Regarding the NDA breaking news.

[Felicite]

So.. the post you are linking is on the Beta Boards. We have an area for discussing Beta topics with other Beta participants (SOE approved this concept). PM Aryse to get added.

I removed your topic. Please do not repost Beta information in public forums.

[Fotus]

wtf...

i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.

the link wasn't the point of the post, the link was just so others in beta could find the post.

did you remove the post or just put it into this beta area?

either way here is what i was trying to post (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=3981) linking anouther class forum should not be against the rules here at the least.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Fotus@Aug 23 2006, 01:27 PM
wtf...

i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.

the link wasn't the point of the post, the link was just so others in beta could find the post.

did you remove the post or just put it into this beta area?

either way here is what i was trying to post (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=3981) linking anouther class forum should not be against the rules here at the least.
Um.. you quoted SOE's statements from their Beta Forum in an "open to the public one" one.

That's a no no, isn't it?

Edit: *laughs* old and slow.. yeah.. you broke the NDA. I would ban you if I had the tools. *nods*

[Nadori]

Originally posted by Fotus@Aug 23 2006, 12:27 PM
wtf...

i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.

the link wasn't the point of the post, the link was just so others in beta could find the post.

did you remove the post or just put it into this beta area?

either way here is what i was trying to post (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=3981) linking anouther class forum should not be against the rules here at the least.
ROFL!


Nice job sir!

[Fotus]

i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.

did i miss a board rule about it being against this boards rules to break anouther boards rules?

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Fotus@Aug 23 2006, 08:33 PM
i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.
did i miss a board rule about it being against this boards rules to break anouther boards rules?
noted.

You said 'this boards rules' heh

[Brahman]

how will any guild do shyra if they fix this !

[Fotus]

Originally posted by Xislaben+Aug 23 2006, 08:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ Aug 23 2006, 08:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Fotus@Aug 23 2006, 08:33 PM
i'm specifically trying to break the NDA.
did i miss a board rule about it being against this boards rules to break anouther boards rules?
noted.

You said 'this boards rules' heh [/b][/quote]
of course it does !

its about EQ, all that has anything to do with EQ rules !

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Fotus@Aug 23 2006, 01:33 PM
did i miss a board rule about it being against this boards rules to break anouther boards rules?
Um.. and you are a lawyer? No, you are a first time poster that states "I am trying to break the NDA". Which you clearly did by posting Rashere's words from Sony's Forum.

You are hurting my head.. the only thread I moved had a link to AND QUOTES FROM SOE's boards. The link to EQNecro has never been touched.

So.. what are you 'wtf'ing and pissed off about?

[Nadori]

I know posting infor from Beta is frowned upon here.

But is it really against the rules?

[Fotus]

We have an area for discussing Beta topics with other Beta participants (SOE approved this concept).

why would i care about that if i'm trying to let the general community know about rash's (that is what he is afterall, a rash on the community's bottom...) words?

Its not about letting others in beta know about it. If i were to post it there i would be posting it in the wrong forum, entirely defeating the purpose.

and why do you think i'm pissed off? I reposted part of my post because you seemed to have missed the point entirely.

[Zeller TP]

Wow. That looks to be quite the nerf. Glad I'm not playing anymore.

[Aryse Andenter]

Absolutely breaking the NDA is against the rules at Necrotalk. There are several reasons - first of all, it is a hard and fast SOE rule, and a major SOE rule, and we do follow the SOE rules for the vast majority of things. We also do not want to risk having any of our members in beta removed from the beta for breaking the NDA - their voices are important there. As mentioned, there is a beta forum here at necrotalk, and we don't want to make that seem like a bad decision to SOE staff either. Finally... let's not cause mass panic. A lot of things in the betas never go live. That's a large part of why the NDA exists. Too much speculation is a bad thing.

There are always a few hints that come out about the beta, and I'm not going to suspend anyone over that... but that means little tiny oopsy hints only. Stating that you are trying to break the NDA is way way over the line.

[Brahman]

from the looks of it he isn't stating that it is nerfed, just that he would if he could lol

[the_freak]

The pet pulling nerf will suck. The invis changes will suck much also. I do not like the direction the devs are taking atm. They have made some great changes pre TSS but now they are about to anger (more like frustrate) me into another and possible final retirement.

They seem to be making some major changes to game mechanics ect. that remind me of Everquest II. We will just have to wait and see if the sky falls.

"Who gives a Shit" --Longest Yard

[Xebitikz]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 23 2006, 04:34 PM
how will any guild do shyra if they fix this !
Using the monks we always have. ;-)

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Xebitikz+Aug 24 2006, 09:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xebitikz @ Aug 24 2006, 09:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Aug 23 2006, 04:34 PM
how will any guild do shyra if they fix this !
Using the monks we always have. ;-) [/b][/quote]
Joke Xebitikz, Xebitikz joke...

[Felicite]

Curious, did EQNecro leave the Rashere quotes posted?

What's their position on NDA breaking.

[nnigma]

This is in reply to the two cats who keep asking if its against the rules of posting NDA. It is ask any community correespondant,etc..The boards I visit have always said dont post NDA material,etc...As much as we want to know whats gonna be in new expansion,just gotta be patient and wait and see.
Though I agree its just an expansion to an online game,and not Top Secret national security stuff(though our media pretends it never is),still gotta play by the rules,ya ya, I know; F the rules,lol....

[Jebasiz]

From my experience it takes SoE forever to do anything about just about anything..so you'll probably quit/retire before they find out you violated the NDA. There's probably little risk. I'm not advocating the violation of such policies. That'd be wrong.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by nnigma@Aug 24 2006, 01:46 PM
This is in reply to the two cats who keep asking if its against the rules of posting NDA. It is ask any community correespondant,etc..The boards I visit have always said dont post NDA material,etc...As much as we want to know whats gonna be in new expansion,just gotta be patient and wait and see.
Though I agree its just an expansion to an online game,and not Top Secret national security stuff(though our media pretends it never is),still gotta play by the rules,ya ya, I know; F the rules,lol....
not all boards adhere to all the other boards they may be unofficially be related to's rules.

the question isn't if SOE would view this as against its rules, the question is if NT would suspend / ban someone for breaking SOE's rules.

[Schaeffer]

Depends on what rule, if someone admitted cheating (i.e. using MQ), I'd probably ban them because I don't want a cheaters input here. If someone wants to break the NDA, we'd probably just edit it so that the NDA wouldn't be broken on this site (severely as in purposefully or blatanlty) and the poster would only get warned to be more careful. If they were persistent and spammed NDA breaking posts they'd probably get suspended until the NDA was lifted.

These aren't rules set in stone, but I think the mods and admin follow the same general school of thought when it comes to this topic.

I believe Felicite's question was, "How does Warborn handle it?" You trying to test the waters here BrahMcDraman? Cause I can just have you suspended now and save us both the trouble if you want. =P

[Rijak]

rules are made to be broken

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 25 2006, 07:50 AM
I believe Felicite's question was, "How does Warborn handle it?" You trying to test the waters here BrahMcDraman? Cause I can just have you suspended now and save us both the trouble if you want. =P

well I mod with the general rule of "can a kid see it, is it in the right spot if a kid can't see it?" and "does my tummy turn, or head turn instinctivly?". SOE's rules I look at it as they are not my rules to enforce. The topic hasn't really come up at eqnecro though. Not sure how i would feel about it if warborn wanted me to mod based on that type of content.

You and I know damn well if i was testing the waters I would do far more then I have, and at this point i'm pretty sure i would just flat out ask you if i thought something i wanted to do was against the rules :) thank goodily goodness that there is at least one mod that acts like their are out to get me, instead of actually being out to get me !

[Zeller TP]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Aug 24 2006, 01:07 PM
From my experience it takes SoE forever to do anything about just about anything..so you'll probably quit/retire before they find out you violated the NDA. There's probably little risk. I'm not advocating the violation of such policies. That'd be wrong.
There was a guy on Tholuxe, Bran-something, who posted in-game maps he had made during a beta test. SOE banned him very quickly for that.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brahman+Aug 25 2006, 11:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Aug 25 2006, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Schaeffer@Aug 25 2006, 07:50 AM
I believe Felicite's question was, "How does Warborn handle it?" You trying to test the waters here BrahMcDraman? Cause I can just have you suspended now and save us both the trouble if you want. =P

well I mod with the general rule of "can a kid see it, is it in the right spot if a kid can't see it?" and "does my tummy turn, or head turn instinctivly?". SOE's rules I look at it as they are not my rules to enforce. The topic hasn't really come up at eqnecro though. Not sure how i would feel about it if warborn wanted me to mod based on that type of content.

You and I know damn well if i was testing the waters I would do far more then I have, and at this point i'm pretty sure i would just flat out ask you if i thought something i wanted to do was against the rules :) thank goodily goodness that there is at least one mod that acts like their are out to get me, instead of actually being out to get me ! [/b][/quote]
My question was real.. I thought the same chap posted Rashere's Beta Forum quotes on EQNecro.

Are they still there?

Yes, no.. or the quotes were never posted there (only here). Which please?

[Brahman]

you seem to be under the impression that i care about someone who is proud to be banned from there being up to date on whats going on there.

although it should be fairly obvious already.

let me clear it up a lil without actually answering your question for the above reason. If warborn had done something, i would have some idea of warborn's thoughts on it and we would have likly disscussed it.

[Maeryn]

Originally posted by Felicite@Aug 25 2006, 03:58 PM
Are they still there?

Yes, no.. or the quotes were never posted there (only here). Which please?
Yes Felicite, the quote was posted on eq necro, and is still there (as of this post).

[Felicite]

Thank you very much. *hugs*

[Ckador]

The newest registered user is Kytherea


Over on EQNecro, lawl.

[Brahman]

TY felicite for directing more EQ staff to register over at EQnecro.

so far thats 2 devs and their PR guy !

rawr.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 25 2006, 04:09 PM
TY felicite for directing more EQ staff to register over at EQnecro.

so far thats 2 devs and their PR guy !

rawr.
I was talking to Vanguard team on the phone.. they should be next. *nods*

[Brahman]

tiz ok i'm tight with them.

hell at least one of their community employees checks the boards for the tittie threads ;)

[Schaeffer]

that just reminded me...

[Xatrekak]

how many of you have read the entire NDA. 50% of the people my my estimate broke the NDA just by agree'ing to it as it requires you to be over 18,

dont know if this is relavent cause i didnt read the thread but just wanted to put it out there.

[Schaeffer]

Well, actually being under 18 technically isn't breaking the NDA. You can't legally agree to the NDA as a minor, therefore SoE shouldn't approve your app to beta. If they admit minors into beta who are under 18, technically SoE is violating thier own contract, legally the minor can't be held accountable because they have the right to void any contract at any point at their own discretion. This doesn't mean that SoE couldn't ban thier accounts however, just means that SoE can't sue them in retaliation. Judge Judy 4tw!

[Maeryn]

So Brahman, just out of curiosity did they make you take it down or was that the decision of EQ Necro?

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Maeryn@Aug 28 2006, 09:46 AM
So Brahman, just out of curiosity did they make you take it down or was that the decision of EQ Necro?
i thought it was obvious what happend, for the most part, by my prior post but seems some need it spelled out.

felicite found out it was still up, within the hour Kytherea signed up on eqnecro and asked warborn to remove it. In hopes of avoiding a hassle with a company with a much larger bankroll then eqnecro we moved it untill beta is over.

[Zeller TP]

Originally posted by Brahman+Aug 28 2006, 12:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Aug 28 2006, 12:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Maeryn@Aug 28 2006, 09:46 AM
So Brahman, just out of curiosity did they make you take it down or was that the decision of EQ Necro?
i thought it was obvious what happend, for the most part, by my prior post but seems some need it spelled out.

felicite found out it was still up, within the hour Kytherea signed up on eqnecro and asked warborn to remove it. In hopes of avoiding a hassle with a company with a much larger bankroll then eqnecro we moved it untill beta is over. [/b][/quote]
WTF? You gave in to "the man"?

[Brahman]

i am an admin, not the owner.

[Xislaben]

Really think it was kith?

[Zeller TP]

This should be a lesson to us all. When creating message boards related to EQ, never use an admin name that can be traced to your EQ character. Then SOE will have no lever on you.

[Brahman]

they can still use legal means to make ur life not so easy.

[Dranul]

Free speech does not give you the right to be immune to the consequences of your speech. Try cursing your boss out and see what happens, for example. While the soundness of copyright laws is debatable in today's world, SOE is still valid in its interest in making sure its NDA is adhered to. Brahman didn't buckle under pressure, he simply acknowledged the company's right to demand what it did, or he at least acknowledged the fact EQNecro wouldn't survive legal action if SOE would take it that far. Whether or not they actually would isn't really an issue, it's better to play things safe.

If there's any lesson to be had, it's never be successful if you start an EQ related board, so you never have the community size to warrant SOE paying attention to you.

[Zeller TP]

Exactly what could SOE have done, legally? The reporters at the NY Times that publish every leak of the U.S. Government seem to face no consequences. How would one prosecute the admin of a message board for a message posted by a user re: a video game?

[Schaeffer]

They have expensive lawyers they pay to sit around and figure out ways to mess with people with little or no repercussion to them, why risk it?

Because sometimes there's a man, and I'm talking about The Dude here, sometimes theres a man, and well, he's the man, for his time and place.

[Zeller TP]

Originally posted by Schaeffer@Aug 29 2006, 10:13 AM
They have expensive lawyers they pay to sit around and figure out ways to mess with people with little or no repercussion to them, why risk it?
Why risk it? If we don't risk it, we might as well close down all the unofficial EQ boards and go post on SOE's site. Oh wait, I can't do that anymore, so don't ...

But you get my meaning. Are we really going to let them censor us?

[Schaeffer]

There's a difference between someone reporting a breakage of the NDA and total censorship. If Kyth asked me to remove the thread about the CC, even though I don't think the arguement is worth it, I'd tell him/her to go to hell, but if they asked me to remove a thread violating the EULA or NDA, then yeah, i'd oblidge as a courtesy.

Pick your battles my friend, not every single one is worth fighting, even Brahman understands that, well sometimes anyway.

[Brahman]

again, if *I* owned the boards and it was my risk to take, i prolly would have. Its not though, and i can certainly understand why warborn does not wish to take it.

[Zeller TP]

Originally posted by Brahman@Aug 29 2006, 12:32 PM
again, if *I* owned the boards and it was my risk to take, i prolly would have. Its not though, and i can certainly understand why warborn does not wish to take it.
I stopped talking about EQNecro's decision a couple posts back. If SOE knows your character name, they've got you by the balls. So I don't begrudge the action taken.

The point about censorship was a general point, and related to a "what-if" scenario where SOE didn't know your character name, only your board's IP address. Despite threats, I really don't think they could do anything to you in that case. Hence the suggestion that future board creators don't reveal their character names.

With respect to the ethics of breaking an NDA, I guess that is a judgement call. But, IMO, SOE has screwed over their players so many times that I would never shed a tear about someone else doing it.

[Brahman]

my appoligizes i missed that gear shift.

although i doubt there will be many "future boards" for EQ hehe

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Zeller TP+Aug 29 2006, 06:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Zeller TP @ Aug 29 2006, 06:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Schaeffer@Aug 29 2006, 10:13 AM
They have expensive lawyers they pay to sit around and figure out ways to mess with people with little or no repercussion to them, why risk it?
Why risk it? If we don't risk it, we might as well close down all the unofficial EQ boards and go post on SOE's site. Oh wait, I can't do that anymore, so don't ...

But you get my meaning. Are we really going to let them censor us? [/b][/quote]
On a different scale, there are plenty of advantages to having a board where SOE is not looking over your shoulder on every post. As long as you don't break their rules, they don't have any reason to hang about. If you start breaking their rules, if they do nothing other than start monitoring the site it is an inconvenience as suddenly you have to start wondering if a great xp spot or pp maker will be nerfed as soon as you mention it in a few posts where they are watching. Whether or not they will target you legally... we don't want them to target us in game-related ways either, and that is certainly much easier for them to do.

[Quezquotyl]

Heh. SoE sues board owner for millions of dollars, settles out of court.

SoE: "Pay up or shut down the forums".

Board Owner: "Okay shutting the boards down now."

Really, who's going to win? The guy working for a living or the corp with a multi-million dollar legal budget. Yes the EFF will help, the violating boards owner sell their house to pay off legal fees.

When it's all said and done, the little guy is screwed no matter how you look at it. Better to er on the side of caution.

To free speech, yes you deal with the consequences of speech. Maybe SOE will ban you from playing their game, maybe not, but they have no right to force you to keep quiet. They only have the right to tell you to keep quiet. So fuck them anyway, just on principle.

The only way this principle is standing up is if you have the cash to back it up in court.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Sep 2 2006, 11:08 AM
So if you're standing around your house and your buddy that's in beta comes over and trashes the NDA by telling you and a group of friends all about the latest changes, does SOE have the right to come to your home and shut down the forum?

I would think not. By analogy, SOE can go fuck themselves when it comes to trying the same tactic with a message board SOE has no ownership of.

Should SOE pursue action on the NDA breaker? Yes, if they feel the need to take action, it should be against the NDA breaker, not the community.

To free speech, yes you deal with the consequences of speech. Maybe SOE will ban you from playing their game, maybe not, but they have no right to force you to keep quiet. They only have the right to tell you to keep quiet. So fuck them anyway, just on principle.

And finally, no, I don't think Kytherea really posted at EQnecro, and EQnecro should wait for some sort of legal notices to arrive in the mail before being cowed.
EQ employees would have an IP traceable to SOE, so yes we can confirm or deny the validity of the request.

Like i said, not my call but at least we don't do it for them, we only extended them a curtisy. Your boards jumped all over it with no request to do so, and started a beta forum where the admin would appear to allow access based on popularity rather then actually being in the beta or not.

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Brahman@Sep 2 2006, 05:45 PM
Your boards jumped all over it with no request to do so, and started a beta forum where the admin would appear to allow access based on popularity rather then actually being in the beta or not.
You follow directions on how to get into the beta forum, you get in. That simple.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Sep 2 2006, 01:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Sep 2 2006, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Sep 2 2006, 05:45 PM
Your boards jumped all over it with no request to do so, and started a beta forum where the admin would appear to allow access based on popularity rather then actually being in the beta or not.
You follow directions on how to get into the beta forum, you get in. That simple. [/b][/quote]
i did, i was informed i could get in following said directions with gnek. which i did, and was given access. Why then was it removed?

[Aryse Andenter]

Originally posted by Brahman+Sep 2 2006, 07:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Sep 2 2006, 07:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Sep 2 2006, 01:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Sep 2 2006, 05:45 PM
Your boards jumped all over it with no request to do so, and started a beta forum where the admin would appear to allow access based on popularity rather then actually being in the beta or not.
You follow directions on how to get into the beta forum, you get in. That simple.
i did, i was informed i could get in following said directions with gnek. which i did, and was given access. Why then was it removed? [/b][/quote]
Sorry Brahman, maybe Gnek can clear this up as I don't have a record of him telling me he verified you were in beta... and this is on my head if it wasn't done.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Aryse Andenter+Sep 2 2006, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Aryse Andenter @ Sep 2 2006, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Brahman@Sep 2 2006, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by Aryse Andenter@Sep 2 2006, 01:15 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Brahman@Sep 2 2006, 05:45 PM
Your boards jumped all over it with no request to do so, and started a beta forum where the admin would appear to allow access based on popularity rather then actually being in the beta or not.
You follow directions on how to get into the beta forum, you get in. That simple.
i did, i was informed i could get in following said directions with gnek. which i did, and was given access. Why then was it removed?
Sorry Brahman, maybe Gnek can clear this up as I don't have a record of him telling me he verified you were in beta... and this is on my head if it wasn't done. [/b][/quote]
not trying to be an ass here, but did you think i hacked the boards to get access? lol

[Schaeffer]

You crazy psycho hax0rs

[Brahman]

i r leet haxor !

[Brahman]

my comment about it being popularity is removed !

my appoligies for thinking the worst !

[Aryse Andenter]

Seems obvious I know, but I do have to verify that it wasn't a miss-click somewhere.

[Lyrath]

***edit*** Damn, didn't realize how old this post was.

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Sep 2 2006, 11:08 AM
So if you're standing around your house and your buddy that's in beta comes over and trashes the NDA by telling you and a group of friends all about the latest changes, does SOE have the right to come to your home and shut down the forum?

Sort of a faulty analogy.

Better one:

So if you're standing around your house and your buddy that's in beta comes over and trashes the NDA by putting a sign on your lawn about the latest changes, does SOE have the right to come to your home and ask you to remove the sign?

You didn't put the sign up, but you maintain it, and have the power to remove it. You can't undo reading it, but you can undo the damage it is causing to Sony on an ongoing basis by taking it down.

Someone posted NDA breaking info on eqnecro forums. Sony asked eqnecro to remove the post. The post was wisely (imo) removed.

Maybe they'd try legal action, maybe not. I'm sure Sony has an 800lb gorilla of a legal team. Why risk wrestling with that monster all because some jackass couldn't keep his mouth shut?

It's not about free speech, it's about publicly displaying what amounts to trade secrets and being asked to remove them. It would be foolish not to.

[Xislaben]

I think Doc still plays EQ as a halfling druid somewhere! :P