Mob behavior change? PLing 35+

[GnekroeGnomicon]

In a round of PLing my wizard alts, I have been noticing a drastic (and annoying change) in mob behavior when I moved from Gunthak to CoM. I experienced this when I PLed my cleric a while ago as well but I just thought I would look for an explanation.

In Gunthak, I could round up 10-15 mobs with Gnek, bring them to my wizards. Let the mobs pound on Gnek (with DS). Wizards would each aoe 2x or so, sit down and med. Not once did I have a mob decide it was time to eat the Wizards for lunch (unless I chain AoE'd :P). I started doing this in Gunthak at lvl 28. Mobs on the beach very red to my wizards at that time.

In CoM (wizards now 35), I pick the two entrance mobs (always conservative to start) bring them back to the zone line where my wizards are sitting. Let them beat on Gnek (again with DS) for a while. 1 wizard AoE's for (gasp! 5 damage!) and teh mobs immediately chase the wizard out of the zone. I try it agian. Same result. Did this enough to get really frustrated. I was actually ending up rooting the mobs with Gnek to make sure they didn't chase the Wizards but that is a pain in the ass, as the mobs have a lot of life and keeping multiple mobs rooted for a long period of time just isn't that much fun (for PLing) :P

What is the change here? I haven't taken the wizards to another zone to see if it is just a CoM thing. Or if it is a change in mob intelligence at the mid 30's range. Or something entirely different.

I remember having this happen with my cleric as well. I can't remember if I just ground out a level or two more and they stopped this behavior or not though. That is an easy solution, but I would like to understand why this behavior is different.

[Rijak]

Last in zone aggro maybe?

Try it again, but intentionally zone gnek in last and see if that helps.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Does that principle even matter when they are not grouped? Interesting thing to explore.

[Lazarius]

Originally posted by Rijak@Nov 6 2006, 02:04 PM
Last in zone aggro maybe?

Try it again, but intentionally zone gnek in last and see if that helps.
"Last in zone aggro"? This is the first I've heard of that. Is there any truth to it? I just can't imagine, from a programming standpoint, why that would be a factor, unless they simply used it as an arbitrary means of assigning aggro where no hate exists. I would think the source of DS damage would be the more logical choice, though. /shrug

[GnekroeGnomicon]

"Last in zone aggro"? This is the first I've heard of that. Is there any truth to it? I just can't imagine, from a programming standpoint, why that would be a factor, unless they simply used it as an arbitrary means of assigning aggro where no hate exists.I have never observed it in a 'normal' zone, but it happens quite frequently in instances/missions/tasks. I would think it is unlikely as well, but I will have to do a test tonight to disprove the theory.

I would think the source of DS damage would be the more logical choice, though. /shrugThe DS is not being applied any differently than I was previously using in Gunthak.

1. Cast Self-DS (12 points)
2. Drink Potion (35 points)
3. Any DS gear (upto 15 points, right now I am using 6 for my pling)

It is a little low for ds pulling now, I might think of adding in a larger druid DS but I am not sure it is worth the effort or not as the mobs still die fast.

All of this is applied before the pull, which means the damage isn't attributed to any character and thus the Wizards get the xp as long as they do 1 pt of damage to each of the mobs. Interestingly, I can drink a DS potion midpull and the damage still isn't attributed to Gnek, though I am pretty sure the self ds if cast mid-pull is.

But even if the damage (hate) was being attributed to the source of the DS it would go on Gnek rather than the Wizards that don't have anything to do with the DS process.

[Rijak]

Originally posted by Lazarius+Nov 6 2006, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lazarius @ Nov 6 2006, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Rijak@Nov 6 2006, 02:04 PM
Last in zone aggro maybe?

Try it again, but intentionally zone gnek in last and see if that helps.
"Last in zone aggro"? This is the first I've heard of that. Is there any truth to it? I just can't imagine, from a programming standpoint, why that would be a factor, unless they simply used it as an arbitrary means of assigning aggro where no hate exists. I would think the source of DS damage would be the more logical choice, though. /shrug[/b][/quote]
It does exist for the very reason you mentioned, a default aggro assignment.

You can test it by having an FDer and two others. If the FDer pulls and FDs in front of the other two and they do nothing to gain aggro other than being there, the mob will always aggro the last one to zone in.

That said, I doubt it is gnek's issue, but it's worth a shot.

[Filter]

Its the lvl of intelligence coding now. I know that when I went from where ever it was to lguk on my Druid many moons ago that it did the same thing. That seems about right on the lvls Gnek. What really works will is using a bard or SK to pl toons to 50 or more with the ds trick. They can ae agro with out any dmg output. I think you are screwed from here on out.

Filter

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I think you are screwed from here on out.I am pretty sure after a few more levels I didn't have this agro switching issue when I did the same thing with my cleric. Which still could be just an con issue (ie. mobs are smart enough to go after lower conning players over a ds), hehe, more than it being just a PITA, I want to understand it :P

[shraklor]

just have necro cast a self rune or 2, should keep aggro after that. can also pull with ceramic band and make wizards do 11 damage.
can also use soul orb to heal aggroed wizard hence giving necro aggro again. debuffs work as well, undead can be slowed...lots of ways to generate hate without damage. just no taunt button

[Filter]

Can't help with understanding it Gnek but try sit agro too? Might hurt you a bit more but I would guess it wouldn't be an issue for you.

[Marpedod]

I would try maybe making one of the mobs your sacrificial lamb for a Life Tap...the heal from this should do enough agro vs. the rest of the mobs beating on you to counter the AE agro. The DS itself, although doing alot of damage, is doing nothing to keep agro from someone else. Another thing, are you holding your epic? Might want to change out for something that doesn't reduce hate when you are PLing...ooh, I just remembered...you have that PBAE that only reduces strength, wave of enfeeblement. I would fire that off a couple times before unleashing the wizzy.

As far as the medding...buy some horses/drogmars for the PLees...sitting is ALWAYS a bad idea when dealing with that many mobs, cause you won't be able to recover in time to regain agro after they bum rush your babies

[Todwelt]

Originally posted by Marpedod@Nov 8 2006, 11:01 AM
Another thing, are you holding your epic? Might want to change out for something that doesn't reduce hate when you are PLing...ooh, I just remembered...you have that PBAE that only reduces strength, wave of enfeeblement. I would fire that off a couple times before unleashing the wizzy.
Off topic I know ....

Our epic reduces hate generated? Thought it only had the DoT crit modifier?

I like the idea of using Surge of Enfeeblement to get and possibly hold agro from the baby wizzies.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I would try maybe making one of the mobs your sacrificial lamb for a Life Tap...the heal from this should do enough agro vs. the rest of the mobs beating on you to counter the AE agro. This sounds like a good plan of attack. That hopefully will generate all the agro needed to get the wizards a few ae's off enough to damage every other mob.

The DS itself, although doing alot of damage, is doing nothing to keep agro from someone else.Up till this point it was no problem though. Previous to CoM the DS appears to have generated agro because it was very difficult to pull the mobs off Gnek.

Another thing, are you holding your epic? Might want to change out for something that doesn't reduce hate when you are PLing...No. I don't hold the epic as I don't want to actually damage teh mobs on incoming... so I am a pugilist when I pull :) But I thought that component of the epic was removed long ago - I don't remember for sure though.

ooh, I just remembered...you have that PBAE that only reduces strength, wave of enfeeblement. I would fire that off a couple times before unleashing the wizzy.This is also a good option I suppose for agro generation.

As far as the medding...buy some horses/drogmars for the PLees...sitting is ALWAYS a bad idea when dealing with that many mobs, cause you won't be able to recover in time to regain agro after they bum rush your babies This goes without saying. The mobs rush my wizards the moment they let off their first AE (really low damage). The wizards don't even get the opportunity to sit :P

[Marpedod]

My appologies, my druid has his epic, and my necro doesn't, so if I made a bad assumption about that I am sorry.

So, while I am not an expert on the necro class, I've done my fair share of PLage /wink Uaedaan hehe