Not news, really

[daephyx]

http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/...ssage.id=280498 (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=280498)

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Sep 12 2006, 08:41 PM
Well, that will definitely scrap any plans of my comeback. See you later EQ, we hardly knew ye.
Devs are saying pet pulling is an exploit that they had as of yet been unable to identify the cause of. They have now found out the cause and will be fixing it, along with other pulling mechanics, as Rash said on the vet board there.

Over the course of beta, we've identified and corrected a number of issues that have been around for a while but were being exacerbated by the downtime changes we are making. There are two particular changes with the "call for help" routine that I want to draw attention to since they close loopholes that allow some questionable tactics that some of you may be using currently. I want you to be aware that they will no longer work after our next patch to save you the potential deaths from attempting them. These will also be in the patch notes.

1. When most NPCs call for help, they will only call for a small, set number of NPCs to respond to keep from swarming people with dozens of NPCs at once. There was a problem in the call for help routine that caused an NPC to not call for help again for a few seconds if it had already called for help and enough NPCs responded that they had met that maximum number the first time. This is what was enabling the so called "tick pulling" phenomenon whereby you could aggro an entire room, drop aggro, then immediate re-aggro a single NPC and it would come alone. This is now fixed and NPCs will now properly call for help every time they are aggro'd from a non-aggro state.
2. With the above problem fixed, we also had to address another bug in the same area to prevent just shifting the loophole form one tactic to another. This one had a similar effect, although for an entirely different reason. When a player sends a pet in to attack an NPC, the NPC uses the pet's leader to determine how the NPC reacts. In one part of the "call for help" routine, this check was missed and it was causing an NPC to not call for help if it was attacked by a green con pet of a PC. This particular bit of code is there for NPC vs NPC combat to keep NPCs from ganging up on each other, but the missing check for a PC leader caused it to not call for help if a PC sent a green con pet to aggro it. This is now fixed and the NPC is properly using the pet's leader for this check as well.

Again, both of these fixes will go out with our patch next week.

Rashere

[Qedd]

That does kinda suck ... although I'm still curious if it will work right if you're FD when you send in a pet, heh.

Add to that what I've heard about our new AA's, and it's really making this expansion suck nuts so far. I hope to hell they aren't the same on release.

Basic AA upgrades and some other useless shit. I swear they have no fucking clue what a necro does or needs.

[Pahrasyte]

How did you not know this was an exploit? did you think that they put boss mobs surrounded by adds with the intention of giving pet classes something to do with thier old, unused pets? I'm not saying i wouldn't have used this tactic, had i been asked... but i would've fully realized that i was doing something i wasn't supposed to.


Pahrasyte

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Pahrasyte@Sep 13 2006, 08:32 AM
How did you not know this was an exploit? did you think that they put boss mobs surrounded by adds with the intention of giving pet classes something to do with thier old, unused pets? I'm not saying i wouldn't have used this tactic, had i been asked... but i would've fully realized that i was doing something i wasn't supposed to.


Pahrasyte
pretty simply cause one of the devs or kytheria(whatever) posted that it was a legit tactic about a year ago.

[Pahrasyte]

Originally posted by Brahman@Sep 13 2006, 03:21 PM

pretty simply cause one of the devs or kytheria(whatever) posted that it was a legit tactic about a year ago.
And a GM told me to put practice points in defense once...




Pahrayste

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Pahrasyte@Sep 13 2006, 01:32 PM
How did you not know this was an exploit? did you think that they put boss mobs surrounded by adds with the intention of giving pet classes something to do with thier old, unused pets? I'm not saying i wouldn't have used this tactic, had i been asked... but i would've fully realized that i was doing something i wasn't supposed to.


Pahrasyte
There are other ways of pulling a single mob out of a crowd, why should this one be assumed to be an exploit and all the others be perfectly fine? It's not like pet pulling was foolproof and simple, not with trash hitting for 1.5k and fast, and named for more. Sure you could DA a pet, but I'm willing to bet 95% of pet pulling didnt use DA. Especially magicians who can use a fire pet that casts. It's been a mechanic widely used by pet classes for quite some time. Even the existing pet spells like Bulwark seem to have been included specifically for this purpose. With a single exception (Zun in Txevu) I wouldn't bother loading the spell otherwise.

[Dranul]

To be fair to the devs, while Bulwark's best use was for pet pulling, it was probably more likely put in to deal with complaints that pets die too quickly in raids. I'll generally Bulwark my pet right before engaging a raid mob, because it actually does allow him to continue doing his mediocre dps through a few AEs or AE Ramps. A sad way to address the issue, but I think that's more likely the intent behind Bulwark.

[sauruman]

Bulwark is best used for AE DD type effects on raids imo.

Pet pulling had a code issue thats now sadly resolved. It shouldn't affect us but in like in 1% of pulls. There are no raids or no content I'm aware of that relies on pet pulling, but I admit there are a few where pet pulling really sped things up. Its strange they chose now of all times to fix this issue, but whatever.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by sauruman@Sep 13 2006, 11:04 PM
Bulwark is best used for AE DD type effects on raids imo.

Pet pulling had a code issue thats now sadly resolved. It shouldn't affect us but in like in 1% of pulls. There are no raids or no content I'm aware of that relies on pet pulling, but I admit there are a few where pet pulling really sped things up. Its strange they chose now of all times to fix this issue, but whatever.
I've used it for Zun in Txevu, and nothing else. If the AE's and mechanics are that significant that my pet will likely die (like say on Ture) I'll just pocket the duder. Keeping the spell up along with the pet heal really isn't productive when trying to DPS (2 spell gems for 50-80 dps, plus cast times not spent on DoTs etc), unless most or all of your spells don't land and the pet IS your dps.

[Whispers Quietly]

" There are no raids or no content I'm aware of that relies on pet pulling ".

Don't anyone go on misconstruing this quote. This is not Sauromon time....

Ok the reason I pulled that line out, was because everyone has the perspective of this only refers to raids. Selfish thinking in my opinion. Granted more of you are LvL 70 and there are fewer of us. Lower than 70.

I have said this so often I feel like a broken record. I love to solo. LvL 62. love to solo. So I take on older content. Empty zones. Velks is fun, blues up the ---. The Kobald sit in rooms close together and pulling them is impossible, Except for pet pulling. The quarters there are way to close for FD pulling, and pet pulling is not guaranteed.

I will find a way around this, It may take awhile. Just do not keep saying it's not a big deal. You are not the only ones in the game believe it or not, This IS a very big deal...

I see Agro kiting as problematic as well now, If your doing damage to a mob, and the mob keeps hollaring for help; Depending on new agro radius, you may end up with way more adds than previous. Obviously agro over pet will be no problem.

Root/rot. Doing damage causing said mob to hollar, again. Agro radius will affect this. I do not think I can trust the developer to come up with something reasonable.

FD pull. Obvious out of question. /who is leader. Now will that affect your FD between dots as well? I'm not certain. Are you?....

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Whispers Quietly@Sep 13 2006, 06:42 PM
I have said this so often I feel like a broken record. I love to solo. LvL 62. love to solo. So I take on older content. Empty zones. Velks is fun, blues up the ---. The Kobald sit in rooms close together and pulling them is impossible, Except for pet pulling. The quarters there are way to close for FD pulling, and pet pulling is not guaranteed.
I use to FD split these guys when I was in the low-60s. It's not all that hard, though I would suggest pet hold so your pet doesn't get eaten if you make a mistake and have to FD.

[Nirruden]

I see Agro kiting as problematic as well now, If your doing damage to a mob, and the mob keeps hollaring for help; Depending on new agro radius, you may end up with way more adds than previous. Obviously agro over pet will be no problem.I don't see anything about changes to agro radii magnitudes - only to the frequency by which they are employed. This should not affect agrokiting, as described. If you agrokite by adds, you get adds - old or new.

Root/rot. Doing damage causing said mob to hollar, again. Agro radius will affect this. I do not think I can trust the developer to come up with something reasonable.No change, since mob was ALWAYS hollering for help while rooted - every spell you cast new on the mob would have caused this. Repops at the respawn while a mob was rooted at spawn would result in adds - mob calls for help the whole time.

What it does affect:
1. Green Pet Pull. /mourn.
2. Certain tag-team pulls.

While I have little faith that it will be implemented correctly, it is not necessary to blow the issue out of proportion by speculating wildly.

That said, this is a bad idea. Pet pulling is in no way superior to a live puller. It is not risk free, nor is it without detriments (like losing ~95% of your pet DPS). This disproportionately harms mages, necromancers, shadowknights, shamans and even druids (Go for the eyes, booboo! Go for the eyes!) to no real gain other than to force a slower and more difficult completion of various events (Shyra, mainly). I mourn GPP For mages, especially - they were heavily overspecialized before, and it's just gotten worse.

[nnigma]

Phara,
I also did not know pet pulling was an 'exploit'. I don't see how it can be conceived as an exploit. I consider my pet an extension of my abilities and a tool to be used. So, now I'm not alowed to sic pet, /pet hold, /pet FD..Un-FD myself tag mob? My pet is my partner,be the same as two monks playing tag?

Well, soe is gonna do what they want no matter what. They are doin what they do best. I see more stuff taken from game than put in. If this 'pet pulling' was an exploit why wasnt it fixed long time ago? O, just like our robes, been ingame for 2 years before they decided it was to be nerfed.

Anywho, I'll take whats given and deal. Just fixing stuff thats not really an issue. Think theres more important stuff that needs attended(mob pathing,sick of mobs getting to a certian spot,then cant decide if they are coming or goin,same with pets).

[Fargrace]

Speaking of spells, didn't anyone else notice the lack of ability to summon a corpse over the level of 70.

I am looking for peoples' take on the new expansion in reference to necros and I swore I found more issues with my necro then I did with my cleric or my monk. Hell my gimp cleric now has the life. She has beeetter mana regen at 66 then I do at 70.

[Fayed]

we get a new corpse summon at 72 iirc

[Todwelt]

Originally posted by archerphate@Sep 25 2006, 09:13 PM
we get a new corpse summon at 72 iirc
Exhumer's call (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=10042). Level 71 spell, consumes 2 tiny jade inlaid coffins.

[Fargrace]

Ouch, a new spell that was made more or less obsolete by the fact that whenever you need it the zone prohibits it and whenever you don't you can get a rezz in GL? That was a waste of a programmers time, it was definitely to be worthy to be called a level 71 spell.

Oh... that sounded opinionated... hmmmmm. I guess I better start researching better before spouting off at the mouth. I must be getting used to being screwed up as a class to assume first that the programmers screwed up and second that we get something new... well food for thought.

[Herby]

I miss the old pet pulling, but it is dead and gone, live with it. We are the most versitile and powerful class in the game. I am from the Kunark days, there was no such thing as pet pulling, power leveling or being able to twink an alt.


Pet pulling is still alive and well, you just have to change the way you do it.

I use a combo of snare pulling and pet pulling (pet runed).

Cast a snare in the crowd with pet on hold retreat as far as you can fd, let the mobs reset, send pet to pull snared out further. I have found in the new content if you dont do it this way the snared mobs tend to head back to their spawn point agroing others again when you get up.

Is much easier with another fd class, but pet pull works fine for soloers, just a bit more time consuming.

[Rdarkwill]

I have found in the new content if you dont do it this way the snared mobs tend to head back to their spawn point agroing others again when you get up.


Happens in old content as well if yer distance is to great when ya get back up. If ya run back into aggro range before the mob gets within social range it'll come after ya again.