SOF robe clicks

[Jebasiz]

Post your info/suggestions.

I've already said "no" to anything pertaining to pets and pet buffs..figured no one would mind!

[Darkeeyes]

How about a Mind Wrack type, that way for all those whiners out there we can wrack during a fight without using up a spell gem or hurting our DPS. Thought something to add to our DPS would be the best, a good de-buff would also be handy. The ultimate though would be one that would send an across server tell to she who shall remain nameless to Die and go away forever.


Darkeeyes

[sbenchia]

Mindwrack is barely useful regardless of a spell slot. Would hate to waste a chest proc on it.

I think the anguish robe has the best click ever. Id rather see that re instituted to pre-nerf duration with perhaps a slightly longer recast.

Or maybe a click that adds 25 - 50% dmg per tick, rather than chance at critting.

I would want clicks along those lines.

[sbenchia]

Scratch that.

Pyro pants have the best click ever, but they have become nearly obsolete.

I would like to suggest clicky comparable to the pants, but with a more current dot. Pyre of fallen perhaps, if not DP.

=P

[Xatrekak]

yea im saying anguish all the way

[Lylith]

Mindwrack is barely useful regardless of a spell slot. Would hate to waste a chest proc on it.

I thinks Dark was kidding. =D


The ultimate though would be one that would send an across server tell to she who shall remain nameless to Die and go away forever.


Darkeeyes
No, it needs to say is my DPS showing yet? *evil grin*

A debuff might be nice. I rarely use so not to give up a spell slot. I like the 2nd best dot suggestion too /drool but, I doubt we'll get it. *sigh*

[Jebasiz]

I was thinking about a chaotic power(http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=10486&source=Live) clicky.

[Lashden]

I like the idea of chaotic power or even the gift of mana one (although that would suck because of the level caps, etc). A dot would be awesome, but I imagine it would come with a recast timer to make it nearly useless :( .

What about a DET Extension click that stacks with everything (worn)? I don't see how that could be overpowering, but having a double duration ashengate/dread pyre could definately be useful.

[FCseven]

chaotic power would be $$.A clicky rune would be nice like Wraithskin Rk. III also.

[Xatrekak]

oh a chaotic power clicky would be the win

[Feellia Flo]

Ditto to some sort of Chaotic Power click.

[Arkayn]

Chaotic power would be sweet $$

Something akin to OoW robe click would be nice too, but since thats in game already, not sure how overall beneficial it would be (to those who already have it anyway) would have to guess shared timers, no stacking etc..

So help me ill cry if we get another worthless pet click on our robe (and im not saying that particular click was worthless, which it was imo... but more that any robe with any kind of pet clicky on it is just wasteful for us)

increase MY dps please!

[sbenchia]

Only problem I have with chaotic power is that i wouldnt want it to be applicable for just 32 dot strikes or whatever it was worked out to be.

Being able to channel chaotic power at will is going to make it burn out awful fast (assuming that you fire it at max application).

Maybe they could bend this limitation for the clicky?

[Jebasiz]

chaotic power is very powerful..being able to rely on a proc would be one hell of an effect. Ever parse a chaotic power proc with intensity and/or glyph of destruction running(with 8 dots stacked on mob)? It'd give us a short duration guarenteed burn. Something, that IMO, we need.

[sbenchia]

I dont disagree with you at all.

It would just be nice if we could get a version that wasnt limited. The burst opportunity makes up for lack of effect in groups, but would nice to have that extra oomph for raids too.

Also, with all this attention on our dots - I think the time is nearly here when we get an AA that modifies per tick dmg instead of being limited to crit rate only.

When (if) that occurs, will the balance shift more toward the rate proc (anguish) effect becoming more vaulable than a margin proc?

This doesnt need to be addressed here, but I think it is worth considering.

Personally, I would like to see the choatic clicky introduced now. Then in future expansions we could lobby for extensions and/or updates to either or both.

Seems like a good long term plan to me.

[Xislaben]

CURSE OF MAYONG!

1: Critical DoT(60)
Duration: 6 ticks

Not sharing a recast timer with CoA BP!

[sbenchia]

and forgot to mention lvl caps.

That would limit the long term usefulness of these items. Somthing that rate mods dont currently suffer.

[Meph]

I give my vote to Chaotic power too, BUT we have to make sure it's has higher lvl cap than current spell else it's gonna get obsolete very fast unlike CoA robe.

Xis's idea looks sweet too, but i seriously doubt we'll ever get CoA robe upgrade.

Pyre of the Fallen as a clicky sounds be sweet too.

I could live with a mind wrack line or scent of XXX clicky too.

ANYTHING is better than pet proc buff i'll never, ever use.

Mayong & Sol Ro is one bitch of a fight and the reward for beating it and whole zone should be uber too ....or at least something RAID related and something we'll use.

[Aegrusnecrox]

Chaotic power, but not capped at the number of ticks.

-Egg

[Salnayil]

Chaotic Power or a CoA upgrade.

[damballa]

I like the idea of Chaotic Power also. I use Demand III whenever I can, the proc is a little to random but when it hits it is a nice dps boost (I have seen as much as 300 dps). I am just afraid they will make it a 2 hour recast or something stupid making it almost useless.

Chaotic power, casting time instant, duration 45 seconds, recast 15 min.

That I think would be reasonable, better start off asking for more since they will autonerf any suggestion that they actually consider.

-Dam

[Sivas]

Of the ideas I've seen here I like these the best, in order:

1) Chaotic power clicky.
2) Upgrade to Anguish robe clicky. Should NOT share timer with Anguish robe, but I don't expect them to stack.
3) Extended dot duration clicky.

One other important thing that I'd like to see is two tiers of the robe clicky like they did in OOW. I was able to get my Tier 1 clicky robe and loved it. It took 1.5 years before my guild was in Anguish and I got my Tier 2 clicky. I thought this was a nice way to give something useful but less powerful to more casual guilds/players (though it was a bit too rare, imho).

Sivas

[flishtaco]

Bah I got shamed into posting by Raydiant.

Anyway I generally agree with what you say Jeb so I read it go hmm he is doing good job doesnt need my feedback and move on.

So that is my feedback your doing a great job Jeb I like the idea and am in favor of it.

Larks VonCleef, 4+ years now as a necro 1700aa etc etc oh and I play on FV (played the game for about 8 years but didnt become a god until I made a necro =P)

[Jebasiz]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm glad you like the job I'm doing.

[Aegrusnecrox]

who doesn't like the job you're doing jeb.

speak up so that we may smite you down like the heathen you are.

-Egg

[Doc Hollidazed]

I don't like the job Jeb's doing, and can't say I envy him for taking it, the lizard is pretty okay though. ;)

[Jebasiz]

I don't like the job Jeb's doing, and can't say I envy him for taking it, the lizard is pretty okay though. ;)

You're never happy with anything...

[Doc Hollidazed]

You're never happy with anything...

Ignorance is bliss. If you are saying I lack bliss, thank you for the compliment, sir.

[Jebasiz]

Looks like the Curse of the Muram effect won..I forwarded it on to merloc and chatted briefly with him. He seemed to get much more agreeable with it when I mentioned "copy/paste" the anguish robe foci and change the level cap to 80. :p

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6406

Is the click, and again..cautious optimism. I'd assume, the higher the tier on the robe, the longer the duration.

[Meph]

Wow, uber news.

[Jebasiz]

It's nice to actually have good news to bring you, for once. It's not a concrete "this will happen"..but I did get a "seems reasonable" response, and a little dialog that has me optimistic.

[sbenchia]

No go on the chaotic proc?

[Aegrusnecrox]

no, instead we get the infinitely better Curse of Muram click.

-Egg

[sbenchia]

Why do you say infinitely better?

As far as I know, the anguish robe scales indefinitely. I thought the previous posts made convincing arguments that having a chaotic proc introduced would be more useful in that regard.

[Meph]

Chaotic power has a lvl cap thus it will become useless after some time. There's no such thing with bane of muram.

[sbenchia]

I understand that, but introducing a chaotic proc into the game seems like a better long term option.

I think my post was the first calling for a new muram proc, but after hearing other arguments and having more time reasoning it through im convinced the chaotic proc is better.

With the anguish robe already being relatively easily available, and scaling indefinitely, I think the chaotic proc would be a better "expansion" of power.

Not true expansion, because its not a new proc - but being able to control with that proc is available is very desireable for burst purposes.

I feel it would be better to introduce this click into the game, and use future expansions to petition for updating the click. Not really much of a reason to copy a click that scales without penalty. It seems by pushing muram, we are failing to capitalize on a great short and long term opportunity.

Im not in this beta, so I dont know what arguments have shaken out in the beta forums, but I was just a tiny bit disappointed that the muram proc is the direction we are moving towards.

sincerely,

Knutplate

[Xislaben]

I understand that, but introducing a chaotic proc into the game seems like a better long term option.

I think my post was the first calling for a new muram proc, but after hearing other arguments and having more time reasoning it through im convinced the chaotic proc is better.

Chaotic Power (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=10486&source=Live)
Max Hits: 25
Duration: 1 ticks @L1 to 10 ticks @L20
8 dots last 3.125 ticks

Curse of Muram (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6406&source=Live)
Duration: 6 ticks
8 dots last 6 ticks

[sbenchia]

Im not a newb, I understand the difference and the limitations on the chaotic proc, which I voiced concerns about earlier in this thread.

I think my point is being missed.

What good is a new Muram proc unless it has a higher crit rate?

If the rate or duration is increased on the new proc, then I can see where the gain is. But is it conceivable that any marginal increase is going to outweigh a controlled chaotic proc? I dont think so.

Since we already have a muram click available - I see the bigger gain coming from having a controllable chaotic proc.

In conjunction with the anguish robe, it seems like a more powerful choice and a much more effective tool for burst situations.

[Meph]

Not everyone has CoA robe tho. I was lucky to get mine when we raided CoA but few necros in guild still miss it. And loosing 50th roll in a row on CoA pick up ain't really most fun.

[sbenchia]

Granted, but as time goes on it will become easier to do with fewer people. Especially with the level increases.

Plus you have to take into consideration that new robes will trickle in slowly into the game for the first year. Im not sure that its going to increase availability when compared to how much more accessible anguish is.

If its not too late, then I would appeal to the powers that be. I think a chaotic proc would be much wiser selection. If that option even exists.

[Jebasiz]

I just asked for what you all told me you wanted. It's not a "given" that we'll get anything. It's just a "starting off point" for merloc and the other developers. It's nice to see they want our input and hopefully we'll end up with one or the other.

If all you're going to do is go back and fourth arguing about why this or that was submitted(they both were- muram and cp), I'll just lock the thread.

If you have other suggestions, you have until October 18th to post them. I suggest you go this route vice arguing.

[sbenchia]

If all you're going to do is go back and fourth arguing about why this or that was submitted(they both were- muram and cp), I'll just lock the thread.

If you have other suggestions, you have until October 18th to post them. I suggest you go this route vice arguing.

First off, I imagine youre pretty stressed being in the thick of beta, and I have 100% faith that youre doing a great job. I cant think of a single thing that I have been disappointed with since youve taken over.

Having said that, I thought the point of this thread - and the website for that matter - was to solicit and foster discussion. Nothing so far seems to suggest anything except for respectful exhange of ideas on which would be better a better proc. In fact, I think it is right in line with the spirit of your directive to post suggestions until oct 18th.

If this beta is anything like the previous betas, then I imagine the SOE forums are very chaotic (subliminal message) and hostile. That environment hasnt infected this thread and as such, there is really no need lock it. Even threatening to do so from what we have seen in this thread is a bizarre and inequitable response.

I just asked for what you all told me you wanted. It's not a "given" that we'll get anything. It's just a "starting off point" for merloc and the other developers. It's nice to see they want our input and hopefully we'll end up with one or the other.

I agree.

It is very nice to see devs looking at feedback. I dont think anyone feels like anything has been promised. I certainly dont. Soon beta will be over and everything will be locked in place. We all take the time to weigh in because we want to contribute to the process, and not be bystanders who complain after the fact.

[Xislaben]

Im not a newb, I understand the difference and the limitations on the chaotic proc, which I voiced concerns about earlier in this thread.

I think my point is being missed.

What good is a new Muram proc unless it has a higher crit rate?

If the rate or duration is increased on the new proc, then I can see where the gain is. But is it conceivable that any marginal increase is going to outweigh a controlled chaotic proc? I dont think so.

Since we already have a muram click available - I see the bigger gain coming from having a controllable chaotic proc.

In conjunction with the anguish robe, it seems like a more powerful choice and a much more effective tool for burst situations.

You're right, if it's just a carbon copy of the CoA click then it's not as good as a CP click as it's doing nothing for anybody with a coa bp, though it would still be better than a cp click for anybody without a coa bp imho. Ideally though it'd have a higher crit %, or last longer, or my favorite which is having it not share a recast timer with the CoA BP.

It's just easier getting devs to do things when it's a matter of copying an existing item and tweeking it. That's much less work than coming up with something all new and different, and hopefully the tweeking will make the item very much desirable. If the click was identical in all but say name with the CoA BP that would be very depressing.

[sbenchia]

Or worst case scenario, they decide to copy muram and introduce lvl caps to both OoW and SoF versions.

[Jebasiz]

I haven't seen anything 'new' get suggested in several pages of this thread. What I have is, why do we get "x" instead of "y". I asked for suggestions when I damn well knew what would come up ahead of time, anyway. I'm not looking for arguments of "X" is > "Y"..I'm looking for "Z". If you have another suggestion, go ahead and post it. If you want to debate why X is or isn't > "Y"..do it somewhere else. This is suppose to be a concise, and on topic thread full of suggestions. Not a "I'm not a newb, post your magelo, you don't raid enough to matter" thread.

[Xislaben]

How about a clicky that reduces spell refesh (of the spell gems only) to 0.1 seconds, for a duration of 10 ticks? This would have a relatively minor effect on DPS over time, but it would allow us to stack our dot line-up very quickly and get out of the build up phase of dpsing.

How about a clicky that increased mana pool and decreased hp at a set number, self only. Like -5k hp + 5k mana, 15min reuse etc.

[FCseven]

I wouldent mind a new bp with the anguish clicky on it,it would free up an inventory spot,at this point anything that frees a slot is woth it to have.

[Meph]

How about a clicky that reduces spell refesh (of the spell gems only) to 0.1 seconds, for a duration of 10 ticks? This would have a relatively minor effect on DPS over time, but it would allow us to stack our dot line-up very quickly and get out of the build up phase of dpsing.

How about a clicky that increased mana pool and decreased hp at a set number, self only. Like -5k hp + 5k mana, 15min reuse etc.

Is it even possible to modify spell refresh timer via buff/spell? I bet it's hardcoded Sounds interesting but i have my doubts it's possible.

Good idea for a new aa line tho.

[Jebasiz]

Is it even possible to modify spell refresh timer via buff/spell? I bet it's hardcoded Sounds interesting but i have my doubts it's possible.

Good idea for a new aa line tho.
It isn't possible according to merloc. Perhaps with a code change, but there's probably not time for that this time around.

[Khyandys]

Once upon a time, there was a bug with clicky-items that caused instant refresh of spell gems simply by clicking any insta-cast item between spells. I'm kinda inclined to believe that they could reproduce that in a controlled manner if they wanted to, but that's just me and my craziness. Wouldn't blame them for not wanting to attempt it.

[Xislaben]

A clicky similar to blood magic could be interesting.

Either fuel spells from HP, or let it just be a dot that takes hp and gives mana every tick and stacks with lich/clikcies/direwild/spiritual enlightenment etc.

[Rorthoz]

yea my sow clickie boots on my shaman roxord years ago.

[Cethena]

I think a clicky group tap (i.e. Night Stalker) would be nice. it would be nice for grouping and raids, but it def needs to be better than night stalker. The other thing that I think would be pimp would be a clicky "super lich" That doubles lich mana regen rate for like one minute or so. That would be pimp.

[Jebasiz]

A temporary mana surge won't increase our dps. We *shouldn't* have mana problems. Sacrificing a dps enhancing clicky for what would be a be a barely noticeable mana surge(if they gave a "super lich" to us it wouldn't be good enough to make a huge difference), possibly prolonging our dps by another cast or 2. I don't think what they'd give us outweighs a dmg enhancing ability.

The group tap over time..I tried to get us a large one through AA. Prathun said he doesn't see us playing a significant role in that area of the game. Again, if we got one, it'd be largely insignificant...that or they'd make other HoT's over-write it...which doesn't happen to the weak group taps we have now.

If magnitude wasn't a barrier, these would be really good ideas. The skeptic in me is hesitant to forward them on due to a not so stellar track record that SoE has with giving us what we ask for..but then making it/them so insignificant that it's useless.

[Aegrusnecrox]

Now that I have my anguish robe clickie, i have decided to change my stance.

Chaotic Power with no limit on number of dot ticks, lasts 36 seconds.

-Egg

P.S. Stacks with anguish robe clicky, of course.

[Jebasiz]

If it's chaotic power, it's chaotic power. Not chaotic power and...They've both been suggested, I'll try and talk to merloc about it this week. No promises, we're both pretty busy.

[Meph]

Now that I have my anguish robe clickie, i have decided to change my stance.

Chaotic Power with no limit on number of dot ticks, lasts 36 seconds.

-Egg

P.S. Stacks with anguish robe clicky, of course.

You know they won't make a "no limit" version.

I don't care what we get personaly. I have my CoA robe, but i do know that 2 of my guild necros are desperate for one since ages but can't get it these days and that another source of the clicky would be uber.

[321DOT]

My vote would be the chaotic feedback also, I think that is the best use of a clicky currently

[Xislaben]

A temporary mana surge won't increase our dps. We *shouldn't* have mana problems. Sacrificing a dps enhancing clicky for what would be a be a barely noticeable mana surge(if they gave a "super lich" to us it wouldn't be good enough to make a huge difference), possibly prolonging our dps by another cast or 2. I don't think what they'd give us outweighs a dmg enhancing ability.

Blood Magic lets you cast for more than a tick or two, it's at least 30 to 45 seconds and then however long you can cast from all the mana you regenerated in that time. While I'd certainly rather have a dps mod, anything that increases the duration of my dps would be a second best choice imho. There's several events now where I can run OOM burning mobs, Solteris 1, 2, 4, and 7 even not even using fire dots.

[Jebasiz]

Fire lands on mayong, silly noamy.

Extending our dps, IMO should come from an improved lich..not gear. For the simple fact that EVERY necro should be able to sustain dot stacking. If some don't have a little more dps every now and then, not a huge deal..it's not class defining, or at least it's not part of our definition.

I really wish I could sit prathun, nodyin and merloc down all at once for 10mins and talk to them about it, bringing up issues to each of them separately is failing us, and that's really what it comes down to. Blood magic is extremely good in eliminating the OOM, from solteris 1, 2 and 4..I'm not sure I'd want to use it on 7 due to the potential for ae damage. That's where staunch recovery and kiss erollisi is really nice(yes, I realize that those 2 items/tools should not be taken into account when discussing mana and when/where/if we run short..and needing them displays a breakdown in where our lich falls short).

[Xislaben]

Fire lands on mayong, silly noamy.

Ya but if you're on Sol Ro it don't, and the point was you can still run OOM there without using the big dots.

[Gevath]

I vote for DoT clicky. Something like Dagger of Death, or the Time pants. I never did get that Arcstone Robe clicky to drop, but needs to be something that can be clicked from inventory so when this expansion is old and outdated, it can fill a slot in my backpack.

I new Corruption spell (specific to the new robe only) would rock arse, since it will only go to top end guilds for the next few years. Might even call it Robe of Corruption.

Otherwise maybe a poison clicky like Choas Venom, or Corath Venom since we don't have a poison clicky I know of.

anyhoo, that's my two coppers

[Jebasiz]

Locking thread, Deadline for submissions was like October 18th or something.