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  • foobar
    replied
    Originally posted by [email protected]
    DoTs Improvements

    Over the past few months, we've been reviewing the way DoTs work and how we would like to improve them going forward. As most of you know, there's a limited number of debuff slots available on any given NPC, which conflicts with DoT classes wanting to layer as many spells as possible on any given NPC in order to maximize damage. This layering has contributed to a lot of problems over the years; most notably, it takes a lot of spell slots away from players who want to maximize DoT damage, and it uses up many of the limited debuff slots available on raid targets.
    Funny how they could just redesign and increase buff slots to keep the majority happy. Easier to change some spells and core game play for a class i guess.

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  • Azorin
    replied
    Any significant increase in Base damage for necros (as they did for BSTs), and they will be nerfing quickly. We multiply it too well on Burns, it will be like mana burn was never nerfed.
    I agree.

    With Feb nerfs, necro has lost approx 40% of raid DPS on burns just from GOTR nerf. We now have to use half our time triggering GOTR with a DD spell. Mana burn was way OP so not going to say it was a true loss in DPS even though other classes make use of it now. I think we can expect an ~20% increase in base damage for our DoT spell lines when they are combined. This should put us below our current nerfed DPS since we can currently cast our better spells using older versions of some spell lines.


    My Spell Lines and versions I use for RAID/Root-DoT:

    Pyre of Jorobb 30s (3849 base)
    - Pyre of Marnek 30s (3325 base)
    - Pyre of Hazarak 30s (2742 base)
    -- ~14-18% difference in base damage

    Ignite Synapse 30s (3314 base + 424)
    - Ignite Thoughts 30s (2863 base + 367)
    - Ignite Potential 30s (2361 base + 274)
    -- ~14-18% difference in base damage

    Glistenwing Venom 42s (2800 base)
    - Binaesa Venom 42s (2419 base)
    -- ~14% difference in base damage

    Annihilation 30s (2742 base)
    - Termination (2487 base)
    -- ~10% difference in base damage

    Plexipharia's Pallid Haze 42s (2367 base)
    - Halstor's Pallid Haze 42s (2045 base)
    -- ~14% difference in base damage

    Scourge of Fates 42s (2347 base or 3685 undead) <---> Dichotomic Paroxysm: 1 min. reuse, not focused, same timer?

    Smouldering Shadow 1m 24s (2162 base) - some necros stack older versions, I don't.

    Mortiferous Wounds 1m 36s (1969 base) - bonus dot on fade
    - Pernicious Wounds 1m 36s (1786 base) - bonus dot on fade.
    - Necrotizing Wounds 1m 36s (1473 base) - bonus dot on fade.
    -- ~10-18% difference in base damage

    Chaotic Liquefication (Scent of Nightfall + 1 or 2 dots) - I don't stack older versions.
    -- Pyre of the Lost 54s (2070 base)
    -- Liquifaction 54s (1787 base)

    Dark Leech 42s (1920 base)

    Livianus' Decay 1m 24s (1555 base)
    - Wuran's Decay 1m 24s (1402 base)
    -- ~10% difference in base damage

    Average change in base damage between older versions is 10-18%. When we lose those older spells, we would need an estimated increase of 82-90% (even higher for lines we use more than one previous version) in the parent spell's base damage to reach our current dps level. This is NOT taking in consideration AA and other focus effects. I would think we can expect at most a 20-35% increase in the parent spell base damage. We will go from ~20 DoTs to about 12 and with less total base damage (~40% fewer DoTs).

    Looks very messy to sort this all out in a balanced way. Necros will need Swift DoTs unlocked, made twin castable, allow use of all 5 swift spells, and remove raid restriction to help fill the time. Reduce Wounds spell duration to 42-54s would also help.
    Last edited by Azorin; 03-12-2016, 05:28 PM.

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  • Vivamort
    replied
    Any significant increase in Base damage for necros (as they did for BSTs), and they will be nerfing quickly. We multiply it too well on Burns, it will be like mana burn was never nerfed.

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  • Azorin
    replied
    DoT Nerfs ( aka &quot;improvements&quot

    The March patch is scheduled for Wednesday, March 16, 2016 (the day of EverQuest’s 17th Anniversary!). Here are some highlights on what players can expect from this patch:

    DoTs Improvements

    Over the past few months, we've been reviewing the way DoTs work and how we would like to improve them going forward. As most of you know, there's a limited number of debuff slots available on any given NPC, which conflicts with DoT classes wanting to layer as many spells as possible on any given NPC in order to maximize damage. This layering has contributed to a lot of problems over the years; most notably, it takes a lot of spell slots away from players who want to maximize DoT damage, and it uses up many of the limited debuff slots available on raid targets.

    In order to improve the way this works, we're starting this process with Beastlords, but we're planning to continue with it through all classes that use DoTs regularly. Here's what we did for Beastlords:

    We went back to the first DoT in any given line, and doubled it (or more). This step may not happen for every class, but
    Anyhow looks like necros can look forward to even more nerfs with the future "improvements" to DoTs. Some of our DoT spell lines are complete crap and are never cast so we will lose even more dps by not having a better option. The new combined DoTs might be upgraded a bit, but likely not by much. I can see necro class being unplayable after this "fix" over the next few months.

    Spell Lines (# of previous versions we use)

    Fast DoTs [not including Swifts]: <= 30s Duration [4 spells max. after changes]

    Pyre of Jorobb: 3849 / tick (we use last 3-4 versions) 30s
    Ignite Synapsis: 3314(+424) / tick (last 2 versions) 30s
    Annihilation: 2742 / tick (last 2 versions) 30s
    Dichotomic Paroxysm: 1 min. reuse, not focused


    Mid-Range DoTs: 42-54s Duration [5 spells max. after changes, 4 if using Chaotic]

    Glistenwing Venom: 2800 / tick (last 2-3 versions) 42s
    Plexiphara's Pallid Haze: 2367 / tick (last 2-3 versions) 42s
    Dark Leech: 1920 / tick (only 1 version, not upgraded last 2 expansions) 42s
    Liquifaction: 1787 / tick (1-3 versions, chaotic). 54s
    Pyre of the Lost: 2070 / tick (1-2 versions, chaotic). 54s
    -- Chaotic Liquifaction can cast both Liquifaction & Pyre of the Lost. Many necros use this over the single spells.
    Scourge of Fates: 2464 (3868 undead)/tick 42s (timer issue with Dich. Para.? - spell line has no upgraded version)
    Plexipharia's Grasp: 1976/tick (6 sec. cast time makes this is unusable) 42s


    Long DoTs: 1+ Min Duration [3 spells max. after changes]

    Smouldering Shadow: 2162 / tick (1-2 versions) 1m 24s
    Livianus' Decay: 1555 / tick (2 versions) 1m 24s
    Mortiferous Wounds: 1969 / tick (1-3 versions) 1m 36s
    Grip of Jabaum: 1719 / tick (not cast, conflicts with other class debuffs). 1m
    Splirt: crap/tick (not cast, not useful, too long, abandoned spell line) 2m


    So it looks like if we cast all useful DoTs (raid or root dot) it will take up 11 spell gems. This leaves 1 gem for a DD for twin cast. No more spell swapping for more DoTs. On paper it looks ok but leaves us with very little to do other than nuke while waiting for DoTs to expire. I will feel like a shaman without heals, a crappy pet and bored with a dumbed down character. I guess we can drop 1 of the 11 DoTs for Pet Swarm or add more weak DD spells and play more like a mage. As a bonus, I am sure all your fun DoT clickies will also have conflicts with parent spells. Likely changes will make most clicky DoT dps useless and spoil the fun of getting them.

    On raids where no fire, poison, etc can be cast, necros will be even more limited after spell lines are combined. GOTR nerf, weaker pets, pet swarm spell line nerf, and now necros can look forward to "DoT improvements." Not sure there will be much reason to play necro when all is said and done. We will have to wait and see. I will not be buying new expansion or subbing till I see how this pans out.
    Last edited by Azorin; 03-12-2016, 02:36 PM.

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  • Azorin
    replied
    It has been a week+ now since we have been "bent over the barrel." For necros currently still trying to raid, how are your burns/dps? What adjustments have you made? or have you all thrown in the towel? I have not heard much on any forums about the necro super nerfs. Most people are talking about the Knight upgrade to mitigation it looks. Too me it looks like necros are in hiding, and for good reason. I was hoping to see a fight to get Flesh to Poison returned to original purpose.

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  • mordeith
    replied
    I was still able to molo High Bokon Cleret yesterday but it is significantly harder.

    One of the things i have really enjoyed about the necro has been that i can go into a HA by myself and progress here and there between long AFK breaks.
    (I got stuff to do in RL you know)

    Daybreak seems to want to push us towards the old days of grouping, Which was very enjoyable, but I am not a 17 year old kid anymore. I got life stuff going on and if i make some time for EQ i dont want to spend half of it putting a group together like the old days.

    More and more i see people leaving EQ. If the plan is to phase it out it is working. However Im not going to EQII. Once EQ is done i am done with on line games. If they want to keep EQ going maybe they should raise the other classes to a more solo/molo of current content mobs ability rather than nerfe the folks who choose that play style.

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  • foobar
    replied
    The changes to Gift of Deathly Resolve makes me think the one responsible have no idea how the raiding necro is played. They should have left Gift alone and just nerfed the mana burn thing. I havent felt like raiding after patch but tested some on a dummy with a horrible result. If we had anything close to burst dps that is totally gone now. How much are you guys losing, %-age not numbers?

    I can live with the swarm pet linkage nerf but they should compensate the dps loss with a more powerful swarm pet or unlink swift dots. Necro grp dps was low before and this isnt helping.

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  • Azorin
    replied
    Super Necro Nerf Day

    The Big Necro Nerf Day has arrived.

    Looks like I have to make all new hot buttons and spell lineups to deal with nerfs.

    OLD Spell Lineup (Group)

    1. Call Skeleton Mob (swarm pets)
    2. Swift (fire) (12sec dot)
    3. Swift (disease) (12sec dot)
    4. Swift (lifedraw) - (12sec self lifetap dot)
    5. Call Skeleton Throng (swarm pets#2, nerfed) - is now Liquefying Venin (poison nuke)
    6. Combust Bones (undead nuke, mostly to slow mobs)
    7. Flesh to Poison - no more twin cast trigger but at least it still nukes
    8. Imbue Ally (pet lifetap buff)
    9. Cascading Doomshield (pet rune/heal)
    10. Mind extraction - (grp mana tap dot)
    11. Dark Leech (group life tap dot)
    12. Soulrend

    (Molo/Low DPS Group) - Non-Swift Spell Set
    2. Pyre of Jorobb 30s
    3. Pyre of Marnek 30s
    4. Ignite Synapse 30s
    5. Impose for Blood

    (Pet Tanking)
    10. Icy Mending


    Raid line up likely only to change with switching out FTP with a fast reuse nuke/tap for twin-casting. Start by loading spell set long: see below, cast 11-8), (load normal set, cast: 11-1), (load raid set 2: cast 11-8), reload set 1, repeat...

    New Spell Lineup (RAID/Root-DoT)
    1. Termination
    2. Annihilation 30s
    3. Pyre of Hazarak 30s
    4. Ignite Thoughts 30s
    5. Ignite Synapse 30s
    6. Pyre of Marnek 30s
    7. Pyre of Jorobb 30s
    8. Scourge of Fates 42s
    9. Glistenwing Venom 42s
    10. Smoldering Shadow 1m 24s
    11. Chaotic Liquefication (Scent of Nightfall + 1-2 dots)
    12. Flesh to Poison is now Impose for Blood - twin-cast trigger or Chaotic Power if Hand of Death effect is down.
    --- this becomes Root / DoT set by replacing gem 12 with Root spell.

    --- I swap 4 spells out at a time with my other 2 raid spell sets:

    I start with this (raid spell set: long dots, order of casting 10-8) vs long fights:

    8. Necrotizing Wounds 1m 36s
    9. Pernicious Wounds 1m 36s
    10. Mortiferious Wounds 1m 36s
    11. Flesh to Poison - no more twin cast trigger but at least it still nukes (precast)

    --- (raid spell set 2: order of casting 11-8) --- after all the above spells are cast.
    8. Dark leech (grp life tap dot) 42s
    9. Ignite Potential
    10. Plexipharia's Pallid Haze 42s
    11. Binaesa Venom 42s

    I used to have Swarm pets in raid spell sets but don't think I will load one now as a fast reuse nuke is needed for twin-casting.

    As for the Burn dot casting hot buttons I am not sure how I want to handle having to nuke to trigger twin cast before each dot. Alot of clicking there!
    Last edited by Azorin; 02-21-2016, 03:10 AM.

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  • Siddar
    replied
    Seems they're intentionally trying to sink the game. The GoDR change is disgusting I have no desire to raid under these conditions. The swarm changes put necro's in a crisis state in regards to grouping.

    Under powered pet for solo, molo.
    Shit group ability.
    Garbage class mechanics on raids.

    Complete fuckery going on here. Dev's cant honestly think people will keep paying money for this level of fuckery.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tenafter
    replied
    The whole game is a sinking ship at this point, so I'm jumping off. I can't say it hasn't been fun the last 12 years, but I can't support DBG and their baseless adjustments. Anyways, best of luck for those sticking around and have fun while it lasts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vivamort
    replied
    Buh-bye Necro raid parses.

    Buh-bye fast group DPS potential.

    Buh-bye awesome Named/hard-hitting-summoning-unsnareable mob soloing ability.


    I guess Epic and linking spell lines so we can't use old spells is next. I really don't think they understand how necromancers work. They must think they are too hard to play so just listen to hater's advice on how to nerf them.

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  • Xislaben
    started a topic so, changes on test...

    so, changes on test...



    linky


    - Necromancer - The Call Skeleton line of spells have been placed on a shared recast timer. Corrected messaging errors in some early ranks of the line.

    - Necromancer - Adjusted the the minimum mana focus restriction on Gift of Deathly Resolve and Deathly Resolve from 10 to 100 points.

    - Wizard - Corrected an implementation error with ranks 13-16 of Mana Burn that allowed the debuff to increase the damage of non-instant duration spells.
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