In combat mana regen - any different?

[Vermilya]

Has anyone else noticed that when casting (I am using our 70 spells so as not to make a huge dent in mana with the new spells and a lack of focus gear etc) - our lich does not seem to regen mana as fast as before? When kiting, for example, if we need to we can sit down when the mob is a fair way away and just med up for a tick or two. Now though, we are still IN combat. Lich just does not seem to be returning the same amount of mana as it did before. It is bad enough that it doesn't stack with OOC mana regen, but for it to not work when in combat seems harsh. If it is just me, I hope to find out...I did a /bug on it. If it is everyone in the necro class then this is serious. I just cannot cast like I used to. Anyone else finding this with their usual spells? Please test it out and see what results you get, problems (or triumphs) etc. Not happy atm !

[Brahman]

i'll test this out.

there seems to be a general feeling from alot of peopel that something has changed.

[Brahman]

in combat i'm still getting over 120 mana / tic while sitting only self buffed

[Ewasx]

I'll start paying more attention, but unlike what happened with DoD release, I really am not noticing any problems with my mana usage, regen rate, or the death peace AA. I could be completely missing it though, as it seems that the pvp code no longer affects lich and I havn't noticed a change there.

I've done several lost notebook missions, pulling and casting nearly exactly as before with the only change being the lvl 71 lifetap and working my ass off trying to get killshots with venin, and even then I havn't had any problems with mana usage doing near constant pulls.

Wait what? It is bad enough that it doesn't stack with OOC mana regen

[sauruman]

I've not noticed the issue the OP refers to. But anything what-so-ever that you notice difference, let me/the community know. A lot of code was completely rewritten during this beta, and a lot of the consequences of those changes are yet to be discovered. Stay vigilant nec's.

[Jebasiz]

AOTD spawning + epic 2.5 click = no big red skeleton! After the pets all spawn it works right, but the red skeleton won't spawn while the army pets are rising.

[Aegrusnecrox]

It's that way for the 1.5 and the 2.0 too jeb, it's been like that for way long before TSS.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Aegrusnecrox@Sep 25 2006, 01:49 AM
It's that way for the 1.5 and the 2.0 too jeb, it's been like that for way long before TSS.
correct method is to click epic, then archers, then army.

[Fargrace]

DoT hurts us compared to other classes that nuke and sit ect. It took a bit for me to figure out why my cleric was ALWAYS FM and my Necro casting roughly the same was never FM. Cleric casting CH on Tank and a HoT on puller each mob gave me time to meet the new timer and regen quickly, but as a necro with casting DoTs, I never loose agro of the mob therefore never meet the timer. Where before, we had an excelerated Mana Regen when waiting for a Snared mob to get close (during kiting).

Doesn't hurt so much and we can finally quit being mana batteries for everyone else, but pretty much means we don't get the same advantages as other characters have with down time between casts unless you depend on Nukes more. In short, it is official, all other mana classes surpass us on mana regen in a real game scenario.

I did a bug report too... but I don't see us as getting anything fixed.

[Vermilya]

Well, it's official, we have been bombed back to the EQ stone age. Our mana efficiency is lower than PoP. Please, if ever there was a time for our necro class correspondent to shine this is it. Sauraman, PLS get this fixed. We are being killed as a class here, this is game breaking. There is a thread called: Please repair Lich, and reassess Affliction Efficiency on the EQlive Forums (http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=293647)

Please contribute, or talk to Prathun or whoever it is about this. Above all pls get it fixed.

[sauruman]

This is the weekly question I will be submitting (I'm open to suggestions to beef it up):


Can necromancer in-combat mana regen be looked into, to restore our longstanding monopoly on mana regen?

The OoC mana regen system is doing tremendously positive things for EQ. However, during raids, the 5min rest timer means the OoC changes rarely effect the necromancer as much as other classes due to our superior mana regen.

Also, the effiency of our spells has fallen *significantly* over the past few expansions, notably the latest expansion TSS. This has hampered our ability to keep up our damaging on long duration fights. Adding to this issue is the removal of the AE/AH dot specific lines, which were necessary in the past to keep us in-line with other damaging classes.

This has nothing to do with class envy, we are simply seeking re-definition of our lich line to keep us with the times and evolution of the game at present.

[Fargrace]

Being that our only leg to stand on is that other players in the game expect us to have mana and we are now meditating more than the clerics. I see this as a pretty weak arguement. I still think it should be fixed, but looking in from another class I see that as being a moot point and an easily countered arguement. Sorry, I don't see a way to beef it up.

Possible solution without major reprogramming might be to allow a successful Feign Death state to activate the counter the same as sitting with no agro. This can work for all FD classes as monks are rarely FD for long periods of time and SK's are rarely FD as well making it a moot point for them.

As for the fact that Lich is broken, if they aren't willing to fix what they know to be broken then what are we paying them for... in my opinion necros have been allowed to be on the backburner so long we are starting to fall apart.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by sauruman@Sep 26 2006, 01:46 PM
This is the weekly question I will be submitting (I'm open to suggestions to beef it up):


Can necromancer in-combat mana regen be looked into, to restore our longstanding monopoly on mana regen?

The OoC mana regen system is doing tremendously positive things for EQ. However, during raids, the 5min rest timer means the OoC changes rarely effect the necromancer as much as other classes due to our superior mana regen.

Also, the effiency of our spells has fallen *significantly* over the past few expansions, notably the latest expansion TSS. This has hampered our ability to keep up our damaging on long duration fights. Adding to this issue is the removal of the AE/AH dot specific lines, which were necessary in the past to keep us in-line with other damaging classes.

This has nothing to do with class envy, we are simply seeking re-definition of our lich line to keep us with the times and evolution of the game at present.

This will get torn apart. Forget about the title/crown, lets get a workable solution.

You'd be better off asking for dots(ashengate pyre and vakk'dra's-which could use a good dmg boost too) to be more mana efficient or having the clarity line stack with lich(I'm against this in principle)..I love our ability to be self sufficient, but after giving it some thought, it's probably the best way for EVERYONE to get more mana regen, it'll also give us a 500 mana buff which is pretty cool.

We should work towards a resolution that everyone can benefit from, not just those that are >10k hps unbuffed(which is what a huge lich would do).

[pizer]

the devs may be more inclined to give us better DPM via longer lasting dots.. say get AP to 6 or even 7 tick base duration for the same mana cost. They're not going to raise the damage significantly, and i kind of think they'd be more inclined to raise the duration rather then lower the mana cost.

the only problem is this still sucks ass for grouping

i'd still like to see an AA overstacking lich we could hit on big mobs for extra mana, make the hp 5% fixed drain and the mana 2.5% fixed increase or something along those lines

[Aegrusnecrox]

3 words:

Damage Per Mana

I dont care how we get it, but we need it. Badly.

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by pizer@Sep 30 2006, 01:12 PM
the devs may be more inclined to give us better DPM via longer lasting dots.. say get AP to 6 or even 7 tick base duration for the same mana cost. They're not going to raise the damage significantly, and i kind of think they'd be more inclined to raise the duration rather then lower the mana cost.

the only problem is this still sucks ass for grouping

i'd still like to see an AA overstacking lich we could hit on big mobs for extra mana, make the hp 5% fixed drain and the mana 2.5% fixed increase or something along those lines
5% fixed drain per tick? That's 800 damage a tick for 300-350mana for me, on raids. I'd have to pass, that's just slightly better then bloodmagic for the mana return. Also, mana usage isn't that much more fighting dp, dk, vergalid, etc as it is fighting hanvar, jelvan or Pixx Xxeric Kex(providing spell books are equal). The % based scaling wouldn't help those necros out as much, but they'd be casting roughly the same spells, consuming the same(and due to preservations) possibly more mana.

Better dpm and clarity line stacking is probably the best way to go. It's a fix for everyone, not just people in the highest raiding zones in the game. With that solution we run into a huge lich killing necros that aren't that well dressed, especially when combined with AE's.

[Brahman]

but...

i don't want clarity...

:(

[Jebasiz]

I don't either, but the only alternative of asking for a 120mana return lich, the dmg (likely 150 or higher knowing parthun) portion would eat people alive.

DPoB, DK, possibly anguish geared players would be cool with it...but we should push for a fix for everyone, not just people who raid.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Oct 1 2006, 12:44 PM
I don't either, but the only alternative of asking for a 120mana return lich, the dmg (likely 150 or higher knowing parthun) portion would eat people alive.

DPoB, DK, possibly anguish geared players would be cool with it...but we should push for a fix for everyone, not just people who raid.
that is a fix everyone can deal with. They can adjust their gear priorities accordingly and go back to casting a tap every other mob like we used to.

The biggest mistake the devs made with necro's was not giving us mana expensive spells sooner, and the liches to match. Now everyone is used to lich doing nothing, and having it do some real damage again is frightening to them.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Brahman+Oct 1 2006, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Oct 1 2006, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Jebasiz@Oct 1 2006, 12:44 PM
I don't either, but the only alternative of asking for a 120mana return lich, the dmg (likely 150 or higher knowing parthun) portion would eat people alive.

DPoB, DK, possibly anguish geared players would be cool with it...but we should push for a fix for everyone, not just people who raid.
that is a fix everyone can deal with. They can adjust their gear priorities accordingly and go back to casting a tap every other mob like we used to.

The biggest mistake the devs made with necro's was not giving us mana expensive spells sooner, and the liches to match. Now everyone is used to lich doing nothing, and having it do some real damage again is frightening to them. [/b][/quote]
We *could* do that. However, the inefficiency of lifetapping/draining probably wouldn't give people that much more mana...especially solo.

I also don't see why you'd want to revert back to kunark in terms of lich damaging us. As an iksar I rarely cared, but seeing life constantly dropping solely because I'm standing isn't something I look forward to(which it might not even, due to racial regen and new regen aa), when there is another solution.

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Oct 2 2006, 09:28 AM
We *could* do that. However, the inefficiency of lifetapping/draining probably wouldn't give people that much more mana...especially solo.

I also don't see why you'd want to revert back to kunark in terms of lich damaging us. As an iksar I rarely cared, but seeing life constantly dropping solely because I'm standing isn't something I look forward to(which it might not even, due to racial regen and new regen aa), when there is another solution.
because its suppose to be part of our class?

It doesn't strike you as silly that even decently geared casual necro's don't loose hps to lich?

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Brahman@Oct 2 2006, 08:35 AM
It doesn't strike you as silly that even decently geared casual necro's don't loose hps to lich?
Actually.. it does.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

It doesn't strike you as silly that even decently geared casual necro's don't loose hps to lich? I would consider myself a decently geared casual player (~7600 hp) and I do not out regen lich without a regen buff on. /shrug

As a casual if you are not losing hp to lich you are concentrating far too much on hp regen over other better stats such as raw hp or foci.

[Rijak]

I actually enjoyed losing HP and then sucking 'em back up. It's part of the thrill of necropotency. There's nothing like telling a cleric not to worry about you as you bounce between 100% and 40%.

Plus, nine times out of ten you are using your lifetaps anyway due to the situation or resists. Sure, they are inefficient, but with mana regen and pools what they are today, even efficiency hardly matters that much in most cases.

And, if DPM is really a problem, just try to get the Devs to lower the mana costs on our spells a bit.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Rijak@Oct 2 2006, 04:09 PM
I actually enjoyed losing HP and then sucking 'em back up. It's part of the thrill of necropotency. There's nothing like telling a cleric not to worry about you as you bounce between 100% and 40%.

Plus, nine times out of ten you are using your lifetaps anyway due to the situation or resists. Sure, they are inefficient, but with mana regen and pools what they are today, even efficiency hardly matters that much in most cases.

And, if DPM is really a problem, just try to get the Devs to lower the mana costs on our spells a bit.
How can you say efficiency isn't a problem and DPM is to low in the same post?

[Brahman]

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Oct 3 2006, 10:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Oct 3 2006, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Oct 2 2006, 04:09 PM
I actually enjoyed losing HP and then sucking 'em back up. It's part of the thrill of necropotency. There's nothing like telling a cleric not to worry about you as you bounce between 100% and 40%.

Plus, nine times out of ten you are using your lifetaps anyway due to the situation or resists. Sure, they are inefficient, but with mana regen and pools what they are today, even efficiency hardly matters that much in most cases.

And, if DPM is really a problem, just try to get the Devs to lower the mana costs on our spells a bit.
How can you say efficiency isn't a problem and DPM is to low in the same post? [/b][/quote]
jeb seriously you are causing alot of people to question your ability to think and consider information.

he said *IF* DPM was an issue, not that it was.

[Maeryn]

I realize some of you like to be all oldschool about it, but speaking as someone who's lazy as fuck and did a happy dance the day I relized I could out-regen lich, I don't wanna go back to that. Way too much work when raids are sitting around for up to half an hour at a time going over strats, waiting for people to get to the zone, finish buffs, etc. I zone in, I lich, and I don't want to think about it for another hour.

I will, however, agree that our DPM sucks. It didn't bother me right off the bat, but on raid targets when I'm stacking 8-9 DoTs, I'm going oom faster than clerics. Which, when you consider that we really didn't get THAT big of a dps upgrade with TSS is crap, because it means I can't consistently stack as many DoTs as I'm used to being able to, which puts me right where I was before the expansion came out.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Maeryn@Oct 3 2006, 06:44 PM
I will, however, agree that our DPM sucks. It didn't bother me right off the bat, but on raid targets when I'm stacking 8-9 DoTs, I'm going oom faster than clerics. Which, when you consider that we really didn't get THAT big of a dps upgrade with TSS is crap, because it means I can't consistently stack as many DoTs as I'm used to being able to, which puts me right where I was before the expansion came out.
With TSS spells now we can get a little more DPS, but as you noted we won't be casting nearly as long due to DPM, so the total dmg is more or less a wash.

I think for the longer duration encoutners it's probably better to not use TSS spells at all until we can get decent foci to 75, both mana pres and dmg.

[Nirruden]

Just a few random thoughts as I'm passing by - some better than others - that I don't want to forget before I can sit down and give this matter the thought it really deserves.

Hypothesis:
A DOT-centric caster, such as the necromancer is experiencing a problem not due to the presence of OOC regen itself, but due to the fact that OOC regen DWARFS the in-combat benefits provided by lich-type spells in most every instance. This increase in non-necromancer regeneration rate allows them to push on faster than previously, effectively negating the benefits given to us previously by our increased regeneration rate.

Suggestions:
1. Improve DPM ratio and rebalance necromancer/shaman spells across the board.

Necromancer spells have fallen in efficiency in TSS over the last expansion. This is indisputable. Add in the fact that OOC regen dwarfs our passive mana regeneration boost, and you find a situation where our spells have been balanced around an advantage (vastly superior comparative mana regeneration) we actually no longer possess. The playing field has been levelled for everyone else, but our spells remain as they were balanced before the rules of the game were changed.

Prior to the OOC changes, an unbuffed level 65 character regenerated mana at approximately 35% of the rate of a necromancer. After the changes, an UNBUFFED character who sits down at the same moment as a necromancer has regenerated ~80% of the total mana regenerated by a fully self-buffed necromancer after just 14 ticks.

Assuming:
1. 10k mana pool
2. meditation = 25FT for 65th level
3. sitting regeneration=4FT without meditate @ 65th level
4. Force Shield = 2FT
5. Lich and Force Shield on the necromancer and other character is unbuffed.
6. Both are sitting at the instant mob dies, and remain sitting until FM.

Formula:
A. (Unbuffed regen per tick + buff regen per tick) = Pre-OOC regen per tick. (5 ticks)
B. (.03*ManaPool) + A = OOC Regen per tick (Thereafter)

Unbuffed toon: 25+4 per tick unbuffed.
Lich-And-Shield: 50+4+2 per tick.

Both gain the same amount of OOC regen (333 per tick).

Unbuffed: FM @ 198 seconds OOC regen, 228 seconds total.
Necro: FM @ 174 seconds OOC regen, 204 seconds total.

Conclusion: A character with no buffs will be FM a whopping 24 seconds slower than a lich-and-forceshield-buffed necromancer if both start from 0 mana. (For those of you playing the home game, that's less time than Horror runs, and less than the OOC delay timer on groupable mobs. This is hardly an inconvenience.)

2. Reduce duration on spells while preserving DPM and total output. (Yes, this is a boost to DPS)

If we're going to lose efficiency, we'd better gain something in the bargain. DPS might be a good candidate.

3. Alter Lich to be progressive.
I'm not sure about this one, but a splurt-type lich that began at current values and ramped up both damage and mana regeneration with each tick might work better than a percentage based lich or an over-lich type spell. Those with big HP/Mana pools could let it run for a few more ticks. Those without would start slow and have to click off sooner. (How long can you hold on to that font of white-hot power, necromancer?)

4. Make DOT spells drain mana over time instead of an upfront cost.
If a spell costs 100 mana and lasts 10 ticks now, then it costs 10 mana per tick to cast it or to keep it running under the new system. If you run out early, your spells (including snare!) end early.If the mob dies before your spells run to completion, you don't spend the full mana.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Oct 3 2006, 10:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Oct 3 2006, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Oct 2 2006, 04:09 PM
I actually enjoyed losing HP and then sucking 'em back up. It's part of the thrill of necropotency. There's nothing like telling a cleric not to worry about you as you bounce between 100% and 40%.

Plus, nine times out of ten you are using your lifetaps anyway due to the situation or resists. Sure, they are inefficient, but with mana regen and pools what they are today, even efficiency hardly matters that much in most cases.

And, if DPM is really a problem, just try to get the Devs to lower the mana costs on our spells a bit.
How can you say efficiency isn't a problem and DPM is to low in the same post? [/b][/quote]
When I was playing my L70 Necro, I simply never went OOM on a boss mob, short of tap-tanking. The fights were never long enough. But I only did Pre-Qvic stuff, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that maybe Necros do go OOM.

However, if they do go OOM, you'd really have to double the returns from lich to make any substanial difference, if not more. So it seems to make much more sense to just lower the mana cost of the spells.

And it seems to me that the damage lich does to you is almost a non-factor these days. HP regen is sky-high between gear and buffs, potions and soul orbs give you endless free regen and, at least in my experience, nine time out of ten I'm using a tap over time because it lands on a mob when other stuff will not.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Brahman+Oct 3 2006, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Brahman @ Oct 3 2006, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by Jebasiz@Oct 3 2006, 10:20 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Oct 2 2006, 04:09 PM
I actually enjoyed losing HP and then sucking 'em back up. It's part of the thrill of necropotency. There's nothing like telling a cleric not to worry about you as you bounce between 100% and 40%.

Plus, nine times out of ten you are using your lifetaps anyway due to the situation or resists. Sure, they are inefficient, but with mana regen and pools what they are today, even efficiency hardly matters that much in most cases.

And, if DPM is really a problem, just try to get the Devs to lower the mana costs on our spells a bit.
How can you say efficiency isn't a problem and DPM is to low in the same post?
jeb seriously you are causing alot of people to question your ability to think and consider information.

he said *IF* DPM was an issue, not that it was. [/b][/quote]
I don't consider a lich upgrade of 10-15mana regen(which probably all we'd get, although Sauruman plans on asking for much much more) in which people with 4k hps spend every once of that mana they get from the upgrade lifetapping. I don't see that as a fix..since they won't be dotting in groups or solo any more then they are now.

Now assume sauruman hits a homerun and we get the 130mana regen lich we wanted. Damage is around 160ish per tick. Personally, I'd be fine with a 150-180dmg lich. Pvp mitigation + dot shielding + max regen may even counter that for me. There are a lot of people that it'd be eaten alive though.

I'm trying to avoid making necromancers dependant on things like regen potions, other classes buffs or inefficiently tapping while soloing. OOCR will kick in before any concievable lich would kill a raid geared necro, that's not the problem. It's the casually/group geared necro that would get boned(again)..if a huge lich went in.

[sauruman]

I'm an advocate of the "lich fix" mainly because its easy, and lich damage hasn't meant what it used to for years. If lich were increased, everything else would fall in line. Yes, it would be harsh for lower geared soloing people. But they wouldn't have this lich anyways for a while. That unbuffed, solo, and without all my regen aa's BEFORE the fix on pvp regen I was still gaining hps/tick on otherside rank 1, tells me something. There is no risk to the lich line, and it needs to be adjusted anyways, so why not link the risk to the increased efficiency. Remember luclin era, or earlier, when you had to click off lich when you AFK'd so you didn't die? That went away for most raiders at some point in the progression, and I think it would be neat to bring it back if the reward for that risk were appropriate (note that I strongly advocated re-fixing the lich pvp code b/c I felt the risk v. reward wasn't appropriate). I haven't advocated this "lich-fix" approach over others, its just my personal idea on how to fix the overall issue.

But irregardless, I think TSS spell efficiency fixes must happen. Ashengate Pyre DPM as worse then Dread Pyre pre-foci, is just plain nuts. It makes no sense to me.

This is the weekly question I posted this morning, we'll see how it goes:
"Can necromancer spell efficiency be revisited?

Necromancer efficiency in every setting has been on the decline, creating a serious crisis with the TSS spell set. Spells cost more mana across the board and provide less efficiency then their prior expansion counterparts, with the ultimate example being Ashengate Pyre. We understand that as our damage increases, our spell mana costs should increase too, but the scaling should follow established trends and increase over time instead of decrease. These issues aren't caused just because of foci not scaling, but are due to the raw spell data of our spelline.

The result is the situation we are in now. Recasting short and mana inefficient dots to sustain reasonable dps rapidly drains Necromancer mana. Necromancers as a result can go OOM in a considerably short amount of time in a group or raid setting. Necromancers that are inferiorly geared suffer even more from the issue, who do not have the foci to help them compensate for the inefficiency. But it also really effects the amount of time a Necromancer can sustain a respectable amount of damage in the raid setting, by well geared folks. The Necromancer no longer is the king of sustained damage over time, but is instead something of a medium duration fight dps class as a result of these trends.

We have several ideas on how to fix this issue, and a related issue of overall mana regen over time which hasn't scaled either up to this point, and has exacerbated the crisis.

1) Retroactively look at the efficiency of our DoT spells and make adjustments. This is the best solution for the health of our class and the best way to fix the issue on all fronts. Several of our new TSS spells, such as Ashengate Pyre, have horrendous efficiency especially when considered in proximity to prior expansion spells of similar nature. When Affliction Efficiency/Affliction Haste was taken out of the game, we were lead to believe the foci would no longer be necessary to playing a Necromancer, but the plain fact is we haven't seen the increase in efficiency we were promised with the removal of those lines.

2) Scale up lich mana regen considerably. With the rapid increase of in combat mana regen of other damaging classes, necromancers are no longer kings of the in combat mana regen in consideration of a length of time. We are happy for other classes gains, but we don't feel justice was done on our recent TSS lich, otherside rank 3, at 85/tick.

3) Change the way Out Of Combat (OoC) works for Necromancers. Make the zero tick of dots reset the rest timer for the Necromancer, but not subsequent ticks. Nuking classes can toss in a nuke at low life if they want to rest timer through a fight, whereas the only efficient way a necromancer can contribute is to cast DoT's at the beginning of the encounter, which stops the rest timer from ever resetting. Or make Feign Death instantaneously drop any active In Combat Timer, which would help considerably in many situations."

[Rijak]

It doesn't sound bad. But if the real issue is DPM, don't confuse matters with Lich. Fix DPM first (either via increasing damage on DoTs or lowering mana cost), then address Lich, since the DPM tradeoff between using your best tap-over-time in your 8th gem vs. using your eighth-best DoT in your 8th gem is minimal.

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Rijak@Oct 4 2006, 10:38 AM
..in your 8th gem..
How Retro you Progressives are! 8th gem how quaint!

[Jebasiz]

I wouldn't mind Gathering Dusk turning into a mana drain in lieu of the damage component. Perhaps 3 shots of 1k mana instead of damage, just make the refresh like 5-6 mins not 10. Perhaps even adding an aa like this for mana, if they don't want to change the existing one.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Felicite+Oct 4 2006, 12:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Felicite @ Oct 4 2006, 12:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Oct 4 2006, 10:38 AM
..in your 8th gem..
How Retro you Progressives are! 8th gem how quaint![/b][/quote]
Busted! =)

[Jebasiz]

A pm to my new friend (kytherea).

I've done some extensive usage/expirementation with the new spells and how they effect necromancers through their usage. At first I didn't believe the complaints, but now that I've done some mana usage calculations and watched that blue bar bounce around..I'm inclined to agree with some of what others have posted.

Simply put, lich did not scale with mana consumption in TSS. It's not even close with the degradation(and lack of continuance of Affliction Efficiency lines). I'd like to see either a 20% drop(or dps gain) in mana cost for ashengate pyre and Vakk'dra's sickly mists..or a 30% gain in mana return with "otherside". I believe that this would scale with our spell costs, or make the spell cost something we could live with through exceptional damage. Right now, most people simply cannot afford to add these spells to our spell line-ups. That's clearly unacceptable, imo.

She answered me once..maybe I'll get lucky?

[hughman]

Never mind, re- read what was posted and I had misunderstood what was said.