Necros as a pulling class.

[FCseven]

I was thinking about this after a group was trying to use me a puller in Gyrospire Beza.Our target was the mob who drops the document or page thing for some quest (MMM or Crystallos access,I forget).

The zone has a ton of see invis mobs and they are packed like sardines.I got the group somewhat deep inside but was killed not even 1/4th of the way.To make a long story short we ended up getting a bard to pull for us and he smoked my feeble attempts at getting the group to this mob.

I thought it over and came to the conclusion if we as necros are to be at least an optional puller we need some new tools.Ever since run8 was introduced as an aid to monks and bards pulling I felt necros and sks were left out as an oversight.This would help in some zones but it still is not enough in my opinion.What we need is a faster casting snare.If we had a snare that was 1/2 seconds like death peace we could do alot better as pullers.I don't believe a half second snare AA would be an unreasonable request.

The mobs these days are running faster and hitting harder then ever.It dosen't help we move slow as slime and are made of glass.

[barallron]

I dont mind pulling but i honestly do not want to be known as a puller. If that was the case id reroll a bard or monk. More and more i get group offers to pull bloodmoon, beza, and everything in between.

Necro pulling works but is slow and doesn't allow me to afk like i want to :eek:

[Lylith]

bard fade ftw!

Seriously, I thought necros pulling was old school in most situations because of agro control. I hate having to FD every other cast because of hate ( I only have SCS3, because I don't group much.) Let someone else start at top of the hate list and me stay down a bit of the way.

Because we're situational pullers, I don't see much value in have a DEV put a lot of attention to it. Now, if you add to it say rogue pulling which used to be pretty nifty and have them look at all pulling classes, that's ok. I'd rather devote less cast time for DDs so on short fights we're not playing like mage wanna bes.

[Sokrat]

personaly just want they give us the pet green pull again .

[DeadLikeMe]

I don't jump at the chance to pull, but I can't stand it when the group sits around cause we still need a puller.

I really wish they would improve our undead slow. Again, not cool when I see "any slowers want to come to crypt/graveyard in HoS?" in guild chat from one of the group. Or when they ask me over and over if I'm slowing, am I sure the spell is landing, and then load an alt shammy to come slow out of group.

Sorry for the derail. Was just thinking how I would like to be improved to be more effective in groups.

[solithan]

Well as for our pulling abilities they arn't too awful but since the nerf of the pet pull we just arn't too desired due to the fact we're slow. The quicker FD helps a tiny bit but what would be nice is a faster way to drop all Aggro so we can pop back up. A pacify might also be nice to assist in spliting/obtaining single pulls.

I pulled beza a few times and largely used my pet+eye scout. Wasn't too bad but required a fair amount of room to work and was slow so it only got us so far before we got respawns.

[Pharren]

I really wish they would improve our undead slow. Again, not cool when I see "any slowers want to come to crypt/graveyard in HoS?" in guild chat from one of the group. Or when they ask me over and over if I'm slowing, am I sure the spell is landing, and then load an alt shammy to come slow out of group.

bitchslap these clowns with a link to lucy.allakhazam.com

shaman slow = 75%
necro slow = 70%

probably not even noticeable without parsing. and its always been my understanding that slow mitigation is basically just a cap on how much the mob can be slowed. say for example on the highest level of slow mitigation that the cap is 20%... if this were the case it wouldnt matter if you used shackle of spirit (70%) or shackle of bone (35%) because of the mitigation. however, i might be wrong about this, since its been a long time since i gave a shit.

[scrat]

I've always felt that getting mobs to drop aggro when feigned faster would be the most optimal pull tool increase we could get. Having to wait 2 minutes every time things go wrong (and they go wrong alot for me) is just boring & highly annoying. And it sure doesn't impress the group with necro pull skillz. I would give up a molar or two if it would give FD a 20% chance to immediately drop all aggro.

However, a AA version of snare (if instant cast and very short recast) would go a long ways to mitigate the problem - even if the snare was short duration, 30 seconds.

Flop, wait for fd refresh, stand/snare/flop, wait for fd refresh, stand/snare/flop - could get 2-4 mobs snared pretty quick for splitting & control yet require constant attention & application of darkness with a quickness to stay alive.

Another thing that would be handy is a self rune that actually performs as it's name implies. So would improved pet feign @ 98% reliability and functional aggro dump.

Currently, any group that asks me to dungeon pull for them in SoF zones is one sad, sad group.

[solithan]

and its always been my understanding that slow mitigation is basically just a cap on how much the mob can be slowed.

Not to derail the conversation but I was under the impression that it was a reduction factor on the slow that was cast.

Fully~100%
Mostly~75%
Partially ~25%
Slightly~10%
Immune~0%

So (if you get slightly) 10% of 70(necro) vs 10% of 75(shaman)
This encourages you to always use your best slow. But I agree the difference in 5% even mitigated shouldn't really be noticable.

[Pharren]

I was under the impression that it was a reduction factor on the slow that was cast.
i thought so too, but at the time, when they introduced that mechanic, all the shamans i asked said it was a limit on the amount a mob could be slowed. that was like 20 years ago so perhaps they have been proven wrong since then :P if anyone knows for sure, or has a link to a chart or anything without having to search for it, then by all means post or PM it to me please. im interested, but not interested enough to go look for myself (i dont play my shaman anymore)

/derail off

[mordsith]

I agree that to make necro's pulling worthwhile to groups you would need
"mobs to drop aggro when feigned faster" as an earlier poster suggested. This sure wouldn't make necro uber pullers as likely they aren't intended to be, but would make them somewhat effective to groups in a pinch. Bards pullers ftw of course!

As far as gyrospire beta is concerned there are ways to pull the document mob down without a billion other mobs (will be at least a few). One way is to target the mob using an eye and send a pet (green?) at it as far aways as possible and when its after you, run to the ground and feign and let someone else re-tag when the document mob is somewhat available. That cleaning? mass thingie is nasty! and usually comes...

Cheers!

Mordsith
80 necro

[Desh]

Some places are quite necro pullable. For example, temple in Frostcrypt has plenty of room once you get a couple mobs down and you can keep the pulls rolling as fast as anyone. Rather than traditional FD splitting, snare a mob and let the add come to the group, then FD or run the snared one around until the other one is dead.

Beza isn't the worst but it can be extremely slow going, splitting a really full room with almost no space. Add the fast respawn and necro pulling can be more or less unworkable. IMO the best pulling tool is something that would allow for fast aggro dropping. I'd like an AA that is basically a bard fade. Lets say that it can only be used while FD, and maybe make it require some mana or have a fairly short reuse timer.

Also, a snare with a better resist mod, faster cast time, shorter duration would be very useful.

[spoonr79]

With SoF, bards got an AA mez (Dirge of the Sleepwalker)... Instant cast, 10 min refresh, lasts for 1 minute, and never resisted (in my experience). Something like this as an AA snare would be a step in the right direction for necros.

I'd also like to see some AAs to reduce the amount of time it takes for mobs to forget about you. I think instant is too much, and you'd prolly never get the devs to go for it, but 30 seconds or so seems reasonable to me.

[Todwelt]

I would give up a molar or two if it would give FD a 20% chance to immediately drop all aggro.

However, a AA version of snare (if instant cast and very short recast) would go a long ways to mitigate the problem - even if the snare was short duration, 30 seconds.

I believe that FD already has an innate 20% chance to wipe all agro. When soloing and I get a resisted snare on a split, I end up doing the flop/wait for FD to refresh/flop/repeat until all agro is dropped. Usually takes about 5 tries but no more than 10 before the OOC countdown starts …. Clear indication of agro being dropped fully. This does not always work in a dungeon crawl or pulling for a group. So if we can get that 20% innate chance upped somehow it would be an asset to pulling. Now an AA, 2 minute duration, no damage snare I would probably give a molar or two for.

As far as gyrospire beta is concerned there are ways to pull the document mob down without a billion other mobs (will be at least a few). One way is to target the mob using an eye and send a pet (green?) at it as far aways as possible and when its after you, run to the ground and feign and let someone else re-tag when the document mob is somewhat available

There were multiple nerfs to the document droppers in beza and zeka. First they were changed so that the mobs in the spires assisted them. The second, most recent nerf being that they are now leashed to their room. So pulling them to the bottom no longer works and one must crawl up into the spires to get them.

[Ecol]

I don't want necros to become pullers but in the event there is no puller available I am willing to shed my blood for some xp. /2cp off

[Vivamort]

If the mobs you are splitting do not see invis/itu you can instantly drop aggro with FD, if you have someone cast invis on you while you are FDed.

Something about the mechanics of going from Indifferent from FD, to being Indifferent from being invised, stops the check to see if the mob still has aggro on you when you stand up. Resulting in 100% chance of the mob forgetting you.

This also works the same way with our (or any) Mez. When a mob is mezzed it is indifferent, if you are FDed (or invised for non see invis mobs) when mez wears off there is 100% chance the mob forgot you.

Dark Elves can do this by themselves with limited success with their inate (but very low) hide skill. If you successfully hide while FD (you won't know if you were successful or not because you will always see the parenthsis around your own name - but a box or other person in your group can look, and if you have the parenthsis around your name you were sucessful as they will only see them if you were indeed successful in your hide), you can stand up with 100% chance of the mob forgetting you.

All the above assumes the mobs don't see invis, and they don't reaggro because the mob you have snared was close enough to pass aggro when you stood up, and your DoT ticked again. It might work on see-invis mobs too that are out of aggro range when you stand up(the switching from FD indifferent to invis indifferent mechanic that stops the check of reaggroing even though the mob wouldn't normally be fooled by invis), but I would bet against it, I will try when I get back on line in a week or so, if someone else doesn't find out and post first.

Hope that helps some of your pulling predicament.

[flishtaco]

Heh Raydiant has taught me some new tricks pulling, some of you probably already know them but, pet sight graft with a fd able pet or eyes to get your target, send in a regular pet let it die pop DA let mob warp to you jump down tighten the pack with a couple of laps snare it and FD. He still does most of the work in getting the targets, then tells me what my target is but its fun, if slow, and lets you cherry pick if you know the phs. On names you still need beef and a cleric though as I dont think any SoF named mob can be snared and they all summon.

Larks

That being said I would love to have run 8