TBS spells

[Jebasiz]

Umbra Orb- Shadow orb upgrade, stacks to 20(vice 5). Lacks magnitude imo..the improved stacking is nice.

Bonestitch Fetish- Absolutely useless.

Pyre of the Fallen- Better then I thought it'd be, although I'd like it to do more dmg.

Mind Dissection- Another small upgrade on a line where noone asked for one. I'm not sure what to make of this.

Kedgefish venom- A nice, solid dot. It's our best of the poison line, that said..I'd of like a big poison based dot in the area of Ashengate Pyre damage. Given the extra two tics it's close, pending foci..but it'd of been nice to get that 1k/tic poison.

Those are my thoughts. I'm interested in yours and would like to throw this to Rashere once we have alot of feedback. If nothing else, they'll know what we like and what we're looking for in the future.

[Xislaben]

Kedgefish Venom - is the only decent spell we got this expansion. Decent damage, decent duration, decent efficiency. WTB more like this! And thanks for making it level 75, so pre-tss end game foci won't work to max and you need ally to get it. :)

Pyre of the Fallen - is blah, it's very low damage relatively with a good duration. It helps fill out the lineup in the event that a mob is entirely resistant to PR or MR or both, but on mob that don't resist it's not in the top 8.

Mind Dissection - Upgrade of a spell I don't really care for in the first place, but I'll use it in groups. Could have easily lived without this one.

Umbra Orb - Insignificant upgrade (based on trash dps) to a spell of marginal usage. The 30 second recast really limits the functionality of these skittles to an 'Oh shit!' kind of spell. This line is rarely if ever actually useful, but it's somewhat comforting to have anyway for those situations in which a single 1500 heal is nice. Could have easily lived without this one.

Bonestitch Fetish - The in-game graphic is pretty, but not enough so that I'd buy it just to look at it, and that's all the functional use it really has. Could have easily lived without this one.

Necromancers are defined by the following spell types:
Lich
Feign
Lifetap
DoTs

In TBS we saw 0 lich, 0 FD, 0 Lifetap, and only 1 really good DoT. The rest are soso or utility toys or in the trap's case, pretty useless.

[Solarra]

After breaking down and buying the expansion, I broke down and bought the trap. Ive been playing around with ideas of how it would be useful. I havent been on much in the last wee (But who has?) and am thinking it could be used as some kind of a pulling tool to make some things easier, as well as something that would help with soloing, mainly summoners, that hit too hard and/or too fast to tank all the way through its life. The snare is 90 percent, per Lucy, so they dont go too far. Really I have to say after playing around with it some more, I may be able to find some use for it, especially in situations when things go to Hell and need a quick out.

As for really useless spells, Id have to go with Umbra Orb, other than self healing. They stack to 20. Hurray. I didnt use the orbs more than a handful of times previously. Potions seem better. Especially the HOT ones.

I havent bought Kedge or Pyre yet. No comment.


One more thing about the trap, if you care/wouldnt mind to pass it along: It seems that when the trap is triggered, pet suicides. I noticed this the other day doing an Atiiki mission when I was testing out the trap to try to find some kinds of uses for it. Killed pet. I didnt make another to recheck. It happened again when I was helping a friend kill Primal Reptile. When the lizard was at 15 health, I set trap to see if it could be feared. When the trap triggered, pet died. There was no rage either time and pet didnt have aggro. Just wasnt there.

[Vanadinaa]

Well IMO it's an upgrade to one of our top spells even if it is small it will make my lineup. Corrath Venom is definately one of our better spells and any upgrade to it is a valuable tool. It could have been higher but honestly I'd use a carbon copy of CV if it came down to it as long as it stacks and theres not like a stupid recast time preventing casting both or something

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Feb 22 2007, 10:51 AM
I actually think the Pyre of the Fallen spell is the best spell we received this expansion. Its rank II is 544/tick whereas its predecessor was only 419/tick. That's a good 29% gain. Overall efficiency for that spell went up, as mana usage increased about 18%
QFT.

The class really needed the Pyre of Mori upgrade in the previous expansion. Sure, it's not the big damage/tick as Dread/Ashengate Pyre, but those 2 spells are really in a separate line from the rest of the fire dots, the fact they share the same resist affinity is the only thing really linking them.

The increase in the number of short duration dots, couple with the fact that Dread/Ashengate are horribly inefficient (by design), has been one of the causes for the decrease in necromancer "endurance". Pyre of the Fallen is one of those spells you can sustain casting for very long time, and is a good solid upgrade to Mori. How long can people sustain casting Ashengate Pyre every time it fades? GoRM is subject to the RNG, and as such can run into long "dry" spells.

[Jebasiz]

Kedgefish venom has a dpm of like 7.35. That's one of the best dots we have from an efficiency standpoint. I don't know why people don't like it. It definetly breaks that "top 8" and is one of the most efficient to do so.

Corath venom is 7.42..so ya, it's slightly more efficient, but lower dmg. Given that KFV is only .07 less damage per mana, you're really not going to notice a difference in that reguard.

How much less efficient is KFV comparatively to Corath venom?
748x7 = 5236(total KFV rkII dmg) 5236/702 7.45 which is still more efficient then CV..and is 2 mana less per cast. Therefore, if Kedgefish Venom was 702 mana per cast
instead of 704, it'd be more efficient. Unless my math is wrong(and to hell with my computer based calculator if it is)..the difference is next to nothing.

The fear trap is a red-headed slap in the face child™. The dots are fairly good(I do wish the fire dot was more significant in dps..it could keep the same dpm). Umbra orb could stand to be around 1850-2k heals..and mind dissection should probably be something else entirely(lich plz)..but people not happy with these dots really surprises me.

[Vanadinaa]

Ok this is rather long but yea that happens when i'm feeling oppinionated when i post heh but here we go...

Myself I'm rather content with the dot's we got. And even more thankful that we got a DPS upgrade instead of some of the junk prathun had planned for us.

KFV i'm happy with like i said i'd have been happy with. I was hoping we'd get a CV upgrade and like i said it will definately make my regular lineup.

Pyre of the fallen will be used atleast sometimes. I don't know for sure if it will hit my standard lineup or not yet but I'm pretty sure it will. Can't say for 100% sure until i use it. Because well my line up is off. My lack of decent foci caused from slackin off in game and taking a break from raiding play a funny role on my lineup and efficiency. Reguardless I like it and even if it doesnt make my regular lineup it will definately have it's place though if not now i know it will once my foci change.

The fear trap is a red-headed slap in the face child™. i couldnt agree more. Haha I can only see this spell having 1 use and it's in quite a trivial situation.. the fear trials i'm sure we've all done a billion times. (sorry if i don't crack jokes when i talk about this spell i have nothing to think about scept how much i'd like to run into prathun IRL in a dark alley)

another MW upgrade... yea... i seem to remember something about Mind Flay being such a small upgrade because Mind Wrack was too strong when it came out and now it's right where they think it should be? Does my memory decieve me? If that was the case then this spell shouldn't even have been concieved right? Rk 2 = 23 mana a tick upgrade and don't hold me to this cuz i haven't checked but at a glance i think it was a slight drop in efficiency. /shrug with the OOCR system I've noticed this line in group settings I haven't needed anymore (let alone had extra mana anyways) unless your healer and/or tank is rather gimp. In my experiences anyways.

Umbra Orb rk 2 is a 331 hp upgrade in healing from soul orb from what 5 expansions ago. From then to now the raise in HP received as well as the damage generally taken if a hits are taken means this upgrade isn't big enough to worth being much more than just a bit of a toy spell IMO. generally it's a heal for 2.8K which will give one extra round from your average xp mob. I'm not saying that there isn't gonna be any use for this spell because hey if u can't regen fast enough to keep up with lich u can not have to lifetap, You can toss it as an extra pet heal if your farming somethin which is usually when pet tanking occurs and ya usually don't need it so much, It can possible save you if you manage to hit it lucky and get FD off or somethin to that affect... yea I'm not really for this i would have traded this for something useful and kept the soul orbs 2.2k exceptionals. Although to be perfectly honest i can't recall scribing soul orb in ages. It's been collecting dust since the novelty factor wore off.

Prathun is a stubborn bastard who strikes me as the type who thinks he knows it all and is never wrong and really doesnt seem to care what anyone else has to say unless it has to do with giving him praise. He also doesn't seems to either have no understanding of our class or possibly if thats not the case.. maybe he has a personal agenda against necros /shrug. He's great at ignoring people and i don't envy Jeb for having to deal with him as frequently as he does. However on that note I'd like to say i do admire Jeb for getting us anything in the DPS department period that's an accomplishment in itself but not only did he get that far but decent upgrades to boot. Did you all see what Prathun originally had in store for us? Yea we'd have an undead fear and another harmshield spell instead of the DoT's we have. Not to mention his work he did to get the ratios adjusted on our TSS spells to get us atleast a little better efficiency. Jeb you rock I've said it before and i'll say it again as far as i'm concerned there isn't anyone i'd rather see as CC than you Your the best necro for the job and thanks for the great job your doing and the hard work you put in.

So before you complain about our dots we recieved (which in all reality are pretty good) look at what they could have been without the work of our CC and more than likely some assistance from the necs who beta'd TBS as well.

[Aegrusnecrox]

There is no reason to be complaining about our DoT's.

That would be like complaining about the taste of your Vanilla Icecream when the other courses in your meal were Dog shit.

The fire DoT is good, it doesn't break top 8, but i'm fine with that, it's in the top 9 and is a very solid, good DoT.

KV is the epitome of awesome. Huge dps, great mana efficiency, nothing bad about it at all, so stop your whining.

We have MUCH bigger fish to fry. We have a mind dissection spell which is useless with OOC regen, we have a soul orb upgrade that doesn't heal for enough, and we have a spell which I am not even going to dignify with a name, much less lowering myself to the level of criticizing it.

Focus on the problem folks.

-Egg

[sbenchia]

I think the dot critism is valid. Yes, they are better than the alternative that was first proposed, but they arent fantastic and they dont really compensate for 2 consecutive expansions worth of crap dps. (por/tss)

I think people are happy to finally have something, but the consensus is that the damage is too small.

The mana efficiency is the only thing prathun got right this time around.

Its his 3rd? time around as spell-dev and he still conceptualizes our class with fear, and mindwrack spells post oocr. Hes a no talent hack in the spell department and EQ would be better off with him designing monster missions instead of spells. He just doesnt seem to get it... hes like the kid in the class who holds everyone back at a remedial pace when everyone else is ready to move forward. Maybe when/if he finally graduates to competent, he can finally pick up where Rytan left off 2 years ago and give us worthy dps upgrades. Until then, these dots are still a couple horse lengths behind where they should have been.

My most optimistic hope is that he has finally reconciled with Dot DPM efficiency and can begin to move into the realm of Lich and Damage compensations. Ill give him partial credit for taking a first step, but he still has to prove himself before I stop my criticisms.

[Todwelt]

Bear with me as this is sort of a work in process and rather long … been thinking about this for a few days and writing stuff down.

We now have two lines of poison DoT’s – KFV, CV line and the BoT, Chaos Venom, Vakk’dra’s line.

The KFV, CV line is a reverse splurt poison DoT so the DPS/DPM numbers for KFV are not quite as good as what you think. Best information I have (since I don’t have either) is that both these spells lose 12 points of damage per tick for seven ticks. So you must use average damage per tick when figuring DPS/DPM for this line. Jeb, your math is correct with the numbers you used so no worries there.

Kedgefish Venom Rk II– DPS 119, DPM 7.1 (average damage per tick of 712)
Corath Venom – DPS 110, DPM 7.0 (average damage per tick of 659)
% change – 8% increase in DPS, negligible increase in DPM

The other poison line breaks down like this:
VSM – DPS 101, DPM 6.4 (was 100/5.9 before the TBS change)
Chaos Venom – DPS 79, DPM 5.8
% Change – 29% increase in DPS, 10% increase in DPM

Now for fire we have the AGP, DP line and the “Pyre of” line

AGP – DPS 165, DPM 4.4 (was 162/4.0 before the TBS change)
DP – DPS 159, DPM 4.4
% Change – 3% increase in DPS, No change in DPM

Pyre of the Fallen Rk II – DPS 91, DPM 7.4
Pyre of Mori – DPS 70, DPM 6.7
Night Fire – DPS 56, DPM 5.3
% change from Pyre to Pyre – 30% increase in DPS, 11% increase in DPM
% change from Night Fire to Pyre of Mori – 25% increase in DPS, 27% increase in DPM

----------------------------------------------------
We are supposed to be the masters of sustained damage over time. I think that these spells help move us back in that direction. Would I like to see them do more damage? Sure, and I know that everyone likes seeing those big numbers. But, don’t get hung up on those big numbers; otherwise we will get stuck with a lot of inefficient DoT’s that we are unable to sustain over long periods of time.

I would have liked to have seen a bigger increase in KFV but then I think we would have to start paying a price in efficiency, or lack thereof. The fire dot is nice and will replace night fire in my regular lineup.

Umbra Orb … new spell to make skittles with that are somewhat helpful. Mind Dissection …. With the oocr, could have done without it. I think mind flay has made my group lineup exactly once since TSS launch. Not even going to beat the dead horse that is the other spell we were handed.

I still want our Lich to be adjusted to at least a 1.2 mana to hp ratio; this ratio should be carried forward as a minimum to all future lich spells, and possibly increase slightly with each future expansion. Otherside Rk I should start at 98mana per tick. The idea of only being able to utilize two of our best DPS dots on GoM and GoRM procs (10% chance?) is ridiculous.

Why our TSS DoT’s were retuned and not our lich I’ll never know. But I’m also not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. The inherent problem with TSS spells was our lich, not the spells themselves.

When it come to top 8 spell lists, remember that there are a lot of people who will never see A:CoM. So for them, the new fire spell is number 8 in the list ranked by DPS and both make top 5 in DPM (discounting pre TSS disease and darkness spells). Assuming that they were able to get Corath Venom and Dread Pyre; if not it moves to number 6 in the list.

[Solarra]

Remember that Rytan was the one that gave us our first trap, Grave Pact and Mind Flay. He sent out the trap knowing it didnt do anything more than a very small DOT, constantly reinforced fact that he would change it after release, and then moved on to do other things.

That trap was lame. Mind Flay was marginal and Lich was expected... Itd been Omens since wed had an upgrade.


He really wasnt the great visionary youd like him to be. If anything, he screwed up some balance by putting in those high damage, high mana spells in Darkhollow. Now everyone wants upgrades of those that are substantial. Its like everything past Planes of Power. Large power increases in attempt to satiate the beast. It wont happen. They cant all be 1k/tick DOTs.

[Xislaben]

Originally posted by Doc Hollidazed@Feb 23 2007, 03:26 PM
I'm not sure why you guys don't think Pyre of the Fallen makes top 8. By my maths it makes top 5 due to its total damage. Sure it lags in DPS, but most of the time it will take 9 ticks to kill the mob anyway.

We aren't about DPS, we are about efficient DPS. Otherwise we'd be wizards.
There's only 1 event we do where I run OOM and pop blood magic, so pretty much it's all about dps for me at this point. With a 14.5k unbuffed mana pool I may not be terribly representative of necros in our content though.

There's a very good case to be made, however, for repping out your worst dot for PotF given the recent decreasing durations making the stacking of 7 or 8 dots more difficult. So if you can't keep 7 or 8 dots stacked now, then longer lasting dots may help you do more dps, even though the numbers for the top 8 decrease.

PotF is a very efficient DoT, it is not however a very high DPs one, which is what I'd prefer for the overwhelming majority of encounters in the game that I play with.

Regardless, we walked out of TBS with little better than a 4% dps increase.

TSS to TBS (mana changes and the ave. CV/KFV dmg values)
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7034/tsstotbsxy4.jpg


Same as above with PotF repped for DN
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1976/tsstotbs2pk8.jpg

[Maeryn]

n/m

[Brahman]

the simple fact is...

The DPS gains are a very small bone after having the class fucked over for 2 expansions.

It was a VERY much needed bone though.

With OoC regen, the mind flay upgrade is pretty pointless to grouping necro's, and I don't use those crappy spells on raids personally. its just been my experience that if my group needs mana (or even all the clerics) that we are wiping even if those people had full mana again. (if you learn anything from vish, this should be it really)

What we really could have used was a lich upgrade, and across the board dot upgrades to all the lines. The TSS ones were to small, and need to be boosted, not just a few of them. The two upgrades we did get are right on track with what they should have been, although being a bit larger would have been very nice.

[sbenchia]

Originally posted by Xislaben@Feb 22 2007, 03:06 PM


Necromancers are defined by the following spell types:
Lich
Feign
Lifetap
DoTs

I dont consider FD to be a spell we are defined by, and I dont want Prathun getting it into his head that it is something he needs to get creative with. Yes, it is essential but even if the spell itself never improved, it would still be viable - ceteris paribus.

The spell itself needs no changes to its dynamic, and we definitely dont need ANY stupid gimmicks tied to it like he wanted to do in tss. The only improvement I want would be an instant cast or something that reduced mem wipe time.

Prathun is such a menace Id prefer not to even have a FD change being suggested to him. Go for improvements along the AA path and give it to a competent dev like nodyin where hes more likely to get it right, or at the very least not fuck it up.

Dots, Lich, and Taps define the necro imo.

[Aegrusnecrox]

I'm with sebenchia on this one, keep prathun far away from my FD. Let Nodyin handle that one.

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

So basically, dots are good and Prathun is a menace that needs to be punched in the face?

[Vanadinaa]

Originally posted by Jebasiz@Feb 24 2007, 12:14 AM
So basically, dots are good and Prathun is a menace that needs to be punched in the face?
well he needs more than a punch in the face but pretty much

[Feellia Flo]

Wish they threw back in that 3 sec cast on DfB that was in beta.

KV is about the only good spell out of the lot.

Pyre of the Fallen would made a good PoR dot.

Umbra Orb like everyone else said could of used a slight boost in range and heal power. Then again if you have time on your hands the orb and lifeshard upgrades + heal pots can be potent. Lifeshards do share the same recast timer as orbs.

Think most of us on beta wanted the recourse on Mind Dissection turned into an instant tap, otherwise this spell is blah.

Boneshit Fetish, enough said =p

[Xelgadis]

Originally posted by Aegrusnecrox@Feb 23 2007, 05:07 PM
I'm with sebenchia on this one, keep prathun far away from my FD. Let Nodyin handle that one.

-Egg
I'm actually pretty happy with how Last Breath turned out, after Prat fixed the fail rate on it. The heal is actually pretty nice, and the chance to nuke yourself with it is so small.. I've probably nuked myself with it all of 10 times since I hit 75.

Not to mention that if it's an activated AA, that casts a spell, then Prat will likely have his hands in it in some way, shape, or form.

[Brahman]

we were getting it as a spell though, SKs got it has an AA.

Thats my understanding / recollection of it. As an AA it wouldn't have been so horrible, as a spell it was horrid.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Brahman@Feb 24 2007, 04:45 PM
we were getting it as a spell though, SKs got it has an AA.

Thats my understanding / recollection of it. As an AA it wouldn't have been so horrible, as a spell it was horrid.
and you're right. That was the problem with it. We kind of dropped the ball there, when we told him to "get rid of it". We should of said "we'd like that as an AA, not a spell". That's what brael did for Shadow Knights, and something we should of done.

[Xelgadis]

Shadow Knights got it as a discipline actually, not an AA. In the case of necros, making it an AA would have been the only other option. Main difference is that it still carries the 120 Endurance cost, whereas it'd likely be 0 end/mana if it were an AA. But considering there's only 3 other disciplines that I use, and all 3 are situational usage type disciplines, the only time I'm hurting for endurance is immediately after a rez.

Spell gems are a precious commodity anymore. Five of my gems are used strictly for spells that are designed to gain/hold aggro, two are used for direct tanking utility, and one is for my patch heal spell (ie. lifetap), that doesn't leave me a whole lot of options in which to utilize a shitload of new types of spells. Hell, in places like Zhisza and Silyssar, I've gone as far as to load Torrent of Hate in my last slot, simply because it's the best ATK debuff I get, and it's a level 54 spell.

Spells that debuff STR make a noticable difference as well. Grip of Mori is from a line that's rarely loaded by probably 99% of necros, even I was guilty of that. Anymore, that's one of the first spells I use when I'm boxing my necro in the zones I mentioned above. I'm the one taking the hits, so I definitely see the difference it makes. To be quite honest, I'd like to see an upgrade to the debuff/disease dot line, for both classes. Before TBS, mob atk really hadn't increased much since PoP, so it really wasn't necessary, such is not the case anymore in newer content. Anything that debuffs str and/or atk is a very useful spell, overall, in my eyes.

Debuffing str/atk makes the difference in mobs, like Empress Saarisz the Undying, parsing over 2k DPS on me, and parsing around 1200 DPS. More debuffs than Dark Constriction went into that, of course, but it all adds up to make a mob that's considered nearly impossible suddenly become very manageable. *see below

I fully realize that another debuff/disease dot doesn't fit the general DPS ideal that is often voiced in the community, but on the same token it does fall under the category of utility, which is a facet of the class that has seen some neglect over the years (decent utility, that's worth using, at least). Anyway, I obviously derailed the general theme of the thread (such a shocker for me, I know ;)), but it's food for thought, for future expansions.

---------------------------

For those who are familiar with various melee statistics:
Empress' unslowed delay is 10, slowed delay is 12, so you can see right there that slowing her does fuckall to her DPS. Accuracy is ~47% on me, when most mobs are around 30% (35% on a good day). She also flurries about every 3-4 rounds, on average, and it's an 8 or 10 hit flurry. Basically a caster is dead before they even realize they got aggro, no joke.

Best part about the fight is, there's 4 other mobs as well that I'm tanking at the same time. Granted, the melee from the other 4 mobs is like a ball tickle in comparison to the Empress, but it all adds up to the point I'm usually taking about 3-3.5k DPS during the first several seconds of the fight, while the Empress is being debuffed. Bottom line is, while it is possible to do that event without debuffs, the chances of DPS spikes killing a tank over the course of about 2-3 seconds are very high.

[Brahman]

I actually do use my debuffs when my guild is pushing new content. Being in a DKP guild our tanks are not always as big as we would like by the time we are ready to push new content.

[pizer]

yeah ive been using grip of mori and even crippling claud occasionally if we're low on #'s or doing new content, the durations are pretty decent

[Xelgadis]

Crippling Claudication is basically a carbon copy of Torrent of Hate, only difference being the cast time. I thought about using it in lieu of ToH, but when boxing both classes it makes sense for me to use ToH on the sk and Grip of Mori on the necro, since Grip is a slightly better debuff than Dark Constriction.

What irritates me is that, starting with PoP, atk and ac "taps" (debuff + recourse, really) ceased being taps, and turned into small DD + decaying recourse type spells. Due to the limit on the number of spells classes got in TSS (and spells being subsequently cut from the live list), we managed to combine the recourse of Pleasure of Pain with Challenge for Power. But that doesn't change the fact that the last atk and ac debuffs sks got was at 54 and 56, respectively.

Another thing to consider, perhaps. Seeing as the bonus to disease damage on Scent of Twilight is rarely utilized, maybe seeing if Prat would change that to an atk or str debuff is an option. It's a long shot, of course, but it'd increase the usefulness of the spell exponentially. Utility for necros has been crap since PoP, the only lines that really have seen continuation are barely worth casting at best (with a couple exceptions), some aren't even worth casting at all.

[Jebasiz]

Originally posted by Xelgadis@Feb 25 2007, 03:19 PM
Crippling Claudication is basically a carbon copy of Torrent of Hate, only difference being the cast time. I thought about using it in lieu of ToH, but when boxing both classes it makes sense for me to use ToH on the sk and Grip of Mori on the necro, since Grip is a slightly better debuff than Dark Constriction.

What irritates me is that, starting with PoP, atk and ac "taps" (debuff + recourse, really) ceased being taps, and turned into small DD + decaying recourse type spells. Due to the limit on the number of spells classes got in TSS (and spells being subsequently cut from the live list), we managed to combine the recourse of Pleasure of Pain with Challenge for Power. But that doesn't change the fact that the last atk and ac debuffs sks got was at 54 and 56, respectively.

Another thing to consider, perhaps. Seeing as the bonus to disease damage on Scent of Twilight is rarely utilized, maybe seeing if Prat would change that to an atk or str debuff is an option. It's a long shot, of course, but it'd increase the usefulness of the spell exponentially. Utility for necros has been crap since PoP, the only lines that really have seen continuation are barely worth casting at best (with a couple exceptions), some aren't even worth casting at all.
and if soe's board would work..I could even ask.

[Aegrusnecrox]

I have asked Prathun & Rashere, just recently in a PM, to change the disease damage focus on the SoT to Poison.

That would give it a huge boost in usefulness, I think.

Jeb, you've got a PM in your box about that too btw.

-Egg

[Auree]

Umbra Orb- Shadow orb upgrade, stacks to 20(vice 5). Lacks magnitude imo..the improved stacking is nice.
The stacking was very nice, yes. The heal of 1500 from 1100 was okay for me, but more would have made it more useful than relying on my crit heals to make the difference. I almost never use this for myself, but use it on other people during raids & occasionally groups. Will this work with any healing focus, does anyone know? Would be a shame to fight with a real healer to focus this, but that could perhaps maybe help some.


Bonestitch Fetish- Absolutely useless.
/agree

Pyre of the Fallen- Better then I thought it'd be, although I'd like it to do more dmg.
I don't have this yet (lacking faction), but I've found TSS to be lacking efficiency due to me having tacvi (40%) focus and they just don't reach the lvl 73+ spells well at all. I don't imagine I'll ever have anything above demi-plane (finally have 53 people in the last Anguish raid).

Mind Dissection- Another small upgrade on a line where noone asked for one. I'm not sure what to make of this.
I'd not use it at all. I'll stick with the lvl 70th one as it works with GoM and the TSS GoM. I rarely mem it as it is, but on occasion I get asked to cast it, so it's a nice bonus in groups if I get a GoM proc & nothing else to cast. But as I said, I rarely have it memmed.

Kedgefish venom- A nice, solid dot. It's our best of the poison line, that said..I'd of like a big poison based dot in the area of Ashengate Pyre damage. Given the extra two tics it's close, pending foci..but it'd of been nice to get that 1k/tic poison.
doesn't sound like an upgrade (don't have it) but I'd prolly use it in place of the 70th OoW poison dot (I forget the name) which I never use unless things are magic/fire resistant. The way the numbers show, it'd be less efficient than Corath Venom for me.

Overall, I was dissapointed with TBS, but not as much as with TSS. Least we got a nice lich in PoR to compensate for the high mana spells in DoDh. I'd have expected the same with TBS... the MW upgrade just wasn't in the picture at all... unless it came with a new Lich, as was the combo in PoR.

I have asked Prathun & Rashere, just recently in a PM, to change the disease damage focus on the SoT to Poison.
I, for one, would appreciate that.

as reference....
I'm buffing to close to 12k mana now.
In groups, I tend to use 69th & 70th spells . Soloing, I just "dot burn" and use oocr to recoup my mana. Raids, I use tribute for mana pres to lvl 75, and reserve Ashengate Pyre for GoMs and burn calls... unless raid dps is fine & can just burn without going oom (happening more often now in this dkp raid team). In low dps groups, I use mana pres & add. On Yar Lir (our highest DoN dragon, yet), I burn from the start and use vet AA to refresh mana. Corath Venom, 70th ancient curse, TSS curse, Dread Pyre make up the dots I always use. The others are situational for me.

[Meph]

Originally posted by Aegrusnecrox@Feb 26 2007, 01:47 AM
I have asked Prathun & Rashere, just recently in a PM, to change the disease damage focus on the SoT to Poison.

That would give it a huge boost in usefulness, I think.

Jeb, you've got a PM in your box about that too btw.

-Egg
That would be uber heh.

[Aegrusnecrox]

So rashere said that I have sent the message to the right person, and that prathun will handle it.

This means no, we wont be getting our wish on SoT.

-Egg

[Jebasiz]

He told me the same..I emailed Prathun and tried to get it through to him that disease is dead. Even the foci are hard to come by heh. If he wants to give us a boost by using the spell, it needs to be on a spell line that's viable.

[Meph]

They probably think this will make people use disease spells ....NOT

[Todwelt]

I don't think that disease line is dead. It has its useful moments. Has excellent efficiency. However, when you talk dps they are dead. Normally these spells are a last resort for me on resistant raid fights. (In group/raid settings, I do not usually use the disease line, there are instances I do though) SoT having a disease dmg mod to it will not make me use this line more often though.

I think we almost got through to Prat with the idea of fear being a dead concept. Now if we tell him disease is dead, he might discontinue the line. I hope not though.

Faer'den's Fever is a spell I would like to have seen go live, with a little more damage of course. Maybe next expansion... in what 3 months <_<