May 16th Patch Feedback

[Jebasiz]

High fizzle rates, any bugs that you may come across. If agro is still a problem etc..I'd like to know.

Also, I'd like to know if people feel a review/revision of Spell Casting Subtlety is needed/wanted. It's kind of a double edged sword for those in agro kiting groups often..so if there's no need, I'd just assume we focus our efforts elsewhere.

If you feel it is needed, please post something to that effect.

[Brahman]

I noticed maybe 6 fizzles all night, irritating as hell but overall not a big deal.

The need for SCS to work on dots is easily going to take 1 - 3 weeks to really get a feel for things.

[Sivas]

I never bought the anti-fizzle AAs because I assumed they worked as described (lol!) and never noticed anyone mention differently for some reason. So I guess I'm just used to the fizzles. Sure they're annoying, but it's not that big of a deal to me. I do feel sorry for the bards who relied on no fizzles for their melodies. I think it should at least be fixed for bards since I think it affects them much more.

As for the DoT aggro, I didn't notice any less aggro tonight but I was only grouping, not raiding. I could easily hold aggro off our group's tank if I wanted to. It will be interesting to see if it makes a difference during raids (I doubt it at this point). I have mixed feelings about pushing to make SCS work. I think that if they do then they should refund the AAs so people can choose whether to buy them again or not.

I'm much more interested in seeing dots work with the Destructive Fury line of AAs. I suspect that they won't do that though since it will be a large increase in dps for a number of classes. I'm glad that they made it work with mana recurrsion and glyph of destruction though. Anyone tried it with those yet?

Sivas

[Maeryn]

I was parsing between a 2.5% & 3.75% fizzle rate last night (in North Ashen). I didn't notice anything different with the agro changes to the initial dot tick (nor did I ever really notice anything about it before, so w/e). I did notice a decent increase in my dps with Recursion & Glyph, though. Compared to previous parses it was like a 5% increase when I had Recursion on me twice during a 5 minute fight, about 10% with Glyph of Destruction.

[Lashden]

Personally the fizzles weren't too bad but still annoying to get them at all. A necro in my guild got 5 in a row several times last night though for some reason.

Don't really know about mana recursion. I suppose it just gives enchanters another choice of who to cast it on really. But I can't say I'd try to convince them to cast it on me instead than a wizzard or mage (in addition to them I would however) as it is right now.

The only thing going for us there is the fact that we are constantly casting in order to keep dots stacked in most cases (or I am anyway).

[Jebasiz]

Mana Recursion was critting for me for 2200 at times. It's once per cast, not per tic(obviously), but it is a nice boost.

[scrat]

Zombie Outbreak pets still don't bash mobs, and AoTD/WTD still does. Continuance from Apr patch bug.

[Jebasiz]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a79/gw01749/fizzles.jpg

7 fizzles in 902 casts. Are other people seeing drastically more?

[Jebasiz]

Zombie Outbreak pets still don't bash mobs, and AoTD/WTD still does. Continuance from Apr patch bug.

I bought this up..and nodyin is looking into it. He's busy, and this isn't a high priority so it could take some time.

[Brahman]

In plowing trash with a LOW dps raid tonight (we had 34 people doing roley tonight, we had the normal full compliment of tanks and healers, so ALL of the people missing were wizzies, zerkers, monks and the like) I found i could fully stack 7 dots on trash without any need to FD until they had been running for awhile. Compared to before of casting 2 - 3 dots and then getting summoned (I'm an officer and like to make my tanks work harder what can i say) this is a HUGE difference in initial aggro.

On a boss fight i would say the change will be fairly minimal, (around an 8 - 12% decrease in aggro for short duration spells, i could do the math to tell you exactly but i'm fucking tired) however in groups and very short fights the aggro change is huge. easily 20 - 25%. (mob lasts 4 - 5 tics and you get one less tic of aggro)

(mostly copied pasted from the other thread, I dont' have much to do today I may dig back into the aggro thread to do the exact math on how much aggro we lost with this change...)

[Brahman]

One thing that may need to be looked into, and i realize this would take a MASSIVE parse, and likely that it would take someone writing a special purpose parser, is that it does seem that fizzling after you have already fizzled has a significantly higher chance then just fizzling.

AKA fizzling normally has a "2% chance" and its possible that getting a fizzle right after fizzling has say a 5+% chance.

[Jebasiz]

One thing that may need to be looked into, and i realize this would take a MASSIVE parse, and likely that it would take someone writing a special purpose parser, is that it does seem that fizzling after you have already fizzled has a significantly higher chance then just fizzling.

AKA fizzling normally has a "2% chance" and its possible that getting a fizzle right after fizzling has say a 5+% chance.

I hate you and the work you create for me...

[Brahman]

well.

I remember 6 fizzles the whole night, and yet still i got a double fizzle.

I heard of someone (and used to hear about it alot) getting 5 fizzles in a row.

Sorry i didn't stick with programming for my degree man, otherwise i just would have wrote a damn parser and sent it to you. Then it would only be a matter of getting people to send 100 meg log files !

/duck

[Xislaben]

well.

I remember 6 fizzles the whole night, and yet still i got a double fizzle.

I heard of someone (and used to hear about it alot) getting 5 fizzles in a row.

Sorry i didn't stick with programming for my degree man, otherwise i just would have wrote a damn parser and sent it to you. Then it would only be a matter of getting people to send 100 meg log files !

/duck

5 fizzles in a row and I'd ask them what their specialization skills were at and what spell they were using. Every time there's a new level cap for instance (low skills) we are going to fizzle a lot before our skills progress to the point where we can cast the new spells well.

I'm try to find a way to get some good parses, but i expect the numbers to be pretty low.

[Brahman]

Just quit FDing/AFKing for plows :p, toss 2 or 3 nukes / dots on every trash mob and you will get 5k+ casts inside of a week for a massive parse.

[Xislaben]

Just quit FDing/AFKing for plows :p, toss 2 or 3 nukes / dots on every trash mob and you will get 5k+ casts inside of a week for a massive parse.

Lol! I meant casting a single spell over and over to see the rate for that specialization and that spell specifically :P

[Brahman]

oh well...

go buy a programmable gamepad with autofire !

[Lashden]

It might still be possible to do that, but it would assume you didn't give up casting the spell until it actually worked.

Basically you would record fizzles until you got a casting message then go back and fill in what spell was trying to be cast. Then after all that you can go back and analyze what the % of double or triple fizzling is per spell.

This works quite well in the reverse for recording nuke damage per spell. I made a parser to do that on top of per dot dmg (like JALP) and it even picks up on the new mana recursion procs (associates them to DD under the dot name for that tick).

[Winmancer]

I never bought the anti-fizzle AAs because I assumed they worked as described (lol!) and never noticed anyone mention differently for some reason.

Me too lol. Would have bought the bugged AA a long time ago if I would have know that. Not gonna now though. Other than that, I didn't notice fizzling any more or less than normal.

[Jebasiz]

1338 casts tonight and 14 fizzles, for 1.01%. heh

[Meph]

flizzling didn't seem that bad on raid tonigh.

Mana flare/recursion and glyph totally rock now!

Parsed nr 1 on Veldyn last night with glyph & bard =P

[Nelran]

1338 casts tonight and 14 fizzles, for 1.01%. heh

Didn't keep count of my actual casts, but about 5 hours of kiting, and 9 fizzles. One right after another. :P

Oh, and ignore Brah when he complains about Demand for Blood. He didn't have Evoc maxed.

[neferakhen]

I didn't fizzle much last night... Although, I didn't kite too much either... A total of 4 times. The first two were kind of normal. But the other two were in a row and while casting lich form.

[Jebasiz]

Lets keep parse info for dmg/dps under a tight lid atm, plz.

[scrat]

Lets keep parse info for dmg/dps under a tight lid atm, plz.

Heck yeah. Or at least do enough work pre-post to accurately reflect your personal damage not to be falsely inflated with DPS entirely attributed to another class casting mana flare, recursion, etc. Our DPS did not increase; the DPS of support classes did as per the Devs intent. Ooorah! Go-go support team!

So far, 2112 casts since patch @ 0.718% fizzle. Right on the norm for me having never purchased more than the 1st rnk of SCE purely for skill-up reasons. The number is slightly inflated due to clickys & AA casts; I need to break it down further.

[Sarnath Creed]

This is everything I have cast since the patch went in. I will hop on my mount in commons and chain cast the 75 nuke later a couple hundred times to parse that out.

FYI - I have zero anti-fizzle aa's.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/Sikjoven/Ryans%20Crap/Casts.jpg

Looking at 2,883 casts, 55 fizzles. For a 1.91% fizzle rate.

Auuar - Quellious

[Sarnath Creed]

Okay, set up my keyboard to just chain cast a spell while i ran errands all day, then waited for it to hit an even number.

This is chain casting the 75 Undead Nuke, rk2, with 220 Evoc and 75 Spec Evoc:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y248/Sikjoven/Ryans%20Crap/chaincast.jpg

4,600 Casts, 90 Fizzles, for a fizzle rate of 1.96%.

As far as i can see, that 2% fizzle rate maddok was talking about is dead on.

[75 Deathcaller (Necromancer)] Auuar (Dark Elf) <Wraith>

[Xelgadis]

Fizzles tend to come in batches, I can go hours without fizzling a single spell, then fizzle 6 or more times in a minute. I noticed this over the years before I bought the AAs on the necro, and have noticed it the entire time I've played my sk (as I hadn't gotten around to buying the AAs yet).

I don't have a large enough data sample to parse my necro's fizzle rate since the patch (if I were to wager a guess though, it'd be in the 1-2% range). I do plan to parse a gig of logs for my sk, since I'm hearing complaints that they're fizzling more than 5% (hybrids don't get specialization). Only thing stopping me from parsing those logs this instant is the fact that stripping casts of spells that can't fizzle (ie. procs, clicks, and AAs.. Touch of the Cursed, Shroud of the Nightborn Strike Rk. II, Panther Maw SK, Marrowthirst Horror Strike, Black Shroud Strike (Ornate BP click mid-fight ftw), Mental Horror Strike, Harmful Touch, Life Curse, Cloak of Shadows, etc.) takes time for most Windows programs to process.

Edit (again): That is also something to take into consideration when doing your parses on your own spells, AAs and clicks will give you erroneous data unless you strip those casts from your logs prior to parsing.

[Xelgadis]

I do plan to parse a gig of logs for my sk, since I'm hearing complaints that they're fizzling more than 5% (hybrids don't get specialization).
Results of that parse: 4.79%

I didn't feel like pulling my logs from Christmas up, given how long it was taking to strip procs/innates out, so I only went back to May 10th, but it still gave me more than enough data to yield a pretty accurate result. That rate does fall within the stated range of 5% for non-specialization casters (and I dug up some very old logs of my necro and parsed them to be within 1.75-2.25%), so unless I see several parses (with very large data samples) stating otherwise, I think it's fairly safe to say that they're working correctly as stated.

To give an idea how far off spells that can't fizzle (AAs, clicks, etc) can make data; prior to stripping those spells from the log, my fizzle rate was 2.46%.

[Meph]

1 fizzle the whole night then 4 fizzles in row last night on Veldyn's shade 4tw. :/

[Xislaben]

1 fizzle the whole night then 4 fizzles in row last night on Veldyn's shade 4tw. :/

Heh I had a fellow necro fizzle Quivering Veil of Xarn last night!

It's a level 58 spell, and the AA works for spells under level 58, but man what a sucky spell to fizzle on!

I'd love it if SOE could carve out a fizzle exception to all spells over level 57 with a recast time greater than 9 ticks.

[Jebasiz]

I've asked Nodyin to review how mana recursion and blood magic play together. There's some glaring stacking issues between the two "buffs"...I'll post what he tells me..he said he'd check it tomorrow(wednesday).

[Meph]

Blood magic bounces alot for me lately. It seems any ATK buff on you makes it bounce. Might be more, had a bounce with 0 atk buffs with a bard singing only caster songs + aura.

[Jebasiz]

Blood magic bounces alot for me lately. It seems any ATK buff on you makes it bounce. Might be more, had a bounce with 0 atk buffs with a bard singing only caster songs + aura.

Hrm..if you can test/re-create this and give me the names of buffs, it'd help immensely.

[Lashden]

I'd check for Arcane Aria (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=8486&source=Live), it's the bard version of mana recursion from what I've seen. I can also say that (thankfully) bloodmagic will block Mana Recursion from landing once you have it on. I would have been really p.o.'d if a chanter overwrote it.

[Meph]

I'll play around with my bard & blood magic to try to figure out exact songs.

[Jebasiz]

There's a coder looking at this and it *may* be fixed next patch. "look for patch notes".