks for cervical cancers."

And? 1) Use a condom and take precautions, like normal people do. 2) What's wrong with being promiscuous? If they get a disease then that's the sole cause from their actions. Just like if I stick a fork in an electrical socket. And i know someone is going to say "that's why we teach them not to do it, so it must apply to having sex', and my rebuttal is "That's what condoms are for, and just because there are risks involves doesn't mean it should be illegal, I bet it isn't illegal to stick forks in electrical outlets, right?" Which brings me to my next point 3) Don't make laws protecting people from themselves. What if they WANT to have cervical cancer? Let that soak in.

"if you feel that having sex with a pre-pubescent child is in any way ok, get yourself to a psychiatric facility and get help, before you hurt somebody. please."

If you feel that your opinion is so important that you must utilize the government in forcing others to obey it, then you need to get to a psychiatric facility, and get help. Plz. Before you hurt somebody.

"the life experiences and maturity levels are just too great to make it "ok"...though if that 25 year old is truly in love enough with the under age person, then they can wait until it is legal."

Let's ignore the point that most people on this planet don't know what true love is. What does sex have to do with love?

"this is actually not true. Dolphins show pediphilic tenancies from time to time, the pod kills the offending member."

Damn, I guess intellect breeds hierarchy and elitism.

Nekrax,
"I'm gonna have to agree with you. If someone touched my 10 year old girl, there isn't an army in the world that could keep me from doing unspeakable things to that individual."

Even if it was consensual? What if she's the one who was making the advances? Either way, I guess your the same as the dolphins. Killing "nonbelievers".

Again with the consent, seem to be a majority of your argument is based on this flawed construct.

LostAngel,
"but if you abuse a child in any way, regardless of what some shrink tells a judge, you do not deserve to live."

I totally agree, child abuse and rape is terrible. Sadly, most people on this forum force their opinions on others. Kind of ironic. I fully support capital punishment.

Archerphate,
"Pedophilia is legally defined as sexually explicit engagement with a prepubescent minor. the line of pubescent is different from state to state. If the minor is pubescent or post pubescent it is considered statutory rape (even if no penetration occurs)."

That is interesting. But yeah, a lot of ~18-20 year olds end up getting slapped with 'sexual offender' when they have sex with anyone below 18. And they live with it the rest of their lives.

Najiwench,
"nope, i say remove them from society completely and permanently, and the best and most efficient way to do that is to kill them."

Kind of like Hitler. Let's round them (group-of-people-who-have-different-view-points) up and gas 'em. [b] We are at Godwindcon 1!!!!!!!!!!!

Nadori,
"Child molestation is a crime that makes me just sick to my stomach and they definatly should have harsher penalties. "

Yes, child molestation ( harass or assault sexually ) is a terrible thing.

Whispers Quietly,
"I have dealt with a pedophile; the fall out. Wanting to kill him constantly day in, day out. A step father my sister married with her two daughters. Single women with 2 daughters, still want love and companionship. A partner for life."

I'm sorry you had to go through that, you should have probably called the social services or alerted the police.

Please Pardon the French that follows.

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO JUDGE WQ? WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO TELL HER WHAT SHE SHOULD HAVE DONE? Your 17 fucking years old, chances are you know shit about real life.

Again Sorry bout the language.[.b]

Najiwench,
"and if we were to do that, how many future pedophiles would it prevent from coming into being?"

None, Since it has nothing to do with inheritance. It would only serve to increase the number of "pedophiles" by demeaning it so much.

Insalubrity,
"You're kidding right? Sorry...If not. Fuck you. How is rape of a 16 year old different then the rape of a 36 year old by a 37 year old? Oh wait. Its not."

Right. The motive for a crime should not affect the sentencing.

Blackheart,
"The difference is that pedophiles are violent criminals."
Wrong.[b] Um, nope, sexual molestation is considered a violent crime. not as violdent as murder, but violent none the less.

Nadori,
"Killing is wrong no matter who the victim is."
Killing never solves anything. Killing someone who committed a murder is not going to correct the problem. However, killing someone DOES prevent future crimes from being done. A murderer will think twice knowing that, if he kills someone, then he is 100% guaranteed to be killed. And prevention is much more important than punishment. They work hand in hand. However, I do believe everyone should be given a second chance. Very Idealistic View, but no deterant is going to force an action. Emotion will usually override reason, so people will always break the law.

Damit Gnecko beat be.

His points are all very good.

And now im curious, who told you/ where did you get the idea that pedophilia is a victimless crime?

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Wisecracker@Dec 19 2006, 06:55 PM
"if you walked up to my four year old, and offered her favorite kind of popsicle, i'm fairly certain that she would let you do just about anything you wanted to do to her. however, that does NOT constitute consent. and if i caught somebody doing that, i would rip their testicles out through their throat and shove them up their ass."

It is consent.
i pray to god that you never have children and that you are never faced with the reality of what pedophiles are and do.

you are a sick person and need help, if you believe that a four year old child can consent to sex with an adult. reading this has seriously made me sick to my stomach irl.

[Nadori]

I should have stopped reading at :


Thank you for your opinion. However, children are capable of making informed decisions.

[najiwench]

Originally posted by Nadori@Dec 20 2006, 04:41 PM
I should have stopped reading at :


Thank you for your opinion. However, children are capable of making informed decisions.
/agree nadori

:o

i pray that guy is a troll, and doesn't truly believe what he is saying...

[Nadori]

So where were we before the troll interupted?

[Aegrusnecrox]

We were talking about how naughty Nadori has been.

She's been a very bad girl, and should go to my room.

-Egg

[Nadori]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/Nadori/thlol.gif