SCS and Silent Casting

[Vanlor]

I was looking to get some feeback on these two lines now that they work.

Lately, especially in Crystallos where mobs actually have enough hp to dot, I have been pulling lots of aggro. I FD religiously. However, if I have 5/6 dots ticking and stand to cast a longer spell (SoB/Vivi) I can pull aggro mid-cast if the tank isn't amazing and the tics land wrong. I figure that some of this may be the result of not having any SCS. As the description states, and I understand, it only reduces the aggro generated by the act of casting, not by damage.

My question: How significant is the aggro reduction from SCS? Also, after that, is Silent Casting worth the AAs? (I currently sit at near 750. Magelo is fairly accurate)

It seems that the mob always turns after a tic, so I assume that the majority of my aggro is being generated by pure damage. This, again, brings up the question of whether the aggro is truely (as stated) based off only base dot damage. I am beginning to question that statement more. I have a Druid friend that wants me to try to test it with him lol. I dunno if I will, I am lazy and it sounds like a pita to get definitive evidence.

Appreciate feedback :)

[Ultulus]

ermm I noticed a huge difference... so I think it might be all spell related damage.

[Vanlor]

uh, i think you missed the point lol.

The description for SCS says "make NPCs notice your magical activities... less" I had thought that that meant casting only and not actual dmg done.

[Sarnath Creed]

SCS effects the ammount of hate a spell generates when the spell LANDS on a npc, it does not effect the damage per tick of that spell for dots.

The ammount of hate generated per tick of a dot is the ammount of damage that dot deals that tick.

[Todwelt]

And although the Dev's stated differently, I swear dot crits add hate. Nothing like getting Dots running, FD'ing successfully, clicking the CoA robe and getting summoned two ticks later. Kinda hard to prove with DoT crits though.

And since SCS does not work on subsequent dot ticks, I still don't have it. Although I do wish that silent casting was split from SCS for an AA purchse.

[Vanlor]

So SCS reduces the hate from landing a spell? I am guessing that that is all? If so... my problem with pulling aggro is even more the tanks fault than I had thought. Is Silent Casting more of a worthwhile buy then?

[Aegrusnecrox]

All of this is incorrect.

A few months back the devs tweaked Spell Casting Subtlety so that it also reduces aggro generated from damage done by dots. So, in short, Spell Casting Subtlety does affect dot ticks.

Silent Casting may or may not, ask jeb he knows for certain, since he was the one who was in communication with the devs when this fix was introduced.

-Egg

[Ultulus]

I concur with Aeg's statement.

[Pharren]

me too. and i dont think they ever fixed silent casting. its garbage anyways, only lasts like 30 seconds... i think ive used it twice just because i had it and didnt feel like id wasted the AAs.

[solithan]

How long are you staying down while FD? Do you just hit the ground and get back up or do you actually wait there a tick?
I think I have 1 rank of SCS and I never have this aggro issue, unless the tank sucks super bad. Maybe you just way out parse me...Shrug..

[scrat]

The Egg has it.

A while back just after SCS got fixed for DoTs, Xislaben created a really informative thread complilation that can pretty much answer any aggro & aggro management questions you might have - and it's right here (http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=9044&highlight=spell+casting+subtlety).

One of the original questions - is SCS significant? Yes, it certainly is. I bought through rank3 just to open up silent casting for the occasional raid I might attend - and I'll never buy another rank of it because it cost me solo dps via forced delay on sending pet to attack. I don't know how many pets I've lost getting one-rounded on their opening attack because I sent it in before I got enough dps laid to counter freakishly random weapon/innate procs.

[Vanlor]

Why should I have to stay down a tick? I understand that if I wait until a tic, then stand I will have more time before I am back going on aggro, but doesn't FD wipe you down to 1 or whatever immediately?

Edit: Meant to quote Solithan

[Ultulus]

Why should I have to stay down a tick? I understand that if I wait until a tic, then stand I will have more time before I am back going on aggro, but doesn't FD wipe you down to 1 or whatever immediately?

Edit: Meant to quote Solithan

as far as I know... FD is pretty weird in how it gets rid of agro. I can be down for 2 seconds and have very low agro, or I can be down until my dots have run there course.. stand up and pull agro from my tank(group scenario, crappy tanks , no fail messages)

[Vivamort]

I like to stay down at least until the death peace button is ready to use again, or I need to reapply a dot. That way I can instantly FD again if needed.

[Knutplate]

It really has less to do with FD than it does the status of the mob imo.

Certain conditions can cause the FD to be delayed (or seemingly not applied at all.)

Things like stun seems to cause the mob to suspend its hate list until it awakens. If you are at the top of the hatelist and the mob is stunned and you FD and stand before mob is awakened then you will probably still be on top of the hatelist.

If you stay feigned through the point where mob wakes, then youre usually safe to stand.

Scripts sometimes have this effect as well, as do casting mobs, and sometimes even mezzed mobs.

I cant really explain why. I tend to only notice the circumstances involved with a wonky fd.

How many times have you been summoned out of a successful fd? Probably plenty. Im willing to bet that every single one of those summons occured when there was a transition in the mobs status. (resets, script resets, etc.)

The problem is how to pinpoint it. Its not always reproducible.

[jarlax]

I have all aa's maxxed and i will tell you that SCS DOES make a substantial diffrence..

Me and a mage duo a lot I can say that with FD the mage pet can hold aggro off me and i can burn mob doen if i FD a shit load. FD will drop you to the bottom of the aggro list " untill " your 8 or whatever dots tick again. Typically if you are casting the " ability" while your in spell cooldown your dots will tick at that moment ...Why ? your dot ticks on all on the same timer to " hit " the mob at the same time from the 1st spell you cast. Just so happens that you cast that spell and cooldown hits. So all dots should tick during cooldown if your chain castinf or every 6 seconds from the first you cast.

If you can cast 3 like me say cast dread pyre then click dagger of death then cast Ashengate pyre it is possible to have 3 tick at once in the first tick. due to the " tick timer" i will call it.

When you FD if you HAVE aggro then FD and get up ...BEFORE your dots tick again your not doing any good...if your doing so much DPS and dont think we dont do a shit load ...start a parse once with dots ON the mob...I did a few times ...yea try 3800 4k dps without the ramp up time of casting all that shit.

just do this man ....dots away right ...you get summoned ect shit hits the fan ect FD...watch your chat you see them tick THEN STAND... sould solve your problem.. either that oir the tank aint taunting