TSS AAs are EXPENDABLE !!!

[Mamael]

I am outraged. :angry: :angry: :angry: I bought Glyph of Draconic Potential for 3AA. It raises your HP and mana caps by 750 for 10 minutes. Sounds nice eh? Turns out it overwrites your normal Shield buff (Shield of Darkness) and it's EXPENDABLE ... means you use it once and it's gone ... you have to buy it again with another 3AA if you want it. I didn't notice the EXPENDABLE part of the description ... tested it to see how it worked, and POOF!!! 3 AAs flushed. Bugged it because it should have stacked with Shield, and petitioned for AA refund until stacking fixed ... GM pointed out single use attribute, refused a refund and closed the petition ticket.

First EXPENDABLE AAs ... might not have minded so much if I had got a limited, but reasonably large, number of reuses -- say 100, but single use for 3AA is outrageous. And although it was labeled EXPENDABLE there really should have been a warning because the ability breaks the normal AA ability conventions.

I'm trying to be a little reasonable, but it's got me thinking about the time and money I spent on this game, and how it might have been better spent ... or how I might better spend it in the future.

I wouldn't have posted this, but people really should be warned about the new TSS AAs

Anybody have any suggestions about how to get the AAs refunded?

[Meph]

What part of expendable didn't you understand in aa description? Should they make em rainbow color each letter being a different color in addition to EXPENDABLE or add a quote from dictionary what expendable means?

Or did you really think you'll get permanent +750 hp/mana for 3 aa's? /sigh

They're ment for players who have maxed out aa's...

[hughman]

/agree meph

[FCseven]

/edit

[Meph]

Reset yout specs in temple of sol ro?

[FCseven]

/edit

[Meph]

You can max em out in a few days tops... /sigh

[Brahman]

wow SPED classes are needed around here....

[FCseven]

/sigh

[Xebitikz]

Lol.

[Mamael]

Answering some of these replies:

Meph posted:

What part of expendable didn't you understand in aa description? Should they make em rainbow color each letter being a different color in addition to EXPENDABLE or add a quote from dictionary what expendable means?

Or did you really think you'll get permanent +750 hp/mana for 3 aa's? /sigh

They're ment for players who have maxed out aa's...

1. No I didn't think it was permanent. It was listed as lasting 10 minutes. I assumed it would be recastable after some delay. I thought it would be situationally useful, especially for self-buffing when no buffers conveniently around.

2. Who knew what EXPENDABLE meant in an AA context. I've never seen it before. Game nomenclature is constantly changing: e.g. "NO DROP" to "NO TRADE." So maybe it was a change in nomenclature or AA training for the new expansion. I don't know of any other AAs that are single use! Nearest in-game feature is Spell Scrolls, which have 1 charge and poof when you mem them ... BUT THEY DON'T POOF WHEN YOU USE THE ABILITY.

3. And "intended use" for people who have maxed out their AAs ... man that is lame! A player with that many AAs would never need to raise HP and mana caps by 750 or less (overwrites other HP buffs) for 10 minutes! Damn, it didn't even add HP or mana, so you would have had to regen out of combat for them to be remotely useful. If you can out-regen your use in-combat, you don't need this AA. Duh!

4. I am currently working on my first 100 AAs ... and I'll never reach the godly state of maxed out AAs, so I really feel cheated by this AA scam. Again, I doubt that I'm the only one who might have misinterpreted the description, so I thought it was useful to warn others, and maybe even get SOE to do something about it.

5. And yes, I'm still angry about this! The GM could have could have refunded the AAs. I would have been happy and and wiser, and would only have posted a much cooler version of this warning.

[Fayed]

there are only 4 or 5 "expendable" aas in TSS. The Glyph series are all 3aa per teir adn once you use the AA You have to buy again to use again.

They Have "EXPENDABLE" written write on them. They were publisized as being expendable aa. in EQ "EXPENDABLE" means poof when used.

There is no reason you should get your aa refunded. You chose aa that were gona poof when you used them. If you didnt know what the expendable tag ment, A.) Ask someone, B.) Don't buy them.

Blameing SOE because you made a mistake is kinda lame. Next your goma be asking for SOE to get all that xp back cause you didnt mean to die.

[Zandramadass]

1. No I didn't think it was permanent. It was listed as lasting 10 minutes. I assumed it would be recastable after some delay. I thought it would be situationally useful, especially for self-buffing when no buffers conveniently around.

Words of wisdom - When in doubt ask!

3. And "intended use" for people who have maxed out their AAs ... man that is lame! A player with that many AAs would never need to raise HP and mana caps by 750 or less (overwrites other HP buffs) for 10 minutes! Damn, it didn't even add HP or mana, so you would have had to regen out of combat for them to be remotely useful. If you can out-regen your use in-combat, you don't need this AA. Duh!

750hp/mana well thats 2 maybe 3 CH's for clr to keep the tank up... extra 750hp for tank to give time to clr to get that CH off... as stated this and the other expendable aa's are for chars who have purchased all the important AA's so likely raiders or pretty well geared casuals who have no problem maxing out the new hp/mana caps...

4. I am currently working on my first 100 AAs ... and I'll never reach the godly state of maxed out AAs, so I really feel cheated by this AA scam. Again, I doubt that I'm the only one who might have misinterpreted the description, so I thought it was useful to warn others, and maybe even get SOE to do something about it.

A lower lvl person or one with few AA's should see no reason to purchase this even if they are confused as to what expendable means tho its pretty self explainatory. SOE is not going to do anything regarding this. You made a rash foolish decision to buy something without finding out exactally what it did. If you had purchased it but not used it the GM's might have refunded your AA but once you used it those AA were as good as lost to you.

Moral of the story boys and girls is that if something looks too good to be true then it prolly is and if your not 100% certain how something works its always better to ask someone who does before jumping off the cliff and wondering how that parachute strapped to your back works.

[Mamael]

Archerphate said:

They Have "EXPENDABLE" written write on them. They were publisized as being expendable aa. in EQ "EXPENDABLE" means poof when used.

There is no reason you should get your aa refunded. You chose aa that were gona poof when you used them. If you didnt know what the expendable tag ment, A.) Ask someone, B.) Don't buy them.

Blameing SOE because you made a mistake is kinda lame. Next your goma be asking for SOE to get all that xp back cause you didnt mean to die.

1. They were not publicized ... I never saw anything about single use AAs. Spells poof but the ability doesn't. AA training might poof, but the ability should not. It's possible there was something written about this somewhere, but it's pretty poor publicity it if the people who will be affected don't know about it.

2. How often have you got useful information from players in-game in a new expansion. In my experience just about never, unless you read it on a board like this.

3. Blaming SOE for designing and launching a lame AA, and providing an inadequate description of it is exactly the right thing to do. I am a software dev, and I've designed and implemented a good many user interfaces. It is, in fact, the dev's fault if he misleads his users, or makes it easy for them to do apparently stupid things. Users don't necessaarily share the point of view of the devs, and a smart dev is quick to fix the problem. And a smart company doesn't let a paying customer feel he's been victimized by a design error and an unresponsive field service rep.

[Nadori]

Its not a design error.


Just think of this as a very expensive way of learning something not to do next time. It's understandable where youre upset ...but really it is too good to be true...you should have known that.

Either way good luck

P.S. I found that the server channels are not really helpful at all. Most people barely pay any attention to them. You need to find a good serverwide channel. There you will know people from talking to them and they will be more likely to help at short notice. I usualy don't depend on that either. I keep Lucy and Alla open...

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Bah I say to server channels being helpful!!!

my personal help:

;tell luclin.Xelgadis "Insert Question Here";

:D

kidding, of course... but you can send me a ;tell drinal.Gnekroe and I try to be helpful :P I am sure many of the members of this board would gladly dispense advice ingame if you are patient and respectful.

[Mamael]

You made a rash foolish decision to buy something without finding out exactally what it did.

We make rash foollish decisions to buy AAs all the time ... AAs like channeling focus, or spell casting subtlty, which have a description, but can't even be verified to actually do anything!

If you had purchased it but not used it the GM's might have refunded your AA but once you used it those AA were as good as lost to you.

Catch-22! I bow to Yossarian's ghost!

Just think of this as a very expensive way of learning something not to do next time. ROFLMAO! It is that, and it IS wrong!


It's understandable where youre upset ...but really it is too good to be true...you should have known that.
Not too good to be true: HP potions give nearly +500 to HP cap,last 30 minutes, and stack with Shield. Glyph's 10-minute duration, and only raising HP/mana caps - not HP or mana, limits it's utility. SOE made much bigger changes in TSS expansion: ooc regen!!! Seemed like a very reasonable AA to make available. And I love the FD and Invis AAs, which seemed too good to be true, when I first heard about them !!!

There was nothing on the boards about TSS Glyph AAs, so you buy it and see if you like it, just like other new AAs that no one has experience with. I take issue with the description, and SOEs Catch-22 ... If I had known it was single use, I *never* would have bought it, so I could have got a refund if I had bought it but not used it. But I used it and found out it *was* single use, so I can't get a refund. Brain-dead!!!

I also assert that the Glyph of Draconic Potential is bugged: it should stack with Shield of Darkness, not overwrite it.

That's probably the last I'll write about this ... venting helps a little ... and maybe this will save some AAs for others. And to the SOE defenders: I salute you! /sigh !

[Nadori]

Yes hehe it does help and hopefuly someone else will learn something too.
I'm sorry that happened to you :(

My personal help :P

Ckador
Xislaben
Gnek
and Xel

Thanks guys

[Felicite]

Originally posted by Mamael+Oct 19 2006, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mamael @ Oct 19 2006, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Zandramadass
You made a rash foolish decision to buy something without finding out exactally what it did.

We make rash foollish decisions to buy AAs all the time ... AAs like channeling focus, or spell casting subtlty, which have a description, but can't even be verified to actually do anything! [/b][/quote]
On the balance.. you are pissed and it's somewhat understandable.

But.. this one quote I have to backup Zandramadass on. Even the AAs that you sited I bought because I believed I knew what they did. The fact that they did nothing.. well that's another topic.

But I never bought in > 850 AAs any AA I did not know what it (supposedly) did ahead of time. Of course I also planned a few hundred AAs ahead, too.

And not stacking does sort of kill an fraction of usefulness, yes.

Even though I have not played for 8 months (18 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes) I had read about "disposable AA"s. But, see above re: research. So, I also believe that SOE failed to communicate to you (the paying customer) what was going on. But.. like that's news?

[Drazzminius]

Better than the AA, here's a 700 HP Ammo Slot for ya.

Orb of Duskmold (http://www.necrotalk.com/index.php?showtopic=7160)

[Sarnath Creed]

I only have about 133 aa's myself, but 2 play sessions ago i only had 121. I got 8 aa's in one night at 90% to aa. Its not like they are hard to get anymore when you get 15% per kill or more solo.

[Nizerns]

I know that sucks man, but its only 3 aa's.

Probaly at worst 1 nights worth of work with the doubler.

I know your upset, but honestly, it isn't worth it...

remember it was only 3 aa's.

PS. It was in the patch notes, and also one of the selling points for maxxed aa people.

They wanted to make it so that when you hit the cap, you had a reason to continue to xp.

[Xelgadis]

Let's see here...

It flat out says in the description "EXPENDABLE", which the majority agrees is pretty self-explanitory and shouldn't need a page devoted to its description in the e-manual. It was bad enough that they had to change "NO DROP" to "NO TRADE" and "NO RENT" to "TEMPORARY", don't make them have to change "EXPENDABLE" to "YO, DIS SHIT POOFS AFTER USIN' IT, DUMBASS", the game just wouldn't be the same.

In case there's still some question as to what "EXPENDABLE" means, let's ask my friend, Mr. Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com):

Originally posted by Dictionary.com
ex‧pend‧a‧ble  /ɪkˈspɛndəbəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ik-spen-duh-buhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. capable of being expended.
2. (of an item of equipment or supply) consumed in use or not reusable.
3. considered to be not worth keeping or maintaining.
4. Military. (of personnel, equipment, or supplies) capable of being sacrificed in order to accomplish a military objective.

Beyond the fact that it flat out says it's "EXPENDABLE", it also states that there is ONE charge in the description. What exactly is so difficult to understand about all of this? My 12 year old cousin is quite capable of grasping the concept at hand here, why couldn't you?

-------------------------------------------------------

No there isn't a problem with "EXPENDABLE" AAs, they work exactly as they state.

No, you don't need a refund, the GM acted correctly in this circumstance. Ignorance is bliss, not an excuse.

The GM was probably laughing at you as he was typing out the refusal to refund those 3 AA points. I certainly was as I read this thread, and I am right now as I'm typing this post.

It's 3 AA points. In the time you've spent humoring us all in this thread, you could have easily earned those 3 AA back, and quite a few more. You're a Necromancer, for fuck sake, start acting like one.

-------------------------------------------------------

Here's some parting advice, since apparently the blatantly obvious isn't so for you: Reading comprehension is your friend.

[Brahman]

it was in the patch notes, its on the AA discription how much more "advertisement" do they fucking need to do?

way to be a whiney bitch about it on 2 boards.

[Aegrusnecrox]

It's this simple: you fucked up because you didn't read exactly what was written, and you didn't do your homework.

Expendable AA's were on the description of the expansion, they were thoroughly explained on the boards and in the patch notes.

You didn't read any of those, so too bad for you.

You lost 3 AA's, plain and simple. If you want to quit EQ about it, be my guest, you will NOT be missed.

Good day to you, sir.

-Egg

[Mamael]

I really appreciate all the instant dumps on my "ignorance" about EXPENDABLE AAs :P

I just did a little checking about the availability of info on this topic:

1. There is no discussion of EXPENDABLE AAs on either this board or on eqnecro, except for my posting.

2. There is no mention of EXPENDABLE AAs in any of the patch notes, on either of these boards or on the EQLive board.

3. The description of the AAs in-game is ambiguous: Type Activated, Refresh Time 10 minutes. EXPENDABLE 1 charge.

It's easy to misinterpret this description to mean you can only cast it at most once every 10 minutes. With no warning that it costs 3 AA per use, it seemed like a useful AA. Given that spell scrolls also say EXPENDABLE 1 charge, and that they poof when you mem them, but the ability does not poof, and it has a recast time; and that other AAs have a refresh time that limits how fast you can re-use them; and that this was a new expansion with significant changes to AAs; and no in-game information was available beyond the description ... it seemed reasonable to try the AA. EXPENDABLE may have referred to a change in the way TSS AAs are trained ... no info available to contadict that.

As it turned out, buying that AA was a mistake -- and I was pissed that the descripton seemed misleading, and that the AAs I spent were accumulated from three days of camping gnolls for the Torn Page drops for the Mana Preservation VI aug. I envy your ability to just knock off 10 minute AAs, but my necro is gimp (no 69,70 spells except for Grave Pact, no raid gear, just bazaar stuff and whatever I've been able to quest) Under optimal conditions, I make about an AA an hour, (30 minutes with Lesson) and had 88 of 'em. So AAs mean a little more to me than they do to you. And at the time, I thought I might also be performing a service to the necro community by posting a warning about these AAs.

If you all knew about it, it was likely because you had beta info, or you regularly read the Veteran's board on EQLive. I found one thread on that topic, starting 9/15 and it seems to me that they didn't think very highly of these AAs either. I don't think one thread on EqLive several days before launch constitutes publicizing the properties of the AA. I got burned taking a chance, and I'll have to live with that, but doesn't make it any more palatable.

I still think ths SOE could have / should have handled the issue better. It should have been described in the patch notes, and it should have been described in the in-game AA description as "Must be repurchased for reuse.", and they should have refunded my AAs.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Type Activated, Refresh Time 10 minutes. EXPENDABLE 1 charge.honestly, I am not sure how this is ambiguous to anyone that has played the game long enough to purchase the aa. Not a dig towards you, I just think that it is pretty obvious.

The word "expendable" could be a bit ambiguous, but the "1 charge" is pretty straightforward, especially when combined to make "EXPENDABLE 1 charge".

[Darkeeyes]

[QUOTE]I envy your ability to just knock off 10 minute AAs, but my necro is gimp (no 69,70 spells except for Grave Pact, no raid gear, just bazaar stuff and whatever I've been able to quest)

I was the same way until I decided to actually use the (GREAT GUIDE) That the gnome put forth here on soloing the 69 - 70 runes in MPG. I also have no raid gear all Bazzar or quested and no DoDh spells. Still (EXPENDABLE 1 charge) is just too self explanitory. Now my real point here is you stated you only have 88 AA's which is all well and good but to spend your hard earned AA's on that even if it was not (EXPENDABLE 1 charge) is in (My Opinion) extremely STUPID as you get way more bang for your buck with crit lines etc. which will allow you to kill faster and earn AA's quicker.

Well Enough of my Opinions


Darkeeyes Whitelies

[Mamael]

Thanks for the great guide GnekroGnomicon. I plan to use it ASAP. And Gratz on your Epic!!! Nice endorsement Darkeyes ... I mostly followed eqnecro boards, and only very recently started reading this site. Eqnecro had a topic about soloing 69,70 runes that said it couldn't be done...

And I agree highest priority AAs are for crit affliction. But having the equivalent of a 10 minute Temp + Brilliance self buff, with a refresh of 10 minutes, was irresistable ... especially after you've died a few times when just a few hundred more hp would have made the difference. That summon / rezz / return-to-camp cycle kinda eats into your AAXPing effiiciency -- and buying the AA that I thought I was buying could have had a considerably bigger effect than buying Improved Crit Affliction(2) for 6 AA! That seemed like a good move at the time, tho ymmv.

[Brahman]

actually as i recall the posts on eqnecro say they are so rare in the places they are easily soloed (this would include MPG) that its VERY doubtful if trying to solo them is the best way.

5% drop rate in MPG if you need say 7 spells thats 140ish NAMED mobs, not even considering the PHers, that you are gonna have to kill. Unless the drop rate in MPG has been turned way up on 70 spells?

[GnekroeGnomicon]

5% drop rate in MPG if you need say 7 spells thats 140ish NAMED mobs, not even considering the PHers, that you are gonna have to kill. Unless the drop rate in MPG has been turned way up on 70 spells? I had far, far better of a drop rate than 5%. As always with the RNG you are going to get good streaks and bad streaks. The important thing though is that you *can* do it on your own, and you *will* get your spells eventually.

However, with the levels increased to 75, the need to get those 69-70 no drop is much reduced. Especially, with research meaning the 1 or 2 really neat spells are can be found elsewhere.

[Mordred]

Originally posted by GnekroeGnomicon@Oct 23 2006, 09:20 AM
5% drop rate in MPG if you need say 7 spells thats 140ish NAMED mobs, not even considering the PHers, that you are gonna have to kill. Unless the drop rate in MPG has been turned way up on 70 spells? I had far, far better of a drop rate than 5%. As always with the RNG you are going to get good streaks and bad streaks. The important thing though is that you *can* do it on your own, and you *will* get your spells eventually.

However, with the levels increased to 75, the need to get those 69-70 no drop is much reduced. Especially, with research meaning the 1 or 2 really neat spells are can be found elsewhere.
I boxed all the glowing for all my chars in MPG. Each char took about 10-12hours to fill out on glowings.

Basically saw about 14-15glowings over 30hours played time total roughly.


As to the expendable AA's got to agree with everybody else it's self explanatory. And if you werent' sure you should of made a post and asked.

Lots of people have done this but then its just more reason to show how stupid our society has gotten.

[Rdarkwill]

Originally posted by Mordred@Oct 25 2006, 01:05 PM
how stupid our society has gotten.
QFT

I'm not just picking on the OP here, but it seems like the general population is getting progressively less intelligent and more lazy with each passing generation.
It seems like people would rather have things done for them, than actually take the time to learn how to do it themselves, and when a mistake is made the blame goes everywhere except where it belongs. Suck it up, learn the lesson, and move on. Not everything in life moves things in a positive direction, but if ya learn from things it isn't a total loss. Socieity has a serious lack of self responsibility and work ethic (furthered by our current rolemodels and pop icons) which is only gonna get worse as generations pass.

The positive side to this is that it can only go on for so long before we breed ourselves into oblivion and another species takes our place.

wow...ok, that seemed to type itself... gonna stop now before I come across as a total psycho (i know, i know... too late) =P

/rant off
/de-rail off

[flishtaco]

I fucked up and did the same thing. The funny part is that I fucked up on my alt paladin and did get back the AA I spent on it there. But only because I /bugged , screenshotted, /reported it etc. Basically the reason I got my AA back on him was that I being a major dumbass got not only 1 but 2 of these expendable AA and I could show them proof that when I clicked it that a) nothing happened and B) clicking the 1 erased both of them with no benifit at all.

Oh but wait I am not just that stupid I prior to this and not carefully reading the AA description bought 1 of these on my necro. I didnt use it and petitioned based on the information on my paladin and got no where with a different GM who didnt understand english well and didnt believe me til I finally got his ass to look up my other account. (FV to have alts need 2 accounts+) He then agreed ok your right it doesnt work I will give it back to you since you havent used it. He then made me log and gave me back 1 aa and closed my petition. Anyway I had petitioned like 4 times on it and talked to him for about 30 minutes before he finally listened to me long enough to check my other account. I thought ok you didnt read it carefully and its only 2 more AA difference and a shitload of work, piss on it I can get those back in an hour and will just chalk this up to lesson learned.

Yes I made sure everyone I know knew these AA were expendable and buggy but most of them werent anywhere near far enough along to have thought hmm that sounds really good I have all of the old non TSS AA why not try this new fangled AA here and see how it works.

I am fully aware I am a dumbass and didnt read it carefully enough, I got saved by a bug. Moral is indeed if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.