AA xp curve?

[GnekroeGnomicon]

So I read this thread:
http://www.eqcleric.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11786

Regarding a bonus to aaxp that was apparently implemented in the spring. Did this go live? If so, how does it really work.

The reason I ask is duoing my bard with 50 aas and Gnek now at 650aas, they gain aa at the same rate - where as looking at the bonus chart the bard should be recieving close to ~75-100% more aa xp than Gnek does per kill. The bard being very close to the higher end of the curve and Gnek closing in on the end of the bonus.

I guess the long of the short is that I don't see it working unless Gnek nearing the end of the bonus is still receiving a ridiculously high bonus (which would be against how they are describing it working).

[solithan]

They gain XP at the same rate??? hmm. Are they both the same level?
Do the following test, solo kill 1 mob with bard, note the xp. Then solo kill the same mob with the other toon and note the xp. They should be different.
Yes this went live.

Its possible its bugged currently but the toon with fewer AAs should be gaining AA xp quicker.

p.s. do test without being grouped and with aa xp 100%

[solithan]

Here is a big cut and paste from all the relevant posts I could find on the matter.

This should be live as of April 17, 2008
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Here are a few important milestone amounts from the data currently on Test.

A few notes before we get to the data:


The curve is not linear so gaining 5 AA at one point may change the exp multiplier a LOT to start with but very little at the end of the curve.
These numbers are subject to change based on tuning and data we may gather from Test
The values are expressed as a percentage where 100% is "normal" AA exp gains - I.E. what you would see on Live right now before the changes.
AA_Earned counts both spent and banked AA

AA_EARNED PERCENT_TO_AWARD
5 225
220 200.287
420 150.789
750 100



100 + 125 cos^2 (AA*pi/1500)
seems to be a pretty good approximation of the curve up to 750 AAs.

200.2874447 (rounds to 200.287) with 220 AAs.
150.7886678 (rounds to 150.789) with 420 AAs.
100 with 750 AAs.

The only one that doesn't quite fit is 5 AAs; I suspect the multipler is fixed at 225% for the first few AAs.

That's a pretty accurate representation of the curve we're aiming for.

The bonus multipliers change every 5 AAs until you reach the base rate of 100%. As an example, you'll get a 225% bonus to AA experience until you gain the 5th AA, at which point that bonus will drop to 224.986% and will remain as such until you get the 10th AA, where it'll drop to 224.945 (and so forth).



AAxp is based on the /con of the mob to the highest level group member, so if the mobs were grey to the level 77 character, neither of you will get AAxp.

It's different from regular XP in that regard.



Going live today (april 17 patch)

April 17, 2008


Here's a sneak peek at Thursday's Game Update. Please note that changes may or may not be made to these before the servers reopen.



*** Highlights ***

- The 10th Veteran Reward, Summon Resupply Agent, is now available!

- Alternate Advancement experience has been accelerated significantly for those with fewer AAs spent and will scale back down to the normal rate as more AAs are earned.

- Many keyed zones from the Ruins of Kunark, Scars of Velious, Shadows of Luclin, Planes of Power, Gates of Discord, Omens of War, Depths of Darkhollow, and Prophecy of Ro have had their key/flag requirements modified. All players that have obtained the key/flag will still be allowed entry into the zones, as will players that have met minimum level requirements for the zones. The zones and minimum level requirements are as follows...............

[Lylith]

I would not compare the 2 characters per se. The 'bonus' is the net exp you would have from the kill amplified by the scale rate they list because you have low AAs.

The post at that site is much more confusing than what the DEVs said on the soe vet boards. I'd suggest reading that forum thread instead.

I wish it had been implimented when I came back last year after a break and had less than 120 AAs at level 67. At 1100+ AAs, it means nothing to me. On my alt I don't see any noticable difference. It maybe there, but you really don't see the exp jump up per kill like burning lesson. I'd put it at maybe 20% increase, not 225% -even if that's the numbers they claim.

[solithan]

Its roughly double speed for those below 500. But its not as easily compareable unless you had solid metrics for how long it took you to gain an AA before the change. If you were grinding up AAs around 250, solo in march and it took you 1hr to get an 1AA it should only take you 30mins now.

[Lylith]

I'm just going by my rogue exp for AAs pre-change vs. after.

It's not noticeable, not to say it doesn't exist mathematically.

Level 68 killing in LP with full group, exp on 90% for AAs. I went from 6 AA to 81 AAs there in a few weeks. The exp gain really feels the same. Maybe it's more noticable solo because you get more bang (exp) for your buck.

[solithan]

Solo is the truest measure because the make up of the group can change and the kill rate can go down or up. Also if you arn't all the same level the AA xp can change based on that, even if its only 1 person.

The reason that when you do a "lesson burn" it seems noticable is, its easy to see because you have current before and after data of the same setting. With the change you often have to remember back.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

They gain XP at the same rate??? hmm. Are they both the same level?Well, I have the 65 bard at 10/90 and 75 nec at 0/100. They both earn just over 3 aa's an hour grouped. Eyeballing the per kill aaxp gain the difference between the two would appear to be right on the mark with the bard having a 10/90 split -- the bard ends an hour session with 3 aas and Gnek is a bit over 3 aas. The xp gain is so constant it is very predicatable. Gnek pings, then next kill bard pings.

Due to the conning system I am killing yellow cons to the nec, which should give an equal yellow con in aaxp to the bard (minus 10%).

If there was a bonus, the bard should be seeing closer to 6 aa's an hour to the nec's 3. Doing ~50aas together the bard should have an appreciable difference in gained aa's over the nec while the difference is actually only a couple (which probably can be attributed to the split, and the couple times I burned lotd on the nec while group (which gains a whole ~1.5 aas during that session)).

Also if you arn't all the same level the AA xp can change based on that, even if its only 1 person. I didn't think this mattered since aaxp in a group distributed through the group is measured vs the highest toon's con to the mob. E.g. what is yellow to Gnek at 75 is red to the bard at 65 yet the bard nets a yellow cons aaxp value. Is that not how the "new" aaxp system works?

Could the 10/90 xp/aa split actually stop the bonus from being applied (e.g. it isn't applied unless 100% to aaxp)?

What I would expect to see (eyeballing the bonus percentages since I don't want to break out my sci calc) -- Bard should be gaining 10/(90% * 2.15) and Gnek should be gaining 0/(100% * 1.10). That should be a large difference, when in reality if there is a difference it is entirely negligable.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Put the bard to 0/100 and now it looks like there is a bonus being applied. Not quite 2x Gnek's, but noticeably faster... wish I had done that for the first 50... /sigh.

[Mardag]

Pre exp change my Druid got 16% for a yellow solo. After change my Necro gets 32% since hes under 250AA so there is definetely a noticable bonus. My Necro is at 248AA so I expect it to drop quite a bit in 2AA but will still be a bonus for the first 750 unless Sony makes additional changes.

[Drazzminius]

When this first went into play, I was still 69 hunting Murks in NC. I was pulling about 8% AAXP per kill before the curve went into play and after the patch, I was pulling a solid 17% per kill. All kills with Drazz are solo and without any bots, so I was able to make the solid comparison. Now at 71, I'm pulling about 35-40% AAXP per kill in Icefall off of the Blood Red Elder Dire Wolves... And that's WITHOUT the LotD running. I pulled 5 AA earlier in the 30 min LotD ran through. DEFINITE difference with the curve.

I'm at just under 200 right now, so I'm sure I'll see a difference once I hit 250...

[solithan]

Ok so there is perhapse a problem with not going 100%AAxp? I would supose this is easily testable. Just Kill at 100% note the amount then drop to 90% and if it falls off drastically then there could be an issue.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Yes, that is my findings. It is double the aaxp per kill at 0%/100% compared to 10%/90%. Given that the bard is at the lower end of aa's the bonus is extremely noticeable.

[Drazzminius]

I don't think I've ever had my AAXP bar set at 100%. The above increase I mentioned was with a 30/70% split (the 70% going to AAXP).

Still chugging along...

I'll put the meter at 100% and see what kind of a difference I get at level 71.

[Todwelt]

With a 10 level difference between the two toons, the AAXP distribution is fuxxored. The split is not what is killing the bards AAXP, its the level difference. Gnek is taking most of the xp. If you were to switch over to 100% regular xp on the bard, you will notice that he will get ALOT of regular xp, iirc. But once you put the bards on AA's, all that xp goes away into the black hole of EQ XP coding.

Would have to find it on the sony boards but I think I remember the Dev's stating that there was something screwed up i nthe way AAXP was split when there was a substantial level difference within a group.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

But literally the difference between a 10/90 split and 0/100 is double the aaxp gain. The bard is gaining ~20% aaxp per kill grouped now, where as previously he was gaining around 10%. While Gnek is gaining right around 10% per kill grouped (same mobs ~18% solo).

With that finding it would appear to me that it isn't the aaxp formula but perhaps either the aaxp bonus isn't being applied or because of the level difference with some xp going to regular somehow the level difference eats up the bonus (e.g. it is being applied but perhaps the level difference is then taking a chunk out of it).

Regular experience bard is gaining 1.5-2% a kill. He is level 66 now, going to bring him up to 70 again before I do more aa's just as a break and then he can finally get a dot amplifying spell worth a darn (well worth anything to Gnek who doesn't cast any dots under 69 now).

[Vanlor]

I think it would be interesting to find out how much aaxp your bard would get solo killing the same mobs (if he can). That might shed some more light on the situation.

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I will do a test of it tonight if I can get the time, I may need to get his more modern dot songs though -- never needed them :p Though I suppose I could do all the damage with Gnek and then levant at the last moment. I am guessing that would give the bard full xp?

[Drazzminius]

I went ahead and put my XP Meter at full (100%) AAXP last night to check this. As a soloer, I noticed a difference, but not incredibly huge (I had originally been hunting at 70%AAXP/30%RegXP). I would have to say that Todwelt is correct in his post and the difference you are seeing is most likely due to the level split of your two characters.

No idea on the Levant question... Never box. :cool:

[GnekroeGnomicon]

I would have to say that Todwelt is correct in his post and the difference you are seeing is most likely due to the level split of your two characters. While this would make sense, but why would there be a dramatic difference in 10/90 versus 0/100 if it is the level difference affecting aaxp? Maybe it is just a Monday for me :) but that would seem to indicate that it isn't the level difference being applied unless the level difference is only applied when some % is going to regular xp.

[Jebasiz]

I'm just going by my rogue exp for AAs pre-change vs. after.

It's not noticeable, not to say it doesn't exist mathematically.

Level 68 killing in LP with full group, exp on 90% for AAs. I went from 6 AA to 81 AAs there in a few weeks. The exp gain really feels the same. Maybe it's more noticable solo because you get more bang (exp) for your buck.

All groups are not created equal.

If someone groups with 5 people from my guild and 5 people from aeg's..the exp is going to be vastly different(no offense aeg). It can be same zone and mobs..it's all in kill rate imo.

[encephalitis]

I have noticed that if I go 100% reg exp on my mid 60s alts when they are grouped, they gain 1-2% reg exp. Then when I switch to aaxp (if Enc is doing aaxp) their exp slows dramatically. How do I know it is slower than normal? I have those alts solo mobs that naturally give them 1-2% reg exp when solo, then flip on the aaxp to 100%.

A mob that gives my bard, for example, 1% reg exp, will typically give in the 15-20% range of aaxp for the same kill. If I'm grouped with Enceph, and Enceph is doing 100% aaxp, I can basically choose between 1% reg exp for my bard if I go 100% regular and about 11-12% aaxp. So, to me, it seems like the rules for exp gain as well as exp sharing not only take into consideration the level of the mob relative to the highest member of your group (I tested yellow to Enceph grouped versus yellow to bard solo), but also whether or not that highest level character is on 100% aaxp or 100% regular exp.

[Drazzminius]

t can be same zone and mobs..it's all in kill rate imo.I think we are talking on individual kills; not rate of returns. Of course, I am probably wrong, LOL.

What I found last night was that I was pulling ~24% AAXP per kill with my meter set at 70/30 and ~32% AAXP per kill with it set at 100/0. Granted, there is always the variance of the Mob level (almost everything is red to me at 71 in Icefall, ROFL), and such, but it seemed to be consistent with the percentages for my soloing efforts.

[Todwelt]

Due to the level difference and the AAXP split being fuxxored because of that, when you have the xp split between regular and AA, being fuxxored, most of the split xp would go to reg xp instead of AAXP. That would be my explanation on the difference between being split xp or straight AAXP. It only with large (>5) level differences between group members and AAXP.

Chalk it up to fuxxored verant/sony xp coding

[GnekroeGnomicon]

Yeah that makes sense that the it would get screwed by the level difference when some of the xp is going to regular xp. Stupidly screwed but screwed nonetheless.