AA feed back part 2.

[Jebasiz]

Here's what he's looking for:

1. Which existing AA lines do your constituents feel are “core” AA lines that should be extended the next time we do an AA release?
2. Which existing AA lines are considered “worthless” or “not worth it” or otherwise undesirable? Why?
3. Which areas of your character or playstyle could be positively impacted by new AA abilities or mechanics? What types of abilities and mechanics would you like to see?
4. Finally I’m looking for creative ideas for the expendable AAs. If you or anyone you speak to have any ideas for expendables that would be attractive to our friends who are at or near the max AA cap I would love to hear them.


To some extent we've discussed number 1 and 2. Please focus on number 3 and 4 in this thread.

If you want to further discuss 1 and 2..please start a new thread. I've linked the old one to nodyin.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Jebasiz+Jan 22 2007, 09:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jebasiz @ Jan 22 2007, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>3. Which areas of your character or playstyle could be positively impacted by new AA abilities or mechanics? What types of abilities and mechanics would you like to see?[/b]

Core lines would help with dps/mana pres a bit, Death Peace could use some loving.
9 through 12 are very necro-ish things. Transfering life or mana or converting it from something.

1) Continue the DoT crit and lifetap heal crit lines
2) An aa to reduce our FD aa recast timer and cast time would be nice
3) An instant FD. It would of course come with a long recast as a penalty, 5min+
4) An aa that lets spells become less resistable, preferably over a 10min or longer period if triggerable. I'd rather not have it though if it ever becomes a consideration in mob resists, which are too high as is.
5) An aa to add more duration to 24sec+ detrimental effects we cast. 30 AA for an additional 2 ticks/dot would be nice if passive and not triggered and stacked with worn foci! (I really really want this) If triggerable (passive > triggerable!) I'd like it to last for 20min, add 3 or more ticks, and have a 40 min recast timer.
6) AA's to increase damage randomly from 0 to 5% along various resists stacking with worn/buff would be nice
7) AA's to increase the duration of buffs
8) AA that forces WTD/AOTD line of pets to /shield me the instant I take damage from a mob
9) Triggerable AA that heals us (or our target?) for some % (5?) of damage dealt by our dot's/dd's. (targetable?)
10) Tribggerable AA that gives us mana (or our target?) at a % (2?) of damage dealt by our melee or detrimental spells. (targetable?)
11) Tribggerable AA that gives us mana (or our target?) at a % (5?) of damage we take by melee or detrimental spell. (targetable?)
12) An AA that costs 2/3 of our hp and mana, and gives our pet +20k hp and a significant (15x) DPS boost for 10 ticks. Make sure it properly enrages at 10% and the buff isn't dispellable.
13) An AA that temporarily makes all DoTs we cast PB AE's.
14) A passive AA that alters worn foci's random rolls from 0%-X% to 5%-X%, upping the average foci effect by 2.5%. More ranks of that would be hot. Have fun coding that though.
15) lifeburn crit aa, high % chance, 50% or 75%. Or 100% but have it cost a lot.
16) A triggerable AA that changed all spell cast and recast timer of beneficial and detrimentals to 0sec, with the exception of invulnerability and dd's. A duration of 20 min would be nice. This would allow fast stacking of DoTs, but we'd still be limited in DPS by the dot's duration. It would also give us at least a temporary instant-fd should we chose to load the spell. Removing invulnerability prevents permanent invuln (or however long the aa lasts), and removing dd's prevents insane damage on non-summoning mobs.

<!--QuoteBegin-Jebasiz@Jan 22 2007, 09:57 PM
4. Finally I’m looking for creative ideas for the expendable AAs. If you or anyone you speak to have any ideas for expendables that would be attractive to our friends who are at or near the max AA cap I would love to hear them.[/quote]

1) Overlich, +25ft stacks with lich/other buffs/clickies etc.
2) +20% mana pres that stacks with worn/aa mana pres
3) something that lets you have a chance at resisting unresistable spells in additiona to normally resistable spells

[Quezquotyl]

Which areas of your character or playstyle could be positively impacted by new AA abilities or mechanics? What types of abilities and mechanics would you like to see?


Our lich line is pretty core to our class. However while other classes can cross zone lines with their mana enhancment spells, Necros find themselves recasting the spell every time we zone. Futhermore we find ourselves recasting this spell every hour.

Since our lich has an illusion component, abilities rogues get gave me an idea. Those abilites were that of keeping an illusion across zone lines, as well as an ability to keep said illusion for an extended period of time. Since similar code is already live, it might be easier for the devs to implement something similar for our class.

Can we request two abilities of a similar nature in reference to our lich spell? That is one to keep it across zone lines, and another to extend it's period of time.

[Jebasiz]

General Abilities
Innate Strength Useless
Innate Stamina Useless
Innate Agility Useless
Innate Dexterity Useless
Innate Intelligence Useless
Innate Wisdom Useless
Innate Charisma Useless
Innate Fire Protection Good
Innate Cold Protection Good
Innate Magic Protection Good
Innate Poison Protection Good
Innate Disease Protection Good
First Aid Useless
Innate Run Speed Good
Innate Lung Capacity Good
Innate Metabolism Good
Innate Regeneration Good
New Tanaan Crafting Mastery Fun

Archetype Abilities
Mental Clarity Good
Spell Casting Deftness Good
Spell Casting Expertise Good
Spell Casting Fury Good
Spell Casting Mastery Good
Spell Casting Subtlety Useless
Combat Agility Good
Combat Stability Good
Natural Durability Good
Jewel Crafting Mastery Fun

Class Specific Abilities
Pet Discipline Good
Innate Invis to Undead Good
Mass Group Buff Good
Mend Companion Good
Call to Corpse Good
Dead Mesmerization Useless/antiquated
Fearstorm Useless
Flesh to Bone Good
Life Burn Fun, but antiquated. This AA IMO should be made current again and scale with content as Mana burn has.
Dire Charm Was fun when it worked in current content

PoP Advance
Advanced Innate Strength Useless
Advanced Innate Stamina Useless
Advanced Innate Agility Useless
Advanced Innate Dexterity Useless
Advanced Innate Intelligence useless
Advanced Innate Wisdom Useless
Advanced Innate Charisma Useless
Warding of Solusek Good
Blessing of E'ci Good
Marr's Protection Good
Shroud of The Faceless Good
Bertoxxulous' Gift Good
Planar Power Good
Innate Enlightenment Good

PoP Abilities
Feigned Minion Good
Fury of Magic Good
Hastened Mending Good
Innate Defense Good
Lightning Reflexes Good
Mastery of the Past Good
Suspended Minion Good
Theft of Life Good(extension of this line would be very important)
Wake the Dead Good(this is WTD)

GoD Abilities
Swift Journey Good(more movement increasing aa's please)
Convalescence Good
Lasting Breath Good
Packrat Useless
Secondary Forte Good(being able to improve on this would be welcomed)
Persistent Casting Good
Critical Affliction Good(core aa ability..there isn't an expansion that launches that necros don't look for more of this line)
Fury of Magic Mastery Good
Pet Affinity Good(this has room for improvement that I'll note at the end of this list)
Death's Fury Good
Quickening of Death Good
Advanced Theft of Life Good
Swarm of Decay moderately usefull. A higher attack rate combined with more durability would be very nice to see.

Omens Abilities
Reflexive Mastery Good
Defensive Instincts Good
Death Peace Good(an instant version of this aa would be great. Also a way to drop agro faster then 2 mins would be hugely beneficial, I'll note why at the end of this list)
Discordant Defiance Good
Mystical Attuning Good
Delay Death Useless
Healthy Aura Good
Mnemonic Retention Good
Expansive Mind Good
Improved Critical Affliction Good(core ability that should be extended IMO)
Persistent Minion Good
Advanced Pet Discipline Useless(I haven't used /pet focus much)
Soul Thief Good
Eternal Breath Good
Blacksmithing Mastery Fun
Baking Mastery Fun
Brewing Mastery Fun
Fletching Mastery Fun
Pottery Mastery Fun
Tailoring Mastery Fun
Salvage Fun
Origin Good
Chaotic Potential Good
Arcane Tongues Fun
Replenish Companion Good
Army of the Dead Good(I'll note popular suggestions for changes to this at the end of the list)
Destructive Fury Good (should extend to dot crits)

Depths Abilities
Innate See Invis Fun
Prolonged Mortality Fun
Precognition Good
Thick Skin Good
Silent Casting "OK"
Bandage Wounds Useless
Gift of Mana Good
Blood Magic Good(perhaps further levels could reduce how much health spells use to cast)
Graverobbing Good
Affliction Mastery Good
Cloak of Shadows Good
Willful Death Good(The best aa in DODH once it worked right)

TSS Abilities
Energetic Attunement Good
Potential of Serpent Spine Good
Deaths Door Fun
Combat Medic Useless
Fast Healing Good
Quick Draw Good
Battle Ready Good
Glyph of Dragon Scales Useless
Glyph of Arcane Secrets Useless
Glyph of Draconic Potential Useless
Glyph of Destruction Useless
Labyrinthine Mind Good
Volatile Mana Good
Mana Fury Good
Blood Tithe Good
Sleight of Hand Useless
Gift of Radiant Mana Good
Death Mask Fun
Soul Seeker -hugely disappointing..10mins per rank is about nothing.
Zombie Outbreak Good(similar to army of the dead, I'll discuss changes at the end of the list)
Greater Blood Tithe Good(excellent core ability that should be extended)
Gathering Dusk Good(tons of room for improvement)
Siphon Soul Good
Deaths Wrath Good
Mental Serenity Good

Ok..that's the good, bad and ugly. Here are my personal thoughts on where AA should go from where we at.

Improve/extend:
Lifeburn- This is the single most requested AA for change over the last 2 years or so. My suggestion is a ranked AA, where each rank take more health and does 4x the damage of health used. IE. Rank one- take 4000 health and do 16000dmg. Rank 2 8000 health, 32k dmg, rank 3, 12000 health for 48k damage. It may need to scale differently..but that was the most widely supported change that has been brought up.

Dead mesmerization- was never "powerfull" but it did have it's uses(especially while solo'ing or grouping). Level capping below 77 would make it about useless (today)..I can only imagine that it will only become more useless as time goes on. The main problem I see with this ability is that it's either incredibly useless or incredibly powerfull. I really don't have a suggestion for you here, except to say that necromancers should have an AA that can mez multple undead at one time in current group content.

Swift Journey - at some point in our careers as necromancers we are asked to "pull" or seperate mobs for raids or groups. I've done it very frequently in the grouping scenario, and in raids (oddly enough, when our monks just couldn't do it..IE Uqua and Plane of water). It'd be very nice to see a movement increase ability to aid in this facet of our character.

Secondary forte- this lets us increase our specialization in a 2nd spell casting ability. Most necros are primary spec'd in alteration and secondary spec'd in conjuration. Due to our recent spell additions I really can't emphasize how important ANY aa that saves or gives us more mana and how absolutely integral they are to our class and how we function. Seeing this extended, wouldn't help "a ton" but it would be a nice small addition.

Pet Affinity - An area that could hugely improve the usefullness and survivability of our pets. Call it Greater Pet affinity or whatever you'd like, but an extension of this ability that'd allow our pets to take advantage of our worn mods would be an absolutely huge improvement. Shielding, dot shielding, spell shielding, haste, improved dodge, parry, avoidance, strikethrough, attack etc. Necros can't summon gear for our pets, so often they're left going into raid content without it. This would offset that loss of mitigation/survivability and allow for pets to be on raids more often.

Death peace - I love this AA. If we could get another AA along this line that lets us fd instantly and clear agro faster(even with a 5 minute refresh) that'd be very beneficial when we're asked to pull. Most of the time mobs walk back to their spawn point and we can seperate them..sometimes they corpse camp and that leaves us unable to stand without agro'ing them all over again. Being able to clear agro in less then 2 minuts(around 30 seconds, if instant isn't available).

Army of the Dead - This wakes upto 5 corpses and has them mindlessly attack our target until either they or the target is dead(for up to one minute, then they disappear). If the target dies before the mob(in under a minute) and we're hit by a spell or take melee damage then they'll attack whatever damaged us until their one minute is up. This AA does NEED a DPS upgrade, that is IMO without question the biggest fix for this AA. There is another *problem* with this AA. It's a source of amusement for me and other necros, but melee HATE this ability. Large model NPC's dead en masse make a veritable wall when summoned by necromancers to attack. The "XI" mobs in Umbral Planes (Doomshade, but smaller) has been suggested as a generic model that these "pets" can take. Not requiring corpses present, and just summoning 5 "XI model pets" to attack for one minute...hopefully at an increased attack rate doing significantly more dps.

Blood Magic - It's a very good AA, although it does "hurt". The bloodmagic effect has a tendancy to double up, making a single dot take 5000-7000hps to cast once. If more levels or an extension can be added that'd lower the cost (of health) for each cast, it'd be more widely used, and much more beneficial. The concept is indeed awesome though, we just need it to be more practical.

Soul Seeker - should've increased lifeburn damage. This AA decreased lifeburn's recast by a total of 30mins. It's now down to 2 hours..which is still incredibly long for people to do anywhere between 8-17k damage(typical lifeburn damage for necros). If this is going to stay as solely a decrease in cast time it should be re-evaluated and scaled so that we can lifeburn once an hour.

Zombie Outbreak - this is the follow along to army of the dead. Same changes apply..I just think it should be done at the level of Army of the Dead..Zombie Outbreak should increase their durability and offensive capabilities.

Greater blood Tithe- This AA along with general Dot critical % increasing AA's should be extended at every AA increasing expansion. This is a critical/core AA, that is specific to solely necromancers. The general AA is the critical Affliction line that began with Gates of Discord. Both should see extensions. We are THE DoT/duration dps class of Everquest, our dominance(once restored, and this is part of that) in this area dictates that this area should expand, and so should our ability to have our dots crit more then any class. We asked for our own line of dot crit enchancement AA's for a long time, and it's something our community is united in. It should not be ignored in any future additional AA expansions.

Gathering Dusk..has stacking issues with SK's taps(hate and ac, I'm not sure of the name of them..I can ask brael and find out for you). Other then that, necros would like to see the damage being done and have it focused/crit. Along with doing more damage as more levels of this AA are added..


Alternate Abilities I wish we had:
An AA that made lich last longer and stay active across zone lines.
An AA that gives our lich the ability to return more mana. To balance us for tss it'd need to be a significant increase(as high as 30-40mana per tic).
An aa that's like the shaman cannibilization AA. A massive transfer of hps to mana.
An Aura like ability that lets us regenerate more mana, or have our dots do more damage.
An AA that returns a %(people have recommended 5%) of our damage as mana to us(could be an activated AA that would be a form of "burst mana regeration")
An AA that returns a %(again around 5%) of our damage to us as health(an activated aa would be fine)


Is the short version of what I've sent him so far. Please critique(constructively), and perhaps add things I should send him in future correspondence.

[Quezquotyl]

Under Omens "Delay Death Useless". However, you have later versions of the line "Death's Door" and "Prolonged Mortality" listed as "Fun". Were you asking for improvement on Delay Death, which is the prerequisit for the later or was it a clerical error?

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Quezquotyl@Jan 23 2007, 07:54 PM
Under Omens "Delay Death Useless". However, you have later versions of the line "Death's Door" and "Prolonged Mortality" listed as "Fun". Were you asking for improvement on Delay Death, which is the prerequisit for the later or was it a clerical error?
That was clerical..

[Vanlor]

I have a new aa suggestion:

Either:

Very low resist snare
or
Very low resist root also with increased duration

I have not been playing EQ for years as most seem to have. I think I have under 30 days played total time. I have 67 necro on Fennin Ro.

In my playing time I have noticed a few things. It is very common for me to play snarer in groups, and when fighting resistant mobs snaring can become very mana intensive and aggro dangerous. Of course you can FD b/w snare attempts, but once again = more mana.

Now I know we will never snare as well as druids, though we use it just as often, druids outclass us in this category by amounts not even laughable. For instance compare druid lvl 61 Mire Thorns (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=6733) with necro lvl 63 Embracing Darkness (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=3309). On quick glance, this is the first time either class gets a resist check for snare. Clearly in grouping and solo instances, I would prefer a chromatic -20 and 3.0 min duration over magic -20 and 2.0 min duration any day. Not too mention MT costing 125 mana less. I consider our dmg component on snare to be next to useless, yes I know that with aas it can become significant, but seriously, woudn't you rather be able to snare a mezzed mob? Also, we do have a better decreased movement rate. In group settings, this isn't going to help much if at all, we really just don't want the mob to run away, so we really just need snare to land.

I have tried to make this short, but it has turned out longer than planned lol. I basically suggest an aa snare with a much improved resist check, even at cost of movement rate, dmg, and duration. I just want to land the snare with minimal mana cost and be able to continue dpsing without a major interuption similar to a druid.

Notes on the root suggestion. This is a MUCH lower preference of mine compared to snare. Our class in general snares much more often than roots. However, many things would be easier with an aa root with a nice resist check and long duration. I believe that Shaman get something of the sort. This is most likely meant only for shaman, but still, it makes them able to solo some things a necro couldn't even consider and Necros are in general put at least a whole tier above shammies in solo ability.

This is all starting to sound like a 'this class can do this and we can't! no fair!' rant, and is not meant to, my sincere appologies.

[Meph]

TSS snare has a great resist mod i don't see the need for another snare.

few new aa ideas:

- Die Hard - the lower your hp the higher your DD and dot crit chance and possibly dmg.
- Pleasure of Pain - aa's that turns certan % of damage you take and turn it into mana
- turn undead type aa's with HUGE undead nuke/dot with 5-10 min reuse time.
- detrimental duration enhancing aa's
- lifeburn dmg enhancing aa's
- Destructive fury aa line for dots
- aa's that lower recast on fd and insta cast fd with a longer reuse than standard one.
- upgrade to call to corpse that allows you to summon yourself or anyone else cross zone



Will write more when i have the time.

[Aldmare]

Agree for the most part, on the degree of worthlessness of misc AAs mentioned above.

My random thoughts,

- FD - Some form of improvement whether its cast time or even the time it takes to clear aggro reduced.
- Increase lines of critical affliction, soul thief and destructive fury blah blah
- AA Harmshield (long recast timer)
- Improve Lifeburn enhancing AAs particularly damage output as mentioned above would suffice, or atleast scale up to current content.
- Swarm pet DPS enhancing AAs (not more pets)
- Swarm pet added durability
- Swap suspended minion AA - Would be nice to be able to swap out pets
- Corpse Explosion - plant a 'bomb' on nearby corpse, high damage nuke pbae fire/poison/magic lines (expendable AA idea)

[Zandramadass]

SoD should have reuse timer lowered as well as the previously mentioned increase in atk.

Not sure what you were refering to sk spell wise specifically because I havent grouped with any necs that used gather dusk Jeb but...

Challenge for power - ac tap including hate inducing
Terror of line is straight single target hate spell
Villify - PB AE hate spell

[Xelgadis]

Gathering Dusk:

Slot Description
1: Increase Hate by 1000
2: Improved Spell Effect(Duskfall)

Challenge for Power/Honor:

Slot Description
1: Increase Hate by 666
2: Increase Hate by 666

Slot 1 is what's causing the problem, and it's quite annoying to have my Challenge blocked by Gathering Dusk, not to mention that I'm out a significant amount of AC til Duskfall procs (paladins are out a vie recourse). Necros needing a hate dot is quite unnecessary, I could generate more than 3k (plus counter) hate in less time using 2 dots with Xelgadis. It used to be 500/tick or so on GD, but the idea that necros need a form of snap aggro (should come in handy against summoning 4k hitters I'd think) got it increased to 1k/tick.

Two things: 1) Necros really don't need a form of snap aggro, except perhaps in very rare circumstances, and even then it's of questionable use. Mostly it's an e-peen thing that a few necros have. 2) A dot that generates hate is about the last thing in my mind as something to be used for snap aggro.

[Zandramadass]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Jan 24 2007, 02:07 PM
Two things: 1) Necros really don't need a form of snap aggro, except perhaps in very rare circumstances, and even then it's of questionable use. Mostly it's an e-peen thing that a few necros have. 2) A dot that generates hate is about the last thing in my mind as something to be used for snap aggro.
QFT right there.

Challenge is a cool 200AC when cast for sk's so having a nec block that spell would really piss me off. Specially since if nec's have a problem with agro its usually having too much. If you cant steal agro almost at will in your group or raid you have: a). A tank who knows his shit. or B). A necro who doesnt.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Jan 24 2007, 07:07 PM
Two things: 1) Necros really don't need a form of snap aggro, except perhaps in very rare circumstances, and even then it's of questionable use. Mostly it's an e-peen thing that a few necros have. 2) A dot that generates hate is about the last thing in my mind as something to be used for snap aggro.
I agree, we didn't need any snap agro at all. Not because we already have it, but because it's just not something our class does. That said there are situations when it's useful. Like for getting the attention of adds that are beating on healers when tanks are otherwise busy. Granted that's a rare-ish kind of situational usage. I wouldn't use it on main targets if it was fuxoring normal mt agro.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Xislaben+Jan 24 2007, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Xislaben @ Jan 24 2007, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Xelgadis@Jan 24 2007, 07:07 PM
Two things: 1) Necros really don't need a form of snap aggro, except perhaps in very rare circumstances, and even then it's of questionable use. Mostly it's an e-peen thing that a few necros have. 2) A dot that generates hate is about the last thing in my mind as something to be used for snap aggro.
I agree, we didn't need any snap agro at all. Not because we already have it, but because it's just not something our class does. That said there are situations when it's useful. Like for getting the attention of adds that are beating on healers when tanks are otherwise busy. Granted that's a rare-ish kind of situational usage. [/b][/quote]
Only problem is; in current raid content, trash mobs hit hard enough to flatten most non-tanks (as well as tanks who overemphasize HP, and neglect AC) in 1-2 rounds, 3 if you're on a good avoidance streak). Several raid named can squish a silky in as little as 2 hits nowadays, adds on raid events can one round most non-tanks. Most important is that all of the above summon, so from the perspective of my past life (necro) trying to pull raid mobs off anyone will usually result in a very swift death. Grouping environment is somewhat different, but the roles have blurred somewhat, and even trash in high end group content can still flatten all but well geared players pretty quickly, if things start to turn sour.

This may sound like some major horror story, but it isn't. These mobs have very high DI, but only average DB. 2k'ish (min) hitting raid named has been common since Quarm, the difference you see usually is in the DI, DB hasn't changed a whole lot. Atk on raid named really hasn't changed a whole lot since PoP (with a few exceptions in Discord and on scripted events), raid trash is a slightly different story, but it's still quite manageable for intelligent tanks.

I wouldn't use it on main targets if it was fuxoring normal mt agro.
Honestly... if Gathering Dusk, alone, is enough to pull a mob off a tank, then the tank flat out sucks.

To put it into perspective: 1.5 seconds after an incoming mob has entered casting range for me, I've already generated 2691 hate (Terror of Vergalid Rk. III (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=10259&source=Live) + Gift of Draygun (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=8026&source=Live), latter of which is assumed to already be in my buff window). Melee alone would be enough after that to far more than make up the remaining 309 + whatever the counter hate is in 18 seconds. If I decide to immediately follow up with another Terror, then 5.25 seconds after I started casting Vergalid, I've now generated an additional 2070 hate from casting Terror of Discord (again with the Draygun buff already running). 5.25 seconds and I've generated at least 4761 hate (melee during gem refresh and other factors will likely increase that number). At that point Gathering Dusk has generated 1k + counter hate at most, depending on timing with server ticks. There isn't remotely a chance of Gathering Dusk (solely) pulling aggro off of a tank who uses even the slightest bit of common sense and tools available to them.

That said, the hate dot in Gathering Dusk is fine, I honestly don't care much about it nor do I remotely feel threatened by it. My problem is that it has stacking issues currently which are in need of being addressed.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Jan 25 2007, 06:15 AM
Only problem is; in current raid content, trash mobs hit hard enough to flatten most non-tanks
Not everybody is raiding end-game, if that's what you mean by 'current'. I tap tank trash a bit in demiplane periodically, or just otherwise agro mobs off guildies and run around until they get picked up on rare overpulls/healed puller etc or those extra fun orc gflux-though-walls trains. Mostly though it's just for fun and not cc. So while you're right in that it would probably be a bad idea to get trash's attention when it hits for 4k and gets 4 or 5 attacks, there's much content still being played in where it's viable in my opinion.

[Xelgadis]

Demi-Plane trash was never particularly bad (short of AEs, innates, etc.), even 5 levels ago. Short of some app, I really can't think of an Anguish+ geared caster who was one rounded, or even close to that. But comparing Demi-Plane (2, almost 3, expansion old content) to Ashengate/Frostcrypt raids is like comparing apples to oranges. You'd honestly have a far more accurate comparison replacing Demi-Plane with Razorthorn, but even then it's more the procs that are an issue and not so much the actual melee.

[Brahman]

3 expansion old or not, it is still pretty high end and all AAs are not made soley with the bleeding edge in mind.

[Xelgadis]

Semantics over what's current and what's not aside. My argument was simply that trash DI has increased significantly since Demi-Plane, back then it was still pretty low, DB on the other hand hasn't really changed a ton.

[Jebasiz]

Please debate things elsewhere. This is *meant* to be a feedback thread that I intend to have Nodyin view once there's enough information here. Giving him posts that don't give him the information he's looking for defeats the purpose of the thread.

Thanks for telling me what doesn't stack with Gathering dusk.
Meph, aldmare, et all thank you for your feedback.
Xis and Quez, I added some/most of what you suggested in my initial email..thank you as well.

Please continue on topic.

[Winmancer]

I don't know if this has been brought up and I might get slapped for even suggesting such an idea, but here it goes. I would love to have an AA progression for a non-component (no EEs) rez. Maybe they are just too engrained to get rid of, but I can wish. :ph34r:

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed+Jan 26 2007, 03:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Doc Hollidazed @ Jan 26 2007, 03:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think it would be cool to have an AA that causes an instant FD check when hp reaches 0 or less. This way the prolonged mortality AAs might serve a purpose.

I don't care for expendable AAs at all, and wish they would just stop with that idea.

I am also tired of AAs that have a natural sunset due to expansion inflation:

Lifeburn
Fearstorm
Mend Companion/Replenish Companion
Dead Mesmerization
Dire Charm
Wake the Dead/Army of the Dead/Zombie Outbreak
Swarm of Decay
Gift of Mana/Gift of Radiant Mana [/b]
I've talked to him about antiquation of abilities. I'm also trying to stress to him that our abilities can not function without upkeep through future expansions...IE nothing should go 4-5 years without being updated(like lifeburn has).

I don't know how much he can implement but I do know he's trying to improve on our AA's and I'm gratefull for that.

GoM and GORM I don't think have been allowed to reach that sunset since it was expanded. Replenishment companion crits for 14k with a reasonable refresh timer, I don't see this as something that's antiquated at this time. ZO is a TSS era AA. It's -not- everything I want it to be, but it has not stagnated either. Nothing lasts forever, and costing a few AA's to maintain an ability over an extended period of time isn't too much to ask IMO.

Lifeburn, fearstorm, dead mesmerization, dire charm, Swarm of Decay..I agree with you on. Fear is pretty much dead IMO. I don't really see a practical application(that they'd actually put in the game) for a new/current "fearstorm" type of AA, if you can, please tell me. The rest I've proposed ways and asked for them to be updated AND maintained better for following expansions.

Expendable AA's are for people who are basically AA capped. It's not something "for everyone". If you don't want to use them, that's your prerogative. As long as they are there, I'd like to see them benefit those of us that use them to the same extent as other people who play other classes(that use them).

<!--QuoteBegin-winmancer
I don't know if this has been brought up and I might get slapped for even suggesting such an idea, but here it goes. I would love to have an AA progression for a non-component (no EEs) rez. Maybe they are just too engrained to get rid of, but I can wish.[/quote]

That's a dangerous suggestion IMO..unless it has a long refresh timer. If we can rez without EE's..you can bet that's what we'd end up doing a lot of on raids. I look at EE's as something that lets us not be bothered with having to rez often, but still maintains our ability to rez when it's absolutely needed. Generation/acquisition methods not withstanding, I like not being asked to rez all night.

It's probably possible to find some middle ground here, playing with refresh timers or even making it an expendable AA..that or having the EE's have a click effect of ressurection on the gem itself, and eliminating us having to spend a spell gem on rez(and having a lockout timer of 60mins or something). There's probably a way, if there's interest in it, or if someone can suggest something good..I'll add it to my next E-mail.

[Winmancer]

You have some good points on the rez issue and I agree with you about not wanting to be asked for rezzes all the time. I do like having the ability in a pinch, but the EEs are so hard to come by or are expensive. The 60 minute timer or something like that might not be a bad idea. idk, just think out loud lol. Thanks for the feedback.

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Jan 26 2007, 03:34 PM
I think it would be cool to have an AA that causes an instant FD check when hp reaches 0 or less.
I was discussing a similar idea with a couple necros on Luclin a while back.

Since necros are the antithesis of clerics: Clerics get the Touch of the Divine AA (30 second DA with a HoT) that has a chance of firing upon reaching 0 hp (druids and shamans got something similar with a spell in TSS). Necros (built around dealing damange and surviving against the odds) should arguably receive somewhat of a similar ability, instead of a DA+HoT how about a chance for FD+HoT then?

If not a HoT, since it becomes pretty pointless should the FD be broken, then perhaps an instant heal instead (in upwards of 5k give/take), enough at least to get you out of blood aggro health with some buffer to spare. Maybe a percentage type heal would work better, as then the ability would scale with gear/content without stagnating. The code for percentage heals is already in the game, in one form or another, so there's nothing drastically new that has to be written for this. Ideally something like a 10-20k heal, but capped at 40% of your max HP would work, that way the ability would scale for several years without needing to see much attention for scalability.

Like TotD, the chance of firing would be pretty small (I think TotD fires in the realm of 10-20% of the time, when maxed, but I could be wrong there). It's more of a "chance to get out of death free card" rather than "get out of death free card", as necros already get that through FD and DA arguably.

------------------------------

Brief, yet semi-relevant, <derail>:

This way the prolonged mortality AAs might serve a purpose.
The only problem with that is the way the game handles reaching positive HP after being negative, it forces you to autostand (been plenty of times I've channeled FD at neg HP, only to die anyway when I autostood with mobs standing on top of me). The rationale behind it is fine, but the code unfortunately doesn't support it currently.

The code problem is something that needs to be addressed still. I'm sure the devs are aware, or have been made aware, of the problem, but perhaps additional prodding is needed to get the coders to look into it.

</derail>

[Aegrusnecrox]

I really like xelgadis's idea. Would be a good one to implement.

I would like that or just a straight up insta cast or faster cast FD, dont much care how it gets put in, I just want one.

Other than that, standard def & DPS AA's are fine with me.

An AA that makes Zombie Outbreak summon a shade per body that it cant find (i.e. if only 3 bodies were present, it would summon 2 shades along with the 3 corpses risen) would make the spell much more useful.

Also, a lifeburn enhancer would be nice. Allow it to crit, halve its recast, or increase its damage, dont much care.

Finally, and AA that would give us RS8 (like what bards & monks have) would be very nice.

-Egg

P.S. Just as a toy AA, a skeletal Horse like the ones in PoN would be great, I would love that.

[Aiyee]

As far as new AA goes I still would like a perma illusion AA like enchanter or bards so we can lich and stay liched without recasting on zone, port, evac etc.

And a 10th spell gem aa would also be nice.

Since we lost a huge edge in mana recovery with new lich line and rest mode, maybe a necro version of canni, something like a super self lich/tap, 25-30% mana back for a 30-50% hp drain on self...reusable every 15-20 min..dunno

Yes an AA rez would be nice, much like shaman or druid already have, non exp simply a call soul to corpse kind of thing.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Aiyee@Jan 28 2007, 02:37 AM
As far as new AA goes I still would like a perma illusion AA like enchanter or bards so we can lich and stay liched without recasting on zone, port, evac etc.

And a 10th spell gem aa would also be nice.

Since we lost a huge edge in mana recovery with new lich line and rest mode, maybe a necro version of canni, something like a super self lich/tap, 25-30% mana back for a 30-50% hp drain on self...reusable every 15-20 min..dunno

Yes an AA rez would be nice, much like shaman or druid already have, non exp simply a call soul to corpse kind of thing.
I haven't sent a 10th spell gem request, nor have I asked for another way to rez. The rest has been requested already.

[Xatrekak]

dont know if it has been suggested yet but i want an aa with 2 tiers with each one adding 1 tick to all of ours dots

[scrat]

I'd like an aa that when triggered, lasts one minute. Re-use of 5 minutes. Effect: doubles base damage of all long-term detrimental spells while halving their duration. Call it Boner or something appropriate.

I'd also like an aa that eliminates the need to have corpses in order to use wake the dead, army of the dead and zombie outbreak. I would like to use WTD now and then if only I could find 5 people that simultaneously wish to group and are able to leave a corpse lie and clutter up their screen and block the view of the mob currently pwning their tank and absorbing all the rangers arrows and blocking magician bolts and forcing the wizard to use F8 and make it difficult to target anything other than the giant corpse crotch-grinding the cleric at eye level and panic when I use the aa for that extra 20dps for one minute every 9 minutes. Punctuation intentionally withheld.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by scrat@Jan 29 2007, 10:09 AM
I'd like an aa that when triggered, lasts one minute. Re-use of 5 minutes. Effect: doubles base damage of all long-term detrimental spells while halving their duration. Call it Boner or something appropriate.

I'd also like an aa that eliminates the need to have corpses in order to use wake the dead, army of the dead and zombie outbreak. I would like to use WTD now and then if only I could find 5 people that simultaneously wish to group and are able to leave a corpse lie and clutter up their screen and block the view of the mob currently pwning their tank and absorbing all the rangers arrows and blocking magician bolts and forcing the wizard to use F8 and make it difficult to target anything other than the giant corpse crotch-grinding the cleric at eye level and panic when I use the aa for that extra 20dps for one minute every 9 minutes. Punctuation intentionally withheld.
The first one straight up, won't happen. I can send it to him, but it'll never get passed maddoc.

The corpless ZO et al..was in my email.

[scrat]

Heres a bunch more lame ideas-

Extension of Replenish Companion to include a 1, 2 and 4khp/tick heal over time lasting 4 ticks

Lifeburn addition to completely refill your mana

lifetap exceptional heals get chance to be a group heal

lifetap criticals get chance to return mana cost

New line of manatap nuke spells that mirror lifetaps.

Ability to force your group to share your pain, or /shield for 4/6/8kdmg like clerics shared health while the damage you should have taken is directly converted to mana

Ability to allow mindwrack to crit with same percentage of our normal DoTs

Remove curse AA.

Soul/Shadow orbs created with a critical blast to create exceptional soul/shadow orbs containing twice the normal heal capacity.

Targetable buff adding lifetap proc or DoT/HoT proc

Pet lich - buff on pets that puts them into -100hp/tick regen while giving us +20mana/tick return. Similar to mages buff, but instead of a nuke make it a very long term DoT.

Group-targetable lich buff

Paladin slay undead proc for pets

Mana orbs - like soul/shadow orbs but yield mana instead of hp & requires caster mobs

Long re-use Instant and unbreakable FD that becomes available when health is below 30%

Ability that improves the success of both FD working and not breaking when hit with a spell the lower your HP percentage.

Ability to FD group members much like we can our pet.

Tracking ability for undead

Project illusion to self/group/pet - anything & everything undead

Imbue bone chips with 5 charges of instant-cast Dark Nightmare.

Imbue bone chips with 10 charges of instant-cast Soul Spike.

Pet buff that adds proc of Mind Wrack

pet buff that adds proc of Nights Beckon

Ability to summon a FD player as if they were a corpse

Ability to double the chance of GoM/GoRM firing off

Chance for any kill-shot from a nuke or DoT to return the mana cost of the spell that got the kill-shot.

Ability to have lich ticks crit, giving double mana return

Pet lifeburn. Same dmg/recourse as ours, but shorter re-use.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by scrat@Feb 1 2007, 08:32 PM
Heres a bunch more lame ideas-

Extension of Replenish Companion to include a 1, 2 and 4khp/tick heal over time lasting 4 ticks
Sometimes the direct heal is needed. Perhaps a 2nd pet heal aa on it's on timer would be cool.

Lifeburn addition to completely refill your mana
I've asked for lifeburn to be upgraded in the way of damage..I'm not really sure this would be practical to request atm.

lifetap exceptional heals get chance to be a group heal
I could see that..and it's interesting

lifetap criticals get chance to return mana cost
I don't see what lifetap returns have to do with mana regen

New line of manatap nuke spells that mirror lifetaps.
this is more of a spell thing, then AA..and it's likely we won't see anything that good

Ability to force your group to share your pain, or /shield for 4/6/8kdmg like clerics shared health while the damage you should have taken is directly converted to mana
Not sure what you mean here.

Ability to allow mindwrack to crit with same percentage of our normal DoTs

I'd like to see this.

Remove curse AA.
I guess it's worth a shot to ask for.

Soul/Shadow orbs created with a critical blast to create exceptional soul/shadow orbs containing twice the normal heal capacity. differentiating(keeping track of) would be a nightmare to code.

There is *something* coming along with orbs..I don't think they'll change in that reguard.

Targetable buff adding lifetap proc or DoT/HoT proc
This was suggested as an aura, It's not happening there..I'd be surprised if we got it as an aa. I could suggest it as a % chance of a spell proc..but I don't think they're willing to give us an aura/aura-like effect.

Pet lich - buff on pets that puts them into -100hp/tick regen while giving us +20mana/tick return. Similar to mages buff, but instead of a nuke make it a very long term DoT.
Personally, I'd like to have our lich balanced for our mana consumption, and I'm pretty persistent on this issue(as are people PM'ing and [telling me all day). Going outside of "lich" for mana balance is probably something we'd regret long term.

Group-targetable lich buff
Not sure I wanna get into buffs. It might be ok once in a while..but honestly that'd negate chanters C-line..and they're hurting enough atm. I don't see anything that'd make them worse "flying" atm.

Paladin slay undead proc for pets
It'd have to be a very dumbed down version to have any chance of happening.

Mana orbs - like soul/shadow orbs but yield mana instead of hp & requires caster mobs
A decent idea..not an aa though, and Prathun is not asking for feedback..

Long re-use Instant and unbreakable FD that becomes available when health is below 30%
There are other FD related aa's suggested. I'll probably make a poll once beta is over..and see which people prefer.

Ability that improves the success of both FD working and not breaking when hit with a spell the lower your HP percentage.
Kind of a willfull death upgrade..It'd be nice.

Ability to FD group members much like we can our pet.
I'd like to know how others feel about that before I suggest anything like that(buffs included)

Tracking ability for undead
Would make sense..it's highly unlikely.

Project illusion to self/group/pet - anything & everything undead
There aren't enough people walking around as skeletons?

Imbue bone chips with 5 charges of instant-cast Dark Nightmare. won't happen

Imbue bone chips with 10 charges of instant-cast Soul Spike.
won't happen
Pet buff that adds proc of Mind Wrack
won't happen
pet buff that adds proc of Nights Beckon
won't happen
Ability to summon a FD player as if they were a corpse
that'd be sweet..and probably a suggestion that I'll try and group with monks and sk's.
Ability to double the chance of GoM/GoRM firing off
I'm not sure how beneficial doubling a streaky 10% chance is going to be..unless it was for a decent duration, and then it'd be too good. I'll see what he thinks about that as time goes on.

Chance for any kill-shot from a nuke or DoT to return the mana cost of the spell that got the kill-shot. Doubtfull, killshot procs for us seem to not work to well.

Ability to have lich ticks crit, giving double mana return
That'd be sweet, and something I'll add.

Pet lifeburn. Same dmg/recourse as ours, but shorter re-use.
/boggle. It's different, I dunno if it's practical.

He'll be asking for feedback from me later this month. Some of what you have listed is kind of nice..

[Aiyee]

Group-targetable lich buff
Not sure I wanna get into buffs. It might be ok once in a while..but honestly that'd negate chanters C-line..and they're hurting enough atm. I don't see anything that'd make them worse "flying" atm.

Just my .02 worth as to how would be feasable to make it work. Make some kind of AA like clerics/druid/shaman healing ward, 30 min re-use summons a ward/banner/ headstone that has a short range ae hp drain that increases mana regen, kind of like a parked bardsong. Most likely uses for that would be wipe recovery so buffers can get mana while rez effects wearing off or park it at clerics on those long raid fights.

[Jebasiz]

Heh..like the shaman malis totem? Maybe a headstone or a skull on a stick or something?

Prathun has said no to aura's at every turn, and more then that..is set on giving us traps. I've tried reasoning with him on this..but he's a rock. Nodyin makes aa's so maybe it's possibility..I'm not really sure tbh. I'll add it to my list to talk to him about.

[BeyondTheGrave]

I happen to battle-rez quite a bit during our raids, and not by choice. Since I doubt we will ever see an EE-free rez ability, how about multiple rezzes per EE?

I would love to see us also receive an AA ablility for a non-experience rez along the lines of the druid/shaman ability.

Frankly, I would love to see the Intimidate Death AA given to necros. (If you are going to dream, why not dream big?) Our AC warrants a better line of FD as it is and I agree with the others that have mentioned it.

I also feel necros deserve some sort of turn undead AA nuke like the clerics already have. We should be given the chance to score a 32k nuke being a true dps class.

Retool our Lifeburn please with the chance to get a crit for higher damage.

[Aegrusnecrox]

I am vehemently opposed to any more undead AA's until we get alot of our more primary concerns out of the way.

Undead AA's are extremely situational, and as many of you have realised, there is very limited undead content in the part of the game where most play.

I think, at this time, worrying about undead DPS/Utility is futile and moot.

-Egg

[BeyondTheGrave]

Actually, there is quite a bit of undead in the high end raiding areas.....

[Xislaben]

Viral non-dmg snare, 75%, -30mr or better, 30sec recast? :)

We don't need it, it might even be suicidal, but it could be amusing.

[Winmancer]

I would love to see us also receive an AA ablility for a non-experience rez along the lines of the druid/shaman ability.
This would be a nice ability.

Also, I agree with Egg, undead are fairly rare and the usage would be very situational. I would much rather see some improvement in our lich.

[Jebasiz]

Undead are pretty common in DODH, PoR, and TSS..I don't think that content is a hurdle anymore...it's just getting things sorted, and then making AA's usefull. Devs do see us as having a role in undead control(a lose mastery of sorts), so I don't think we can abandon that facet, even if we want to. Even if we could..I'm not sure we should.

AA's are seperate from spells, and there are alot of ways to accomplish what I think most of us are after(in performance) as a result. Please keep an open mind and not rule things out because they aren't what you're looking(if you're just concentrating on what we need right now).

[Jebasiz]

I've been thinking about the dragged while fd suggestion. Without limitations it's insanely exploitable..and that'll probably be why it doesn't go live if it doesn't. I've also thought of making it a triggered AA, where the FD person can click it(while being fd, so it can't be a spell) and that will allow him/her to be dragged by anyone who has consent for 12 seconds, with a 30 second refresh.

I think that'd enable it for cross-room dragging, and not cross-zone exploiting. If people can think of anything else for this, please let me know.

[scrat]

Jeb-

If you can drag or summon a real corpse in order to skip content due to difficulty or time/effort - then dragging or corpse summoning a FD live player does not introduce anything other than a time saver. The only limitations needed should precisely reflect that of current corpse dragging & summoning.

The game designers obviously are extending great efforts to ensure the players have more time to be actively doing what they want to do, and spend far less time being inactive, recovering, xp grinding, traveling, medding, etc. Being able to summon or drag a FD live player would be along those lines i.e. no longer requiring rez effects & rebuffing as a penalty for skipping content. So a raid force saves 20 minutes to reach their intended target...?

Since the only FD classes could take advantage of this minor change proposal, to be balanced a targetable FD needs to be introduced at the same time. I would think the cost & availability annoyance of coffins would slightly offset the convience.

Then again being the epitome of a casual player, I've zero imagined knowledge with end-game content & the strategies currently used to bypass effort. If I'm dead wrong about this I'd certainly like to learn.

[Schaeffer]

New Veteran FD should be Tank FD. The tank hits it by accident, aggro goes to the healers and casters, then the FD'd Pallies can rezz everyone and feel useful again!

Apply useful abilities to previously useless classes... BRILLIANT!

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by scrat@Feb 2 2007, 05:26 PM
Jeb-

If you can drag or summon a real corpse in order to skip content due to difficulty or time/effort - then dragging or corpse summoning a FD live player does not introduce anything other than a time saver. The only limitations needed should precisely reflect that of current corpse dragging & summoning.

The game designers obviously are extending great efforts to ensure the players have more time to be actively doing what they want to do, and spend far less time being inactive, recovering, xp grinding, traveling, medding, etc. Being able to summon or drag a FD live player would be along those lines i.e. no longer requiring rez effects & rebuffing as a penalty for skipping content. So a raid force saves 20 minutes to reach their intended target...?

Since the only FD classes could take advantage of this minor change proposal, to be balanced a targetable FD needs to be introduced at the same time. I would think the cost & availability annoyance of coffins would slightly offset the convience.

Then again being the epitome of a casual player, I've zero imagined knowledge with end-game content & the strategies currently used to bypass effort. If I'm dead wrong about this I'd certainly like to learn.
The thing is..it wouldn't just save a little time..it'd allow SoS rogues to drag us almost anywhere, that or monks with runspeed 8 to bypass absolutely everything(hours in cases like vergalid and east/west ashengate). It's done now, but to a much lesser extent then it could be with this. I'll ask for a lesser-limited version, but if they say no, I'll have something like that ready. Still looking for ideas...

[Aegrusnecrox]

Has nodyin said anything about fixing our blood magic AA?

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

I've asked, and he's going to try..or send it to code(atleast I think).

No go on the dragging while fd AA btw. It's too exploitable.

[pizer]

an auto-fd at low hps is simply an amazing idea..

see'ing as we're supposed to be "self-sufficent", would it be out of order to ask for self cures, or does nobody want those? asking for them might impede a dps upgrade... but we may not get one anyway.

[Aiyee]

Not a new AA but how about changing our totally and completely useless archtype aa the lowers BENEFICIAL cast times into one that lowers detrimental cast times?
would be far more useful to us than faster runes, liches, pets, and dmf casting and would help make venin etc more useful

[Auree]

poor board. it fall down & go boom. :blink:



Cures is something I'll talk to him about. I wouldn't mind seeing a self-only purge, curse/corruption/poison, disease..type thing(think radiant cure, but self only). I, personally, don't want to become to be relied upon for curing my groups/random people(in raids). Curses/corruption based ae's are fairly common in current raid content, I'd rather go oom casting my shitty dots, then cure people..and I think alot agree with that.

Divine rez..if it take 2 EE's, I simply wouldn't use it. There's enough divine rezzes running around on a raid. It might be nice for a group(in a dungeon crawl or instance), but that's be about the limit on practical use. An aa that's can be used once a day..maybe(if it doesn't cost EE's). If there's support for this either way..I'll forward it to him. If he asks my personal opinion, I'd much rather not have this. Somewhere down the road, some necro is going to click his 7th vet award, use glyph of destruction, get a chaotic power proc and post a massive tic or good parse(once glyph works on dots), then post it(/sigh, I know it'll happen..I'll probably be playing oblivion(oblivion2) by then though)..and the fact that we can divine rez, will make the jealous bastards of other classes list this along with everything else(including dmf) as a reason to nerf us..it's not worth it.

I, personally like upgrading what we have, and then toss in some new stuff. Watching abilities decay infuriates me. I think alot of people feel the same way. Blood magic and lifeburn I'm going to push hard for. Instant FD, it seems he likes the idea of, and shouldn't take much pushing to get..infact, he probably is planning on giving that to us already(wouldn't shock me..Nodyin listens to feedback..it's so novel!).

Other then those 3..and the rest of what's in my email(and things I've posted that'd I'd discuss with him), if there's anything else you'd like to see..please let me know.





okay.

I can agree to all that. the insty FD sounds nifty. Would it take a second slot on my hot button bar? or can I still use the same button? I use 2 bars as it is, for all the things I use, and use "1" key spot as fd. I'd rather not need 2. that's just me though.

I agree with the upgrading existing AAs. I'm just wondering how we can cut down on the newer ones coming in that will not be useful. here would be my list for upgradings.

yes!!
death peace - upgrade please!
dot crits
heal crits
persistent casting (won't matter as much if they make FD insty-cast)
fix/improve lifeburn (would make a nifty dot)
fix/improve blood magic
raise secondary forte? (maybe)

maybe
nuke crits - shrug (nice for lifetaps)
more stats
another potion belt slot
more defensives (could say yes)
10th spell slot
death mask
swift journey

better than getting any NOOooo!s
pet crits/flurries
better pet FD? (I don't care, but I know people do)
more mana regen
more regen
upgrade the archer skelly pets!! rar!
mass undead mez
call to corpse
dire charm

nooo!
bandaging
wtd pets
fearstorm

I know others will have their own thoughts... but these were mine. =)


ps - since the pet heal has remove poison/disease/curse on it. any chance we can use it on ourselves!? (prolly we'd need to be flagged as undead while in lich) or would you prefer it as an AA ... as part of this discussion?

ps.ps. hmmm. I'm guessing you noticed the boards crashed the other night & a few posts were lost? I still had this in my buffer, so I moved back til I found it.

[Auree]

I've been thinking about the dragged while fd suggestion. Without limitations it's insanely exploitable..and that'll probably be why it doesn't go live if it doesn't. I've also thought of making it a triggered AA, where the FD person can click it(while being fd, so it can't be a spell) and that will allow him/her to be dragged by anyone who has consent for 12 seconds, with a 30 second refresh.

I think that'd enable it for cross-room dragging, and not cross-zone exploiting. If people can think of anything else for this, please let me know.

Hmmm. I had a nice occasion for that last night. managed to FD next to see invis named before I died. rest of the party died, rogue could drag the corpses back... but not mine. Cleric ran back to rez, so I just stood & died to be drug for rez.

It could be added to anywhere along our FD lines. for me, I'm not sure it's worth giving up *whatever* for, but it does have potential.

[Jebasiz]

I was told emphatically, no.

[Cerbius]

I'd like to vote on the horse AA suggestion. Maybe a horse without the startup/slowdown effects of the normal horse. Would make horse kiting more appealing giving us some of our mana regen superiority back.

[Velicindar]

Personally I'd love a skelital horse

[scrat]

I for one hope a unique mount does not gain momentum and thereby crush plans to actually enhance our class. It would be neat sure, but it wouldn't make my top 100 list. I'll trade my ammo slot for instant FD.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by scrat@Feb 9 2007, 08:50 AM
I for one hope a unique mount does not gain momentum and thereby crush plans to actually enhance our class. It would be neat sure, but it wouldn't make my top 100 list. I'll trade my ammo slot for instant FD.
and I just maxed throwing...

[Schaeffer]

Yeah I was working on that before i left too...

Gotta love Shissar Fangs, no drop throwing weapons 4tW!!!!11

[Jebasiz]

OK, so a substantial amount of time has gone by..I know some of my opinions have changed. There's things I want now that didn't really seem so important during TSS(easy content really doesn't make short-comings readily apparent), that'd really help now.

I'd like some thoughts before I list what I'd like(in addition to the previous list).

[Aegrusnecrox]

instant FD AA

AA to keep lich while zoning

some sort of AA that will make pets worth summoning, and survivable.

-Egg

[Evillil]

Instant FD would be great, I'd probably put that up at the top of my list.

Some kind of an AA to increase lich's power, maybe a gather/harvest mana type of ability, anything to increase efficiency really.

More crits/dot crits of course.

I don't know if this is really plausible, but some kind of stun, maybe a PBAE stun? Even put a couple minute refresh on it if it's a matter of it being too overpowered. I was just thinking the other night that this might be useful in groups when the shit hits the fan and all the other classes are running and screaming.

I'll add more as I think of them, I know there were a few more I thought of, but for some reason I'm drawing a blank at the moment. Keeping in mind, that these are from a non-raiding, group geared, casual necro.

[scrat]

More gay ideas-

Self only radiant cure would be super handy.

Instant FD & instant remove aggro FD should be easier to bargin for with the intent to make some mobs check corpses for FD.

Upgrade to aa's IVU & Invis, instant casting Shroud of Stealth.

[Feellia Flo]

Instant FD AA

AA that can instantly cast 5 dots at once through a special 5 slot spell bar.

AA that makes are swarm pets enrage.

Call your God AA. Kinda like epic pet, but way way more powerful that takes all your aggro. Agnostics can call fill in the ____ =)

DoT wipe AA. OK so you broke a mez!! or sick of waiting for snare to wear through a botched pull while FD...ect.

[Vanlor]

Originally posted by Feellia Flo@Apr 6 2007, 05:01 PM
DoT wipe AA. OK so you broke a mez!! or sick of waiting for snare to wear through a botched pull while FD...ect.
Oh! I have not heard this before, but I love the sound of it!

[Ulterior Motives]

Originally posted by Feellia Flo@Apr 6 2007, 11:01 PM
Call your God AA. Kinda like epic pet, but way way more powerful that takes all your aggro. Agnostics can call fill in the ____ =)
Oooo, there's a fun idea! C`mon, how cool would a baby CT (or Innoruuk, for the heretics out there) be as a pet? I'd settle for one that did 10, 15 DPS...just for cool factor!

[Aegrusnecrox]

Oh yeah, and an AA that lets us summon corpses across zonelines, and without having to have people in the same zone as you to do so.

-Egg

[Xatrekak]

Insta fd is defiantly at the top

i had an idea similar to to Feellia Flo's

Feellia Flo-

AA that can instantly cast 5 dots at once through a special 5 slot spell bar.


sept mine was an aa usable every 30 min or so that casted every dot we had memed for like 5k mana


i would also like an aa that would make us fd any time our rune was broken form a melee attack

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Xatrekak@Apr 7 2007, 10:24 PM



i would also like an aa that would make us fd any time our rune was broken form a melee attack
Hrm..that might get agrivating. You want an AA-rune that fd's us when it's broken? Tying something like that to a spell would suck..(and more-then-likely be problematic).

[Aiyee]

How about some kind of mana AA, maybe reuable every 15 or so, kinda of like army AA where you get 75-150 mana or so back from each corpse in range...deatheater or something. Or an intensify pain type AA where you get 10,20,30% increase in hp loss/mana gain from lich spells on you..if they arent going to upgrade lich itself for the new mana costs.

Would love a dot extend aa but probably too powerful to give even for 15aa for a 1 tick would be worth it.

[Xatrekak]

hmmm what about an aa rune with tied onto it =/


err maybe not the whole idea doesn't sound as good as it did yesterday at 3 am =/

[scrat]

Pet Lifeburn, 3 minute re-use.

[Xislaben]

I'd like an AA, passive, that adds 1 tick to all detrimental spells we cast that last for at least 24 seconds. Stacking with worn foci of course.

That won't really affect DPS much, but it'll certainly help with DPM and stacking.

[neferakhen]

To sound repetitive:

Instant FD, or being able to FD when your hp reaches 0% seems like a good idea

Call your god AA would be hilarious, but maybe it shouldn't be a top priority (Innoruuk FTW!)

Being able to keep lich through zones would be very nice.

Summoning a corpse even when a person is not in the zone.

Being able to cast as much pets as the AA (Zombie Outbreak, Army of the Dead, whichever) no matter the corpses that are found in the area. It can be just to use one corpse to be all pets, or that the remaining ones are just shades.

AA Skelly Horse would be cool to see, but don't think it should be a priority either

I don't know what else lol

[Schaeffer]

Originally posted by neferakhen@Apr 13 2007, 01:27 PM
I don't know what else lol
Neither does the dev team and thats why we need to come up with more suggestions so we can get some of our uberness of yore back.

[Evillil]

I don't know if it's been said before, it's been a long day and I'm tired, but what about a call to corpse AA? Sort of like a reverse summon that takes you to your corpse instead of the other way around. Across zones would be great. I'm sure this could be exploited somehow though so I doubt it could happen.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Schaeffer+Apr 13 2007, 12:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Apr 13 2007, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-neferakhen@Apr 13 2007, 01:27 PM
I don't know what else lol
Neither does the dev team and thats why we need to come up with more suggestions so we can get some of our uberness of yore back. [/b][/quote]
I don't think that's it. What I think is..Nodyin is smart enough to know that we know more about necromancers then he can hope to, and is going to "subject matter experts" for input vice assuming he knows enough/better then us and giving us some regurgitated crap.

He's military, they train you to do that..not guess and hope it works out ok.

I like that he's taking this approach.

[Xatrekak]

ok so i though of a good aa ability i would like after playing some MTG the other day, bit of back ground first though

in MTG (magic:the gathering) liches, which we in eq are portayed as, are often shown as nearly immortal or using something else as a life source and having an effect that deals with others around them.

in this line of thinking i though it would be kewl to get a set of 3 aa's that did some thing like this

1. The first one is an aa when we activate it the next time we cast lich it adds on a thing to the spell that makes it so it heals our group for 5-10% of all the dmg we do

2. next one is an aa when we activate it the next time we cast lich it adds on a thing to the spell that makes it so it gives our group 5-10% of the dmg we do to our group in the form of mana/endurance

3. the last one is an aa so the next time we cast lich it makes it so when ever we take damage it either takes it out of our mana or doing like 75% dmg to our mana and the rest to our hp.

going along with this it could make us incorporeal so though we have a 10-50% chance to dodge a hit

now i know this would be really good so it would prolly need a draw back which could easly be done without hindering it too much by doing something like snaring us or making it so heals or something are 50% less effect againt us

[Khyandys]

3. the last one is an aa so the next time we cast lich it makes it so when ever we take damage it either takes it out of our mana or doing like 75% dmg to our mana and the rest to our hp.

An AA like this already exists - enchanter's Mind over Matter. Approximately half the damage from a set number of hits is taken out of mana and the rest from hit points. I use it all the time as an enchanter, but I can't think of many situations where I would find this useful for my necromancer. My enc is far more likely to die before I can use up my mana, so I'm not losing effectiveness by letting my mana suck up some damage. My nec, on the other hand, doesn't usually have that problem. <shrug>

I like the other ideas, though.

[Jebasiz]

ok so i though of a good aa ability i would like after playing some MTG the other day, bit of back ground first though

in MTG (magic:the gathering) liches, which we in eq are portayed as, are often shown as nearly immortal or using something else as a life source and having an effect that deals with others around them.

in this line of thinking i though it would be kewl to get a set of 3 aa's that did some thing like this

1. The first one is an aa when we activate it the next time we cast lich it adds on a thing to the spell that makes it so it heals our group for 5-10% of all the dmg we do

2. next one is an aa when we activate it the next time we cast lich it adds on a thing to the spell that makes it so it gives our group 5-10% of the dmg we do to our group in the form of mana/endurance

3. the last one is an aa so the next time we cast lich it makes it so when ever we take damage it either takes it out of our mana or doing like 75% dmg to our mana and the rest to our hp.

going along with this it could make us incorporeal so though we have a 10-50% chance to dodge a hit

now i know this would be really good so it would prolly need a draw back which could easly be done without hindering it too much by doing something like snaring us or making it so heals or something are 50% less effect againt us

The first 2 have been suggested multiple times. Nodyin has those.

I'm not sure about #3 and would like some opinions on it before forwarding that along. It sounds like an enhanced geomantra AA..which I personally have never found that useful(it's an item effect). Lifetaps have set mana costs and can compensate for most AE damage, when it can't click a potion..

[neferakhen]

3. the last one is an aa so the next time we cast lich it makes it so when ever we take damage it either takes it out of our mana or doing like 75% dmg to our mana and the rest to our hp.

going along with this it could make us incorporeal so though we have a 10-50% chance to dodge a hit


Maybe the second part of it: improved chance to dodge a hit, but i don't know... taking it out of our mana...

That might be tricky... I dunno, not too fond of the idea. But will depend on how they work it out I suppose.

[winchester20]

I know instant FD has been mentioned, just want to throw my vote in on that. And somewhere on the board I've seen suggested an AA Levant. Now that would be sweet. Or an AA Harmshield?

[Xatrekak]

hehe i just wanted the third one so i could chain bloodmagic forever with lifetaps and not die, although i havnt used it since they chnage to it went live so im not sure if its even needed anymore

[Xislaben]

hehe i just wanted the third one so i could chain bloodmagic forever with lifetaps and not die, although i havnt used it since they chnage to it went live so im not sure if its even needed anymore

Blood magic is time limited, and even if it weren't instant cast spells still have a recast timer on em, so all it does is double your cast rate more or less.

[scrat]

I've an endless bag of lame ideas! Somebody shut me up.

Stoicism
5 ranks
Each rank increases the chance that you will channel through a spell that would normally be interrupted due to minor changes in movement. The last rank grants immunity to interrupts caused by normal melee push.

Rage
Activated (Instant), 90 second duration (20 minute reuse)
This ability reduces the movement of the player by 90% while making it impossible to fizzle a spell or to be interrupted during spell casting by any means other than death.

Bane of Fire
5 ranks
This ability increases the minimum amount of focus (if applicable) that is applied to fire based damage spells. 2%, 5%, 7%, 10%, 15%. (instead of 0-65% @ 32.5% ave, would max out at 15-65% @ 47.5% ave)

Bane of poison, disease, magic - same as above.

Soulbind-
Dedicates a single inventory slot as soul-bound. Any item in this location will mystically remain with your soul through death.

Walking Dead -
Transforms your characters flesh into the underworld to such an extent that nearly all NPCs and Undead alike are unable to detect your presence.

Convincing Death-
3 ranks
This ability makes it possible that creatures immediately forget about your actions if you successfully feign death. Each rank increases this chance.

Greater Sacrifice-
5 ranks
Each rank reduces the amount of experience a player normally loses due to being sacrificed by 10%.

Critical Essence-
When you perform an action that results in the creation of an Essence Emerald, this ability gives you a chance of creating two. The success is equal in percentage as your ability to perform a critical blast.

Mark / Return to Tomb
Mark -This ability allows you desecrate any indoor location as your tomb. Consumes an Essence Emerald.
Return -This ability allows you to return to your tomb. Consumes a pair of tiny jade inlaid coffins.

[Fright]

Back in the beginning of the thread i saw someone post about an aa root. Id like that one. It could be modeled off of shamans Virulane Paralysis aa. Give it a new necro name, either keep it disease based or maybe poision based for the necro version.

[Sivas]

Scrat, those are some good ideas -- keep them coming. I especially like the Bane of Fire/Poison/etc lines which increase the minimum dmg increase from focuses. That would be a nice way to increase our overall dps without increasing our "max theoretical" dps that the devs seem so frightened of. That change could also apply to other classes so it wouldn't just be necros that benefit. Jeb, has that idea been submitted before? 15% might be excessive for the first line of that type of spell, but the idea is great.

I also like the Stoicism and Convincing Death ideas (and again other classes could benefit). A root AA would be cool too if it has a very short reuse (no dmg preferred).

Sivas

[Schaeffer]

I especially like the Bane of Fire/Poison/etc lines which increase the minimum dmg increase from focuses. That would be a nice way to increase our overall dps without increasing our "max theoretical" dps that the devs seem so frightened of. That change could also apply to other classes so it wouldn't just be necros that benefit. Jeb, has that idea been submitted before?

I was mulling around over on the Mage boards and they have something similar. It's not so much an AA, but just a raising of the minimum effect a focus will have in general. Seems feasible to me.

[Rorthoz]

What about a Lifeburn that heals someone instead of causing damage to the NPC?

[Nelran]

5 rank AA ability.

Hastened Feign. Each rank of this ability reduces the casting time of your Death Peace AA by .4 seconds. At the 5th rank, it is instant.

Rank 1 - 5 AA
Rank 2 - 10 AA
Rank 3 - 15 AA
Rank 4 - 20 AA
Rank 5 - 25 AA

Yes, expensive, but that's probably what would sell it to the devs. And I know every one of us would immediately work on buying it. Are you willing to spend 75 AA for an instant FD? :P

[LostAngel]

Hell yeah, IF it was no fail.

[scrat]

Are you willing to spend 75 AA for an instant FD? :P

Heck no! Yes! No way! Probably, but maybe not. That's too expensive, but I'd buy it. Definately would give serious consideration towards buying or refusing.

Some crap like this happens v. the other suggested paths/costs you need to be hunted down and given a serious scolding and hand-shake. You too are mean in your own kind way to be suggesting total crap like this in a highly appealing fashion.

[Jebasiz]

75 AA takes like a weekend?

[Brahman]

Heck no! Yes! No way! Probably, but maybe not. That's too expensive, but I'd buy it. Definately would give serious consideration towards buying or refusing.

Some crap like this happens v. the other suggested paths/costs you need to be hunted down and given a serious scolding and hand-shake. You too are mean in your own kind way to be suggesting total crap like this in a highly appealing fashion.

/agree !

its expensive but worth every bit. hell i would say even if it was 4 levels at 30 AAs per level lol

[neferakhen]

75 aa's for an instant fd? it is very possible i would spend it... but it wouldn't be too high on the list of things i need to get atm... but honestly I choose my aa's very erratically, so who knows?

[Nelran]

That's the reason for 5 ranks. You get benefits at each rank, not just having to wait out for the final reward.

I know there's been times where if my FD had been a quarter of a second shorter, that last hit wouldn't have landed and I would still be living. :P

[Meph]

I'd buy it in a heatbeat, all i use now are glyphs anyway heh. =/

[scrat]

75 AA takes like a weekend?

Speak for yourself, sir! ...wait, uhh. I retain my initial firm stance; this is the most horrible and badly thought-out idea ever that has my fullest support.

[neferakhen]

this is the most horrible and badly thought-out idea ever that has my fullest support.


LOL @ scrat... I'm with you

[scrat]

All seriousness aside, we have been feigning since level 16. Monks don't get feign until 17 albiet in a skill form which has huge advantages over spell form. At 70 monks get perfect fd - granted the reuse time after buying the recast reduction series is still like 24 minutes or something. Still, the kungfu boys learn a skill later in life - and master it faster. I'm okay with that. But I argue we sould not be far behind being able to convince a mob we are dead when in fact death and the dead is what our class revolves around. I also throw SK's into this line of thought.

I suppose I'm trying to argue that we deserve instant FD, and the cost should not be high. Granted I would spend 75 aa for instant fd, but I won't be happy about it. 75 aa points is what I expect to spend to gain 10-15% increase in average DPS...not what I had in mind for something I think we are owed fairly cheaply.

What I think we deserve, is an instant Improved Death Peace at level 76 costing 9-12 points, and another 5-rank ability at 80 that guarantees a perfect FD at the highest level. Of course, this will be balanced by lots and lots of new content mobs that hit corpses to check if players are really dead or just feigning.

[Jebasiz]

I was mulling around over on the Mage boards and they have something similar. It's not so much an AA, but just a raising of the minimum effect a focus will have in general. Seems feasible to me.


This has. The thing is..everyone his their own idea on how to "fix" something that Rashere and prathun feel isn't "broken." Most of the parses they see(and that I see) usually have a caster in the top 3 or 5. Whether it's us or a wizard, it doesn't matter..but we(us and wizards) can potentially be there. Given group make up, outside buffs, glyphs, 7th vet..duration of fight, procs like mana recursion etc..we(again, us and wizards) can usually crack that top five(not so much on anything but veldyn in ashengate), if resists aren't a problem.

[Sivas]

We're not proposing adding AAs which raise minimum focus effects to "fix" anything (at least I'm not). I just think it's a nice way to increase our average dps. I assume that in the next expansion both meleers and casters will get increases to their dps. Why not use this "different" approach rather than simply giving us 1% more crits like they usually do. It could also be used in addition to other AAs (like more crits) if they wanted to.

Sivas

[Aaena]

I would love an AA or spell that gave me lich where i was not under an illusion. after 7 years of being a skellie, i would like to raid with the illusion clickies i have collected or have a grp chanter be able to have some fun with a necro.

[Xatrekak]

another aa i would like to see is one that gave us a second mini spell bar that we could only put pet spells and pt buffs and heals in

[scrat]

If Rashere is as good as he thinks he is - (reducing melee push by 90% as of July 5 patch) we should see a significant improvement on Death Peace working when we actually need it. It may go a long ways towards eliminating our need for an instant flop.

[Immudin]

From patch message today 7/12/07

- Players should now be receiving the same kind of push from NPC attacks as the did prior to our last patch

[Brahman]

apparently they didn't mean to lower mob push :p

[Lashden]

That makes me sad :( . Fighting underwater was actually possible, as well as getting a FD off the first time (and only chance most of the times).

[encephalitis]

Can we get an AA that casts a -25MR debuff with refresh of 3min and cost of 12 aa points?

Or would that wreck shop on this immaculate balance they've built in this game?

[Aegrusnecrox]

Lash, Brahman, I made a post about this on the EQ Live boards. I linked it here in Necromancer Class Issues.

Go read it and voice your opinions there where the devs will see them.

-Egg

[Aoii]

How about an AA that will allow you to send someone back to their corpse, "Return to Corpse" nice for those that are solo'ing in hard to get to spots. I would love to be able to send myself back to where I was just solo'ing, as long as it is a safe spot. Also, not an AA, but how about an upgrade to Infusion? like a 10K mana heal, or Complete, for a single EE still.

[Mordred]

I've an endless bag of lame ideas! Somebody shut me up.

Stoicism
5 ranks
Each rank increases the chance that you will channel through a spell that would normally be interrupted due to minor changes in movement. The last rank grants immunity to interrupts caused by normal melee push.

Rage
Activated (Instant), 90 second duration (20 minute reuse)
This ability reduces the movement of the player by 90% while making it impossible to fizzle a spell or to be interrupted during spell casting by any means other than death.

Bane of Fire
5 ranks
This ability increases the minimum amount of focus (if applicable) that is applied to fire based damage spells. 2%, 5%, 7%, 10%, 15%. (instead of 0-65% @ 32.5% ave, would max out at 15-65% @ 47.5% ave)

Bane of poison, disease, magic - same as above.

Soulbind-
Dedicates a single inventory slot as soul-bound. Any item in this location will mystically remain with your soul through death.

Walking Dead -
Transforms your characters flesh into the underworld to such an extent that nearly all NPCs and Undead alike are unable to detect your presence.

Convincing Death-
3 ranks
This ability makes it possible that creatures immediately forget about your actions if you successfully feign death. Each rank increases this chance.

Greater Sacrifice-
5 ranks
Each rank reduces the amount of experience a player normally loses due to being sacrificed by 10%.

Critical Essence-
When you perform an action that results in the creation of an Essence Emerald, this ability gives you a chance of creating two. The success is equal in percentage as your ability to perform a critical blast.

Mark / Return to Tomb
Mark -This ability allows you desecrate any indoor location as your tomb. Consumes an Essence Emerald.
Return -This ability allows you to return to your tomb. Consumes a pair of tiny jade inlaid coffins.


I like all these ideas but Mark Return TOmb is one I love most. I'd use that in a lot of situations and I think with the cost and idea that it is indoor only we could possible push it through.

[Feellia Flo]

I've an endless bag of lame ideas! Somebody shut me up.

Stoicism
5 ranks
Each rank increases the chance that you will channel through a spell that would normally be interrupted due to minor changes in movement. The last rank grants immunity to interrupts caused by normal melee push.

Rage
Activated (Instant), 90 second duration (20 minute reuse)
This ability reduces the movement of the player by 90% while making it impossible to fizzle a spell or to be interrupted during spell casting by any means other than death.

Bane of Fire
5 ranks
This ability increases the minimum amount of focus (if applicable) that is applied to fire based damage spells. 2%, 5%, 7%, 10%, 15%. (instead of 0-65% @ 32.5% ave, would max out at 15-65% @ 47.5% ave)

Bane of poison, disease, magic - same as above.

Soulbind-
Dedicates a single inventory slot as soul-bound. Any item in this location will mystically remain with your soul through death.

Walking Dead -
Transforms your characters flesh into the underworld to such an extent that nearly all NPCs and Undead alike are unable to detect your presence.

Convincing Death-
3 ranks
This ability makes it possible that creatures immediately forget about your actions if you successfully feign death. Each rank increases this chance.

Greater Sacrifice-
5 ranks
Each rank reduces the amount of experience a player normally loses due to being sacrificed by 10%.

Critical Essence-
When you perform an action that results in the creation of an Essence Emerald, this ability gives you a chance of creating two. The success is equal in percentage as your ability to perform a critical blast.

Mark / Return to Tomb
Mark -This ability allows you desecrate any indoor location as your tomb. Consumes an Essence Emerald.
Return -This ability allows you to return to your tomb. Consumes a pair of tiny jade inlaid coffins.

Sounds cool minus any new use of EEs, spells, AAs or otherwise. Coffins are good enough of a regnant for Return to Tomb AA...2 to place a tomb and a just hotkey press to get back.

Would be neat when you zone over as a coffin graphic that fades when you crawl out, kinda like Cara Omica on the 5th floor of Tower of Frozen Shadows. I got a good laugh at seeing her for the first time way back when.

[Feellia Flo]

Convincing Death-
3 ranks
This ability makes it possible that creatures immediately forget about your actions if you successfully feign death. Each rank increases this chance.

I really hope something like this pushes through, along with insta FD type AA.

For the hell of it I completed 2 sewers task to wrap them up out of boredom and this AA would of helped downtime big time. I would rate any new FD AAs as priority number one.

[Qedd]

I would love an AA or spell that gave me lich where i was not under an illusion. after 7 years of being a skellie, i would like to raid with the illusion clickies i have collected or have a grp chanter be able to have some fun with a necro.

My personal favorite, indeed. I'm so tired of the illusion on Lich, I could vomit. It was neat years ago when nobody else could do it. Made us distinctive, esp at higher levels (demi-brown ftw). Now, every other toon in the game has some sort of skelly click item or potion or spell.

I'm not sure if the AA mechanics can take off the illusion if it's part of the actual spell itself, but ... maybe it could be done as a trade-in. Trade in the Lich spell of your choice to some NPC and get back a version that has no illusion component.

Surely that's something that could be done with little complication.

[Wycca]

Just tell Prathun you don't want an illusion component in it, and that you'd simply like self-only illusions that replicate all lich illusions. He'd probably go for it, since most of them are already spells.

[FCseven]

It would be more of a spell issue.Now that the spell limit of 19 is gone I don't see the problem with having 2 versions of the next lich,one with the skelly and one without.

[Wycca]

Oh, semi-related to AA, I mentioned the pet hold bug with Nec pets, he said he was already aware of it via Jeb, so I guess it's just a status update.

[Jebasiz]

He's aware of a lot..I'm hoping to actually see fixes before SoF. The mana recursion and arcane aria bugs w/blood magic are infuriating.

[Xislaben]

What pet hold bug would that be?

[Jebasiz]

It's moreso a thing where pet hold doesn't clear the pet's hate list. Whenever you hit attack your pet runs off and attacks things in the order you or it was attacked. It's prevalent in places like Theatre of Blood and Solteris. Tash is a big culprit. A drachnid mesmerizer ae tashes the raid, your pet is on Ur-floxiz Lochmaul, that big, dumb orc dies..you hit pet hold. Target Aprosis the Fourth Confident and hit /pet attack..and your pet suicides on a spider that hits for 4k...instead of attacking aprosis.

It was described as a bug to me in an email from QA, it's really a lack of pet management, but I wouldn't mind to see pet hold "get fixed".

[scrat]

The way I have always understood & experienced /pet hold -

It only prevents the pet from attacking. Period. It doesn't wipe any hate list, nor was it ever intended to. The only means to wipe a pet hate list is to use your backoff key, or suspend.

Those using /hold should be very much aware that the moment you then hit /attack, the pet will immediately attack any & all mobs on it's hate list, starting with the one it hates most.

The only means to force a pet to attack a particular target regardless of what is on it's hate list is to purchase the additional AA Pet Focus under Advanced Pet Discipline. Focus is a toggle - it only sets the priority in which mobs are attacked. If 3 mobs are being attacked, you use /focus on mob_a - the moment mob_a is dead the pet will attack whichever mob_b or mob_c that is highest on it's hate list. Again, the only way to clear pets hate list is to use /backoff or suspend. To re-direct your pet to the desired target, you can use normal /attack command as the "focus" effect will remain in effect until you toggle it off.

The most reliable method to have your pet attack only targets that you choose when in a mayhem of activity is to be on top of your game, use /focus and /hold and /backoff appropriately.

Most of my experience with pet commands stems from my years of being a mage main, and I've never known of necro pet commands/behavior acting any differently than mage pets. Hope this clears any misconception about /hold being bugged.

[Xelgadis]

"/pet back" doesn't clear the pet's hatelist, all it does is simply tell the the pet to stop attacking. Easy way to see this is when the pet has several targets on its hatelist, with the Focus toggle off, then telling the pet to attack something after having issued a "/pet back" command. The pet will go after whichever target is higher on its hatelist.

I use a hotkey that looks like this:

/pet hold
/pet back


Prior to Omens of War, pets did seem to be a little more intelligent, and would actually attack the target you told it to, regardless of how many targets were on its hatelist. After Omens went live, and the "Advanced Pet Discipline" line was introduced, I noticed an immediate change in pet intelligence, where it would simply go after whatever target it felt like attacking, unless you used the Focus toggle, which required purchasing the first rank of Advanced Pet Discipline. So long as you keep the Focus toggle on, the pet will attack what you tell it to.

[Xislaben]

I've never noticed my pet misbehaving, and didn't think hold was supposed to drop agro.

I use a social similar to Xel's:

/pet hold
/pet back off
/pet follow

I added the follow cause I swear it makes the thing run faster.

[Aegrusnecrox]

On a side note, I am very pleased to see that people are using blood magic now that it has been fixed.

We all know where the laurels rest for that change /cough

j/k of course :D

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

Well, it's not supposed to. It was just described as a bug to me in the email. If they want to fix it so I don't have to hit pet back off before attack every time, I'm not going to tell them "no".

[Vanlor]

I have definitely noticed the same 'pet attacking the wrong mob' even after pet hold problem. I have had it happen even just when I have gotten an add in Attiki. Usually the pet is tashed or something and before I know it the pet is on the add that I have only snared and not stacked with dots yet =/

I do not have /pet focus yet, however. This very reason is making me seriously consider buying it earlier than planned, though so far it hasn't gotten me pissed of quite enough. If what Scrat and Xelg says is true (I believe it is) there really is NO way to clear our pet's hate list then? To me it seems like we need some way to do this, hold would be very nice, though in it's definition it make sense that it only keeps the pet from attacking.

If this doesn't get fixed as a bug, it might be worth asking for a /pet clear hate list aa of some sort? It sucks to have to ask for something that should already be in-game as an AA, however, if it bothers enough people.

/pet focus would take care of most of the problems, but what if you have some event (making one up for lack of immediate example) where there are two named and say a trash mob. Both named aoe, putting them on hate list, and you send the pet focused on the trash mob to clear it first. Now, named A is the mob that you burn down next but named b aoe'd first. Does pet focus immediatly move the next mob you tell pet to /attack to the top of it's hate list even for subsequent mobs? Will the pet ONLY attack what you tell it to when focused, even if another mob is on it's hate list? In other words, do we always have to keep the pet /hold when we don't want it attacking?

I'm sure once you get the hang of using /pet focus along with /pet hold it isn't too complicated. It still seems like a pain to have to pay this much attention to a pet mid fight, it's almost like having to CC when you aren't CCing.

[Xislaben]

If this doesn't get fixed as a bug, it might be worth asking for a /pet clear hate list aa of some sort? It sucks to have to ask for something that should already be in-game as an AA, however, if it bothers enough people.

The hate-list-clear function is already in game, and you don't even need an AA for it.

/pet back off

or maybe it's just /pet back

I don't recall the exact syntax and am at work ><

The thing is, if held and backed off, the pet 'may' acquire *new* mobs on its agro list if a mob ae's you or it, and just not attack it until the hold is released by telling it to attack another mob.

mob1 ae's you, pet adds it to agro list and attacks.
you hit pet hold and pet back off, pet remove mob1 from agro list.
mob2 ae's you, pet adds it to agro list but does not attack (still held)
you tell pet to attack mob3, what happens?
1) pet attacks mob2 who was on agro first or
2) pet attacks mob3, cause you told it to?

I think maybe the issue is if the pet can acquire new mobs on its hate list while it's being held or not, and if so how it choses which to attack.

I make sure to use pet focus on raids, and to hold and back off the pet when the focussed mob dies, otherwise who knows where it will end up, and SK's <3 you when your pets are on CC mobs :)

[Vanlor]

Ah ok, I didn't realize that the /pet back (or whatever, also at work) cleared the hate list but that makes sense.
I too use the:
/pet hold
/pet back
scheme of course.
The thing is, if held and backed off, the pet 'may' acquire *new* mobs on its agro list if a mob ae's you or it, and just not attack it until the hold is released by telling it to attack another mob.

mob1 ae's you, pet adds it to agro list and attacks.
you hit pet hold and pet back off, pet remove mob1 from agro list.
mob2 ae's you, pet adds it to agro list but does not attack (still held)
you tell pet to attack mob3, what happens?
1) pet attacks mob2 who was on agro first or
2) pet attacks mob3, cause you told it to?

I think maybe the issue is if the pet can acquire new mobs on its hate list while it's being held or not, and if so how it choses which to attack.


I guess that is the question then. I know my pet has gone for a mob I did not direct it to /attack from hold, but like I said, I don't have focus. The case may just be him getting the 2nd mob on his hate list via aoe, or it hitting/casting on me post /pet hold /pet back cmds. Maybe I should get in the habbit of hitting my /pet hold /pet back button just before directing him to /attack if there is a possibility he has gained unwanted mobs on his hate list =/

I tend to believe that /pet hold itself should not clear aggro, but while turned on maybe it should prevent anything from going on the pets hate list? Maybe that exact thing is the real 'bug' the dev meant. It makes sense for a pet on /pet hold to be totally held, basically oblivious to the outside world until you tell him otherwise.

[Xelgadis]

and SK's <3 you when your pets are on CC mobs :)
Usually I just tank the "CC mobs", along with the main mob that's being DPS'd down, otherwise they're mezzed, which pets won't attack when the target is in that state. Tanking multiple mobs isn't something that phases me, or my box cleric, much at all. Jeb can verify that.

Prior to the push change, I LOATHED pets, since the day I started playing a tank. The push they generated was ludicrous, to the point I developed a slightly humorous measuring system for pet push:

Necromancer Pet = 1 Monk
Magician Pet = 2 Monks
Beastlord Pet = 3 Monks
I based it off of Monk push, because (nothing personal) that class had the most retarded melee-based push over any other class, by a significant margin.

[Xatrekak]

well if any one is having agro problem with the pet being help there could be a few things wrong.

/pet hold
/pet back off

if back off is before hold it is possible for your pet to get agro before the hold takes effect and then have that mod on its agro list while held, so if u sick it on another mob when it dies it will go after anything on its agro list.

another thing is make sure you use

/pet back off

and not

/pet back (it doesnt do anything)

also while held a pet cannot add anything to its agro list

easy test, pull 2 mobs let both hit you with pet on hold, then kill pone and sick pet on it when it dies the pet will just come back to and not attack the second mob.

[Vanlor]

also while held a pet cannot add anything to its agro list

easy test, pull 2 mobs let both hit you with pet on hold, then kill pone and sick pet on it when it dies the pet will just come back to and not attack the second mob.

Are you positive? Also, are you using pet focus? I am 95% certain I have done likewise and had my pet go ape (no pet focus yet).

Those of you that have pet focus, you have a seperate hotkey for it? Also, does anyone know if the pet will ONLY attack what told to while focusing? Even if others are on hate list after you tell it to attack the first mob?

[Xatrekak]

i havnt played for a while about 4 months but last i was on this was true i used to kite in 69.1 alot and would usally clear the entire instace befor resetting i had that senario happen a lot with my pet where i would get hit by multiple mobs and they would get on his agro list......

at least i think however those commands where on my "3" button and pet attack was "2" so i pressed it whole lot, so it could be that i just pressed it so often i always cleared his ago list


and if the pet does get agro while on hold a simple fix would be to just put the /pet back off command befor the /pet attack command

[Vanlor]

I added a /pet back off before /pet attack and this seems to work nicely. They only problem with it being you have to manually tell it to hit the next mob rather than giving it a hit list (if possible with /pet focus).

Someone earlier mentioned that you had to have the whole phrase "/pet back off" and that merely "/pet back" was not enough. I checked my hotbutton and have been using "/pet back" without the "off" since adding it to "/pet hold". It will work either way... at least I assume it does since boner responds to it.

[Shadowwight]

i would like to see an aa that would allow us to suicide our pet for damage 50% up to = to pets health. could work like a pet lifeburn but would destroy the pet entirely. extra ranks could give detrimental effects on the pet (debuffs, dots, etc.) at time of destruction to the creature it had targetted for a limited time, maybe even a screaming terror type memblur at highest level.

probably would need a long recast time.

[Rorthoz]

An AA Lifeburn that heals instead of damages with a recast of 30min. 20min would be better tho. oh and instant cast time.

we are the best at siphoning life/mana right?

[winchester20]

How about an AA that is a componentless, no xp recovery rez like the druid one? Would help speed things along on raid/group wipes and keep us from havin to burn EEs. We could recall all the clerics and then let them do the xp rezzes. I don't know about the rest of ya'll, but I never get EEs reimbursed.

[Xatrekak]

well dont generally buy my EE, my guild leader supplies them to me as i usually only group with guildies and raid with them so it eats em up.

not that it would be a bad aa only thing is i wouldnt buy it until at least i had 900+ aa's. i would rather ask for aa's that would have a lil bit of a higher priority

[winchester20]

It sure is a sad sign of SOE's customer support when we have to carefully choose and prioritize suggestions for spells/AAs and such. A good idea of an AA can get pushed aside because there are other things deemed more important and so that's what the focus is on. It's kind of the way I think of our political system. We actively support and elect people we wouldn't invite into our homes for dinner. I'm knockin on what you're saying Xat, I just can't believe we have come to a point where good ideas can't see the light of day because we have so many other fundamental things the class needs and Sony is so slack at listening to us that we all have to sing like a choir the same verses over and over to get what little bones we do.

[Xatrekak]

something i would like to see is an aa version of all of our old EE spells that dont use the EE.

in addition to this i would like to have the EE spells scable to the power the orginally were.

the mana spell giving use 25% max mana returned, the lifetap doing and returning 30% of max hp

[winchester20]

I'd like to formally request the Bene Buff Duration Extending AAs. 50% extention, while only working on a small amount of our spells, would be greatly appreciated for those few, not to mention the fact that they would work on the clickies. Please, O' Jeb the Great Wonder Lizard, pass that on to the Devs with a thumbs up attached. I've not found a necro on Quellious that hasn't wanted these AA. We're pure casters, damn it! These should be in there already!

[nnigma]

Heh, I would like an aa that gives us a 25%,45%,and 65% chance to get an EE,via a dd or dot whatever works..

AA's I would like to see:

1. Improved Lich: Similar to wizzies improved familiars;this would give us greater mana/hp regen per rank. Also like wizzies,it will only fade if owner dies.

2. Improved Dot crit: Increase chance of dots doing xtra amount of damage,and certain % increase of criting.

3. Frenzied pet: Just like the suicide pet idea. Pet would go into a frenzy attacking mob viciously until it tires and dies..

4. Pet endurence: aa that would increast pets hp/damage output/procs until owner dies.

5. Improved Lifetaps/recourse: aa's that would increase chances of lifetap/dot life-taps of healing group.

6. Phantom of the dead: Improved wake the dead; mobs attack target,with improved damage output and will auto-shrink apon casting.

7. Call from the grave: Summons undead servents to attack target. Would replace the skellie archers with multiple zombies/spectres to attack the target..
6. Insta-dot: again this has been suggested before. an aa that gives us an insta-dot; 3-4 ticks,with higher than normal damage of normal dot.

[Xatrekak]

aa's i would like

1. insta fd (yea you know that was there)

2. upgrade to wtd that summons 5 of our epics 2.0 pets

3. string of 6 aa's each adding 1 more skelly archer

4. an aa doing something cool that effect me and pet (makeing us both MUCH stronger, making him taking 25% of dmg i take and my heals effecting him also, dosnt matter just something cool)

5. undead version of skin to vines (prolly better as a spell)

6. a couple of aa's with shared cool down timers that when activated chnage our lich(one making some of the dmg we take come from mana, one making % of our dmg heal use, one making us do less dmg but take 50% less dmg, just lich type things like that)

7. defensive aa's

8. more clicky aa's

[flishtaco]

It may have been said but I dont really feel like wading thru it all but a stay FD change to the Delay Death AA ++ (extra if you have the AA would be nice, I would prefer of course not to spend extra AA but would if I had to)

My personal top ten list of things to fix has to include me hitting a FD in my AA delay death (whatever else the extra ones are called range) then being forced to stand up when I get to 1hp to try and re FD.

Bunch of Crap if you ask me if I pulled the FD even in the purple because of my AA then leave me FD. Yes I will remember to click off lich if I dont feel free to paste me. If I do though please dont make me stand up and say YOOHOOO!!!! because FD and Delay death dont interact worth a shit.

Of course Lifeburn is on my list as is the archers, but I really dont understand why we cannot have a non corpse required pet AA. It is fun to rez boss mob on a raid but really at higher levels why must I have mage/shaman pity on my swarm pets?

I get non mobile archers and corpse based pets that dont hit near as hard as their swarm. Only thing that saved me the couple times I was fooking around dueling was that I had loaded both Harmshield and Quivering Veil of Xarn (forgive me if that is not exact name) against shaman and mage who were undergeared and under AA to me.

[Evillil]

Interesting idea I had the other night-what about an AA that gives our pets kind of a controllable "mini-spellbook" type of thing? Give our pets a couple spells that we can make them cast, maybe a mini-snare/root, mini-dot, and a mini-nuke. Nothing too strong or too long in duration, just some added utility to be able to kind of park our "sentry" somewhere and have him help out instead of just chasing and whacking a mob. I think could add some fun and utility, especially when pulling 3 or 4 mobs at a time.

I could see it being considered overpowered I guess so I doubt it would ever happen, but could be an interesting concept. Give the spells a long recast timer or something to cut down on it being exploitable.

I also still like the idea of giving us a short duration stun, don't know why no one else seems to like that, haha.

However, insta-FD is still tops on my wish list.

[Xislaben]

How about an upgrade to the Wake the Dead line?

I want 5 pets that cast!

I want pets that cast 'RECENT' spells, not level 50 crap!
I wanna see alternating instant cast spells from TSS/TBS not Draught of Fire for 622 dmg :(

[Fencek]

I would prefer:

1) An upgrade to Dire Charm. Up the level in which undead can be charmed and make the cost very high.

2) Shorten FD cast. (Like instant). Again, make the cost very high (like 9 or 15 AA's)

3) Continue Dot crit line. 'Nuff said

[Auree]

I'd like an AA, passive, that adds 1 tick to all detrimental spells we cast that last for at least 24 seconds. Stacking with worn foci of course.

/drool

would be the equiv of DD spells getting destructive fury .... but I'm afraid that they consider us critting for the full amount of the dot crit to to be equiv... but a passive AA for 5% increase in dot extension is really yummy.

I'll always /beg for some sort of temporary overlich ... something that stacks with lich and goes well over our regen abilities for a decent amount of mana. 100 hp a tick at the low end, and 200 or 300hp or 400hp a tick perhaps at the high end.. for however many minutes... a couple is fine.

if they think our dps is fine.... limited by the dots they give us... then the ability to cast them over a longer period of time would be fine. need ... more ... mana.