Jebasiz
04-13-2007, 06:25 PM
Preface: This is posted for the benefit of you here, feel free to critique it as you see fit, but it won't do much good. Rashere is almost 100% logic in conversation and feels that the lich spells from a mana return aspect are ok. He also feels that if the damage ratios were off, they'd of never been that high to begin with. My feedback was aimed at showing him where the damage component needed to be and why. It's not going away, and really..based on the feedback I received (I've been busy since that freaking thread on eqlive), an 18% reduction in lich damage will put the "average casual necromancer" at a break even or better point in terms of regen vs lich dmg. That's the goal. The raider feedback made sense, 18% is fine..until regen scales slower then lich damage, then that 18% or regen cap needs to increase which is reflected in my post by asking for DP onward to scale higher. All in all, we lose a bit, but it's livable. I'll be asking for body and mind rejuvenation as an AA line with Nodyin for the next expansion..perhaps our own line of regens as well..to further offset this moving forward. The combination of fixes will probably put us back(or even better) to where we are today(with dot shielding mitigating lich).
The first part of this is a post on EQlive that I made and included in PM, enjoy:
I'm not arguing for more mana regeneration(at least not right now..although it would help sustain the damage we already do, it would not improve our burst damage at all, in reguards to dps). My complaint is simply, you're making the penalty for lich greater, while another class receives more mana over the same period of time w/o a penalty(ya..you're rooted, for a caster that's not a huge issue!).
I'd be very happy, in reguard to this change to see Dot shielding fixed with the way it's intended to be and have the damage component to all lich spells from Seduction of Saryrn forward, be retuned to be more efficient. Essentially keeping the damage to lich at what it is today after the change to Dot Shielding goes lives. Seduction of Saryrn is our PoP era Lich, Dot shielding should be available at that point for necromancers, at least to some degree..that's why I chose that point(if anyone is wondering).
Lich damage, even if it stays as is..will not hurt necros that are max regen(those with all AA's). That is true, but it's also true that many necros are not max regen, and don't get the AA's to raise their max regen until around 700-900AA's..there's simply better things to buy up to that point. Re-prioritizing is an option, if they have the gear to support that, but most will not..at least not without sacrificing other stats to a great degree. It's something necros haven't had to deal with for at least two years, I see no reason(especially in the current state of our lich) for people to pay that price now.
For casually geared necros with 100-500AA that I talked to last night, almost none had the all the hp regen AA's nor did they feel it was a priority..as long as they had 13-18% dot shielding, lich didn't necessitate that. In light of that feedback..I ask that Rashere and the development team follow the recommendation that I've made already, and simply make lich more efficient by way of lowering the damage value to reflect that 13-18% Dot Shielding and the damage casual necromancers would sustain without such a fix(once Dot shielding no longer effects lich).
Basically for dmg components to lich:
Lich(Level): Current: Projected:
Seduction of Saryrn(L64)- 42 dmg 32dmg
Ancient Seduction of Chaos(L65)- 50 dmg 40dmg
Dark Possesion(L70)- 57 dmg 46dmg
Grave pact(L70)- 60 dmg 49dmg
Otherside(L75)- 68 dmg 55 dmg
rank II 71 dmg 58 dmg
rank III 74 dmg 60 dmg
The projected numbers are 18% less then the current numbers. Basically that's what casual_necromancer_183721 said they had and where they broken even with lich dmg, with there combination of regen and dot shielding.
Raiders have indicated:
Dark Possesion forward should receive a greater reduction in damage since DoT shielding is more available at level 70 and then again at 75, all things being equal, it'd be nice if DP scaled at 22%, GP at 25% and then add 3% per rank for Otherside, topping out at 34% of a reduction...basically
In which case the lich spell damage would like:
lich(level): Current: Projected:
Dark Possesion(L70)- 57 dmg 44 dmg
Grave Pact (L70)- 60 dmg 45 dmg
Otherside(L75)- 68 dmg 48 dmg
rank II 71 dmg 49 dmg
rank III 74 dmg 49 dmg
That contradicts the casual feedback, although casual necros do easily acquire Otherside rank I. The necros that have that and spoke to me about it did emphasize that it would make them grossly inefficient while kiting if they had to tap to maintain their health. That or it'd be costly using health/hot potions..and then they wouldn't be available if they got hit. These are the same necros that can't cast Dreadpyre and Ashengate pyre without a GoM/GoRM proc and can't attain Pyre of the Fallen or Kedgefish venom because their friends can't tank the Katta Missions. Most are working on spell faction with the pirates for rank Is, which is the right thing to do..but these necros haven't see a true dps upgrade for quite a while(DoDH..if they could beat those missions, most could not until recently). This part of the necromancer community has been neglected and needs some serious attention. Please give them these changes..and as soon as I can find a casual necro that won't quit in 3 months to talk to me, I'll be talking to you about other things we can do for them.
Edit: If you find yourself saying, "hey, I'm that guy" when you read the bolded line on my post..[tell luclin.jebasiz HELLO, I'm a casual necro, what's up?!
The first part of this is a post on EQlive that I made and included in PM, enjoy:
I'm not arguing for more mana regeneration(at least not right now..although it would help sustain the damage we already do, it would not improve our burst damage at all, in reguards to dps). My complaint is simply, you're making the penalty for lich greater, while another class receives more mana over the same period of time w/o a penalty(ya..you're rooted, for a caster that's not a huge issue!).
I'd be very happy, in reguard to this change to see Dot shielding fixed with the way it's intended to be and have the damage component to all lich spells from Seduction of Saryrn forward, be retuned to be more efficient. Essentially keeping the damage to lich at what it is today after the change to Dot Shielding goes lives. Seduction of Saryrn is our PoP era Lich, Dot shielding should be available at that point for necromancers, at least to some degree..that's why I chose that point(if anyone is wondering).
Lich damage, even if it stays as is..will not hurt necros that are max regen(those with all AA's). That is true, but it's also true that many necros are not max regen, and don't get the AA's to raise their max regen until around 700-900AA's..there's simply better things to buy up to that point. Re-prioritizing is an option, if they have the gear to support that, but most will not..at least not without sacrificing other stats to a great degree. It's something necros haven't had to deal with for at least two years, I see no reason(especially in the current state of our lich) for people to pay that price now.
For casually geared necros with 100-500AA that I talked to last night, almost none had the all the hp regen AA's nor did they feel it was a priority..as long as they had 13-18% dot shielding, lich didn't necessitate that. In light of that feedback..I ask that Rashere and the development team follow the recommendation that I've made already, and simply make lich more efficient by way of lowering the damage value to reflect that 13-18% Dot Shielding and the damage casual necromancers would sustain without such a fix(once Dot shielding no longer effects lich).
Basically for dmg components to lich:
Lich(Level): Current: Projected:
Seduction of Saryrn(L64)- 42 dmg 32dmg
Ancient Seduction of Chaos(L65)- 50 dmg 40dmg
Dark Possesion(L70)- 57 dmg 46dmg
Grave pact(L70)- 60 dmg 49dmg
Otherside(L75)- 68 dmg 55 dmg
rank II 71 dmg 58 dmg
rank III 74 dmg 60 dmg
The projected numbers are 18% less then the current numbers. Basically that's what casual_necromancer_183721 said they had and where they broken even with lich dmg, with there combination of regen and dot shielding.
Raiders have indicated:
Dark Possesion forward should receive a greater reduction in damage since DoT shielding is more available at level 70 and then again at 75, all things being equal, it'd be nice if DP scaled at 22%, GP at 25% and then add 3% per rank for Otherside, topping out at 34% of a reduction...basically
In which case the lich spell damage would like:
lich(level): Current: Projected:
Dark Possesion(L70)- 57 dmg 44 dmg
Grave Pact (L70)- 60 dmg 45 dmg
Otherside(L75)- 68 dmg 48 dmg
rank II 71 dmg 49 dmg
rank III 74 dmg 49 dmg
That contradicts the casual feedback, although casual necros do easily acquire Otherside rank I. The necros that have that and spoke to me about it did emphasize that it would make them grossly inefficient while kiting if they had to tap to maintain their health. That or it'd be costly using health/hot potions..and then they wouldn't be available if they got hit. These are the same necros that can't cast Dreadpyre and Ashengate pyre without a GoM/GoRM proc and can't attain Pyre of the Fallen or Kedgefish venom because their friends can't tank the Katta Missions. Most are working on spell faction with the pirates for rank Is, which is the right thing to do..but these necros haven't see a true dps upgrade for quite a while(DoDH..if they could beat those missions, most could not until recently). This part of the necromancer community has been neglected and needs some serious attention. Please give them these changes..and as soon as I can find a casual necro that won't quit in 3 months to talk to me, I'll be talking to you about other things we can do for them.
Edit: If you find yourself saying, "hey, I'm that guy" when you read the bolded line on my post..[tell luclin.jebasiz HELLO, I'm a casual necro, what's up?!