Blood Tithe/Greather Blood Tithe

[spoonr79]

Ok, so I'm chunking away in Katta, grinding AAs & faction.

I bought 3 levels of Blood Tithe (7/7/7/?/?/?) but then to buy any more requires level 76 (SoF).

I was able to skip down the Greather Blood Tithe and buy the first 3 levels (5/5/5/?/?/?) but then I need level 78 (SoF) to progress further.

This seems confusing to me. Why can't we consolidate these AAs into a single line, since they're really just an extension of the same thing? The different lines were expanded for different expansions, I suppose, and now it just seems clunky to me. Can we have this tidied up a bit?

[Siluuael]

They are separate lines because:
1) other DoT classes (e.g. shaman) get Blood Tithe and not Greater Blood Tithe; and,
2) they give different benefits (+1% vs +2% to dot crit rate)

[Nizumzen]

Does anyone know what percentage chance a necro has with max crit DoT AAs to crit? I've stopped doing crit DoT AAs after getting Affliction mastery to work on Willful Death (more use long term imo without you die to casters too much) and am just wondering if I should max it out again when I finish with willful death or whether I should just grind out the levels.

Edit : Bah, didn't realise it was an oldish thread.

[encephalitis]

Does anyone know what percentage chance a necro has with max crit DoT AAs to crit? I've stopped doing crit DoT AAs after getting Affliction mastery to work on Willful Death (more use long term imo without you die to casters too much) and am just wondering if I should max it out again when I finish with willful death or whether I should just grind out the levels.

Edit : Bah, didn't realise it was an oldish thread.

Well, to each his (or her) own, but conventional wisdom around here seems to conclude that anything/everything that improves your DoT crit chances is by-in-far superior to any other aa's (save only for run 5 and death peace 2, which are must-buys and probably equal in importance to DoT Crit & Go_M aas).

[Nizumzen]

Well, to each his (or her) own, but conventional wisdom around here seems to conclude that anything/everything that improves your DoT crit chances is by-in-far superior to any other aa's (save only for run 5 and death peace 2, which are must-buys and probably equal in importance to DoT Crit & Go_M aas).

Crit DoT AAs are useless if you die because a caster broke your FD while you were splitting, therefore willful death > crit DoT AAs imo.

[flubuk]

True,

But you cast dots every single second you play

every mob
every raid
every solo
every group
every quest

how often do you split casters?

Having said that, yes willfull death *is* nice :)

I'd still max dot crits first, no question though.

[solithan]

To get to the question at hand.... are we at 100% yet? I could be completely wrong but I thought we were.

[flubuk]

not even close, think a maxxed necro runs about 40 odd %.

plus 4/8/12% (or whatever it is) for epic 1.5/2/2.5

I'll work it out exaclty when i get home

[Ultulus]

including DoN, in AAs I think we are at around 37%. toss in a 1.5, you are at 41%, toss in a 2.0 you are at 45%, and a 2.5 would put you at 47%. OOW Robe clicks and the like will further that for a bit, but *shrug*. Most are probably in the 42-47% range the majority of the time.

(numbers come from Drazz's master list of AAs.)

[solithan]

Lord, dont know why the hell I said 100% I meant 50%.
42-47 isn't bad I supose. Sort of seems like about half the time we crit. Would be nice if every tick was a crit though :D

[encephalitis]

Crit DoT AAs are useless if you die because a caster broke your FD while you were splitting, therefore willful death > crit DoT AAs imo.

What percentage of your career as a necro is spent splitting casters? Now, compare that to the percentage of your career spent casting DoTs.

I mean, by your logic, after Willful Death one should max all defensive AAs before ever worrying about offensive AAs.

As I said, to each his (or her) own, but if you came here expecting validation for your "theory", you probably won't find it. :)

[Nizumzen]

As I said, to each his (or her) own, but if you came here expecting validation for your "theory", you probably won't find it. :)

It isn't a theory and no I don't need anyone to validate it for me thank you :).

[Verlassen]

Dot crits help you kill faster, each and every time you kill. The higher your dot crit %, the faster your kill rate, the faster your xp gain, the more aa you make in less time. It speeds up the whole process. I have kited with individuals before that for whatever reason do not have crit aas done, have equivalent or better gear, including foci, and I can tell you the difference is very significant.

That said, willful death is a very handy aa. It has saved my blue elven arse more times than I can count. It does not, however, factor into every single pull I make and/or mob I dot in any situation as dot crits do. If you're currently working willful death, I'd make a call as to where you are at in the line (i.e., close to done or just getting started) and finish dot crits at the earliest reasonable opportunity.

Ultulus is right on the money as far as I know on the crit %. Iirc I'm in the upper 30s or lower 40s with all aa and 1.5.

[encephalitis]

It isn't a theory and no I don't need anyone to validate it for me thank you :).

Oh, ok. Well perhaps I misspoke.


What I meant was: Your logic is wrong.


Thanks for letting me off the hook for validating you. That was getting in the way of being honest.

[Nizumzen]

Dot crits help you kill faster, each and every time you kill. The higher your dot crit %, the faster your kill rate, the faster your xp gain, the more aa you make in less time. It speeds up the whole process. I have kited with individuals before that for whatever reason do not have crit aas done, have equivalent or better gear, including foci, and I can tell you the difference is very significant.

That said, willful death is a very handy aa. It has saved my blue elven arse more times than I can count. It does not, however, factor into every single pull I make and/or mob I dot in any situation as dot crits do. If you're currently working willful death, I'd make a call as to where you are at in the line (i.e., close to done or just getting started) and finish dot crits at the earliest reasonable opportunity.

Ultulus is right on the money as far as I know on the crit %. Iirc I'm in the upper 30s or lower 40s with all aa and 1.5.

While this is very true (and I do have some of my crit DoT AAs - just missing Blood Tithe and Greater Blood Tithe) when I'm pulling (and I do often) there are some camps I just can't do without dying three or four times because of FD breaking. In a group this is bad and reflects badly on my pulling ability. Whether that is deserved or not is a matter for debate.

Yes crit DoTs are good, I never claimed otherwise but I believe that in the longer run the amount of deaths I will inevitably avoid with willful death will make up for it.


What I meant was: Your logic is wrong.

Explain.

[Ultulus]

While this is very true (and I do have some of my crit DoT AAs - just missing Blood Tithe and Greater Blood Tithe) when I'm pulling (and I do often) there are some camps I just can't do without dying three or four times because of FD breaking. In a group this is bad and reflects badly on my pulling ability. Whether that is deserved or not is a matter for debate.

Yes crit DoTs are good, I never claimed otherwise but I believe that in the longer run the amount of deaths I will inevitably avoid with willful death will make up for it.



Explain.

I still don't have willful death myself. I die probably 3-5 times a month when playing 4-6 hours a day and raiding 3 nights a week.

That said, if you are grouping constantly in a zone where you need the willful death to pull, go for it. I just wouldn't have brought it up. Because probably 90% of the necros here are in the max dot crits asap school of thought.

[Finnigan]

Nizumzen, you sound like one of the elusive "Group Necro's." Your advice is sound for folks AA'ing towards the pulling role it sounds like you fill, vice all of us solo agro kiters looking to max our DPS/efficiency on non-summoning/non-casting/snareable MOBs.

(Although I do have Willful Death maxed too)

[Darkeeyes]

I'm interested in where you are splitting / pulling these mobs at to have that number of casters. What LVL, Gear etc. rather then debate the pro's and con's of these two AA lines.
The only place I can remember ever having this problem was TSS down in the root caves camping the helm mold and having them constantly casting root on me and breaking FD before I had WD. The close quarters there made it hard to stand and re-fd or wait until the caster had cast then fd. Just curious where you are spliiting is all.

Darkeeyes

[Siluuael]

This is exactly why I used to have mostly resist augs in my gear from levels 55-70ish, back when I mostly soloed, there was no willful death and group gear resists weren't insanely high.

Quick gear note: Your magelo sig shows 16 avoidance. If you are an active pulling necro, you need to get this number much, much higher.

[encephalitis]

While this is very true (and I do have some of my crit DoT AAs - just missing Blood Tithe and Greater Blood Tithe) when I'm pulling (and I do often) there are some camps I just can't do without dying three or four times because of FD breaking. In a group this is bad and reflects badly on my pulling ability. Whether that is deserved or not is a matter for debate.

Yes crit DoTs are good, I never claimed otherwise but I believe that in the longer run the amount of deaths I will inevitably avoid with willful death will make up for it.



Explain.

As others have said, if you pull a lot, sure WD is probably a safe bet to max. I just wouldn't put it above DoT crits.

I would rather spend my points first and foremost on aa's that will help me in everything I do (and will quicken my aa gain rate). If you're dying repeatedly to a particular camp, I would proffer that you're doing it wrong and/or someone here might have tips for you.

[Ultulus]

yeah, plus.. who needs to split casters anyhow ;-). they are wuss.

[scrat]

I'm thinking a lot of us after getting wilful death maxed, aren't actually concious we even have the aa working for us. Maxed, it's how the game makes sense, how it's supposed to be. We forget how bloody broken & awful trying to split anything that cast anything was. Until reading this thread I certainly forgot.

And a metric ton of content now casts stuff at range, even though they aren't casters per se. Even the sof casters are doing 6+kdps melee on silk. Pretty much every mob in every zone from Hills of Shade / Beza on upwards 'can' cast something, be it a ranged proc function or what. And the newer content being mostly corruption based - I wouldn't trade my wilful death away for a couple more ranks of blood tithe, that's for sure.

[Nizumzen]

If you're dying repeatedly to a particular camp, I would proffer that you're doing it wrong and/or someone here might have tips for you.

Unlikely. There is no way to pull a camp correctly if you get hit by a caster which breaks your FD and mobs one round you. Splat your dead before you have time to stand up and run away / recast FD (and yes I do have both ranks of death peace).

A good example is the choppers (little helicopter mobs) in Fortress Mechanotus that occasionally cast a little stun, if you are unlucky it will land just as you have FD'd, break your FD and you'll have 2+ 1.5k plus hitters beating on you before you can stand up.

The fact my gear sucks does not help but there is little I can do about that at the moment as I am flat broke :).

[encephalitis]

Ok, fair enough. I probably am underestimating the benefits of having it maxed as well.

I guess it really doesn't matter much anyways, since maxing WD is what, 50aas?

That's easily done in even a slow week if you play more than an hour a day and have LotD vet reward.

Good points all-around.

[solithan]

I love the AA line dont get me wrong but there are other places and other mobs that dont cast and plenty of ways to avoid it if they do. However the area you've chosen is a bit rough from the sounds of it. There are a few "tricks" out there that might help you, but sounds like you've got the answer with willful death.

So, this group thing. Is it a regular thing or do you actually somehow manage to talk people into letting you in the group? What's your tag line? I only ask because I find most folks dont want necro in group. Even though we "can" pull, well pull way to slow for most groups.

[Verlassen]

...when I'm pulling (and I do often) there are some camps I just can't do without dying three or four times because of FD breaking. In a group this is bad...

That being your situation, I can see where you're coming from. Ultimately your specific situation and play style dictate what aa are most valuable when, for the most part. In a group puller situation with mobs dying quickly, the dot crit dps isn't going to be as much of a factor as getting the mob and yourself safely back to camp. Solo, I wouldn't trade my crits for much anything, but then I solo so much I forget what other toons look like sometimes. :p

[Ultulus]

Meh, fort mech you can just pull 3-4 and them have the group pull them off 1 at a time while you kite the other 3.. =P that way you are actually doing something anyway ;-)

[GnekroeGnomicon]

that way you are actually doing something anyway ;-) o.O

[Ultulus]

o.O

too soon?